[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
i doubt it.

You are 100% mistaken. That is a FACT

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
You are 100% mistaken. That is a FACT

proof?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
proof?

Sure, I'll see if I can dig up that particular thread. If anybody else happens to have it bookmarked, please feel free to post a link.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by vmarks:
But hey, thanks for focusing on what really offended you- the misuse of your religion's name by posters here, not the misuse of it by terrorists, not the fact that one such adherent was caught trying to get into the hospital disguised as a nurse to continue sending children to their deaths.

I would have thought that any fool could see that the kidnapping of innocent women and children would not be condoned by a major world religion.

Would I be wrong in assuming that?

Islam is not some sort of secret society - anyone can freely look up the relevant religious laws and regulations either online or the old-fashioned way. Is this not the more logical path to enlightenment over listening to some lunatic with a gun, holding hostages?


You, however, are a different issue. By all accounts you appear to be an educated man yet you choose infuse the content of your posts with inflammatory garbage with no obvious purpose other than to propagate your own anti-Islamic agenda. The article you linked contained no mention of 'Jihadis' or even 'Islam' or 'Muslims' - yet - you saw fit to through the 'Jihadi' word anyway, why is that?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Islam is also a legal status, since islamists have more legal rights than non-islamists in certain places. Islam is discriminatory at its core.

ANY religion that proclaims exclusivity is "discriminatory at its core", if you want to go there. Including your own, unless you're Buddhist or Shinto.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Tell me eklipse are "true" muslims perfect? Do they never go against the teachings? I find that hard to believe that they don't. In your explanation, NO muslims would exist.

Of course it would be difficult to find 'Teh Perfect Muslim�' - but we are talking about rather different scales of infraction against Islam.

Missing one prayer out of five a day (for example) is hardly in the same league as kidnapping a school full of innocent, men, women and children, you follow?

[PacHead]

There's many, many examples on this forum, but here is the first one I found, that proves without a doubt that there are muslim terrorist supporters on this forum. I could dig up many more, but I'm not going to waste my time in stating the obvious.


Millenium,
the reason why noone in the islamic world can say that Hamas are false muslims leading a false jihad is because they are not false muslims and not leading a false jihad.

What they are doing is strictly what the Quran/Islam expects from them:


signed: Taliesen


There you have it, I have proven my statement without a doubt, and you were wrong.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by dcolton:
All people choose how they behave.

I don't disagree - I was just pointing out how your 'black person' analogy was flawed.

Of course a person chooses how they behave, but a person can't change their color at will - (and no, Michael Jackson doesn't count. )

[dcolton]

Originally posted by eklipse:
I don't disagree - I was just pointing out how your 'black person' analogy was flawed.

Of course a person chooses how they behave, but a person can't change their color at will - (and no, Michael Jackson doesn't count. )

And I thought you didn't have a sense of humor

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by vmarks:
But hey, thanks for focusing on what really offended you- the misuse of your religion's name by posters here, not the misuse of it by terrorists, not the fact that one such adherent was caught trying to get into the hospital disguised as a nurse to continue sending children to their deaths.

Oh just STFU. Do you know how much ****ing heart ache Muslims across the world are feeling today after seeing such disgusting events occurring in that school? No you have no ****ing idea because you're too wound up in your stupid, distorted, bigoted opinion of Islam. You won't stop for one second to take a step back and make a distinction between the barbaric acts committed by these sorry excuses for human beings, who have absolutely no relation to Islam and the real, peaceful Muslims that ARE the majority. Those that committed today's acts will burn in hell for eternity and so they ****ing well should. YOU in particular know what the true teachings of Islam are and YOU KNOW that these terrorist's actions have nothing to do with Islam yet you come in here and spout off all this BS. For what exactly? What does it achieve? **** all except feeding more ignorance to the other poor ignorant fools here that know nothing about Islam and don't WANT to edcuate themselves just to see whether these terrorists really are following Islamic teachings.

