[photoeditor]

A note to Poison Tooth; this really is not a bleeding edge model. That would have been the first Titanium PowerBook back in January 2001. This is the fourth version of what is by now an established design. I passed on the first version because it was an expensive new design with a flawed optical drive, on the second because it was hot and noisy, and on the third because I didn't have the money available at the time. I figured I was pretty safe with the fourth, but now I have had three defective computers in three weeks.

People have a right to expect some consistency in these products, and clearly that has been lacking on Apple's assembly line these last few weeks. We have fans that run all the time, fans that barely run at all, and fans that fail altogether and make an obnoxious grinding noise. It isn't peoples' imagination either; individual people are reporting widely varying noise performance from different PowerBooks. It isn't good for us, who suffer a lot of wasted time dealing with returns and repairs, and it isn't good for Apple, who end up spending a lot of money to correct simple mistakes that should never have left the factory floor.

Also, it's worth pointing out that the components of this fourth version that are actually bleeding edge -- the hard drive and the graphics card -- have not generated any hardware-related complaints whatsoever.

[hippy]

Originally posted by photoeditor:
A note to Poison Tooth; this really is not a bleeding edge model. That would have been the first Titanium PowerBook back in January 2001. This is the fourth version of what is by now an established design. I passed on the first version because it was an expensive new design with a flawed optical drive, on the second because it was hot and noisy, and on the third because I didn't have the money available at the time. I figured I was pretty safe with the fourth, but now I have had three defective computers in three weeks.

People have a right to expect some consistency in these products, and clearly that has been lacking on Apple's assembly line these last few weeks. We have fans that run all the time, fans that barely run at all, and fans that fail altogether and make an obnoxious grinding noise. It isn't peoples' imagination either; individual people are reporting widely varying noise performance from different PowerBooks. It isn't good for us, who suffer a lot of wasted time dealing with returns and repairs, and it isn't good for Apple, who end up spending a lot of money to correct simple mistakes that should never have left the factory floor.

Also, it's worth pointing out that the components of this fourth version that are actually bleeding edge -- the hard drive and the graphics card -- have not generated any hardware-related complaints whatsoever.

well said...

[Troll]

Originally posted by PoisonTooth:

Before you get too militant, you might want to prepare to answer the question of WHY you bought a bleeding-edge model -- one devoid of media reviews or any real chatroom discussion -- in the first place.

Not trying to be harsh, but give the "this is NOT acceptable" schpiel a rest. Nobody had a gun to your head when you plunked down the cash for your TiBook. Eary adopters always take a chance, and this is no exception.

This is probably the last incarnation of the TiBook - it's certainly not bleeding edge! This is what, rev. 3 or 4. People who bought this based their decision on the other models that have come out previously and since they got something that is in some ways inferior, they're justified in complaining.

I have an 867 that has this problem and the 867 is not that much different from the older DVI model that doesn't have the problem! So the internals are slightly different. If we were all to stop buying and wait for a review or a chatroom discussion every time Apple changed something inside one of their products, Apple wouldn't sell much at all.

In any event, if Apple has changed the design somehow, they should be honest, admit the error and recall the problem machines. If this was a Dell problem, would you be as forgiving of Dell?

[bamchum]

I talked to AppleCare today. I explained that the right-side fan on my Ghz TiBook comes on after about 20 minutes even if I'm doing nothing on the computer and never shuts off. The first (tier one) tech I talked to didn't seem to have much of a clue. He asked me if I had Energy Saver set to dim the screen because "the backlight really generates a lot of heat." This sounded like BS to me but I humored him by setting the screen to turn off the backlight and seeing how long it took for the fan to come on. It took 40 minutes (during which I was doing nothing on the computer) and then, of course, wouldn't shut off.

So I called back and was bumped to a tier 2 tech. He put me on hold while he went to consult with an engineer. Then he came back and said:

"We recently redesigned the TiBooks and...."

I expected him to finish his sentence by telling me about the (alleged) fix for the product a couple of weeks ago. But no. He finished his sentence thusly:

"....and they generate a lot of heat. Engineering says it is entirely normal for the right-side fan to be on whenever the PowerBook is powered up."

