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Student tazered at Kerry speech
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driven
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:12 AM
 
Police Taser student at Kerry speech - News - GainesvilleSun.com

I don't like the students approach. I'm not even sure that he was following protocol for the event. None-the-less the campus "police" went over the top in using a tazer. 6 "officers" couldn't subdue one student without a tazer?

I'm not really a big fan of universities having police departments, which usually amount to not much more than security guards with guns and tazers.
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:27 AM
 
I love Amaraca, land of the free, Freedom of Speach and what not.

Oh, and IBL or move to PL.

-t
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:29 AM
 
Right. There'll be a good bit more of this now that we've got rid of all them pesky civil liberties.
     
Dakarʒ
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:29 AM
 
There's already one in the PL, replete with video.
     
design219
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:38 AM
 
It will be interesting to see how these two threads parallel.

Here is the video: YouTube - UF Police Taser Student During Kerry Forum
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driven  (op)
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:42 AM
 
I dont' want to get into the politics of it. (I don't even visit that forum any more.)

I'm more interested in the aspect of university police with tazers.
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turtle777
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
I dont' want to get into the politics of it. (I don't even visit that forum any more.)

I'm more interested in the aspect of university police with tazers.
Dude, good luck keeping that non-political. Will never work out here in the Lounge.

-t
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:50 AM
 
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driven  (op)
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Dude, good luck keeping that non-political. Will never work out here in the Lounge.

-t
Call me an optimist.
(Or at least hopeful ...)
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turtle777
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
Call me an optimist.
(Or at least hopeful ...)
You freaggin' dopeful optomoist !!1!1oneone

-t
     
wallinbl
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:07 PM
 
Let's change the headline to "Asshole can't get over himself, harasses politician, and resists police escort".

This guy has a history of being a complete dick in as many situations as he can. It seems to be his life goal to just be a public asshole. Perhaps the police shouldn't have tazered him, but I think a few of his peers should kick him in th nuts.
     
turtle777
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
Let's change the headline to "Asshole can't get over himself, harasses politician, and resists police escort".

This guy has a history of being a complete dick in as many situations as he can. It seems to be his life goal to just be a public asshole. Perhaps the police shouldn't have tazered him, but I think a few of his peers should kick him in th nuts.
Oh, come on, it's not his fault.

It's the society's, the political right's, the Black man's, the churches and Darwin's fault. Give him a break.

-t
     
driven  (op)
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
Let's change the headline to "Asshole can't get over himself, harasses politician, and resists police escort".

This guy has a history of being a complete dick in as many situations as he can. It seems to be his life goal to just be a public asshole. Perhaps the police shouldn't have tazered him, but I think a few of his peers should kick him in th nuts.
Now THAT wouldn't have bothered me.
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:30 PM
 
Sounds like he was promoting his book or something. Free speech doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.

Also, I loved the drama "someone help me... ouch... ouch!!!"
     
driven  (op)
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:36 PM
 
Since it was a private venue, I'm not sure free speech rights apply. I thought free speech was only for public venues?

For example: I can't stand in the middle of home depot and try to get people to join the "save the lumber, build plastic houses" foundation without being asked to leave. (Or, if Home Depot had their own police department, I'd probably be tazered before being charged with criminal tresspass.)
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
Since it was a private venue, I'm not sure free speech rights apply. I thought free speech was only for public venues?
Yes but that is technicalities.

I don't know how many non-American's I've seen in forums where they BASH America cause they get banned from an American based forum by saying "I thought you guys were all about free speech!" and totally not get it at all.

For example, said person would be able to start his OWN forum and say whatever he wants to.

Free speech isn't the freedom to be obnoxious where obnoxiousness isn't wanted. Esp if it's on private property.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:47 PM
 
I'm waiting for some nut in the PL to comment that they wish Kerry got Tazered. Any bets on who it is?

I say stupendousman
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
I'm waiting for some nut in the PL to comment that they wish Kerry got Tazered. Any bets on who it is?