Are you seriously ****ing telling ME to go down there to Russia or wherever the hell else these bastards exist and tell them myself that they shouldn't be doing this? Are you really serious? You're telling ME that I am responsible for their actions and I must do something about it? You really are out of your mind. There is no reason why I should have to accept responsibility for such disgusting acts just because I am a Muslim. And I damn sure as hell won't.

Does MY anger come through YOUR screen?

And to the other ignorant ****wits who've posted similar BS in this thread, you either remain as ignorant as you are or you make the effort to learn about the Islamic religion and decide for yourself whether such acts as we've seen are justifiable under Islam. It doesn't make one bit of difference to the rest of the worlds peaceful Muslims whether you think Islam is evil. We know what's right from wrong and that's all that counts.

Wallow in your ignorance and that is where you will remain.

[blythe]

Then let's support the application of the simple little test (bury terrorists in pig carcasses) I described above, and see the reaction of the muslim world. Notice that I did not make any statements of what Islam teaches or doesn't. I also acknowledged that many if not most muslims will disavow terrorism. It's just that I believe that despite what is said or professed, there is a lot of sympathy for these terrorists AS FELLOW muslims. If this were not the case, there would hardly be any objection to burying these terrible "non-muslim" terrorists in pig carcasses, would there? These terrorists would be disqualified from being muslims for performing non-Islamic acts, so what would it matter, right?

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
bullsh1t. no muslim i've ever met supports terrorism in any way, shape or form.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by blythe:
Then let's support the application of the simple little test (bury terrorists in pig carcasses) I described above, and see the reaction of the muslim world. Notice that I did not make any statements of what Islam teaches or doesn't. I also acknowledged that many if not most muslims will disavow terrorism. It's just that I believe that despite what is said or professed, there is a lot of sympathy for these terrorists AS FELLOW muslims. If this were not the case, there would hardly be any objection to burying these terrible "non-muslim" terrorists in pig carcasses, would there? These terrorists would be disqualified from being muslims for performing non-Islamic acts, so what would it matter, right?

Exactly. This is why I support burying these terrorist lowlifes in pigskins. Like I wrote, Russia does this already, and the USA should also do it.

[dcolton]

lbk,

It is simple. When a palestinian killer does his deed, muslims cheer. After 9/11, muslims cheered. When Iraqi's defiled the bodies of American's, muslims cheered...

Then they denounced the acts when they saw the cameras...

Then they said these people aren't true muslims...

then they said - but they understand why these muslims resort to killing innocence.

There has to be a point when Islam takes repsonsibility for those who misinterpret the koran. There has to be a point when muslims stand up and fight these supposed non-muslims so peace can have a chance. There has to be a point when muslims realize that killing women, children and innocent men won't win any brownie points in their effort to remove the west from their culture.

There has to be a point where muslims nations take action against Sudan, Osama, Khomeni, Arafat and the rest of these killers.

[blythe]

Excellent point. You never hear muslim society condemn Hamas as anti-Islamic, despite any of their tactics. Instead, they are said to be leading a legitimate jihad against an infidel opressor. It can therefore be inferred that terrorist tactics are legitimate in resisting non-muslim oppression.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PacHead:

Millenium,
the reason why noone in the islamic world can say that Hamas are false muslims leading a false jihad is because they are not false muslims and not leading a false jihad.

What they are doing is strictly what the Quran/Islam expects from them:


signed: Taliesen

QUOTE]

[vmarks]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Oh just STFU. Do you know how much ****ing heart ache Muslims across the world are feeling today after seeing such disgusting events occurring in that school? No you have no ****ing idea because you're too wound up in your stupid, distorted, bigoted opinion of Islam. You won't stop for one second to take a step back and make a distinction between the barbaric acts committed by these sorry excuses for human beings, who have absolutely no relation to Islam and the real, peaceful Muslims that ARE the majority. Those that committed today's acts will burn in hell for eternity and so they ****ing well should. YOU in particular know what the true teachings of Islam are and YOU KNOW that these terrorist's actions have nothing to do with Islam yet you come in here and spout off all this BS. For what exactly? What does it achieve? **** all except feeding more ignorance to the other poor ignorant fools here that know nothing about Islam and don't WANT to edcuate themselves just to see whether these terrorists really are following Islamic teachings.