I quizzed him, skeptically and at length, about what this was supposed to mean and he stuck to his guns: basically Apple (at least this time) is saying that the new PowerBooks are designed to have the right-side fan on all the time.

Has anyone here been told something else by a tech talking to engineering?

[John123]

Originally posted by bamchum:
I talked to AppleCare today. I explained that the right-side fan on my Ghz TiBook comes on after about 20 minutes even if I'm doing nothing on the computer and never shuts off. The first (tier one) tech I talked to didn't seem to have much of a clue. He asked me if I had Energy Saver set to dim the screen because "the backlight really generates a lot of heat." This sounded like BS to me but I humored him by setting the screen to turn off the backlight and seeing how long it took for the fan to come on. It took 40 minutes (during which I was doing nothing on the computer) and then, of course, wouldn't shut off.

So I called back and was bumped to a tier 2 tech. He put me on hold while he went to consult with an engineer. Then he came back and said:

"We recently redesigned the TiBooks and...."

I expected him to finish his sentence by telling me about the (alleged) fix for the product a couple of weeks ago. But no. He finished his sentence thusly:

"....and they generate a lot of heat. Engineering says it is entirely normal for the right-side fan to be on whenever the PowerBook is powered up."

I quizzed him, skeptically and at length, about what this was supposed to mean and he stuck to his guns: basically Apple (at least this time) is saying that the new PowerBooks are designed to have the right-side fan on all the time.

Has anyone here been told something else by a tech talking to engineering?

I am really befuddled as to why it's so hard to accept that the fan -- intentionally placed on your computer -- is abnormal. If you were using a knife to carve your name into a table, then we'd expect little heat. But this is a laptop computer! A laptop computer is *always* doing things, no matter whether you the user are asking it to do specific tasks.

If your fan is loud, that is one thing. If it's simply on, that's entirely something else.

[CyberPet]

The saga continues:

I am soo PO'd right now!

My PowerBook has been at an Apple Center. They've never seen a 1 GHz TiBook before, so it's all new to them. And they don't see (or rather hear) a problem with the PowerBook.

According to them, the fans are behaving normally. The second fan only kicks in when in heavy use, but in "normal" use only the first fan is running and the second fand turns off. On the contrary to my experience with the Mac using it for several hours a day.

I thought they had confused my machine with someone elses PB, or it got a bump somewhere so it was dead silent when they got it, being a glitch or something.

Well, I got my PowerBook back home about 6 hours ago. Guess what? I've only been browsing the web and checking email... and the first fan came on after a few minutes, then the second fan kicked in... and in the 6 hours it's been running it's never come off once. I've been runing on AC to charge the battery (they depleated it, the morons) and now it's been on battery for 3 hours and still the second (louder) fan is running.

So, maybe the Apple Center guys are on drugs or something, but this fan is not acting normal! I don't even DARE to run Photoshop or heavier stuff... maybe the fan will choke and die?!

The computer is still very cool to the touch, both on the bottom and on the top and over the keyboard. So I don't see a reason why the second fan even would turn on when I'm not running any processor hungry software??!!

They also said they wouldn't "approve" a DOA or a replacement of the mother board after they've seen/heard the PowerBook.

Although they *MIGHT* re-think, when they get in some 1 GHz TiBooks and can compare my Powerbook with another unit. *sighs*

But until then I'm stuck with this nosiy thing with fans that never shuts off unless I put it to sleep or KILL IT! *grrr*

I've just finished off a letter to the CEO of Apple Sweden, telling him what I think about the quality of the PowerBooks (this is my 3rd Powerbook with some major problems - not all fan related mind you) and the crappy Support Apple gives.

I'll teach them to not mess with a Swedish girl from up north... we're mean when we get angry (like a bear with cubs).

[bamchum]

Originally posted by John123:


I am really befuddled as to why it's so hard to accept that the fan -- intentionally placed on your computer -- is abnormal.

