[Rumor]

Retrofit a fingerprint immobilizer in your car - Autoblog

I vaguely remember seeing something on Mythbusters a long time ago showing how easily these can be bypassed. Would it make a difference to thieves? The article mentions that a "valet" mode for when it's at the shop or being parked by someone other than a listed driver. I suppose it could be circumvented and broken into that way as well.

[Jawbone54]

MARK OF THE BEAST™


I swear I know people who will speculate that this is the beginning...

[Jawbone54]

On a serious note, I think this is a bad idea. Like you said, it will be manipulated somehow, someway.

Does seem cool though, from a geek's standpoint.

[Eriamjh]

Keys are no 1900s. Anything else would be a welcomed change.

But I'm not loaning anyone my finger to borrow my car. Except maybe the middle one.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Keys are no 1900s. Anything else would be a welcomed change.

But I'm not loaning anyone my finger to borrow my car. Except maybe the middle one.

It is rather bizarre, isn't it, that we still use keys in a such a complicated, computerized device? As long as it's reliable and works when it's supposed to, I would be all for it.

[Chuckit]

I wouldn't want it. The more complicated something is, the more likely it is to **** up. This is the same reason I don't get CD or DVD players with disc changers — that's just one more thing to break. I trust a simple, mechanical key. I don't want to get locked out of my car because it forgets what my finger looks like.

[Railroader]

I Digg it.
C'mon rumor. That was too easy.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I Digg it.
C'mon rumor. That was too easy.

You took the bait, but I expected you to do so faster. If you are going to troll, do so with everyone, otherwise you are harassing me.

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

It is rather bizarre, isn't it, that we still use keys in a such a complicated, computerized device? As long as it's reliable and works when it's supposed to, I would be all for it.

I work for an automotive supplier that has developed a Passive Entry / Passive Start system for GM. You carry the key fob, which looks like any standard keyless entry transmitter. It detects the FOB in your pocket when you pull on the door handle and opens the door. But with this device, you just carry it and push a button to start the car (hence the "passive" part).

Ironically, the fob still has a key that either flips out or is hidden inside. You insert it into a rather hidden slot to open the door if the system fails. There is always a mechanical fallback.

I'm trying to figure out how to put the system on my 77 Continental.

[mitchell_pgh]

I think I would rather see a smart card (like a credit card) that knows when I've approached the vehicle, and unlocks it and simply permits me to turn on the vehicle with the push of a button.

Keys are so 2006

[alligator]

Yes, Bluetooth to a key in your pocket sound great - I can't believe this isn't common across all product lines. A fingerprint sound stupid, unless it is only as a backup. First, what if you are in an emergency and it can't scan you finger quick enough? Second, what if your child wants to drive your car - you have to take the time to enroll him/her? What if you neeed a friend to take you to the hospital? There are too many "what ifs" where a simple wireless exchange with a key fob in your pocket and a push button could solve.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

You took the bait, but I expected you to do so faster. If you are going to troll, do so with everyone, otherwise you are harassing me.

So, you admit to baiting me?!?! That's a ban-worthy offense!

Oh, and no one else tried to flood the Lounge with Digg articles like you did.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

I work for an automotive supplier that has developed a Passive Entry / Passive Start system for GM. You carry the key fob, which looks like any standard keyless entry transmitter. It detects the FOB in your pocket when you pull on the door handle and opens the door. But with this device, you just carry it and push a button to start the car (hence the "passive" part).

Ironically, the fob still has a key that either flips out or is hidden inside. You insert it into a rather hidden slot to open the door if the system fails. There is always a mechanical fallback.

I'm trying to figure out how to put the system on my 77 Continental.

GM has had this in the Corvettes for a while haven't they?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by alligator 

Yes, Bluetooth to a key in your pocket sound great - I can't believe this isn't common across all product lines. A fingerprint sound stupid, unless it is only as a backup. First, what if you are in an emergency and it can't scan you finger quick enough? Second, what if your child wants to drive your car - you have to take the time to enroll him/her? What if you neeed a friend to take you to the hospital? There are too many "what ifs" where a simple wireless exchange with a key fob in your pocket and a push button could solve.

