[DBursey]

From BBC technology news:

Microsoft suffers Longhorn loss

Pirated versions of Microsoft's next generation operating system are on sale in Malaysia, more than a year before the official release date.

The software, codenamed Longhorn, is on sale in Johor Baru, a city in southern Malaysia, costing less than $2. A Microsoft spokesman told the BBC it believed pirates obtained one of 8,000 trial copies of Longhorn handed out to programmers at the Professional Developers Conference held in Los Angeles in October.

The software is still in an early stage of development known as pre-alpha.

The company says it would be extremely risky to load the still unstable operating system onto a home computer.

In other words, ya gets what ya pays for, and in some parts $2 buys a lot of instability!

For Bill the question remains: Can MS get a handle on their many and varied security issues? Aren't credibility and share price at stake?

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by DBursey:
In other words, ya gets what ya pays for, and in some parts $2 buys a lot of instability!

For Bill the question remains: Can MS get a handle on their many and varied security issues? Aren't credibility and share price at stake? [/B]

"pre-alpha"

[Zimphire]

The company says it would be extremely risky to load the still unstable operating system onto a home computer

How is this any different than any other version of Windows?

[soul searching]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
"pre-alpha"

I've played with it. Seemed okay. Then again the only working application on it was IE.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

How is this any different than any other version of Windows? [/B]

How is any other version of Windows inherently unstable? I'm still waiting to have a BSOD or any type of crash on my XP install

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by soul searching:
I've played with it. Seemed okay. Then again the only working application on it was IE.

I thought it was funny that it took the taskbar three minutes to be able to respond to user input. Couldn't get networking to work either so Internet Explorer was useless to me.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
How is any other version of Windows inherently unstable?

AHhahaha

[The Godfather]

Originally posted by soul searching:
[Longhorn] seemed okay.

Must be the best Windows ever!

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by The Godfather:
Must be the best Windows ever!

If Microsoft managed to squeeze a "just OK" out of someone, I think we're screwed.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
AHhahaha

Don't give me a real response or anything. Sigh, I guess you really don't have anything to say, huh?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
How is any other version of Windows inherently unstable? I'm still waiting to have a BSOD or any type of crash on my XP install

Great, go lookm at my dad's Gateway. Only 6 months old, 3 installs of XP, and the damned thing crashes 2-3 times a day. Windows is just a steaming pile of sh!t.

[Beewee]

This is the funniest thing I have read all day.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Great, go lookm at my dad's Gateway. Only 6 months old, 3 installs of XP, and the damned thing crashes 2-3 times a day. Windows is just a steaming pile of sh!t.

What do you expect? It's a Gateway.

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
What do you expect? It's a Gateway.

Moooooo

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
Don't give me a real response or anything. Sigh, I guess you really don't have anything to say, huh?

Windows hardly has a reputation for being a stable solid OS.

XP is going in the right direction. But it's not there yet.

Windows is still a bit Dodgy.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
What do you expect? It's a Gateway.

What is funny about this, I hear a variation of this from all the MS apologists.

"What do you expect, It's a Dell"
"What do you expect, it's a Compaq"
"What do you expect, it's a Sony"
"What do you expect, you installed it on a computer you built yourself"

I've heard all of them. What exactly is Windows supposed to run good on?

[Speckledstone]

First, the 'adorable' comment in the 'most you spent on "Art"' thread . And now this ^.
Who's writing for you today Zim?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Speckledstone:
First, the 'adorable' comment in the 'most you spent on "Art"' thread . And now this ^.
Who's writing for you today Zim?

I've been wearing my Christmas codpiece.

It makes me more jolly.

[driven]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
How is any other version of Windows inherently unstable? I'm still waiting to have a BSOD or any type of crash on my XP install

Come to my house. :-(

[wang_himself]

Who would be a complete tard and install a pre-alpha release OS on thier box?


I have a better idea. Lets all install Windows for Workgroups and treat it as a secure OS!

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Windows hardly has a reputation for being a stable solid OS.

That doesn't mean XP is crap. Most of the problems I see people having with XP are due to poorly built machines

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
What is funny about this, I hear a variation of this from all the MS apologists.

"What do you expect, It's a Dell"
"What do you expect, it's a Compaq"
"What do you expect, it's a Sony"
"What do you expect, you installed it on a computer you built yourself"

I've heard all of them. What exactly is Windows supposed to run good on?

A computer not built by an idiot or a corporation full of idiots. I'd be willing to bet that if Apple sold Windows PCs, they'd actually work.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
That doesn't mean XP is crap. Most of the problems I see people having with XP are due to poorly built machines

I rest my case.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
A computer not built by an idiot or a corporation full of idiots. I'd be willing to bet that if Apple sold Windows PCs, they'd actually work.