I say stupendousman
I was thinking abe or crash.
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Dakarʒ
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:54 PM
 
abe doesn't have PL privileges. Nor has he been spotted since his political thread went to the forum where it belonged.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Yes but that is technicalities.

I don't know how many non-American's I've seen in forums where they BASH America cause they get banned from an American based forum by saying "I thought you guys were all about free speech!" and totally not get it at all.

For example, said person would be able to start his OWN forum and say whatever he wants to.

Free speech isn't the freedom to be obnoxious where obnoxiousness isn't wanted. Esp if it's on private property.
Well, was this student a PAYING student? What is wrong with this?
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
Police Taser student at Kerry speech - News - GainesvilleSun.com
6 "officers" couldn't subdue one student without a tazer?
Now, without knowing exactly what happened there, I'm not going to say if that arrest was justified. However, I will say this - When an officer of the law gives you an order, its in your best interest to comply. Had this dude just followed instructions/demands.... we wouldn't be talking about this. If the officer's demands were inappropriate, he has legal options afterwards. To me, the fact that he resisted arrest, and was warned about what's to come if he didn't comply.... he deserved it.

And its easy to look back now and say he didn't hurt anyone... but let's say they didn't taze him.... and the struggle intensified and others had joined in... what then? A lot of times the actions are not based on the direct threat... but potential escalation of threats. Not saying this was the case... but its always easy to predict things AFTER they have happened.
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turtle777
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Sep 18, 2007, 01:01 PM
 
What I'm really worried about is that 6(!!!) police officers could not calm down 1 student w/o a tazer.

I don't feel safer after knowing this

-t
     
Dakarʒ
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Sep 18, 2007, 01:11 PM
 
I'm wondering if tazering isn't being seen as some easy less-likely to be sued alternative to physical restrainment.
     
design219
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Sep 18, 2007, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
I'm wondering if tazering isn't being seen as some easy less-likely to be sued alternative to physical restrainment.
We will see in the coming week or so.
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Sep 18, 2007, 01:39 PM
 
Looked like they had him on the floor, one wrist cuffed, and then tazered him, so yeah I'd say that while the arrest was legitimate there was no reason at all to tazer.
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Sep 18, 2007, 01:51 PM
 
This is a scandal. Those "officers" have no idea what they do.
Tasing someone who is already on the ground? Unable to control that guy with so many people?
I cant believe that, and i can´t believe the other people - including Kerry - just ignoring it.

Terrible.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 02:57 PM
 
To students, faculty, staff, alumni and friends:

I have received a great deal of communication and input last night and this morning regarding the incident that occurred Monday at the conclusion of a town hall forum being held by Sen. John Kerry. The incident resulted in a student being tasered.
We are interested in learning what happened and are taking the following immediate steps to ensure the university utilizes best practice protocols:

* University of Florida Police Chief Linda Stump has requested the Florida Department of Law Enforcement conduct a formal investigation into the arrest of UF student Andrew Meyer. An independent review such as this will make sure the results are objective and impartial. Chief Stump's priority is to ensure that the public remains confident in the department's ability to keep the campus safe.
* Two officers involved in the incident have been placed on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.
* We plan to assemble a panel of faculty and students to review our police protocols, our management practices and the FDLE report to come up with a series of recommendations for the university.
* Administrators and police officials plan to analyze the incident and conduct an internal review and will consider changing protocols in response to this incident, if necessary.
* Finally, as is standard procedure, the State Attorney's Office will review the charges brought against Mr. Meyer. We have communicated with the State Attorney and understand he plans to expedite his review.

I will talk about the incident and answer questions at a news conference scheduled for 2 p.m. in Emerson Alumni Hall.

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Sep 18, 2007, 02:59 PM
 
The university police "officers" in the video are far from what I'd call "the school's finest." The one trying to get the guy away from the mic looks like an ad for a weight loss program.

Of course I'm glad they had Tasers-they didn't shoot the kid with a pistol.