Are you seriously ****ing telling ME to go down there to Russia or wherever the hell else these bastards exist and tell them myself that they shouldn't be doing this? Are you really serious? You're telling ME that I am responsible for their actions and I must do something about it? You really are out of your mind. There is no reason why I should have to accept responsibility for such disgusting acts just because I am a Muslim. And I damn sure as hell won't.

Does MY anger come through YOUR screen?

And to the other ignorant ****wits who've posted similar BS in this thread, you either remain as ignorant as you are or you make the effort to learn about the Islamic religion and decide for yourself whether such acts as we've seen are justifiable under Islam. It doesn't make one bit of difference to the rest of the worlds peaceful Muslims whether you think Islam is evil. We know what's right from wrong and that's all that counts.

Wallow in your ignorance and that is where you will remain.

You want to talk? Let's talk.

The London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat reported that the extremist Islamic movement Al-Muhajiroun had announced a convention in London, titled "The Choice is in Your Hands: Either You're with the Muslims or with the Infidels," to mark the third anniversary of the September 11 attacks. The organization had planned a similar anniversary event a year ago, called "The Magnificent 19 [Suicide Attackers]," but had cancelled it at the last minute. The following is a summary of the report1)

Al-Muhajiroun leader Omar Bakri, a Syrian residing in London, told the paper by phone that the convention would feature Al-Qa'ida "surprises," with the screening of a never-before-shown video. He said that the convention will focus on "the anniversary of the division of the world into two great camps - the camp of faith and the camp of unbelief," and would take place September 11, 2004 from 11 a.m. to 9 p.m.


Bakri added: "On this day, we will talk about the ramifications of these [9/11] operations for Afghanistan and Iraq... We want the world to remember this operation ... that lifted the head of the [Muslim] nation." Bakri called 9/11 "a cry of Jihad against unbelief and oppression," and said that the aim of remembering it is to "revive the commandment of Jihad among the youth of the [Muslim] nation."


Bakri said that the convention will also feature a lecture about the Islamic religious roots of "slaughtering the infidels," that is, beheading foreigners in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, and that there will be films by Al-Qa'ida, the Tawhid and Jihad organization, and the Brigades of the Two Holy Places in the Arabian Peninsula, and that there will also be a film on the most recent operations in Chechnya. He added that one of the speeches, by Abu Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi, known to be Al-Qa'ida's military commander in Iraq, will be translated.


There you have it, jihad is terror committed against non-Muslims. The woman terrorist who I called a jihadi is just that, and I won't apologize if erstwhile legitimate newsmedia wants to tiptoe around that. Even the Mufti of Beslan knows it, or why else would he have made his appeal based on the presumptuous notion that all infants are Muslim?

But wait- it gets even worse:

BESLAN (North Ossetia), September 3 (Itar-Tass) -- “Six hundred and forty-six people, including 227 children, were hospitalized following the terrorist act in Beslan,” sources in the Russian Ministry for Civil Defense and Emergencies and the North Ossetian Health Ministry told Itar-Tass.

“The majority of patients have bullet wounds in the back,” the sources said.

Ante tifthame, ya'anissa?

[itai195]

Latest news says around 200 hostages were killed. God, what a tragedy

[Joshua]

Originally posted by itai195:
Latest news says around 200 hostages were killed. God, what a tragedy

It's up to 322, including 155 children. There's close to 600 still in the hospital, so the death toll will likely rise.

[f1000]

I expect our government to give the Russians all the support they need to punish the people and countries that did this.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by PacHead:
My guess is, this won't end up too well, considering the wackjobs involved.

Unfortunately, it seems like I was correct.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Unfortunately, it seems like I was correct.

were you referring to the russians or the terrorists, or both?

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
proof?

*bump*

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
proof?

