[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Oh please continue. The absolute schooling you are delivering is most amusing.

Seriously? Geez.

PS: For those that are still having difficulty accepting these little things we call "facts", this little tidbit from the Nicene Creed ought to be your first clue.

"I believe in one, holy, CATHOLIC and apostolic Church."

Meaning: "universal" and "connected via lineage with the apostles". So... yeah...

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

I capitalized it for emphasis as I often do. The point being is that the Nicene Creed is the product of the Roman Catholic Church. Notwithstanding the fact that "little C" catholic has a broader meaning:

No, Pope Sylvester I had little interest in the Nicene Council and only sent a couple delegates for the sake of appearances.

Put another way, even though the word "catholic" is used in the name of the church for "universal" purposes, it is notable that it is still preceded by "Roman". Because that is where the power resided to spread the faith through that part of the ancient world. The fact that there was even a need for the Council of Nicea in the first place speaks to the existence of disagreement among the early followers of Christ over doctrinal and theological issues. But as the old saying goes ... history is written by the victors. And that was certainly the case in this particular situation because the Roman Catholic Church on the orders of Emperor Constantine burned the writings of the losers. And anyone found in possession of them were executed. IJS.

OAW

There are FIVE unbroken lines of "Popes" (Roman, Copt, Ethiopian, Syrian, Maronite), connecting all the way back to the original 72 apostles. Just because most in the US haven't heard of them doesn't mean they haven't influenced, and/or represented, 100s of millions, if not billions, of people.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I don't recall the presbytarian church my friends went to saying the Nicene Creed during mass, er services.

It's generally taught in Sunday school, it's not a part of the regular service for most protestants.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

In the creed?

No. In the name of the institution that won the conflict.

OAW

[OAW]

I will say one thing. Shaddim raises a good point. Which goes to the crux of the point of contention between him and Shifuimam.

"Christian" as defined as the original agreed upon theological doctrine of the various factions of "Christendom" in 325 AD is one thing. Whereas "Christian" as defined as a "follower of the teachings of Christ" is another. And the two are certainly not always synonymous.

OAW

[Shaddim]

I'm thinking it needs a "C" and "c" capitalization identifier, like with Libertarians/libertarians.

[Chongo]

Someone has been watching Zeitgeist The Movie too much

[Shaddim]

Talk about anti-Theist spin, that "documentary" (Zeitgeist) has it all. It's the atheist version of Infowars. I counted a dozen blatant misrepresentations and outright BS statements, just in the first 15 minutes.

[unicast reversepath]

I realize that discussing and debating is a big part of what the regular forum members here do, and I think it is great - I have learned some very important things from reading your posts over the years.

That being said, I feel the need to point out that IMHO all the legalistic "brewhaha" tends to detract from Jesus' original message.

" Something has happened to the integrity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ over the centuries; it has become radically compromised since Jesus walked the earth. The original gospel message has gradually become corrupted, diluted, polluted, tainted, and perverted; it has systematically been adulterated, contaminated, fractionated, and obfuscated; and in the most recent past, it has been alphabetized, analyzed, categorized, compartmentalized, commercialized, modernized, and digitized, and by all these actions — it has become almost paralyzed!

The last great ministry of the Holy Spirit, which was promised to mankind by the Original Gospel of Jesus, has been stalled; it has been twisted and convoluted; it has been imitated with chaotic counterfeits, and it has been ignored by what calls herself Christianity today. "

"There is a divine spark in every man. The first gospel revealed the plan, by which a patient, loving God has made provision to redeem All who will, to come home through Christ Jesus"


The Modern vs. the Original Gospel : A tabular comparison of the differences ...

The point I am trying to make in simplistic terms, is that God wants us to have a personal relationship with him, and we accomplish this through Jesus.



James