I think this is an example of over the top "enforcement" of the meanest kind. As a public servant, a police officer is supposed to isolate his or her personal feelings (and politics) from his or her official actions. It looks very much like these officers were not happy at having to work Mr. Kerry's event, and the kid pushed one too many of their buttons. They reacted as individuals, not as officials, and thus misused both their uniforms and their weapons. Note that a full investigation of the event has been requested. Hopefully there will be a big, nasty, ugly and public inquest and the officers will at least get some sort of serious (as in monetary) penalty for their actions. The kid should be found guilty of trespassing (he WAS asked to leave and DID overstay his alloted time), and given a suspended sentence (of what? 6 hours community service?).

And I'm impressed by Kerry's reaction-he was apparently trying to defuse the situation and the cops just ignored him. Way to go school cops!

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Sep 18, 2007, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
And I'm impressed by Kerry's reaction-he was apparently trying to defuse the situation and the cops just ignored him.
Being John Kerry will do that to you.

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Sep 18, 2007, 03:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven
Since it was a private venue, I'm not sure free speech rights apply. I thought free speech was only for public venues?
Really? I thought free speech rights were applicable everywhere; meaning that whether or not this was a private venue or not, he still had the right to say whatever he wanted [excepting threats, slander, and whatever else exemptions there are from the free speech rights in general] without fearing (legal/state) persecution for it.

Originally Posted by driven
For example: I can't stand in the middle of home depot and try to get people to join the "save the lumber, build plastic houses" foundation without being asked to leave.
Being asked (or even forced) to leave private property for what you’re saying isn’t the same as not being covered by free speech. Home Depot might well ask you to leave, and that’s their right, since you’re on their property—but they can ask you to leave without having any reason at all, too, and you’d be in the exact same position. What they can’t do, however, is charge you with anything for asking people to “join the lumber, build plastic houses”, ’cause it’s still not illegal.

They can ask you to move along in a public place, too, of course; there, they just don’t have the authority to order you off.

If this was private property, then this guy’s arrest has nothing to do with free speech not applying, but with refusing to vacate the property when so ordered, and resisting escort by security/police officers when forced to comply.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 03:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Being John Kerry will do that to you.
Zing.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 03:37 PM
 
I think since the advent of tasers cops and cop wanna bees seem more apt to use it because its non-lethal.

From what I read the guy wasn't innocent, he kept hammering away at Kerry and wouldn't relent (not that he deserved to get tasered)

In general these things seem cause more harm then good for both the victim, for the cop and the organization such as the university.
     
CollinG3G4
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Sep 18, 2007, 06:22 PM
 
Lets see...
Guy makes a scene, refuses to leave, and resists the escorting officers. How is a taze NOT justified?

Seriously, people like that deserve every bit of pain and discomfort their behavior commands.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 07:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by CollinG3G4 View Post
Lets see...
Guy makes a scene, refuses to leave, and resists the escorting officers. How is a taze NOT justified?
I believe because they could have subdued him without using excessive force. Just because someone is resisting doesn't mean they should be tasered.

In most states the police are required to use sufficient force to get a handle on the situation and not use excessive.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 07:42 PM
 
They did not taser him.
A taser will knock you on your ass. You won't be able to say "ouch"

They stunned him. The voltage is much much lower. A taser gun has a stun setting which does not use the same juice it puts out when it is used to shoot someone from a distance. It is meant to induce pain so the subject stops struggling. The alternative is to step on his head so he can't jump around.

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Sep 18, 2007, 07:54 PM
 
We're working on our new "Ranters Will Be Tazed" campaign slogan right now.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 09:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
They did not taser him.
A taser will knock you on your ass. You won't be able to say "ouch"

They stunned him. The voltage is much much lower. A taser gun has a stun setting which does not use the same juice it puts out when it is used to shoot someone from a distance. It is meant to induce pain so the subject stops struggling. The alternative is to step on his head so he can't jump around.
I'm not a taserologist, but it seems to me that if you are using a taser on someone, then the appropriate verb would be "to taser," or "tasered," regardless of the voltage setting. But I see your point.