Bluetooth would have to be only as a backup...what happens when your battery runs out and you're locked out of your car? Not a good thing.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

It detects the FOB in your pocket when you pull on the door handle and opens the door.

I know the Chinese are typically slight, but how on earth are you going to get one into your pocket?

[analogika]

Is there any reason why this can't be bypassed any more easily than a key-based system?

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

GM has had this in the Corvettes for a while haven't they?

Yes. But the technology has been changing. At one time, the Corvette used a ball that just rattle over some contacts to transmit whenever you moved. The newer systems use better technology. I think our system will be going on the Camaro.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

I work for an automotive supplier that has developed a Passive Entry / Passive Start system for GM. You carry the key fob, which looks like any standard keyless entry transmitter. It detects the FOB in your pocket when you pull on the door handle and opens the door. But with this device, you just carry it and push a button to start the car (hence the "passive" part).

Ironically, the fob still has a key that either flips out or is hidden inside. You insert it into a rather hidden slot to open the door if the system fails. There is always a mechanical fallback.

That is exactly like the system inexpensive Renaults have been using from something like six years ago.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

So, you admit to baiting me?!?! That's a ban-worthy offense!

Oh, and no one else tried to flood the Lounge with Digg articles like you did.

And you admit to trolling me.

I did that once, what back at the beginning of the year? A mod told me to stop, I did, I apologized and it hasn't happened again.

You ARE NOT a mod. Remember that.

Since this kind of thing is up your alley (cars), I gave you the opportunity to come into this thread with something constructive, yet you begin with some jack ass "I digg it" comment.

You've even done that to thread that didn't come from Digg.

So again, if you are going to troll, do it to everyone, or I'll just begin to report you for harassment.

[Sherman Homan]

I don't want to derail this thread but at risk of taking it back to the issue of finger print security... Imagine the scenario where you have a flat tire, you stop, change the flat and hop back into your car. You stick your finger now covered with with grease/oil/dirt/sweat on the scanner. It rejects you.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan 

I don't want to derail this thread but at risk of taking it back to the issue of finger print security... Imagine the scenario where you have a flat tire, you stop, change the flat and hop back into your car. You stick your finger now covered with with grease/oil/dirt/sweat on the scanner. It rejects you.

That could be a problem. There would have to be some sort of fail safe.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

And you admit to trolling me.

I did that once, what back at the beginning of the year? A mod told me to stop, I did, I apologized and it hasn't happened again.

You ARE NOT a mod. Remember that.

Since this kind of thing is up your alley (cars), I gave you the opportunity to come into this thread with something constructive, yet you begin with some jack ass "I digg it" comment.

You've even done that to thread that didn't come from Digg.

So again, if you are going to troll, do it to everyone, or I'll just begin to report you for harassment.

Dude, calm down. Take a deep breath and back away from the keyboard for a little while. All the stress you are experiencing is not good for you.

"I Digg it" means... get this... "I like it". Digg?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Dude, calm down. Take a deep breath and back away from the keyboard for a little while. All the stress you are experiencing is not good for you.

"I Digg it" means... get this... "I like it". Digg?

With a double "g".

Right.

Play stupid, but don't pretend that because you're playing stupid, everybody else will suddenly play along.

It hasn't worked for Kevin, and it's not working for you.

[macroy]

IMO - Absolutely useless.

My guess is that anyone that knows how to hot wire a car can easily defeat this as well. The way I see it, these technologies HAS to make it MUCH harder for thieves to steal your car, but at the same time, be no more inconvenient for the owner (to a certain degree of course, any security control will usually require some form of extra effort). In this case, I see it being a major pain in the ass for the owner... while removing very little of the threat.

