[Oneota]

Hey all,

I've currently got a 2000 Chrysler 300M, which has been, on the whole, a great car for me. I got a fantastic deal on it (dealer looked up the wrong VIN and thought we were negotiating for a different car until it was too late), it's fully loaded, and it's got a gutsy engine that doesn't complain when I ask it to do 85. It's also got 76K miles and starting to become unreliable. So, it's time to move on.

I've been looking at an '04 Honda Accord EX-L Coupe (4-cyl). It's pretty well-loaded, too, but not quite to the extent that the 300M is. I don't think it has traction control, for one (which came in handy last winter). My only worry is that it's a 2-door (I've gotten used to the convenience of 4 doors), and it's a 4-cylinder with about 90 fewer horses than my 300M. I've found one that has just under 30K miles and the dealer's asking about $19.5.

Thoughts?

[awaspaas]

I just got a brand new '06 Mazda6 sedan with a V6 (215 hp) for under $20K. Quite a bit more interesting than the Accord, in my opinion. Has 4 doors and standard traction control/side airbags/ABS/etc.

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by awaspaas

I just got a brand new '06 Mazda6 sedan with a V6 (215 hp) for under $20K. Quite a bit more interesting than the Accord, in my opinion. Has 4 doors and standard traction control/side airbags/ABS/etc.

What's Mazda's reliability record like? That's the one big draw to Honda, IMO. Pretty much everyone agrees that all you've gotta do is change the oil on a Honda, and it'll keep going for 200K miles.

Also, where'd you find it under 20K? Was it just good haggling on your part? Cheapest V6 I'm seeing is 23.5!

[awaspaas]

Walser in Mpls has a bunch of new V6's with automatic for $19,060 (it's a no-haggle place). I guess it's an end-of-year incentive or something.

As for reliability, probably not quite at Honda/Toyota levels but still fairly good apparently - I got an extended warranty to be safe. I'm sure it's much better than Chrysler though!

[n8236]

I need to know a few things before I make some suggestions.

1) What is your price range?
2) Do you prefer domestic or imports?
3) How importatnt is traction control to you?

If youy're trying to keep the out the door price at about 23k, you have quite a huge range of cars to choose from. Imports typically don't emphasize low end torque as much as domestics. But they are peppy and have just enough kick to manuever around if need be. Regular maintenance on imports such as oil changes, brake pads, etc can typically be do-it-yourself, so you can save a buck or two if you go that route.

The current Accords are nice cars, but that current generation has already gotten dated and are ready for a new model. If you don't mind driving something older, then the car's pretty good and can typically be had at or under invoice. But coming from a 300C, I HIGHLY suggest the new Toyota Camry v6 because it has 260+ horsepowers, quiet, smooth, and relatively economical to other v6s in its class. The size of the car is also comparable to the 300C as well. Toyotas are very solid and reliable cars, so you really can't go wrong, though they do lack some spirited passion driving. But also check out the Mazda 6.

Lemme know if have any other queestions.

[Oneota]

Thanks n8236. Just to clarify:

I'm coming from a 300M, not a 300C (never liked the 300Cs).

My price range is probably the $14K-$20K neighborhood. With my recent promotion and raise, I could probably afford to pay more, but I kind of like where my monthly budget is now and don't want to change it too much if I don't have to.

As for the Domestic/Import debate, I don't really care. My main criteria for the car is:
a) I want a car that is reliable, and won't start costing more in repairs than my mortgage (which is what my 300M is threatening to do)
b) I want a car that has some balls. I don't need to be a drag-racer, but I do want the ability to pass people at will on the interstate. The one thing I absolutely love about my 300M is that if I'm doing 70-75 on the interstate and it becomes apparent that I need to get around some folks, it'll happily do 85 to make it happen. In fact, I sometimes get the impression that it's disappointed that I'm only asking it to do 85.
c) It can't be a granny-mobile. I'm still fairly young, and my ride's gotta look kinda cool.

[Kevin]

Please don't let Ron see this thread.. please...

[macfantn]

why not go for the 4dr civic fully loaded ex would be the same price as used 04 accord, you may lose a few things but it'll be brand new and under warranty for 36k miles, i have an 06 atomic blue ex and love it. no complaints at all. plus it has an aux in for an ipod or sirius radio.

[n8236]

Ah, sry about that. hjeeheh. Wow, the 300M is quite a big car. If size isn't a problem, I would also suggest you take a look at the Mazda Speed 3. That car's got hop and lotta good stuff. That car is totally underrated for what you get. It's in the low 20s. Subaru Impreza as well.