Let me try to clear up your perplexity: Previous iterations of this computer, which were running at only fractionally slower speeds, did not have a fan that ran all the time. Therefore, it is reasonable to want to know whether it is normal that the fan in this computer runs all the time. Especially since others are reporting that their fans don't run all the time.

Apple itself has provided further reason for skepticism by fairly consistently (in my experience) being unwilling to admit product faults other than where the very lives of the consumer are at stake (e.g., faulty Lombard power supplies, exploding batteries on the 5300). Were there a little more transparency from Apple (like, say, a single official post on their bulleting boards about this), there'd be a lot less paranoia.

That said, I'm more or less ready to accept Apple's explanation. I also wouldn't be surprised if there were a firmware fix put out eventually.

[CyberPet]

I was enjoying myself with downloading Jeremy's CSM Bundle from version tracker today and booted into OS 9 and installed the G3 & G4 Temperature CSM (it won't work in OS X and there's no CPU temp meters for OS X as far as I can tell).

I had it running for a while on my 1GHz Superdrive and the temp did range between 27�C and 31�C.

I then for the sport of it, installed the same Control Strip both in my Pismo (G3/400MHz) and the loaner computer I've had (PB G4/667MHz).

These are the results I got from the three computers. Sorry I'm not posting it in Farenheit, but if you have the calculator in OS X you can convert the temps.

1GHz Supderdrive, core temp: 27 to 31�C
667 MHz PBG4, core temp: 27 to 39�C
PIsmo (400MHz) core temp: 39 to 47�C

I was running a heavy duty file in all machines (like 50 MB) in Photoshop, made some clouds, crosstitch and gaussian blur to see if I could choke the processor.

The amusing part is that the fan in the Pismo has never come on since i got it, and it didn't this time either, while the fans on both G4 TiBooks were running.

Maybe Titanium is more sensitive than black plastic? *giggles*

OK; enough about the fans for today... now I'm going to put myself and the computer to sleep. A new day tomorrow!

[John123]

Originally posted by bamchum:


Let me try to clear up your perplexity: Previous iterations of this computer, which were running at only fractionally slower speeds, did not have a fan that ran all the time. Therefore, it is reasonable to want to know whether it is normal that the fan in this computer runs all the time. Especially since others are reporting that their fans don't run all the time.

Apple itself has provided further reason for skepticism by fairly consistently (in my experience) being unwilling to admit product faults other than where the very lives of the consumer are at stake (e.g., faulty Lombard power supplies, exploding batteries on the 5300). Were there a little more transparency from Apple (like, say, a single official post on their bulleting boards about this), there'd be a lot less paranoia.

That said, I'm more or less ready to accept Apple's explanation. I also wouldn't be surprised if there were a firmware fix put out eventually.

I had the 550 and the 667DVI. The fans ran enough -- and noisily enough -- to where I am actually pleasantly surprised to have my 1Ghz SD machine running the way it does...constant, but fairly quiet.

[wilburguy]

Personally, I don't have a problem with the right side fan by the power plug being on all the time. I have a problem with how loud it is. Mine sounds like a blow dryer.

[hippy]

Originally posted by wilburguy:
Personally, I don't have a problem with the right side fan by the power plug being on all the time. I have a problem with how loud it is. Mine sounds like a blow dryer.

Does it sound lounder than the DVD drive when spinning up... mines is probably about 75% of that sound....

[PoisonTooth]

Look, I don't doubt that some of you have serious problems with your fans, but people like hippy are ACTIVELY TRYING to convice themselves they have a problem.

I'd be very interested to know how many of you have the fan problem versus how many just think you do.

[kerl]

Correction: I missinformed you in my last post (due to missinformation on my side): DOA Machines can only be changed where they were bought, so mine is being picked up by the AppleStore while they're sending a new machine directly from Taiwan.

Advantages: It's built after 12/6 for sure (if that changes something, I'm still not sure about that point).

Disatvantages: Eventually dead pixels, case / paint problems. Apple's not working during X-Mas, so it's arraving after that.

