[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson 

Final Draft 6 wouldn't work on Tiger and BC Software gave no update or reasons why. We had buy or upgrade to version 7. If the same happens again I'll flip a lid.

That's pretty impressively bad. Final Draft doesn't seem like something that should break so badly with an OS release. I wonder what caused that.

[Aron Peterson]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That's pretty impressively bad. Final Draft doesn't seem like something that should break so badly with an OS release. I wonder what caused that.

It always crashes on start up. I was a beta tester for FD7 and Tiger. FD6 wouldn't work on beta or Tiger gold. FD7 worked on both (and FD7 was a POS until six months after release and several updates, and it is still Carbon). I'd say BC Software have a very poor development team. I've used FD since version 4 and each upgrade brought the least amount of improvements that could be made to an app.

[Kevin]

Any new GUI news?

[Chuckit]

Nope. There hasn't been for several months. Give it about a month more.

[kilechki]

So... We now have a website reporting that Leo's internal builds now include the "secret features", and that no new developer build will be delivered till WWDC.
Some of the "confirmed" new features would be :
- new, spotlight-based Finder, as already shown in 2006 patents from Apple - ie: iTunes-like data management
- core-animation based UI

MacGeneration - Le renouveau du Finder ? (in french).

Le mystère s'épaissit.

[Kevin]

Don't speak it..

But I hope they let you revert back to the old way.

[TheoCryst]

I have no insider information, and am under no NDA. However, from the sketch at kilechki's link, it looks like the "Browse" feature (1203C) is supplementary to the traditional folder-oriented way of navigating through the finder. If this is the case, then I'm very excited for Leopard all of a sudden.

[Mithras]

That sketch is from a 2005 patent filing. It may have nothing to do with Leopard's actual appearance, but we'll see.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Don't speak it..

"At the end of last week, we revealed to you that the latest builds of Leopard included Leopard's hidden features. In order to avoid leaks, Apple had decided not to put forth new prerelease builds to developers between now and WWDC. According to what our sources have always said, Leopard could include an all-new Finder. This new Finder would be largely based on Spotlight.

If confirmed, this would not really be a surprise. Last year, Apple filed several patents related to the Finder and to Spotlight. One of these showed a Browse element which was present in the left-hand sidebar. This invited the user to navigate in a similar fashion to what is the case currently in iTunes.



While waiting to see whether all this will be confirmed, one will take note of the announcement by Fastforward, who promises that they will soon release Nebo, an alternative to Apple's Finder."

----------

So, according to the site, they claim to have sources saying that this new Finder is coming, and the patent picture appears to be simply to back up what their sources are saying.

[kilechki]

I find it striking to find afterwards how similar and yet radically different the "drawings" included in apple's patterns are compared to the shipping product.
Finder's design will obviously be very different from what shown here, but still, I'm sure we'll think : "of course, how did not we think about this"

[Kevin]

I still want icons on the desktop though!

[WJMoore]

What for? I can't remember the last time I actually clicked on anything on the desktop. In fact I just don't see my desktop. I frequently use the Desktop folder for transient data though, so I see a need for that to be there.

[G0Ducks]

Well, I think I speak for a few million people out there (at least), that the desktop is a popular activity area for icon usage. If apple were to get rid of this, I think I'll switch back to MS... Why? Well, it would be to me probably one of the biggest harbingers of their waning interest in their OS.
Here's hoping!

R

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by G0Ducks 

Well, I think I speak for a few million people out there (at least), that the desktop is a popular activity area for icon usage. If apple were to get rid of this, I think I'll switch back to MS... Why? Well, it would be to me probably one of the biggest harbingers of their waning interest in their OS.
Here's hoping!

R

So if Apple were to make revolutionary UI changes, that would indicate a lack of interest in the OS? More so than Microsoft putting some lipstick on their pig and going, "There, that's what we've been doing the past six years"?

[dn15]

Originally Posted by G0Ducks 

Well, I think I speak for a few million people out there (at least), that the desktop is a popular activity area for icon usage. If apple were to get rid of this, I think I'll switch back to MS... Why? Well, it would be to me probably one of the biggest harbingers of their waning interest in their OS.
Here's hoping!

Personally I would be happy if by default you couldn't store files on the Desktop so it only displays mounted volumes, with an option to enable it for people who really want that.

The Desktop has just become a dumping ground for anything and everything -- downloaded data, aliases to help files (Canon, I'm looking at you, though you do make nice printers), and countless other things. In my work as a Mac tech I've encountered cases where a machine ran slow because it had literally hundreds, even thousands, of files on the Desktop choking the Finder as it worked to redraw all the icons every time one of them was moved.