Ya, the Camry is a bit of a grandma-mobile, at least the previous generations were. Though it still has that type of stigma, the new Camry is a really sweet ride if you get the SE version.

[Oneota]

I really liked the Civics...my only thought on those is that they're potentially too small. It's definitely something to keep in mind, though. I'm going to bring an eMac box and my 76-key synth case in with me tomorrow and see how they fit into various vehicles. I gotta haul stuff around a fair bit for work, so my car needs to be practical in that sense.

[stevesnj]

Buy the Honda!! If you want to wait, a lot of the car companies are coming out with diesel versions of their cars, the diesels of today are not like before, I drove a VW diesel in Germany...i couldn't tell it was a diesel. Only at start up and stop light...but off idle its quite. anyway Honda, Toyato, Nissan IMHO

[macfantn]

get the 4dr civic suprisingly alot of a room im' 6'3 220 and i have plenty of room, the backseat is good for hauling cargo, the leg room isn't the best for tall people, but the flat floor does help for having 3 passengers. and the seats do fold down which is good.

[awaspaas]

I'm afraid Accord and Camry fail your "c" criterion. I'd say Mazda6 or Nissan Altima (a little bigger yet). There's a hatchback version of the Mazda6 which is pretty much identical looking to the sedan, but the back window opens with the trunk. That's a good option for even more storage.

[macfantn]

plus i get avg about 28 mpg which isn't bad, I drive only in the city and drive my car hard.

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by awaspaas

I'm afraid Accord and Camry fail your "c" criterion.

I dunno - the Accord Coupe (with the spoiler, which this one I'm looking at has) looks pretty slick, IMO.

[INeverSpam]

My wife's 89 accord hit 240,000 miles a week or two ago. It's halfway to 241,000 now. Honestly.... NO CAR is totally reliable. All cars require maintenence. Struts wear out, exhausts wear out, spark plugs wear out, clutches wear out, etc etc etc etc. I just replaced the upper control arms in back, and in front, the lower ball joints, the upper ball joints, tie rod ends, swaybar bushings, etc etc etc on the honda. Why? Because we like the car. The trick is finding a car you LIKE, and keeping it maintained. Why? Maintaining a car you already own, is almost ALWAYS cheaper than buying a new car, which will need other new things. In order to do this, you need to have a car you like. At 74,000 miles, your chrysler is still a baby. If you LIKE the car, just keep it maintained. If you think you NEED a new car, you're full of ****. If you want a new car, that's fine too. But don't try to tell us that 'wanting a new car' is the same thing as needing one.

Again, all cars require money, parts, and care. If you like the car, you can keep it almost indefinitely by keeping it in good shape. Replace what needs replacing. Fix what needs fixing. It costs money, but it costs a LOT less than getting another car which will just require maintenence again anyway.

[n8236]

If you don't minf Korean branded cars such as Kia or Hyundai, they make some really nice cars now and they really bring the bang in bang for the buck. You be surprised how nice they are for the money. Take at the Sorento

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by INeverSpam

At 74,000 miles, your chrysler is still a baby. If you LIKE the car, just keep it maintained. If you think you NEED a new car, you're full of ****. If you want a new car, that's fine too. But don't try to tell us that 'wanting a new car' is the same thing as needing one.

Well, here's what's causing me to think I need a new car:
1) The AC system is currently non-functional. I replaced the [Edit:]compressor last summer ($900), and now they're saying it could be the evaporator, which will be an additional $1200 (and involve taking the dashboard apart, which means it won't get put back together quite right and will probably squeak and creak from that day forward).
2) The driver's side door lock doesn't lock/unlock with the rest of the power locks, so I have to lock and unlock the car with the key. Not a huge deal, but it's a pain. Again, fixing it will probably require taking the door apart, which means a strong possibility of it not being put back together tightly
3) I think there's something wonky in the electrical system - when the headlights are on, the interior gauges will occasionally flicker from their dim setting to the normal, headlights-off setting. Other, less-memorable things corroborate this theory (I can't think what they are off-hand, but I remember noticing them while driving).

All of this adds up to a considerable repair bill, and that's not even counting the new rotors, joints, and other repairs I've had to do to keep the car on the road. And then there's the almost-monthly tire repair caused by the chrome wheels (apparently the 300M wheel style I have is notorious for damaging tires). Fortunately, I got my tires from Tires Plus, so they'll fix 'em free as long as I own 'em.

On the other hand, I love how bad-ass the engine in this thing is, and it looks fantastic.