But I don't care anymore. I'm working in the meantime on my old PC, and i must say i'm astonished about how fast and snappy the interface is (Win2000). OS X Jaguar is still slow on the GUI side. far to slow. But I'm missing all those iApps and other intelligent features on the PC side... And the Unix core... But that's another story.

[wolfen]

Personally, I have come to accept "the fan thing." Time to get over it, really. Yeah, it's a minor annoyance. But running on battery power ain't bad. I find the noise acceptable at that point.

However, I know one way to get Apple's attention. I would like to see someone make and distribute a 30-second video/commercial spoof about it...

Camera pans to a guy sitting on his car right near an airport runway as a plane flies overhead. He's yelling something, but we only make out the last bit "...and my Powerbook is virtually silent!"

Next scene, a guy is in an oil refinery with all the machines whirring and clanking nearby, PA system in the background, minor beeping and honking noises. He's all gritty with a Powerbook resting on box. "...this machine is whisper quiet!"

Lastly, a woman is in a house. She's got kids screaming and jumping all around her, an infant crying in a baby swing clicking right next to her. She's raising her voice over the commotion with a strained smile "...and I tell you what, it's not just beautiful -- it's so quiet you'd hardly know it was on!"


wolfen

[wilburguy]

PoisonTooth-

I am one with the actual problem. As I stated earlier, I have no problem with the right side fan being on. The problem is that my right side fan is so loud as to warrant comments from my wife cooking in the kitchen when I am in the living room. It is loud enough to disturb conversation in the same room, and WAY too loud to do digital audio work, which is what I do for a living and what I bought it for. My 550 is not that loud even when the back fan is on high speed.

I do expect that this machine needs a serious cooling system. I have no problem with the multispeed fan in the back stepping up in speed as the CPU load intensifies. This back fan can get pretty loud too, but this is to be expected, especially when beating on it with PhotoShop, or watching movies.

FWIW_ I've talked to 3 tech support people, escalated it to 2 product specialists, and sent it to Tekserve in NYC. They all towed the Apple party line, that if the fan is running, there is no issue. I had to call the director of Customer Relations at Apple Corporate before I got someone to take my complaint seriously. She has sent it to an actual Apple repair facility for evaluation/repair.

BTW- at least 2 folks have sent their noisy 1Ghz PBooks to Apple, had the mother board replaced and the problem fixed. There are folks who have to put their ear down to the computer to hear the right side fan. So, there are definately some bad/noisy machines out there and they can obviously be fixed.

It's just like Apple denying that there was a paint blistering problem on older TiBooks. "We don't warranty cosmetic issues" they said for a year and a half. Just recently Apple fessed up to the problem and have authorized warranty repair of the paint problem.

[hippy]

Originally posted by PoisonTooth:
Look, I don't doubt that some of you have serious problems with your fans, but people like hippy are ACTIVELY TRYING to convice themselves they have a problem.

I'd be very interested to know how many of you have the fan problem versus how many just think you do.

Oh am I...Doh...thanks for clearing that one up for me. I must have imagined the whole damn thing.....yippee it's not loud any more ! Thanks Dude!

If you don't have the problem...don't read the damn thread !

[CyberPet]

Well, I'm not trying to convince myself it's a problem. Becuase there is a problem!

I came on to this discussion board BECAUESE of the problem I had to see if I were alone or if I had fellow "sufferers" that shared the same problem.

I've found that those of us who have both fan running all the time are the ones that DOES have the problem, those who don't have both fan running all the time is probably having a "normal" PowerBook since the fans should kick in now and then to cool the computer, right?!

Did you see my temperature test? Do you think it's valid for both fans running at 27-31�C? (that's below body temperature). Messuring the CORE CPU temp.

I seriously think there's something wrong with fans running this much when the CPU core temp isn't that high.

[hippy]

Originally posted by CyberPet:
Well, I'm not trying to convince myself it's a problem. Becuase there is a problem!

I came on to this discussion board BECAUESE of the problem I had to see if I were alone or if I had fellow "sufferers" that shared the same problem.

I've found that those of us who have both fan running all the time are the ones that DOES have the problem, those who don't have both fan running all the time is probably having a "normal" PowerBook since the fans should kick in now and then to cool the computer, right?!