Go read some of Talison or whatever his name is posts.

Do a search. Many times he has supported terrorists actions and claimed their victims deserved it.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Of course it would be difficult to find 'Teh Perfect Muslim�' - but we are talking about rather different scales of infraction against Islam.

Missing one prayer out of five a day (for example) is hardly in the same league as kidnapping a school full of innocent, men, women and children, you follow?

Oh I agree with this. But that isn't what you originally said.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Wallow in your ignorance and that is where you will remain.

I'll take your word for it.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by dcolton:
lbk,

It is simple. When a palestinian killer does his deed, muslims cheer. After 9/11, muslims cheered. When Iraqi's defiled the bodies of American's, muslims cheered...

Then they denounced the acts when they saw the cameras...

Then they said these people aren't true muslims...

then they said - but they understand why these muslims resort to killing innocence.

There has to be a point when Islam takes repsonsibility for those who misinterpret the koran. There has to be a point when muslims stand up and fight these supposed non-muslims so peace can have a chance. There has to be a point when muslims realize that killing women, children and innocent men won't win any brownie points in their effort to remove the west from their culture.

There has to be a point where muslims nations take action against Sudan, Osama, Khomeni, Arafat and the rest of these killers.

There is a reason why people are having problems differentiating between the nonviolent muslims and the terrorists because of this.

Like I said, it almost seems like they are waiting to see what "happens" before they choose sides.

And it seems they are almost afraid to speak out publicly.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Go read some of Talison or whatever his name is posts.

Do a search. Many times he has supported terrorists actions and claimed their victims deserved it.

I've already Proven Talisiens or whatever his name is, love for the terrorists in another post yesterday, when somebody else was doubting this.

Can't we just make it a sticky or something ?

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
There is a reason why people are having problems differentiating between the nonviolent muslims and the terrorists because of this.

Like I said, it almost seems like they are waiting to see what "happens" before they choose sides.

And it seems they are almost afraid to speak out publicly.

nicely put.

[Zimphire]

There are Muslims that are in-between as well. They aren't sure what is going on.

On one side they think "These people are doing bad things" and on another side they are thinking "What if what they say is true, this may be the time for Muslims to turn this world around"

That is why I said I think some are waiting to see.

They don't want to be associated with these folks, but at the same time, would secretly love to see a world run by people of their ilk.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
There are Muslims that are in-between as well. They aren't sure what is going on.

On one side they think "These people are doing bad things" and on another side they are thinking "What if what they say is true, this may be the time for Muslims to turn this world around"

That is why I said I think some are waiting to see.

They don't want to be associated with these folks, but at the same time, would secretly love to see a world run by people of their ilk.

This is very true, and this is why I favor techniques which will weed out these people. This is why I am for an escalation in the conflict, so that we will see the true colors of certain people.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by vmarks:
There you have it, jihad is terror committed against non-Muslims.

I think I took you to be more intelligent than you actually are. Either that or you just keep deliberately posting bullsh1t.

First and foremost, contrary to the crap that you've been reading, the term Jihad is predominantly used in the Qur'an to to imply 'striving hard'. It is not a concept that is solely about raising one's sword in battle. A jihad is rarely fought by the sword and rarely involves any kind of violence against non-Muslims. There are strict rules regarding this in the Shar'iah law which I shall mention later.

Qitaal fi Sabeel Allah, which means fighting for God's cause, is just one of the practical implications of Jihad fi Sabeel Allah, which means striving hard in God's cause. I'll give one example of the latter as something I personally have had to face as a female Muslim living in a Western country.

Resisting the pressures and influences brought upon by fashion trends is something many Muslim women in the West have to deal with. It may seem as something quite simple to you but it can at times be very challenging. As a Muslim woman, one has to remember the importance of dressing modestly as ordained in the Qur'an and not be influenced by others around you who may be wearing more revealing clothing. So you see that striving hard for God's cause can be about the most simplest of things.