I say good riddance. Get rid of files on the Desktop. Add a "Downloads" folder for stuff that came from the Internet, and start using your frickin' Documents, Pictures and Music folders people!

[G0Ducks]

Oh for sure! I totally use those folders, however, I use the desktop for my current design project materials. Having EVERYthing (which usually never goes above 50 files or so) on the desktop is very very handy (mousy?).
Basically, what this comes down to is that we need WAY more control as to what icons can be displayed in locations, how big individual or groups of icons are displayed, and last but not least... where icons are placed. More icon control apple! Please!

R

[Simon]

Originally Posted by dn15 

Personally I would be happy if by default you couldn't store files on the Desktop so it only displays mounted volumes...

chmod ugo-w ~/Desktop

[hldan]

Originally Posted by G0Ducks 

Well, I think I speak for a few million people out there (at least), that the desktop is a popular activity area for icon usage. If apple were to get rid of this, I think I'll switch back to MS... Why? Well, it would be to me probably one of the biggest harbingers of their waning interest in their OS.
Here's hoping!

R

If the desktop goes away in Leopard, Instead of staying with Tiger you would switch back to MS Windows? Enjoy your journey back with that idiotic decision. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Let's see, "I don't like Apple's latest version of their OS so I will just go back to Microsoft". Makes sense to nobody.

[G0Ducks]

Yeah. I see your point. Not staying with Tiger would be really dumb decision on my part. However, It is disappointing that Apple's trend away from the desired user experience with regards to its OS.
Their attitude is our way or the highway. OK, so we have desktop images, highlight colors, and label colors... But I don't think I am alone in saying that if apple starts fooling around with something as foundational as having icons where ever you want them... like has been for the last like, well, since the beginning of MacOS, then people are seriously going to pee.

So, if I want to upgrade but have to do it to a potentially iconless desktop, I probably wont. If that trend continues and there are features in the future that both Win and Mac OSs have, I'm afraid I will go where my desires are satisfied. Frankly, that goes for any kind of product... For example, the iPod vs. the Zune. The only thing holding me back right now is the lack of Zune interface for MacOS. The day that happens, I will sell my iPod video and get one. Why? Because I like the features of the Zune better. If the idea that someone should be able to choose where they want to spend their money is something that doesn't jive with you, please don't call me idiotic. Just internalize your name calling please. Thanks.

R

Originally Posted by hldan 

If the desktop goes away in Leopard, Instead of staying with Tiger you would switch back to MS Windows? Enjoy your journey back with that idiotic decision. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Let's see, "I don't like Apple's latest version of their OS so I will just go back to Microsoft". Makes sense to nobody.

[voodoo]

The Desktop is very useful. It would be dumb to disable it. People can choose whether to use it or not.

V

[monkeybrain]

Why's everyone getting worked up about Apple removing the desktop? There's been no rumour about that and Apple knows it would be unpopular, they tried it with the Public Beta, remember?

[hldan]

Originally Posted by G0Ducks 

Yeah. I see your point. Not staying with Tiger would be really dumb decision on my part. However, It is disappointing that Apple's trend away from the desired user experience with regards to its OS.
Their attitude is our way or the highway. OK, so we have desktop images, highlight colors, and label colors... But I don't think I am alone in saying that if apple starts fooling around with something as foundational as having icons where ever you want them... like has been for the last like, well, since the beginning of MacOS, then people are seriously going to pee.

If the idea that someone should be able to choose where they want to spend their money is something that doesn't jive with you, please don't call me idiotic. Just internalize your name calling please. Thanks.

R

I apologize if you felt that I actually called you an idiot. I said that the decision to just leave Tiger and go to Windows based on Apple's decision making on their next OS would be "idiotci".
Many Windows fanboys don't care for Vista so they just stay with XP. They don't just say, "Well Vista Sux" and drop all of their apps and switch to the Mac. People switch to the Mac because they are tired of Windows.
As far as the desktop going away, if Apple really decided to do that (which is only a local rumor) most likely they will design Leopard where it actually works for the end user.
If you have been around on the Mac for the last 7 years you will see that many things in a Windows PC today were initialized from Apple.
The original iMac did away with floppy drive. Everyone complained that it was dumb for Apple to do that. I can't find any laptops now that ship with a floppy as the standard.

Apple started wireless on the notebook and every notebook PC has it now.

OSX was criticized for being too pretty and "Who needs Widgets"? Now look at Vista.
Keep in mind whatever Apple does different with Leopard it will work out for the end user.