Did you see my temperature test? Do you think it's valid for both fans running at 27-31�C? (that's below body temperature). Messuring the CORE CPU temp.

I seriously think there's something wrong with fans running this much when the CPU core temp isn't that high.

They are interesting finding Petra keep hassling Apple re: your PowerBook I am hoping to get mine recognised as DOA....

[photoeditor]

My obvservation is that Apple is probably pretty close to the mark with the center (processor) fan, but the right side fan by the AC input runs a tremendous amount and seems to me to be blowing out cool air half the time. The fan doesn't run much with the computer on battery -- but it is extremely aggressive on mains power and generally will not shut off at all, once it's on, until the computer is shut down or goes to sleep -- even if that is set to take an hour with nothing else going.

You would expect the AC fan to be on permanently when the 65 watt capacity of the system is being taxed by a combination of CR-running, battery charging, Photoshop, Airport and bus-powered peripherals; but not when you're just doing some typing and the computer's barely drawing any power.

[Troll]

Originally posted by photoeditor:
My obvservation is that Apple is probably pretty close to the mark with the center (processor) fan, but the right side fan by the AC input runs a tremendous amount and seems to me to be blowing out cool air half the time. The fan doesn't run much with the computer on battery -- but it is extremely aggressive on mains power and generally will not shut off at all, once it's on, until the computer is shut down or goes to sleep -- even if that is set to take an hour with nothing else going.

You would expect the AC fan to be on permanently when the 65 watt capacity of the system is being taxed by a combination of CR-running, battery charging, Photoshop, Airport and bus-powered peripherals; but not when you're just doing some typing and the computer's barely drawing any power.

Of course, all of this could be confirmed if a few of us would boot into OS9 and start recording the temperatures at which the fans kick in. If SeanYepez and the other creatures who assert that they have "normal" PowerBooks tell us that their fans are kicking in at higher temperatures, then we know there's a problem with those that kick in earlier, right?

I've been suggesting for a few days now that we get some temperature marks. Come on guys ...

[CyberPet]

Originally posted by Troll:


Of course, all of this could be confirmed if a few of us would boot into OS9 and start recording the temperatures at which the fans kick in. If SeanYepez and the other creatures who assert that they have "normal" PowerBooks tell us that their fans are kicking in at higher temperatures, then we know there's a problem with those that kick in earlier, right?

I've been suggesting for a few days now that we get some temperature marks. Come on guys ...

Good idea! If it's working in OS 9 it should work to boot into 9 and to the test with the software I found.

Here's a direct link btw: Jeremy's Bundle CSM
(install the G3 & G3 Temperature CSM as it's the only one working properly).

[hippy]

Hey Sean,

are you still enjoying fan free computing? and If so could you help us all out and try the fan temp. program?

Thanks

[adamberti]

Originally posted by CyberPet:
These are the results I got from the three computers. Sorry I'm not posting it in Farenheit, but if you have the calculator in OS X you can convert the temps.

1GHz Supderdrive, core temp: 27 to 31�C
667 MHz PBG4, core temp: 27 to 39�C
PIsmo (400MHz) core temp: 39 to 47�C

I was running a heavy duty file in all machines (like 50 MB) in Photoshop, made some clouds, crosstitch and gaussian blur to see if I could choke the processor.

These temps seemed lower than I thought they would, so I booted into OS 9 and installed this, I was rather curious as to temperatures. My PB 1GHz SD ran between 35C (95F) and 51C (123F) after my PB had been on a few hours, but checked the max temp after I ran itunes and played a DVD. I'm using it on a wood desk in a room thats proabably at 22C (unsure F). I'll shut her down to cool off and check fans later.

I'm getting more and more worried about my PB, just had the adapter problem twice today. Have to unplug it from the wall. And If I unplug the adapter from the PB or plug it in sometimes iTunes goes quiet but still plays ithe song, and sometimes if I plug it back in or unplug it, sound comes back. When iTunes goes quiet everything else seems to have audio, the whole computer isnt quiet. I just checked, this only happens in OS X 10.2.2, not 9.2.2. My right fan stays on a long time too, and I've had some DVD problems.....Lastly I tried to boot up AppleCare CD (with TechTool) and cant, I get a kernal panic. Go figure.

