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sek929 · Oct 4, 2005, 07:20 PM

Cody it seems you don't "need" an SUV at all. You would be better off getting a wagon or minivan if gas prices really bothered you. Just because you have 4 kids doesn't mean you need an SUV.

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Volkswagen Tuareg Sports Utility Vehicle

Opel Combo

Do you really "need" the SUV?

You're not gonna fit five kids and a couple of dogs in those things.

Cody, the commies and hippies are gonna be pissed at you whatever you get. So make your next one hurt - make it a Hummer 1 Wagon.

Cody Dawg · Oct 4, 2005, 07:38 PM

Yes, I DO need an SUV.

Some of you are such asses to tell me what I need or don't need to drive.

(You're right Doofy.)

I have a horse trailer I pull. And a boat.

You gonna tell me how I'm going to pull a horse trailer or a boat trailer with a minivan?

GET A LIFE.

analogika · Oct 4, 2005, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Yes people can drive whatever the hell they like. It’s a free country

Well, it ain't free gas now, is it.

Cody Dawg · Oct 4, 2005, 07:41 PM

You want to buy us a Volkswagon Touraeg?

Gee, thanks!

I spent about $15K less than that on my Suburban - no, make that $20K.

I pull a horse trailer and a boat trailer and a minivan doesn't haul 4 tons the last I knew.

analogika · Oct 4, 2005, 07:41 PM

moot

dampeoples · Oct 4, 2005, 07:54 PM

I've got two SUV's a minivan and a car, too bad I need the room in the SUV more often than not, the car gets slightly better mileage, but lacks the room.
The minivan is a dream, we used to tote the kids in the SUV, but with three rows of seating, and all the seperation from fighting, it's like driving a bus

Fyre4ce · 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I DO "need" an SUV.

I have FOUR - count 'em - four children. My friend's son is staying here - I have two 13 year olds in my house right now. I do animal rescue and I am constantly hauling those things around.

Do I grimace when I fill up the tank? Yes.

But do I have a choice? No.

Don't kid yourself. You have a choice. You'd get by just fine with a minivan, which would be cheaper to buy and cheaper to own than an SUV.

Think about it - what's the difference between a minivan and an SUV? SUV's have higher ride heights, chassis designed for towing and off-roading, and bigger engines. That's about it.

There are a few legitimate uses for an SUV, including towing large objects, hauling seriously heavy cargo, and off-roading.

The reason SUV's became so popular in the american market is because of the image. Before SUV's, there was the minivan. Why buys minivans? Parents! What does a minivan scream to everyone who sees it? "I have kids!" which means, "I'm unavailable!" In contrast, what does a 2-seater Ferrari scream to everyone who sees it? "I have money!", and also, "I'm single!" which is exactly why rich guys buy Ferraris.

So, when SUV's became popular, automakers went to great lengths to groom an "outdoorsy" image for them. Commercials always showed (still do) SUV's climbing mountains, fording streams, running through mud, etc. Ford even called their SUV division "Ford Outfitters" and had cute trees in the logo. So, for people with kids, the SUV was a great vehicle. It provided all the seating and cargo room as a minivan, but without the dreaded minivan image. Of course, it also provided a beefy frame, large towing capacity, a huge engine, and raised ride height. But, who cares? Gas is cheap. Ironically, the "compatible with nature" image that automakers continue to pitch is quite far from the truth- in fact, especially when used as commuter vehicles, SUV's are more damaging to the environment than cars.

Cody Dawg: Seriously, when was the last time you climbed a mountain or forded a river in your SUV? Something tells me you'd get along just fine with a minivan. Would I want to drive a minivan? Hell no. But, then again, I'm a single guy.

Why do people think that SUV sales are dropping as gas prices go up? It's because people don't NEED SUV's to conduct their lives. Personally, I think there area lot of positive effects coming from higher energy prices. People are trading in their SUV's for small, fuel-efficient commuter vehicles, and people are finding other ways to save energy.

Also, I don't see what credit card debt has to do with the whole thing (except indirectly) but I don't have any credit card debt.