What you are implying the term Jihad to mean is the killing of 'infidels' using any means whatsoever. However, the implication of this term when seen in the light of the Qu'ran as well as the Prophet's (pbuh) life is incorrect. It is in fact a war declared under specific circumstances and is carried out by an organised Muslim state. It is NOT merely fighting against non-Muslims for whatever reason or in whatever manner.

To touch on just some of the directives relating to Jihad as outlined in the Shari'ah law:

1. It is only a Muslim state (not individuals or groups of individuals), whose aggression against another people, for a just cause, can qualify as 'Jihad'.

2. A Muslim state has been promised God's help and subsequent victory, if it is fighting for a just cause and if its relative power-balance (with its adversary state) is not less than 1:2.

And on some ethical issues regarding Jihad:

1. Jihad is a declared war against another people. Jihad does not cover any covert or hypocritical actions of a Muslim state against another. Thus, Jihad does not cover actions like secretly sponsoring terrorist activities against the adversaries, even if such adversaries are, in the opinion of the Islamic state, guilty of persecuting its citizens or any particular segment of its citizens.

2. A Muslim state cannot carryout Jihad, against an adversary state, in violation of any mutual or international agreements. This ethical condition, according to the Qur'an[9], would remain applicable even if the adversary state is clearly guilty of persecuting its citizens and even if the persecuted Muslims have called upon the Muslim state for help.

3. While in a state of war against another nation, Muslims cannot, under any circumstances, make the non-combatant peoples of that nation (including men, women and children not taking part in the war) a target of their attacks[10].

So you see that Bakri's description of 9/11 as a 'cry of a Jihad against the infidels' is completely and utterly against every rule of Jihad as outlined by the Shari'ah law. Quite frankly, he is talking out of his ass. So once again, you can either take it from the mouth of a so-called Islamic leader, or you can personally read the words of the Qu'ran and decide for yourself. It would appear that you would rather remain ignorant of the truth. Why? because it fits in with your own personal, bigoted agenda against the Muslim people.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
They don't want to be associated with these folks, but at the same time, would secretly love to see a world run by people of their ilk.

I don't understand how you have reached such an opinion. It saddens me that people have such a wild perspective on this.

Muslims have a simple duty in life and that is to live their life in compliance with Allah. No where in Islamic teachings are Muslims instructed to force the world to embrace Islam. The only people who speak of such things are radical extremists such as Bin Laden and other leaders of "Islamic" terrorist networks. They do not speak with any authority and the Qur'an offers no legitimacy to such actions.

Frankly I see such aspirations to be completely impractical. Neither do I, as a Muslim, have any desire to see the world run by 'people of my ilk'. All any Muslim wants to do is live their life in accordance with Allah's teachings - and that does not involve taking over the world by force or any other means!

[Zimphire]

LBK regardless of what the "true" meaning is. These people claim they are doing the "TRUE" will.

The "true" Muslims need to come out in a VERY PUBLIC WAY against these people calling them what they are. FALSE PROPHETS.

For example if someone was teaching non-Catholic teachings, and calling it Catholicism, the Catholic Church would go to the press and denounce these people not just ONCE, but UNTIL EVERYONE KNEW . Until THEY WERE publicly made fools of.

I know Muslims that believe this should be happening too. They are MAD that a BIGGER DEAL isn't being made of it.

There are a few types of "Muslims" I have ran into that have different beliefs on this.

Type One They are trying their best to get the word out about the bad name these false prophets are giving their religion that is so dear to them. They are actively doing their part to try to educate people about the differences. The very fact that these so called Muslims exist sickens them to no end.

Type Two These people don't want to create any wavs. While they know what is going on isn't right, they know what they are doing is. So it's of no concern to them. Usually they are also afraid of the repercussions that would come down on them if they speak out against this radical form of Islam.

Type Three These are your in the closet "false prophet" followers. While they don't practice such ideals, They secretly hope that these militant Muslims succeeded in their plans. They secretly root for these terrorists. Will go even as far as to hint that their victims deserved it. At the same time, act as if they are disgusted with such acts. They are sitting on the fence, just waiting to see which side wins.