Not sure what to do...Calling AppleCare tomorrow..

-Adam

[seanyepez]

Originally posted by hippy:
Hey Sean,

are you still enjoying fan free computing? and If so could you help us all out and try the fan temp. program?

Thanks

I've managed to get my fan to come on. It came on while I was updating to 10.2.2. I placed the machine on a leather chair and left it working for a few minutes. When I came back, both fans were on. The bottom of the machine was pretty hot. Upon moving it to my lap, the loud fan went off in two or three minutes. The quieter fan stayed on until the machine finished installing the update (under full CPU utilization).

[seanyepez]

Note that AMD recommends you keep your Athlon cooler than 180 degrees. Your machines are fine from a strictly technical perspective. They might not be quiet, but running the machine at 120 to 160 degrees will not cook the processor.

[Infinite Loop]

Update.

Finally, I've managed to convince Apple Asia this fan behaviour is a problem, and they will replace my logic-board. Engineer who evaluate my PowerBook for 3 hours said it might be fan controller issue and they will try to fix it by replacing logic-board. Unfortunately, logic-board is out of stock, I gotta wait till Monday. Let's see what happens.

BTW, logic-board is not mother board, right?

[seanyepez]

I think they're one in the same.

[schalliol]

any word?

[CyberPet]

One might think I never sleep (but I do), I found this interesting post at Apple Discussion forum by Andy Saurin1:

Andy Saurin1's "dirty fix" for fan noise

Not sure if it works yet, going to find my torx screwdriver and have a go at it. Won't void any warranty to tighten some screws anyway.

[hippy]

Originally posted by CyberPet:
One might think I never sleep (but I do), I found this interesting post at Apple Discussion forum by Andy Saurin1:

Andy Saurin1's "dirty fix" for fan noise

Not sure if it works yet, going to find my torx screwdriver and have a go at it. Won't void any warranty to tighten some screws anyway.

doesnt work for me...my right side fan is still nearly constantly on....

[tritonus]

Originally posted by CyberPet:
One might think I never sleep (but I do), I found this interesting post at Apple Discussion forum by Andy Saurin1:

Andy Saurin1's "dirty fix" for fan noise

Not sure if it works yet, going to find my torx screwdriver and have a go at it. Won't void any warranty to tighten some screws anyway.

Tell us if it helped, please. Sounds too good to be true...

[CyberPet]

It was too good to be true!

Only diffrence I noticed was that the fan never came on when I had turned on the computer with no other software running than OS X on battery. I had about 1 hour 20 min left of the battery when I tried this and during that time neither of the fans came on. But then I didn't even touch the computer (what good use is that?).

As soon as the battery was depleted and the PowerBook went to sleep I plugged in the AC and woke the machine up. About 4 minutes the less loud fan started to run.

As soon as I opened Mail.app and Chimera the second, louder fan came on (after 3 minutes) and the fan has kept running since then. I've even charged the batteries fully and run once again on just battery power for 3 hours, the second, louder, fan has never turned off... I even let the computer be alone for an hour (with battery only), but the second fan didn't even come off then when I wasn't using the computer!

So I guess it's back to the drawing board and more calls to Apple. *sighs*

[flanders]

Well this is all very interesting....did you happen to take the cover off or just tighten the screws? Reason that I ask is that I could really hear the fan when I had my tibook on at first and I thought, well, it's what everyone's been talking about.

Last night though, I went to put my Airport card in and after closing the case back up my fans almost never came on. Matter of fact, I had my ear to the machine just to see if I could hear anything! I _think_ the back fan was on, but it was too quiet to tell.

So then I read the "dirty fix" today...coincidence?
Well, I think it might be, but that's quite a difference in sound level at least if not fan activity. Before the fan was running (the right fan) loud and after just a few minutes of use (not doing much except setting system preferences) and last night after putting in the Airport card the right fan never came on even after a couple of hours doing updates to 10.2.2, quicktime and fixing up the dock (over airport too.)