I don't mean to offend anyone with my remarks, just make a point. Think about what I said... and I know you'll find it to be true.

EDIT:

Cody Dawg, I didn't realize you frequently tow 8000 pound trailers. In this case, sure, it's legitimate for you to own an SUV.

BUT, this does not change my argument. Realize that you are in the minority of SUV owners. The majority do not tow large trailers, or use any of the other capabilities offered by an SUV. I still stand by my previous remarks.

quote68 · 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I DO "need" an SUV.

No you don't. People had 4 kids and dogs and went camping before SUVs were around. You WANT one. There's a huge difference.

I have FOUR - count 'em - four children. My friend's son is staying here - I have two 13 year olds in my house right now. I do animal rescue and I am constantly hauling those things around.

Big ****ing deal, what do you want, a congrats on getting knocked up so easily?! My wife's family had 4 kids also, and they made due with a civic and an accord. They also went camping very often.

Do I grimace when I fill up the tank? Yes.

But do I have a choice? No.

You sound like a dumb

. You do have a choice. SUVs are designed to OFF ROAD and TOW THINGS, you don't do either. The only thing you require is interior space. Get a freakin wagon and enjoy significantly better MPG, handling, braking, and safety. Or remain unsafe, annoying to see around, and dangerous. Poser.

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yes, I DO need an SUV.

Some of you are such asses to tell me what I need or don't need to drive.

(You're right Doofy.)

I have a horse trailer I pull. And a boat.

You gonna tell me how I'm going to pull a horse trailer or a boat trailer with a minivan?

GET A LIFE.

Depending on the tongue wait of hte boat, a minivan could probably do it. What's the tongue weight on the horse trailer? Give me some numbers and I'll dig up a vehicle less obnoxious than the gas wasting monstrosity you drive now.

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 08:23 PM

Pendergast · Oct 4, 2005, 08:32 PM

The faster we'll get rid of that polluting oil, the better we'll all be I say.

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Fyre4ce

In contrast, what does a 2-seater Ferrari scream to everyone who sees it? "I have money!"

No. It says "I couldn't afford the 4-seater".

Originally Posted by quote68

No you don't. People had 4 kids and dogs and went camping before SUVs were around. You WANT one. There's a huge difference.

Big ****ing deal, what do you want, a congrats on getting knocked up so easily?! My wife's family had 4 kids also, and they made due with a civic and an accord. They also went camping very often.

Well, there's been seatbelt laws since then (at least here). It's no longer legal to pop thousands of kids on the back seat.

Originally Posted by quote68

You are a dumb

. You do have a choice. SUVs are designed to OFF ROAD and TOW THINGS, you don't do either. The only thing you require is interior space.

Did you not read the bit about her towing things?
You say she has a choice. Correct. She made that choice and got a Suburban. Now STFU.

Originally Posted by quote68

Depending on the tongue wait of hte boat, a minivan could probably do it. What's the tongue weight on the horse trailer? Give me some numbers and I'll dig up a vehicle less obnoxious than the gas wasting monstrosity you drive now.

Does that come with or without the throwing-knife wielding loony?

Oh. And you know towing capacity is also related to wheelbase, not just torque and tongue-weight, right?

JoshuaZ · Oct 4, 2005, 08:38 PM

As someone who lived for quite a while in the upper midwest, where winter sucks, and you need to move lots of big things (I lived in the city). SUVs are rather handy, but then again I did know many people who had them and never needed them.

So the breakdown is: Some people need them, some don`t.

smacintush · Oct 4, 2005, 08:38 PM

Arguing with Rob is like training a cat: in the end it just frustrates the trainer and the cat is still a retard.

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Well, there's been seatbelt laws since then (at least here). It's no longer legal to pop thousands of kids on the back seat.

An accord and civic can hold more people than a suburban.

Did you not read the bit about her towing things?
You says she has a choice. Correct. She made that choice and got a Suburban. Now STFU.

Big deal. I have a boat. I'm going to tow it with my dads 1980s station wagon. Not every boat is a 30ft + yacht. What kind of vessel is it Cody? As for your horse trailer, what is the tongue weight?