[besson3c]

What's really frustrating to me is that Apple clearly puts so much thought and attention into spit and polish in making their GUIs usable and thoughtfully designed (although they like to change things up frequently), yet OS X completely folds in getting some of the basics right.

It is absolutely pathetic that after all of these years, we still have a file manager that performs like complete and utter ass (the Finder). It is frustrating that Apple is unable to make the GUI fully responsive in many circumstances, and that even on a Macbook Pro with plenty of RAM some GUI animations like to stutter and various requests beachball and stall.

It is nice that we are getting all of these bells and whistles, and granted, there is some very cool stuff in OS X, but my number one desire for Leopard is to just go back and get the basics right. Optimize the hell out of Aqua, and give me a Finder that performs acceptably. I'd gladly give up some new animations and other icing for Apple to really nail this.

Oh, and I'd like the Connect to Server options presented in a similar fashion as they are in Gnome. A pull down menu of connection methods would be great, I've never really understood why having to type in "smb://" is a good design. I hope that SSH is now a connection option, this is about the only feature missing that I crave.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

A pull down menu of connection methods would be great, I've never really understood why having to type in "smb://" is a good design.

Do you understand why burdening a user with choices he doesn't understand and will probably get wrong is not a good design? Most people have trouble just figuring out whether they want to check the "Guest" option or not.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Do you understand why burdening a user with choices he doesn't understand and will probably get wrong is not a good design? Most people have trouble just figuring out whether they want to check the "Guest" option or not.

Then make it an advanced option with a default of some auto-detect mechanism or something, I don't care. The problem is, simply entering a domain or IP by itself is vague, and for those computers that accept more than one means of connection it is awkward to specify which you want currently.

[rem]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I hope that SSH is now a connection option, this is about the only feature missing that I crave.

In the meantime, there is a free solution called sshfs
(http://code.google.com/p/macfuse/downloads/list). I would not call it ssh* though. Its like calling a wheel a car. Its a graphical way to scp. Quite handy.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by rem 

In the meantime, there is a free solution called sshfs
(http://code.google.com/p/macfuse/downloads/list). I would not call it ssh* though. Its like calling a wheel a car. Its a graphical way to scp. Quite handy.

I know, I have been using it extensively. The problem is, as a kernel extension it is rather unstable. I've produced a lot of kernel panics with it, although they seem to have gone away as of late.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by WJMoore 

What for?

You answered it yourself below

I frequently use the Desktop folder for transient data though, so I see a need for that to be there.

I have temporary folders that I keep certain things in that I later put in it's place. I also like having desktop printers on sometimes as well depending on my workflow.

There is nothing wrong with options...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by dn15 

I say good riddance. Get rid of files on the Desktop. Add a "Downloads" folder for stuff that came from the Internet, and start using your frickin' Documents, Pictures and Music folders people!

I used these also. But I use the desktop as sort of a purgatory for my stuff till they get put into those folders.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Oh, and I'd like the Connect to Server options presented in a similar fashion as they are in Gnome. A pull down menu of connection methods would be great, I've never really understood why having to type in "smb://" is a good design. I hope that SSH is now a connection option, this is about the only feature missing that I crave.

I just go to my recently connected servers and click those. No need to type anything out.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Oh, and I'd like the Connect to Server options presented in a similar fashion as they are in Gnome. A pull down menu of connection methods would be great, I've never really understood why having to type in "smb://" is a good design. I hope that SSH is now a connection option, this is about the only feature missing that I crave.

It's exactly the way a web browser works. There's a default protocol (http for the web browser, afp for Connect to Server), and to use a different protocol, you type the URI.

[kman42]

Looks like ZFS is in according to reports from Sun today.

[brokenjago]

Not only in, but default :O

[OreoCookie]

Can anyone post a link?
If this is true, it's great news

[schalliol]

Software: ZFS Now Default File System in Apple's OS X Leopard - Gizmodo

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by schalliol 

Software: ZFS Now Default File System in Apple's OS X Leopard - Gizmodo

I wouldn't take that as canon. It may be true or it may not, but I'm not convinced the guy is in a position to imply that just by using the word "the."

[OreoCookie]

Even if it's just `a' filesystem, it's very good news, namely that Apple has found a future-proof filesystem beyond HFS+. I'm actually not sure if it's `the' filesystem since there is no boot support for ZFS (unless Apple's engineers have added it in the meantime). However, for *nix OS it's not really a big deal to spread the OS across several different filesystems (e. g. having a small boot partition that uses HFS+ and the rest can be formatted as ZFS).