Oh, and while I'm not a car theft expert... but aren't older / more common cars stolen more? i.e. your run of the mill late model Camry's, Civics, and Corolla's? How much is this going to cost the owner?

As for the GM gadget with the FOB.... I think MB has been doing that for years. I remember seeing that back in 2003 when I was car shopping. And its also standard on Lexus cars (at least the ES).

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by analogika 

With a double "g".

Right.

Play stupid, but don't pretend that because you're playing stupid, everybody else will suddenly play along.

It hasn't worked for Kevin, and it's not working for you.

Hmm.. I guess that's why I "dugg" the story. I guess you don't "digg".

[analogika]

No...I don't.

And your petulant ankle-biting about stuff that's been posted elsewhere is starting to REALLY annoy me.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by analogika 

No...I don't.

And your petulant ankle-biting about stuff that's been posted elsewhere is starting to REALLY annoy me.

EDIT (Change of heart): You know, out of respect for you, I will stop. Thank you for your concern.

[BadKosh]

Sounded like a good idea, until a Red Dwarf episode had them using the hand of a dead guy to pass thru the security doors. They hid the hand in Listers jacket!!!

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

That could be a problem. There would have to be some sort of fail safe.

You mean like registering all 10 of your fingers?

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I know the Chinese are typically slight, but how on earth are you going to get one into your pocket?

I don't understand your question. Get one what into your pocket?

[Big Mac]

He's making a joke about the acronym FOB, Eriamjh - Fresh Off the Boat. It's a popular way (in Chinese circles) to describe recent Chinese immigrants. i.e. it's hard to fit a recent Chinese immigrant in your pocket.

Fingerprint authentication sounds cool, but it works a lot better in film than it does in real life. As for the newer keyless entry key fob technology, is it constantly transmitting the code? That would seem like a security risk.

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

He's making a joke about the acronym FOB, Eriamjh - Fresh Off the Boat. It's a popular way (in Chinese circles) to describe recent Chinese immigrants. i.e. it's hard to fit a recent Chinese immigrant in your pocket.

Fingerprint authentication sounds cool, but it works a lot better in film than it does in real life. As for the newer keyless entry key fob technology, is it constantly transmitting the code? That would seem like a security risk.

And ironically, I have no idea WTF the word FOB came from to refer to a keyless transmitter.

Nevermind. I just wiki'd it.

[richwig83]

I really like starting a car with a key, there is something quite satisfying about it!!!! Although a car that unlocks itself when you get close and then starts itself once you've been sat in the seat for say 5 seconds would be cool!!

[Graviton]

It's just another component to break down and cost the earth to fix.

[Paco500]

It's a doomsday scenario I know, but it could lead to car-jackings including the loss of a hand/finger as well as your car. Which would suck.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by richwig83 

I really like starting a car with a key, there is something quite satisfying about it!!!! Although a car that unlocks itself when you get close and then starts itself once you've been sat in the seat for say 5 seconds would be cool!!

Except when I'm in a hurry and that 5 seconds lasts an eternity.

[talisker]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

That is exactly like the system inexpensive Renaults have been using from something like six years ago.

I know, but lets allow these Americans to believe they're at the cutting edge of automotive design. Charity's a nice thing.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

I vaguely remember seeing something on Mythbusters a long time ago showing how easily these can be bypassed. Would it make a difference to thieves? The article mentions that a "valet" mode for when it's at the shop or being parked by someone other than a listed driver. I suppose it could be circumvented and broken into that way as well.

The myth busters need to bust the myth that fingerprint scanners were busted on Mythbusters. They only bypassed the scanner with the complete cooperation of the authorized user, by xeroxing his finger. Just don't go around xeroxing your finger and your fingerprint scanner will be fine.

[Chuckit]

Yeah, it's impossible to get someone's fingerprint without his cooperation…

[Uncle Skeleton]

It's harder than getting their key (or a copy) without cooperation, unless you're talking about crooked cops or other professionals like bank tellers (in which case crooked locksmiths outweigh them anyway).