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Arguing with Rob is like training a cat: in the end it just frustrates the trainer and the cat is still a retard.

I'll thank you to not disparage cats. Mine are trained way better than Rob could ever be.

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

As someone who lived for quite a while in the upper midwest, where winter sucks, and you need to move lots of big things (I lived in the city). SUVs are rather handy, but then again I did know many people who had them and never needed them.

So the breakdown is: HARDLY ANY people need them, MOST don`t.

Fixed.

A rarely known fact: Winters, families, and the need to occasionally move a large object all existed before 1980.

- Rob

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by quote68

An accord and civic can hold more people than a suburban.

There's eight seats in an accord or Civic? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by quote68

Big deal. I have a boat.

No. You have a dingy.

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'll thank you to not disparage cats. Mine are trained way better than Rob could ever be.

I can drive stick.

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

There's eight seats in an accord or Civic? I don't think so.

Nope. 10. Each car holds 5.

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by quote68

I can drive stick.

Whoop de do.

Where I am, everyone can drive stick.

Fyre4ce · Oct 4, 2005, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

No. It says "I couldn't afford the 4-seater".

Yeah, wink all you want, but you KNOW I speak the truth!

Pendergast · Oct 4, 2005, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Arguing with Rob is like training a cat: in the end it just frustrates the trainer and the cat is still a retard.

The reason why cats appear dumb to us is that actually, contrary to dogs, they do not live in packs. They therefore could not care for a leader, which is not the case with dogs, who need to be constantly lead. Cats are very independant by nature, and training them is quite a chore because of that.

Please go back to your debate now.

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by quote68

Nope. 10. Each car holds 5.

So you're suggesting that Cody gets two cars and perhaps trains one of her dogs to drive the one which she isn't in? So, for a family outing the two cars (the one she's in and the one Katie's driving) would still get better combined mileage than just taking her Suburban?

Fyre4ce · Oct 4, 2005, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by quote68

Fixed.

A rarely known fact: Winters, families, and the need to occasionally move a large object all existed before 1980.

- Rob

Amen.

Here we go again...

sek929 · Oct 4, 2005, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

GET A LIFE.

You didn't mention earlier that you use it for towing, hence my reply.

I think you need to calm down.

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Fyre4ce

Yeah, wink all you want, but you KNOW I speak the truth!

Heh. Guy down the road from me constantly says "I have a Ferrari" when he's losing an argument (yes, really - he's a right a-hole). At which point I'll laugh and mention that it's only a 348. Which shuts him up some.

(anyone who didn't follow that, the 348 is a joke in the Ferrari community - it's got more Fiat bits than most Fiats).

sek929 · Oct 4, 2005, 08:54 PM

This thread is doomed to fail. I drive big vehicles for a living, if you complain about the gas then you shouldn't be driving an SUV in the first place. Those who need them can easily justify the cost of gas with what they need the vehicle to accomplish.

I'll be picking up my 99 Tacoma 4 cyl. in a few days, gooooobyeee V6 gas guzzling.

smacintush · Oct 4, 2005, 08:54 PM

<--- cat lover. I just have no problem selling them down the river to make a point.

Originally Posted by Pendergast

The reason why cats appear dumb to us is that actually, contrary to dogs, they do not live in packs. They therefore could not care for a leader, which is not the case with dogs, who need to be constantly lead. Cats are very independant by nature, and training them is quite a chore because of that.

Please go back to your debate now.

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by quote68

A rarely known fact: Winters, families, and the need to occasionally move a large object all existed before 1980.

Actually...

Since the early 80's both the social fabric and the infrastructure have changed some.
Back then, families used to "hunker down" and stay in when the snow came instead of going out as normal.
It's also very probable that the increased cost (due to inflation, etc.) of keeping roads clear during a snowfall has led to some authorities cutting back on those services.

dampeoples · Oct 4, 2005, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Fyre4ce

Amen.

Here we go again...

The Suburban was introduced somewhere around 1936.

sek929 · Oct 4, 2005, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Actually...