Type Four These are the Terrorists. The ones that think the Earth should be a Muslim planet. That anyone that doesn't agree deserves to die just for that reason. They think their whole reason of living on this earth is to purge it of infidels.

To me, type three is just as dangerous as type four.

And the problem is, there are too many type threes that try to act as if they are type twos.

It goes on in Christianity as well. Not just Islam.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
All any Muslim wants to do is live their life in accordance with Allah's teachings - and that does not involve taking over the world by force or any other means!

Some do, and some do not. Hence, the huge support for Osama in the islamic world.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Some do, and some do not. Hence, the huge support for Osama in the islamic world.

And possibly in this pathetic counterculture. Ask the protesters.
Speaking of protesters, remember the SDS guy who said he was going to cause havoc? What happened? Pansy.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
And possibly in this pathetic counterculture. Ask the protesters.
Speaking of protesters, remember the SDS guy who said he was going to cause havoc? What happened? Pansy.

SDS ? Not sure who you mean. Anyhow, most of the loony ones were checked out before hand, so perhaps he got a little visit from some dudes in suits and dark sunglasses.

[Zimphire]

Here is an example of a type 4 Muslim.

London Convention Will Celebrate 9/11

The London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat reported that the extremist Islamic movement Al-Muhajiroun had announced a convention in London, titled "The Choice is in Your Hands: Either You're with the Muslims or with the Infidels," to mark the third anniversary of the September 11 attacks. The organization had planned a similar anniversary event a year ago, called "The Magnificent 19 [Suicide Attackers]," but had cancelled it at the last minute. The following is a summary of the report: [1]

Bakri added: "On this day, we will talk about the ramifications of these [9/11] operations for Afghanistan and Iraq� We want the world to remember this operation � that lifted the head of the [Muslim] nation." Bakri called 9/11 "a cry of Jihad against unbelief and oppression," and said that the aim of remembering it is to "revive the commandment of Jihad among the youth of the [Muslim] nation."

Bakri said that the convention will also feature a lecture about the Islamic religious roots of "slaughtering the infidels," that is, beheading foreigners in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, and that there will be films by Al-Qa'ida, the Tawhid and Jihad organization, and the Brigades of the Two Holy Places in the Arabian Peninsula, and that there will also be a film on the most recent operations in Chechnya. He added that one of the speeches, by Abu Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi, known to be Al-Qa'ida's military commander in Iraq, will be translated.

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD77804

Sickening.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Here is an example of a type 4 Muslim.

London Convention Will Celebrate 9/11

The London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat reported that the extremist Islamic movement Al-Muhajiroun had announced a convention in London, titled "The Choice is in Your Hands: Either You're with the Muslims or with the Infidels," to mark the third anniversary of the September 11 attacks. The organization had planned a similar anniversary event a year ago, called "The Magnificent 19 [Suicide Attackers]," but had cancelled it at the last minute. The following is a summary of the report: [1]

Bakri added: "On this day, we will talk about the ramifications of these [9/11] operations for Afghanistan and Iraq� We want the world to remember this operation � that lifted the head of the [Muslim] nation." Bakri called 9/11 "a cry of Jihad against unbelief and oppression," and said that the aim of remembering it is to "revive the commandment of Jihad among the youth of the [Muslim] nation."

Bakri said that the convention will also feature a lecture about the Islamic religious roots of "slaughtering the infidels," that is, beheading foreigners in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, and that there will be films by Al-Qa'ida, the Tawhid and Jihad organization, and the Brigades of the Two Holy Places in the Arabian Peninsula, and that there will also be a film on the most recent operations in Chechnya. He added that one of the speeches, by Abu Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi, known to be Al-Qa'ida's military commander in Iraq, will be translated.

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD77804

Sickening.

Sickening? Evil. What are these guys? College kids?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Sickening? Evil. What are these guys? College kids?

No.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Zimphire:


Sickening.

Hopefully the British are smart enough to monitor that event. Take pictures and place everybody who attends under constant surveilance. Can't they deport those animals or something ?