[analogue SPRINKLES]

"Leopard: Rocket fuel for your apps"

So apps will have "Rocket fuel" on 3rd party apps in 10.5? Must be core animation plus some other goodies.

There also seems to be a strong space theme with 10.5 when you look at these banners and Time Machine.

[WJMoore]

I think its just a phrase. I don't think it means Core Animation + anything. We'll find out soon enough though.

Where's that photo from?

Also excellent to see ZFS becoming the default filesystem.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

"Leopard: Rocket fuel for your apps"

So apps will have "Rocket fuel" on 3rd party apps in 10.5? Must be core animation plus some other goodies.

Just among the already-announced features, Leopard is going to have an API that makes it easy for developers to use all the cores in the new multi-core Macs. That alone could make a huge speed difference. Probably also lots of enhancements to the graphics routines.

[schalliol]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

There also seems to be a strong space theme with 10.5 when you look at these banners and Time Machine.

Time Machine uses a space theme, so don't think that it is supposed to be any more than the theme for the component.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by schalliol 

Time Machine uses a space theme, so don't think that it is supposed to be any more than the theme for the component.

"expand your universe" doesn't sound like anything relating to Time Machine to me.

[lpkmckenna]

I doubt ZFS will be the default for current users. That would require current users to completely wipe their drives to install. However, I could see new Macs being ZFS at purchase.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

"expand your universe" doesn't sound like anything relating to Time Machine to me.

It think it's just referring to the conference in general, which is meant to introduce developers to new OS X technologies such as Time Machine.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I hope it has a screensaver as cool as this:

[Thinine]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I doubt ZFS will be the default for current users. That would require current users to completely wipe their drives to install. However, I could see new Macs being ZFS at purchase.

This is probably true. I also think this is the reason Time Machine will work with both HFS+ and ZFS formatted drives. Anyone doing an upgrade or an archive and install will still have HFS+, and I doubt Apple will want features to break when that happens.

[Boston_Designer]

Good morning...!!!

I've been a lurker for years, but decided to register so I can share a thought.

I hope (eventually?) Apple may find an alternative to the pervasive and consistent "Menu bar" at the top of the primary screen.

I have been using Macs for... well... let's just say a long time. When screen resolutions were 640x480... 800x600 or even 1024x768... the menu-bar was still not far away from visual proximity to the window or app you were using. Even with multiple monitors, you could do okay whipping-around the real-estate.

But - over the past few years, I've been wishing there were something better. At home, I run 3 (three) 20" Flat-panel displays running @ 1600 x 1200 each. I am finding it more & more irritating to have to cursor-over two desktops to make a change to a small application running on the furthes monitor from the primary display.

I don't think replicating what's done in Windows™ is the answer, but I must admit, I find it EASIER running multiple-displays in Windows as far as running multiple applications within different areas of the entire desktop real-estate.

What made the problem MORE apparent was getting my updated work system. I just got a Quad G5 but opted to try a single 30" display instead of two 23" displays. The monitor is beautiful, but I have to say... I am finding it to be more tedious to traverse the entire sea-of-pixels to jump-up to the menu-bar, then back to the application or window I'm working in.

It's not the end of the world... but I'm wondering if there's another way.

Either way - I am suprised at the LACK of 'leaks' about what the "secret" features might be in the next OS release... I am HOPING it doesn't mean that it's not that impressive.

I have read elsewhere that there may be a FEW paradigm shifts, but the rumors were extremely vague... hinting about "no more cluttered desktops and overlapping windows"... another hint was that files & folders may be "a thing of the past"... dunno what that'd mean.

I'll be hitting REFRESH with the rest of y'all tomorrow on whichever site give live updates.

crossing fingers.

-sf

[Phil333]

I didn't see this posted and this seems pretty important for Leopard. Apparently pretty big UI changes are coming. From wired.

http://www.wired.com/software/coolap...7/06/core_anim

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Phil333 

I didn't see this posted and this seems pretty important for Leopard. Apparently pretty big UI changes are coming. From wired.

http://www.wired.com/software/coolap...7/06/core_anim

Yep but that story is more about Apple laying the groundwork for Applications to have more impressive interfaces and not really saying Apple is changing the UI system wide though.

I wish Apple would rethink everything including the menubar at the top of the screen.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I wish Apple would rethink everything including the menubar at the top of the screen.

What do you mean? IMHO that's one of the single best features of OS X … I hate that you have to `look for' Windows apps' menu bars.