So no, I don't think I'm full of anything in thinking I need a new car, thankyouverymuch.

[bailey_jatt]

if you want something really bad ass then i would say go with an Audi S6 5 cylinder inline quattro. you would have to get one second hand tho ... best of german engineering indeed

[Dino-Rider]

Originally Posted by bailey_jatt

if you want something really bad ass then i would say go with an Audi S6 5 cylinder inline quattro. you would have to get one second hand tho ... best of german engineering indeed

HAhAHAha.

Dude, he said he wanted a car that's repair bill wouldn't cost more than his mortage. And seeing as how he paid $900 for a freaking condensor replacement, he's obviously not shopping around and finding good deals on quality automotive work. If he bougth the audi he'd get assraped.

To the original dude: Find a better shop. Seriously. $900 for a condensor replacement is just absurd. As for the door lock, that should be a very easy, cheap, electrical fix.

If you like the 300M, keep it. Just shop around, and find a place that offers good prices for quality workmanship. Also, tackle some jobs yourself. Taking off a door panel only requires a few screwdrivers. It is NOT very complicated.

[Dino-Rider]

PS: Also, find a 300M forum. They will offer you the best advice on how to fix something yourself, or at least troubleshoot the problem yourself. It's a good car. If you drive it into the ground you're going to know your vehicle's history, what has been replaced, how it's been taken care of, and it will be REALLY REALLY REALLY cheap. Even if you spend $3500 fixing it, it's much cheaper than selling it for less than 10 grand and spending another $10,000 on a newer car.

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by Dino-Rider

To the original dude: Find a better shop. Seriously. $900 for a condensor replacement is just absurd. As for the door lock, that should be a very easy, cheap, electrical fix.

I may have been a bit off on that figure (it was over a year ago), it may have actually been the compressor, not the condenser (I can't remember for sure), and if memory serves, there was some other work on that bill, too, but yeah - I'm not overly impressed with that shop anymore.

And, btw, I never said I was worried about the price of the door lock fix, but rather that once something like that is taken apart, it's hardly ever put back together quite right. And random rattles bug the crap out of me.

[Edit: This started bugging me, so I found the receipt. Yeah, it was the compressor, not the condenser. And it needed a new Dryer Reciever at the same time.]

[Dino-Rider]

A door panel is hardly a complicated assembly. It involves some plastic clips and a few screws/bolts. Again....if rattles are what you are concerned about, do that yourself. It's very very very easy.

[SVass]

As one who bought a Civic 4 door EX about 18 months ago, I can attest that it is comfortable and reliable. I drove it from Seattle to Salt Lake and back last year and did reach 100 mph a few times. Yes, the rear seat backs do fold down if necessary. I do have studded tires for the winter and it handles well. sam

[gumby5647]

two words:

Saturn ION

[Dino-Rider]

Originally Posted by SVass

As one who bought a Civic 4 door EX about 18 months ago, I can attest that it is comfortable and reliable. I drove it from Seattle to Salt Lake and back last year and did reach 100 mph a few times. Yes, the rear seat backs do fold down if necessary. I do have studded tires for the winter and it handles well. sam

That really is nothing special at all. Any car can do this.

[Dino-Rider]

Originally Posted by gumby5647

two words:

Saturn ION

A few words: Saturn sucks. It uses GM craptastic engines, and all the 'newer' saturns are basically going to be imported Opels from europe, since Saturn sucks at designing anything.

[Scotttheking]

Hyundai Motor America - 2007 Hyundai Sonata Sedan

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by Dino-Rider

A few words: Saturn sucks. It uses GM craptastic engines, and all the 'newer' saturns are basically going to be imported Opels from europe, since Saturn sucks at designing anything.

...I won't bother asking you about your opinion of the Pontiac Grand Prix, then.

[Dino-Rider]

I think the new pontiac G6 is a decently put together car, which is a first for GM.

[CaseCom]

Wow, $20K seems steep for a used Accord.

The new VW GTI might stretch your budget a bit (I think it starts at $22K), but it comes in a four-door model and I bet the hatch would handle your music gear just fine.

I drove a Mazda6 rental down the Pacific coast last fall and liked it. Also the Ford Fusion is basically a Ford version of the Mazda6.

If you like Hondas, how about an Acura TSX? You might be able to get a used one for close to $20K.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oneota

it's got a gutsy engine that doesn't complain when I ask it to do 85.

That's it. I'm finally convinced that I'm living on a different planet.