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Sep 18, 2007, 09:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sörnäinen View Post
Unable to control that guy with so many people?
This comes up every time somebody sees 3+ officers trying to subdue somebody. Every single time. I'm not picking on you, but you're one that brought it up.

If there are enough officers, they are trained to help each other out to subdue a person. People are extremely strong when adrenaline kicks in. One officer will hold the head. This is the most important part because it's hard to control a lot of your body movement without being able to move your head. Add one officer on each arm for control, and if you have enough or need it, you can put some on the feet. Just because there are many officers are around one person doesn't make it 'police brutality' which is often yelled out.

It's the easiest and safest way to subdue somebody without the officers getting hurt, while having enough people to subdue the subject so only one officer doesn't have to struggle and potentially hurt the subject.

Am I saying the guy deserved it? Not necessarily. It's not that they "couldn't do it" with less, it's just easier for them with more. Granted, it would be super intimidating to be surrounded by tons of officers, but that's when you listen to what they say and make it easy on yourself. He had a choice to stop, even if they weren't justified. He wouldn't have been tased. I don't feel he should have been tased at that point anyway, but that's just my opinion.
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Sep 18, 2007, 10:06 PM
 
I believe Glenn hit it on the head. The cops were over the top and are all loose cannons.

Had they done nothing the guy would have gotten his answers from Kerry, perhaps made one or two remarks near or away from the mic and everyone would go back to their daily life.

We can thank the cops for creating and escalating an issue that simple did not exist beforehand.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 10:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by pinenuts View Post
I believe Glenn hit it on the head. The cops were over the top and are all loose cannons.

Had they done nothing the guy would have gotten his answers from Kerry, perhaps made one or two remarks near or away from the mic and everyone would go back to their daily life.

We can thank the cops for creating and escalating an issue that simple did not exist beforehand.
Did you miss the first part of the video? He was asked to stop. He didn't stop, so they turned his microphone off. He just started yelling louder. So far, the cops have not been involved, and the guy has escalated the issue himself. They tried to escort him out of the building and he escalated the issue even further. Don't pretend the cops made an issue. Meyer made the issue.
     
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Sep 18, 2007, 11:49 PM
 
After watching the video from the Gainesville Sun, I am not convinced the Campus police asked him to leave before they put their hands on him to force him to leave. His mike was cut and the women officer grabbed his arm almost immediately. Seems off to me.

Second point, is that a taser is only supposed to be used to protect life, etc. Any use as punishment is against the law. Only judges and trials can administer that. After watching the video it sure seems more like punishment instead of protection.
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Sep 19, 2007, 12:01 AM
 
It wasn't all that long ago that the cops had NO tools to subdue an unruly asshole except a gun or a stick. Now they have pepper spray and tazers and when they use them OH MY GOD THE HORROR!

This ass was not within his rights to continue his idiotic grandstanding and no one has the "right" to forcibly resist a LEGAL escort out of building or an arrest simply because they feel like it.

We should be encouraging the use of these non-lethal devices. The more of these videos that we see the more likely we will see some asinine "angry mom" legislation that bans these things and the cops will be more limited in their options once again. You give a cop ONLY a stick or a gun and they will either use the stick or the gun. Is that better?
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Sep 19, 2007, 12:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
After watching the video from the Gainesville Sun, I am not convinced the Campus police asked him to leave before they put their hands on him to force him to leave. His mike was cut and the women officer grabbed his arm almost immediately. Seems off to me.

Second point, is that a taser is only supposed to be used to protect life, etc. Any use as punishment is against the law. Only judges and trials can administer that. After watching the video it sure seems more like punishment instead of protection.
He was clearly struggling and not complying.
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Sep 19, 2007, 12:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
He was clearly struggling and not complying.
I never said he did not struggle. He clearly did so after he was grabbed by the arm.