Stratus what I am seeing is, people are saying that the only way to get Windows to work right is to hire someone professionally to build you a specific Windows stable machine.

Sorry if I don't buy this load of manure.

And if that is the case, that doesn't say much about Windows, OR the open hardware market.

I have used all kinds of Windows boxes. Ones built by seasoned veterans.

It doesn't matter.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Stratus what I am seeing is, people are saying that the only way to get Windows to work right is to hire someone professionally to build you a specific Windows stable machine.

Sorry if I don't buy this load of manure.

And if that is the case, that doesn't say much about Windows, OR the open hardware market.

I have used all kinds of Windows boxes. Ones built by seasoned veterans.

It doesn't matter.

I can say the same thing back to you. I don't buy this load of manure. I don't see why I should believe something from a bunch of obviously partial users on a Mac site when I manage a house full of machines, Mac and Windows alike, that work for the most part just perfectly fine.

I also believe that the majority of Mac users greatly exaggerate the problems they've had with Windows, and understate any problems they've ever had with a Mac. I've seen it from the other side against Macs, too, and I think they're just as ignorantly biased.

Anyway, I haven't had a prebuilt Windows machine that has had serious problems, but I tend not to trust them because I believe they're generally poorly configured compared to a comparable class of a Mac. And to conclude, I'm going to continue thinking of Mac and PC elitists alike as idiots because I honestly don't think either side has any idea of what it's really talking about.

[chalk_outline]

I have a stable XP box. With crappy hardware.

I still prefer my Macintosh.

god damn this is like drooling over a chick on the internet. you'll never get it.

[wang_himself]

I can make any OS easily run like **** on any machine taht supports that particular OS.

I can make almost any OS run stable on any machine that supports that particular OS.

There are a few truely **** OS's out there.

Windows for the most part is not one of them.

Windows 2000 in my professional opinion is one of the more stable OS's out there. OS X does a great job too. So does OS/2 and Red Hat 8.0.


If the world was inverted and macs and linux ruled the world those os's would be just as screwed. The number of viruses that would exist for them would be just as insane as the ones taht exist for windows.

Trust me that it is just a matter of time before peopel stop playing around and creaturre destructive category 5 viruses that can identfy your OS and feed you the proper package in order to bend you over. People may claim that the file size will be too big, ie 500k. Big deal, high speed internet is invading the world. Soon 500k will be nothing to transmit.

Anyway can someone invent a PHP spell checker. That is a bigger issue tahn the flame war that is begining in this thread.

PS

+1

[Zimphire]

Stratus:

I am not exaggerating anything. I have no loyalty to Apple. I would use something else if it was better for what I do.

Windows has a solid history of being a dodgy, buggy, security hole of a OS.

It didn't get this rep by just Mac users slamming it.

It got it because it deserved it.

Don't act like you have no idea why Windows has gotten a bad rep.

No one is exaggerating anything.

While OS X is hardly perfect or close to it, it's still not as dodgy as Windows.

Lets hope MS gets it right with Longhorn. If they do, I'll probably switch over.

But with MS not really changing their ways as of late, I don't see it happening.

I hope I am proved wrong.

If you have to build a specific computer with certain parts, and build it a certain way, Windows broad hardware support means nothing.

And this means MS has poor hardware support.

I hear WIndows user brag about all the hardware Windows supports, and in the same breath, claim you have to build a specialty home built machine with hand picked parts for it to work well.

Sounds dodgy to me.

I'd rather just buy a Mac, and have it work for the most part.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I am not exaggerating anything. I have no loyalty to Apple. I would use something else if it was better for what I do.

Windows has a solid history of being a dodgy, buggy, security hole of a OS.

It didn't get this rep by just Mac users slamming it.

It got it because it deserved it.

Don't act like you have no idea why Windows has gotten a bad rep.

No one is exaggerating anything.

While OS X is hardly perfect or close to it, it's still not as dodgy as Windows.

Lets hope MS gets it right with Longhorn. If they do, I'll probably switch over.

But with MS not really changing their ways as of late, I don't see it happening.

I hope I am proved wrong.

If you have to build a specific computer with certain parts, and build it a certain way, Windows broad hardware support means nothing.

And this means MS has poor hardware support.