[tritonus]

I just called AppleSupport. They told me I will get a replacement, so my Ti 867 ouviously was given DOA status. It was picked up on Wednesday, the new one shoud arrive today. Not bad here in Switzerland

Hope that it is a post 6/12 model and that pixels are okay. I will keep you posted.

[kerl]

Congrats tritonus. I was less lucky. They are replacing it, but it takes far too much time. I think this is because they don't have the 1GHz machine on stock. And because I order in the AppleStore (I was one of the lucky guys who got the 20% reduction of the neptun program which was stopped by apple after only a few days).

So you didn't try the 'dirty hack' thingy?

I'm wondering wether there are other users who have successfully 'repaired' their machins with this.

[tritonus]

I just got it back. Not the new one, but my box with the DOA seal on it. I will contact my dealer to replace it in the shop. And I will try to pick a box with serial number QT249 or higher. Can anyone confirm the 6/12 rumor?

BTW, I didn't try the 'dirty hack'. It was posted after I applied DOA. Congrats on your neptun deal, must have been a bargain than.

[tritonus]

My Dealer has only QT248 in stock, meaning from the same production as my DOA. I would have to wait until after X-Mas

Can anybody confirm the post 6/12 production date modification? Please?

Or we could do a litte inquiry, post your S/N and fan status, like this:

my QT248xxx DOA

Thanks!

[s'more]

Not all Powerbooks G4 before QT2R8 have the fan problem.
Mine is QT247 and the fans don't kick on all the time. Of course they do under important CPU activity.

[Troll]

Originally posted by tritonus:
My Dealer has only QT248 in stock, meaning from the same production as my DOA. I would have to wait until after X-Mas

Can anybody confirm the post 6/12 production date modification? Please?

Or we could do a litte inquiry, post your S/N and fan status, like this:

my QT248xxx DOA

Thanks!

Tritonus, I can't find anywhere in this thread what your computer was actually suffering from. I have an 867 too. The fans don't stay on, but they come on very quickly and stay on for absolute ages. If I have Entourage open in the background and Chimera running, the fans come on after a few minutes. They do eventually go off again. Is this what yours was doing?

[flanders]

FWIW, mine was just bought 12/16 at the local apple store (lenox square, atlanta) and it's QT243...guess it was there a while. On the upside, my fan doesn't seem to have issues and no bad pixels.

[CyberPet]

More updates:

Been in Contact with Apple *again* and I've gotten a transport box. This little puppy is going to Germany over the hollidays for a check-up.

Lucky thing, I have to stay home for Christmas and my computer get to travel. Very unfair!

I sure hope Apple finds a problem with it, replace something or whatever, so that the second fan stops running absolutely ALL the time.

For the rest of you, I wish you a happy holliday.

[Infinite Loop]

Originally posted by Infinite Loop:
Update.

Finally, I've managed to convince Apple Asia this fan behaviour is a problem, and they will replace my logic-board. Engineer who evaluate my PowerBook for 3 hours said it might be fan controller issue and they will try to fix it by replacing logic-board. Unfortunately, logic-board is out of stock, I gotta wait till Monday. Let's see what happens.

BTW, logic-board is not mother board, right?

Another update.

Got my logic board replaced today and guess what.

Fan behaves exactly the same way... Right side fan came on after 10 min of light use of net browsing, center fan came along together shortly after that and stays ALL THE TIME.

I'm really disappointed and frustrated. This is the first Apple PowerBook gave me this much a stress. I've already called Apple center told them I'll be there on Monday again.

I'm seriously thinking going back to 800 DVI.

[bamchum]

The way I see it there are two ways this can go at this point:

1) Apple offers a fix, probably a quiet firmware upgrade.
2) Apple does what it has done so many times (Lombard/Pismo screen hinges anyone?) and publicly denies a problem while privately offering customers who compain enough a fix "as a one-time courtesy." They do this all the time.