When was he asked to leave? It is not clear to me at all. His mike was cut and they grabbed him. If they grabbed him before he was asked to leave then the Police were wrong. If they asked him to leave and he refused, or if he was a physical threat to anyone, then he should have been arrested and removed.
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Sep 19, 2007, 12:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
Did you miss the first part of the video? He was asked to stop. He didn't stop, so they turned his microphone off. He just started yelling louder. So far, the cops have not been involved, and the guy has escalated the issue himself. They tried to escort him out of the building and he escalated the issue even further. Don't pretend the cops made an issue. Meyer made the issue.
Did you miss the part where Kerry says he wants to answer the questions? Clearly, the cops reacted to something which simply did not exist. So what if he yelled? Whoop-dee-doo. Let him yell for a few seconds and then he'll stop. Now we have a huge debate, criminal charges, investigations, protests, etc. Meanwhile there are starving children and people with no health insurance. Priorities anyone?
     
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Sep 19, 2007, 12:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post

When was he asked to leave? It is not clear to me at all. His mike was cut and they grabbed him..
The female officer asked him to wrap it up when he got to the "disenfranchised black voters" about 50 seconds later they asked him to leave the mic to which he responded he had 3 more questions.

This guy is an idiot. He kept ranting how he thought he was going to be killed by the police, failed to show a student ID when asked, and then refused to give the officers his name.

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Sep 19, 2007, 12:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
It wasn't all that long ago that the cops had NO tools to subdue an unruly asshole except a gun or a stick. Now they have pepper spray and tazers and when they use them OH MY GOD THE HORROR!

This ass was not within his rights to continue his idiotic grandstanding and no one has the "right" to forcibly resist a LEGAL escort out of building or an arrest simply because they feel like it.

We should be encouraging the use of these non-lethal devices. The more of these videos that we see the more likely we will see some asinine "angry mom" legislation that bans these things and the cops will be more limited in their options once again. You give a cop ONLY a stick or a gun and they will either use the stick or the gun. Is that better?
You might want to go back an look how the "less than lethal" tools were sold to Police Departments and to the public that payed for them. They were NOT supposed to be used on non-violent suspects. At least in this case it could be argued that he was a danger to the officers by resisting efforts to place him in handcuffs. In the California case that student was not a threat. Or at least that is my opinion.
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Sep 19, 2007, 12:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
Really? I thought free speech rights were applicable everywhere; meaning that whether or not this was a private venue or not, he still had the right to say whatever he wanted [excepting threats, slander, and whatever else exemptions there are from the free speech rights in general] without fearing (legal/state) persecution for it.
I think this would fall under the laws of "disorderly conduct" or "disturbing the peace" ... both of which are exemptions to free speech and generally apply to most organized assemblies.
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Sep 19, 2007, 12:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by CollinG3G4 View Post
Lets see...
Guy makes a scene, refuses to leave, and resists the escorting officers. How is a taze NOT justified?

Seriously, people like that deserve every bit of pain and discomfort their behavior commands.
Wonderful. So you say security people in the U.S.A. are not able to get their will without physical violence and without tasering people?

Sorry, my dear - but that guy was not "making a scene", he was just stubborn a bit. Something that you can easily solve without any physical violence at all if you are not stupid like bread. And IF you need physical violence for that, it´s easy to put that guy out without any electrification. How totally helpless and unable to do their job are THESE security people???
     
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Sep 19, 2007, 12:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
You might want to go back an look how the "less than lethal" tools were sold to Police Departments and to the public that payed for them. They were NOT supposed to be used on non-violent suspects. At least in this case it could be argued that he was a danger to the officers by resisting efforts to place him in handcuffs. In the California case that student was not a threat. Or at least that is my opinion.
I don't really recall how they were "sold". What I do know is that in this and the UCLA case the drive-stun mode tazing is justified IMO. I realize that there are cases of misuse but we have to be careful how those are handled. In America lately we seem to have taken to throwing out the baby with the bath water.
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