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No.

Easily mistaken.

[LoganCharles]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Oh just STFU.

So please elaborate on the goals of these Islamic Terrorists. What's their purpose?

I don't believe you side with their actions but I don't necessarily hear you argue against their cause.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Here is an example of a type 4 Muslim. ....

These Al-Muhajiroun guys are obviously nuts.

They sound like the antithesis of the Bush administration and it's supporters:

...Al-Muhajiroun had announced a convention in London, titled "The Choice is in Your Hands: Either You're with the Muslims or with the Infidels,"...

[eklipse]

Originally posted by LoganCharles:
I don't believe you side with their actions but I don't necessarily hear you argue against their cause.

That's because the cause is often just even if the methodology used to pursue that cause is not.

People often cloud the difference between supporting a cause and supporting a methodology. They are completely separate issues.

[LoganCharles]

Originally posted by eklipse:
That's because the cause is often just even if the methodology used to pursue that cause is not.

People often cloud the difference between supporting a cause and supporting a methodology. They are completely separate issues.

And what cause is that?

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by eklipse:
They sound like the antithesis of the Bush administration and it's supporters:

quote:
...Al-Muhajiroun had announced a convention in London, titled "The Choice is in Your Hands: Either You're with the Muslims or with the Infidels,"

i think you meant "perfect counterpart"...

oh and:

[eklipse]

Originally posted by LoganCharles:
And what cause is that?

Which specific case are you referring to?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Sickening? Evil. What are these guys? College kids?

Nice.

Fear of education would explain your attitude. Do you have problems getting it up, too?

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
LBK regardless of what the "true" meaning is. These people claim they are doing the "TRUE" will.

The "true" Muslims need to come out in a VERY PUBLIC WAY against these people calling them what they are. FALSE PROPHETS.
Again I don't see why the majority of the worlds Muslims have to accept responsibility for the actions of a minority.

It's obvious that no religion condones the murder of civilians. If people who believe otherwise are just sitting in their armchairs waiting to be told what to believe then there really isn't anything that can be done for them. If they see pictures of 'Muslims' celebrating 9/11 for example and immediately believe that Islam condones such a thing, then really they are foolish. The sensible thing to do would be to read up and see if that is really the case. Waiting for someone to tell you it's not is pure laziness.

We all have our own lives to lead. We can't be expected to jump up and go outside to demonstrate something that should be patently obvious anyway, just because people are too lazy to educate themselves. There comes a time when you are responsible for your own learning. You can't go through life waiting for other people to tell you what to think.

If anyone in the Muslim world has any kind of responsibility for speaking out against these terrorists, it's the political leaders. And we have seen that many a time.

Originally posted by Zimphire:
For example if someone was teaching non-Catholic teachings, and calling it Catholicism, the Catholic Church would go to the press and denounce these people not just ONCE, but UNTIL EVERYONE KNEW . Until THEY WERE publicly made fools of.

I don't think you can say that with one hundred per cent certainty.

Regarding your four types, it's possible that such variants exist. But the argument you're basing that analysis on (that such is the case because there are no massive demonstrations) is flawed.

Originally posted by Zimphire:
It goes on in Christianity as well. Not just Islam.

I'm glad you can see that. I'm also glad that you can see that the actions of these terrorists do not follow any line of Islamic teaching.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD77804

Sickening.

And my response to Bakri's assertions are here (vmarks already posted that article).

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
It's obvious that no religion condones the murder of civilians. If people who believe otherwise are just sitting in their armchairs waiting to be told what to believe then there really isn't anything that can be done for them. If they see pictures of 'Muslims' celebrating 9/11 for example and immediately believe that Islam condones such a thing, then really they are foolish. The sensible thing to do would be to read up and see if that is really the case. Waiting for someone to tell you it's not is pure laziness.

I saw Americans on this very board joyously cheer the killing of civilians in Bagdad by illegitimate US military action.

Does this mean that Christianity condones such a thing?