I bet if the majority of the market actually cared about Mac OS, people would find just as many security holes and exploits. I also think that if Mac OS had to support as much hardware, it would have problems running on a broad range of machines. Look at Linux hardware support -- they try to support a somewhat wide range of hardware, and a lot of things end up broken or not working with some hardware. So really, what do you expect? Also, hardware support is generally not a problem with the OS, but the crappy drivers that the hardware manufacturers write. You know how for years people were complaining about ATi's video drivers for Windows. Finally, they're up to snuff and working fairly well.

[torsoboy]

just to throw in my two cents... the computer i am using has windows xp on it and it is very stable. bought this thing a year and a half ago and it has never crashed and i have never had to re-install anything. i have tons of software on it also (visual studio .net, dreamweaver mx, photoshop, office xp, etc...); as a result of this good experience i believe that the os is good and that some people just mess up their computers on their own. it could be the hardware, but this is an HP so you can't get much worse in that area.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
I bet if the majority of the market actually cared about Mac OS, people would find just as many security holes and exploits.

They care, they just can't afford.

And while that is a pretty good rationalization, we don't or wont know unless it happens.

I also think that if Mac OS had to support as much hardware, it would have problems running on a broad range of machines.

Right. But Apple doesn't brag about how much hardware it supports. MS does. I think they use the term "support" too lightly.

Also, hardware support is generally not a problem with the OS, but the crappy drivers that the hardware manufacturers write. You know how for years people were complaining about ATi's video drivers for Windows. Finally, they're up to snuff and working fairly well.

You would think MS would be more willing to help the 3rd parties out a bit more.

And the driver excuse I hear a lot too.

Doesn't matter WHOs fault it is. The over all experience is what matters.

I think MS tried to bite off more than it can chew. Or is willing to chew.

That is why I have ALWAYS thought such large hardware support was overrated.

And it is.

I have never met a person in real life that has never had XP crash.

Most of the stories I hear are by Windows fan boys who come into Macintosh forums to defend MS and Windows.

Those can easily be labeled as zealots. Same goes with people that say OS X has never crashed on them.

If it hasn't they are lucky.

One of the main thing that bothers me in XP is the flickering GUI. How the desktop icons will flicker whenever a window is closed, which also flickers.

Not smooth at all. Very dodgy.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by torsoboy:
just to throw in my two cents... the computer i am using has windows xp on it and it is very stable. bought this thing a year and a half ago and it has never crashed and i have never had to re-install anything. i have tons of software on it also (visual studio .net, dreamweaver mx, photoshop, office xp, etc...); as a result of this good experience i believe that the os is good and that some people just mess up their computers on their own. it could be the hardware, but this is an HP so you can't get much worse in that area.

Yeah it could NEVER be XP that is causing people to be having problems.

It's always either.

1. Hardware
2. Drivers
3. Someone MUST have did something to mess it up

I never see a Windows fan boy ever admit that Windows just might be a problem to someone who has decent hardware and drivers, and knows what he or she is doing.



And I would say the same thing to a Mac user who claimed as much too.

No operating system is perfect. They all have their faults.

Windows just has a history of being one of the worst.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
They care, they just can't afford.

Riiight...

Right. But Apple doesn't brag about how much hardware it supports. MS does. I think they use the term "support" too lightly.

It's a marketing point, not a brag...

You would think MS would be more willing to help the 3rd parties out a bit more.

WHQL exists for this reason. Oddly enough, a number of the drivers I see crashing Windows aren't certified. Who woulda thunk it?

That is why I have ALWAYS thought such large hardware support was overrated.

Maybe...until you buy a piece of hardware that isn't supported by your system.

One of the main thing that bothers me in XP is the flickering GUI. How the desktop icons will flicker whenever a window is closed, which also flickers.

Not smooth at all. Very dodgy.

You do realize the icons "flicker" because the OS is refreshing the desktop folder due to possible changes in the filesystem, right? This is the way the procedure was coded, and if you consider that a point of argument, then I feel sorry for you. It's not a good one.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yeah it could NEVER be XP that is causing people to be having problems.

It's always either.

1. Hardware
2. Drivers
3. Someone MUST have did something to mess it up

I never see a Windows fan boy ever admit that Windows just might be a problem to someone who has decent hardware and drivers, and knows what he or she is doing.



And I would say the same thing to a Mac user who claimed as much too.

No operating system is perfect. They all have their faults.

Windows just has a history of being one of the worst.

I've never seen a Mac fanboy do anything other than call Windows the worst OS and then provide no substantial evidence as support. If all you can do is blame the OS but offer no logical reason as to why, should I believe you? Why should I believe you, when, for example, most BSODs are related to a misbehaving 3rd party driver? If you ever read the output of some of those BSODs, you'd know that it's usually a driver from a 3rd party that doesn't have any decent QA.