There is a third option, of course, which is that the fan behavior is entirely normal (as I was told by a tier 2 tech talking to an Apple engineer). But if this were the case, you'd expect Apple to say as much in the Apple Discussion forums thread devoted to this issue. It would put a stop to a lot of the complaining.

As it is, that thread is the hottest thing on the PowerBook>Usage forum and still no word from Apple.

[wilburguy]

Well kids, the story of Will's "blow dryer" right side fan has come to an end. I got my PowerBook back from Apple repair. They replaced the logic board and I'm happy to say that the right side fan no longer comes on for no reason and is very quiet. Very quiet. I've been running it all day with the power adapter plugged in and it only came on when I was both downloading from a usenet group and watching an mpg movies with IE and Mail open. It came on quietly and gently blew warm air. When the movie was over, it ran for a few minutes and turned off.

And they all lived happily ever after.

[bamchum]

Originally posted by wilburguy:
Well kids, the story of Will's "blow dryer" right side fan has come to an end. I got my PowerBook back from Apple repair. They replaced the logic board and I'm happy to say that the right side fan no longer comes on for no reason and is very quiet. Very quiet. I've been running it all day with the power adapter plugged in and it only came on when I was both downloading from a usenet group and watching an mpg movies with IE and Mail open. It came on quietly and gently blew warm air. When the movie was over, it ran for a few minutes and turned off.

And they all lived happily ever after.

Please tell us what magic words you said to the Apple techs to get them to admit there was a problem and take your machine in for a repair.

I'm getting stonewalled.

[tritonus]

Originally posted by Troll:


Tritonus, I can't find anywhere in this thread what your computer was actually suffering from. I have an 867 too. The fans don't stay on, but they come on very quickly and stay on for absolute ages. If I have Entourage open in the background and Chimera running, the fans come on after a few minutes. They do eventually go off again. Is this what yours was doing?

True, I didn't post it so far. With my 867, the right fan (near power button) never shut off, even when not using the computer. So that was enough to DOA the machine. They wrote "unusually noisy fan" on the form.

[wilburguy]

I called tech support three times and escalated to product specialists twice. Only one of those folks suggested that i send it in for evaluation. So I sent it to Tekserve in NYC who is is an authorized Apple tech place and have been great in the past. After checking it out there, they told me that if the fan was working, there was no problem. So I got pissed and called Apple Corporate Customer Relations. A very responsive woman called me back, had my PowerBook shipped from Tekserve to Apple, where the logic board was replaced.

So, If you get no love from tech support, call Apple Corporate. There IS a problem with noisy right side fans and there IS a fix.

[bamchum]

Originally posted by wilburguy:
So I got pissed and called Apple Corporate Customer Relations. A very responsive woman called me back, had my PowerBook shipped from Tekserve to Apple, where the logic board was replaced.

So, If you get no love from tech support, call Apple Corporate. There IS a problem with noisy right side fans and there IS a fix.

Problem is, I'm not a corporation so how can I call Apple Corporate Customer relations.

I talked to tier 1 and tier 2 techs today for the third time. The tier 2 tech said that word had come down from on high "within the last week" that it is "not a problem" for the right-side fan to come on and stay on all the time and that that is the way the machine is designed. When I pointed out that others have had their logic boards replaced, the tier 2 tech said that those were "unnecessary repairs." When I pointed out that the people who had these supposedly unnecessary repairs were reporting that they fixed the problem, he said that they would no doubt have problems with overheating later on.

I basically got nowhere with him. I did point out that, if this is in fact normal behavior, Apple could do itself a big favor by saying so either in the Apple Discussion forum (where this is a hot topic) or in a Knowledge Base article.

Needless to say, I don't believe I'll ever see any such thing.

I'll call customer relations on Monday. And then I write to Phil Schiller.

[wilburguy]

FWIW- my prroblem was not with the right side fan being on, but the loudness of the fan.

[hippy]

guy's have just recieved my DOA replacement...

Charging and installing at the moment and the rtight side fan is on...so time will tell...I'll keep ya posted

ps it's a week 50 model