Since the early 80's both the social fabric and the infrastructure have changed some.
Back then, families used to "hunker down" and stay in when the snow came instead of going out as normal.

To bad now its the "I have an SUV so I can go 70 in the snow on the highway" crowd that make me lose respect for SUVs even more. I say people should stay home more when it snows unless they really need to go out and get something. Otherwise I'll just laugh at all the huge 4x4s I see in snow drifts in the winter.

Also, last winter was record snowfall for the Cape, somehow I managed to get around in a FWD Dodge

sek929 · Oct 4, 2005, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by dampeoples

The Suburban was introduced somewhere around 1936.

And even in 1988 it didn't have third row seat since it was mostly used for its "utility" not to haul children to soccer practice,

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Also, last winter was record snowfall for the Cape, somehow I managed to get around in a FWD Dodge

The Cape expects it so the authorities are prepared. Other places may not be so (example, half a millimetre of snow on UK roads and the whole country grinds to a halt).

smacintush · Oct 4, 2005, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

And even in 1988 it didn't have third row seat since it was mostly used for its "utility" not to haul children to soccer practice,

The first Suburban had seating for eight.

GM Site.

sek929 · Oct 4, 2005, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

The first Suburban had seating for eight.

GM Site.

I stand corrected.

Fyre4ce · Oct 4, 2005, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Heh. Guy down the road from me constantly says "I have a Ferrari" when he's losing an argument (yes, really - he's a right a-hole). At which point I'll laugh and mention that it's only a 348. Which shuts him up some.

(anyone who didn't follow that, the 348 is a joke in the Ferrari community - it's got more Fiat bits than most Fiats).

But it's still more expensive than most people can afford. Why do people wear gold and platinum jewelry? For exactly the same reason. Economists call these items "status goods."

My argument still stands, and you know it.

SVass · Oct 4, 2005, 09:11 PM

I don't care if Cody or anyone else drives an SUV. QUIT ASKING ME TO PAY FOR IT. Why should those who buy a six thousand pound vehicle get a special tax deduction? Why should we subsidize their gasoline acquisition in Iraq with fake elections and an army? (What does "voters" mean and why does it have two different meanings in the same sentence?) Let her use the horse to tow the boat and the car! sam

sek929 · Oct 4, 2005, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

The Cape expects it so the authorities are prepared. Other places may not be so (example, half a millimetre of snow on UK roads and the whole country grinds to a halt).

Ummm nope. In fact MA used up its entire budget months before the blizzard. Our snowfall is tricky here, we don't aways get huge storms (like MI) so we don't have the system set up in case of one. Last winter put everyone on their ass, just to start working on a jobsite I'd have to shovel snow for a couple of hours first. And yes, I made it to the jobsite in my FWD car. I got stuck a few times, nothing I couldn't handle all by myself.

But yes, other places are clueless when snow hits. You'd think the snow rots the brains' of drivers the way they speed around on ice.

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

So you're suggesting that Cody gets two cars and perhaps trains one of her dogs to drive the one which she isn't in? So, for a family outing the two cars (the one she's in and the one Katie's driving) would still get better combined mileage than just taking her Suburban?

I knew you'd try something like that. First off, I'm assuming she has a husband. That means you can have two drivers. However, 95% of the time you arent going to need everybody with you when you need to drive somewhere, so the accord or civic would get MUCH better MPG than if she had been using a suburban. As for the combined mileage, it'd probably be about the same. But the times you'd need to use both cars would be very infrequently, so most of hte time it'd be getting much muhc much much better mpg.

Edit: If she had ONLY 4 kids, and no spouse, a 5 seater accord or civic would be fine. If she does have a spouse, then a wagon with seating in the rear would do fine. Not sure if the accord has flip up extra seating or not.

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Heh. Guy down the road from me constantly says "I have a Ferrari" when he's losing an argument (yes, really - he's a right a-hole). At which point I'll laugh and mention that it's only a 348. Which shuts him up some.

(anyone who didn't follow that, the 348 is a joke in the Ferrari community - it's got more Fiat bits than most Fiats).