[mixin visuals]

malaysia will be the next link of terrorism we should hit

nobody should do this to microsoft!~ hehe

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
It's a marketing point, not a brag...

Heh.. what do you think a marketing point is? Come on, that was a poor attempt at being apologetic.

WHQL exists for this reason. Oddly enough, a number of the drivers I see crashing Windows aren't certified. Who woulda thunk it?

What does it take to be certified and how much does it cost?

Maybe...until you buy a piece of hardware that isn't supported by your system.

Why would I buy a piece of hardware that didn't support a Mac? That would be silly.

You do realize the icons "flicker" because the OS is refreshing the desktop folder due to possible changes in the filesystem, right? This is the way the procedure was coded, and if you consider that a point of argument, then I feel sorry for you. It's not a good one.

LOL! Yes it is a good one. That flickering every dang time is dang annoying. And it's very dodgy.

That is why a lot of people comment on the MacOSs elegance. It refreshes, no flicker.

There is no excuse for this. You writing it off as it being not something worth complaining about is showing just how apologetic your stance is. Exactly how much of a Windows fan boy are you?

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
I've never seen a Mac fanboy do anything other than call Windows the worst OS and then provide no substantial evidence as support.

Well you aren't looking very carefully then. No evidence? Come on.. You really don't have your rose colored MS glasses on do you?

If all you can do is blame the OS but offer no logical reason as to why, should I believe you? Why should I believe you, when, for example, most BSODs are related to a misbehaving 3rd party driver? If you ever read the output of some of those BSODs, you'd know that it's usually a driver from a 3rd party that doesn't have any decent QA.

And I said I am sure some of them are. But to deny ANY of these problems are Windows based is making you look zealous in nature.

I can admit the MacOS has problems. And there are buggy parts that screw things up.

Why can't you admit the same about Windows?

If your sucking up to get that free copy of IE 6 that Bill promised you, let me let you in on a hint. Anyone can get it for free.

[soul searching]

Originally posted by wang_himself:
Who would be a complete tard and install a pre-alpha release OS on thier box?

As long as you don't treat it as your main OS I think it's a fine idea to get your hands dirty with it. I've done this with windows for a long time and started doing it with Mac OS X during it's developer previews.

I don't have an XP box but I do have a Win98 one that works just fine. It's been said here, and in other places as well, that computers are tools and should be treated as such. Use the one that best fits your needs. Or do like some of us and have one of each .

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Heh.. what do you think a marketing point is? Come on, that was a poor attempt at being apologetic.
[/b]
What does it take to be certified and how much does it cost?
[/b] Why would I buy a piece of hardware that didn't support a Mac? That would be silly.

LOL! Yes it is a good one. That flickering every dang time is dang annoying. And it's very dodgy.

That is why a lot of people comment on the MacOSs elegance. It refreshes, no flicker.

There is no excuse for this. You writing it off as it being not something worth complaining about is showing just how apologetic your stance is. Exactly how much of a Windows fan boy are you?

[/b]
Well you aren't looking very carefully then. No evidence? Come on.. You really don't have your rose colored MS glasses on do you?


And I said I am sure some of them are. But to deny ANY of these problems are Windows based is making you look zealous in nature.

I can admit the MacOS has problems. And there are buggy parts that screw things up.

Why can't you admit the same about Windows?

If your sucking up to get that free copy of IE 6 that Bill promised you, let me let you in on a hint. Anyone can get it for free. [/B]

If you've started calling me a Windows fanboy, then this isn't worth my time, "Mac fanboy."

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
If you've started calling me a Windows fanboy, then this isn't worth my time, "Mac fanboy."

When you act like one, you know, not being able to admit XP has faults, Blaming ANY problems people are having with Windows based machines on ANYTHING BUT XP as if it was infallible people tend to get the impression that you are indeed a MS apologist. Or fanboy.

However your claim of me being a Mac fanboy is off base.

I can admit OS X has problems. I have no allegiance to Apple. I don't go into PC forums and defend Apple.

Can you see the difference?

Until MS does a complete turn around, Windows will always be known as a hole filled dodgy OS.

I don't see it changing soon.

Longhorn looks to be MSs Copland.

[kmkkid]

This thread is a joke.


Your new writing style sucks Zimphire, create some proper paragraphs.



Chris

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
How is any other version of Windows inherently unstable? I'm still waiting to have a BSOD or any type of crash on my XP install

Calling Windows unstable is the "Mac" thing to say.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
When you act like one, you know, not being able to admit XP has faults, Blaming ANY problems people are having with Windows based machines on ANYTHING BUT XP as if it was infallible people tend to get the impression that you are indeed a MS apologist. Or fanboy.