[Luca Rescigno]

FYI, if you consider a Mazda6, keep in mind that the V6 version uses a Ford engine that isn't quite as reliable as the Mazda-designed 4 cylinder version. The I4 may be slightly lacking in power, but the V6 isn't as reliable or as refined (at least from what I've heard, YMMV, etc).

I do like Mazda, though. And I kind of like Ford too, at least recently. But yes, Hondas are excellent. The main problem is that their reputation is so great that they just don't drop in value. Actually, that's kind of like Macs, isn't it? Hondas are always a little more expensive than the competition, but they're reliable and they hold their value forever.

The one thing that would keep me from getting a Honda if it was otherwise affordable and a good fit for my needs would be that they tend to be just really boring. Not that a 300M is the most exciting car out there, but there are so many Accords everywhere that driving one myself makes me feel so ordinary. Mazdas are a little more interesting.

If you want a really BIG car to replace your big 300M, look at the Ford Five Hundred as well. It's huge. Boring, just like the Taurus it replaced, but large and comfy. The Japanese don't really do big cars like Americans do. The Mazda6 and Accord are both smaller than the Five Hundred.

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by Doofy

That's it. I'm finally convinced that I'm living on a different planet.

Huh?

I should've clarified that statement, I guess. The car I drove previous to my 300M was a 4-banger 1994 Chevy Cavalier. It would put up a fight just getting to 65. All I meant was that I didn't want to go back to that experience (also, I love that I can be doing 70 and still have plenty of power to spare).

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

If you want a really BIG car to replace your big 300M, look at the Ford Five Hundred as well. It's huge. Boring, just like the Taurus it replaced, but large and comfy. The Japanese don't really do big cars like Americans do. The Mazda6 and Accord are both smaller than the Five Hundred.

I don't especially want anything too big - I may have unrealistic expectations, though. What I want is fast, fuel-efficient, enough cargo space for my Fantom-X7 synthesizer, and good-looking.

I test-drove an '05 Grand Prix GT last night - I actually found myself really liking it. It was much more feature-laden than the Accord coupe I tested out earlier, and for a cheaper price (that I'm going to try to negotiate downward anyway, since the dealer was asking way over blue book for it).

[Dino-Rider]

Originally Posted by Doofy

That's it. I'm finally convinced that I'm living on a different planet.

hahaaha. Yeah. The wife's 98hp accord does 85 no problem.

[Dino-Rider]

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

FYI, if you consider a Mazda6, keep in mind that the V6 version uses a Ford engine that isn't quite as reliable as the Mazda-designed 4 cylinder version. The I4 may be slightly lacking in power, but the V6 isn't as reliable or as refined (at least from what I've heard, YMMV, etc).

I do like Mazda, though. And I kind of like Ford too, at least recently. But yes, Hondas are excellent. The main problem is that their reputation is so great that they just don't drop in value. Actually, that's kind of like Macs, isn't it? Hondas are always a little more expensive than the competition, but they're reliable and they hold their value forever.

The one thing that would keep me from getting a Honda if it was otherwise affordable and a good fit for my needs would be that they tend to be just really boring. Not that a 300M is the most exciting car out there, but there are so many Accords everywhere that driving one myself makes me feel so ordinary. Mazdas are a little more interesting.

If you want a really BIG car to replace your big 300M, look at the Ford Five Hundred as well. It's huge. Boring, just like the Taurus it replaced, but large and comfy. The Japanese don't really do big cars like Americans do. The Mazda6 and Accord are both smaller than the Five Hundred.

Not sure about that v6 comment. Actually, I'm not totally convinced about mazdas long term reliability with any engine, in any of their cars. You just don't see old mazdas on the road like you do toyotas and hondas... and if you do, they're usually smoking out the tailpipe. Granted, it's all in how you take care of it...but...

As for honda being boring.... yeah, in comparison to some companies. But honda's lineup seems more like some supermodels doing martial arts on amphetamines when placed next to toyota's coma inducing lineup.

[TailsToo]

If you mean boring by the fact that the car will run forever, then I love Honda's kind of boring!

[Oneota]

Just as an update:

I found a pretty good deal on a fully-loaded 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix, and made the trade yesterday. Now I have until Tuesday (or 150 miles) to decide if I like it.

Only thing that concerns me is that the interior is very plastic-y compared to the 300M. Also, the engine seems noisier (it kind of growls at me during city driving). I can get used to the engine, but I'm just not sure about the interior of the GP. It just feels cheap compared to the lushness of my old Chrysler. It's also bigger than I really wanted to go, but darned if I could find a smaller car that had enough get-up-and-go for my tastes.