It's still a sweet car. >shrug<

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Fyre4ce

But it's still more expensive than most people can afford.

Narh. 348's and 412's are dirt cheap around here - you can pick a used one up for less than a new BMW 330.

Originally Posted by Fyre4ce

Why do people wear gold and platinum jewelry? For exactly the same reason. Economists call these items "status goods."

My argument still stands, and you know it.

Yeah yeah. Spoilsport.

smacintush · Oct 4, 2005, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by quote68

I knew you'd try something like that. First off, I'm assuming she has a husband. That means you can have two drivers. However, 95% of the time you arent going to need everybody with you when you need to drive somewhere, so the accord or civic would get MUCH better MPG than if she had been using a suburban. As for the combined mileage, it'd probably be about the same. But the times you'd need to use both cars would be very infrequently, so most of hte time it'd be getting much muhc much much better mpg.

Cool! I didn't realize that civics and accords had such great towing capacity!

Mastrap · Oct 4, 2005, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Actually...

Since the early 80's both the social fabric and the infrastructure have changed some.
Back then, families used to "hunker down" and stay in when the snow came instead of going out as normal.
It's also very probable that the increased cost (due to inflation, etc.) of keeping roads clear during a snowfall has led to some authorities cutting back on those services.

Huh? Where you live, there is no winter, apparently

Life in Toronto changes drastically when winter arrives. People drive a fraction of the mileage they drive in summer. No weekend trips to the cottage, no outings to the country. It makes a big difference.

Cody Dawg · Oct 4, 2005, 09:19 PM

People who try to tell other people WHICH VEHICLE to drive are fascist a$$holes.

Stop trying to tell the rest of us what to do. Dumb democrats.

Fyre4ce · Oct 4, 2005, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Actually...

Since the early 80's both the social fabric and the infrastructure have changed some.
Back then, families used to "hunker down" and stay in when the snow came instead of going out as normal.
It's also very probable that the increased cost (due to inflation, etc.) of keeping roads clear during a snowfall has led to some authorities cutting back on those services.

I'm not buying your argument at face value. Data? References? Or is it just a hypothesis?

I live in the north east US - I know all about snow storms. I have a small FWD vehicle, and there are maybe one or two days per year (average) that I can't drive because the rate of snowfall. But, this is mostly related to the fact that I don't have snow tires. My vehicle, with snow tires, would almost equal the snow performance of most SUV's, and an AWD car, like a Subaru, with snow tires, will equal or outperform most SUV's in the snow.

The snow plows around here are pretty good. I have a pretty hard time believing that the city says, "screw it, people have SUV's, we don't need to plow the roads." Besides, it would be cheaper for everyone to pitch in on the taxes and get good plowing if it didn't exist, than to all buy SUV's and pay for gas, especially if they drive the SUV around all year as a commuter vehicle.

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by dampeoples

The Suburban was introduced somewhere around 1936.

The only people who had suburbans before 1980 where redneck slack jawed yokels, not the average suburban american.

Doofy · Oct 4, 2005, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by quote68

I knew you'd try something like that. First off, I'm assuming she has a husband. That means you can have two drivers. However, 95% of the time you arent going to need everybody with you when you need to drive somewhere, so the accord or civic would get MUCH better MPG than if she had been using a suburban. As for the combined mileage, it'd probably be about the same. But the times you'd need to use both cars would be very infrequently, so most of hte time it'd be getting much muhc much much better mpg.

And which car would tow the horses that they were taking to the gymkhana? Or the boat they were going to spend the day in?

quote68 · Oct 4, 2005, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

To bad now its the "I have an SUV so I can go 70 in the snow on the highway" crowd that make me lose respect for SUVs even more. I say people should stay home more when it snows unless they really need to go out and get something. Otherwise I'll just laugh at all the huge 4x4s I see in snow drifts in the winter.

Also, last winter was record snowfall for the Cape, somehow I managed to get around in a FWD Dodge

I enjoy passing the SUVs stuck in ditches in my low slung AWD quasi sporty vehicle. I usually say hi to them with one finger.