However your claim of me being a Mac fanboy is off base.

I can admit OS X has problems. I have no allegiance to Apple. I don't go into PC forums and defend Apple.

Can you see the difference?

Until MS does a complete turn around, Windows will always be known as a hole filled dodgy OS.

I don't see it changing soon.

Longhorn looks to be MSs Copland.

I never said there was nothing wrong with XP. I'm giving you answers to some common problems with XP, and you're denying that they could possibly be true. You seem like much more of a fanboy to me than I do to myself.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Calling Windows unstable is the "Mac" thing to say.

That's what I figured

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
This thread is a joke.


Your new writing style sucks Zimphire, create some proper paragraphs.



Chris

Should I add large spaces in-between my thoughts like you?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Calling Windows unstable is the "Mac" thing to say.

Funny, I hear tons of Windows users saying it daily.

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
I never said there was nothing wrong with XP.

You kept blaming and problems people are having with XP on none XP things. This is the first time you ever admitted that maybe, XP has problems.

I'm giving you answers to some common problems with XP, and you're denying that they could possibly be true. You seem like much more of a fanboy to me than I do to myself.

I am denying it? When did I do that? I said that it's more than likely PART of the problem.

You are making things up now.

Go back and read what I had to say.

I said I am sure bad drivers and faulty hardware was part of the problem. But part of the problem was also XP. Something you seem reluctant to admit. The only thing you said on the matter was:

"I never said there was nothing wrong with XP."

You never said nothing was wrong with XP, but you never said there wasn't. You never said "Yeah well some of the problems are XPs fault"

You blamed everything else BUT XP. And you are still trying to skirt around admitting this.

So do you finally now admit that problems people are having with Windows are just not hardware or driver based ones, but problems with XP itself?

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Funny, I hear tons of Windows users saying it daily.


You kept blaming and problems people are having with XP on none XP things. This is the first time you ever admitted that maybe, XP has problems.


I am denying it? When did I do that? I said that it's more than likely PART of the problem.

You are making things up now.

Go back and read what I had to say.

I said I am sure bad drivers and faulty hardware was part of the problem. But part of the problem was also XP. Something you seem reluctant to admit. The only thing you said on the matter was:

"I never said there was nothing wrong with XP."

You never said nothing was wrong with XP, but you never said there wasn't. You never said "Yeah well some of the problems are XPs fault"

You blamed everything else BUT XP. And you are still trying to skirt around admitting this.

So do you finally now admit that problems people are having with Windows are just not hardware or driver based ones, but problems with XP itself? [/B]

This is ridiculous. You go from saying XP is unstable without any really good supporting statements, to "you are a fanboy," to "well, I guess part of the problem is hardware and part is XP" (implying XP isn't the complete problem, unlike you seemed to think before). So which is it? Now you're also trying to put spin on things and argue against me rather than against the argument. That just makes this not worth my time.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
This thread is a joke.

Yes, it is

[Zimphire]

Stratus let me give you some advice.

Read --> Comprehend --> Reply

Not

Skim over --> Make up stuff --> Disregard.

Originally posted by Stratus Fear:
This is ridiculous. You go from saying XP is unstable without any really good supporting statements,

I said Windows has a history of being a dodgy OS. I also said XP was a step in the right direction, but it still wasn't there. And supporting my statements? Are you saying that Windows DOES NOT have a rep of being a unstable OS? I surely hope not.

to "you are a fanboy," to "well, I guess part of the problem is hardware and part is XP" (implying XP isn't the complete problem, unlike you seemed to think before).

I never said XP was the complete problem. You're zealous attachment to Windows is making you post dishonest things.

So which is it?

I have already went into detail about this. If you read my posts you wouldn't have to ask such questions.

It's a mixture of things. My comment to you was, you seem to have the inability to admit XP has problems. You totally ignored the last part of my post. Why is that?

Now you're also trying to put spin on things and argue against me rather than against the argument. That just makes this not worth my time.

No, it's not me that is spinning. Again.

Read--> Comprehend--> Reply.

I ask you again.

Do you finally now admit that problems people are having with Windows are just not hardware or driver based ones, but problems with XP itself?

Can you admit that part of the problem people have with XP is MS fault?

[wang_himself]

This thread is now retarded.

+1

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Should I add large spaces in-between my thoughts like you?

well it is

afterall, way

better than typing

this way,

Don't you agree?

Maybe I'm wrong.





Chris