[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Nah XP on Mac is just a tool to get by with, when your done with the boring XP stuff the Mac user will boot back to OS X to get their real work done.....lol what a slap in the face for MS. OS X will get stronger and better.

I don't think Microsoft will care.

I would argue Dell, HP and the such would be more upset. This could undermine their higher end systems.

[graveguy]

Has anyone actually got this up and running, yet? How's the performance? Limitations?

[Super Mario]

Boot Camp means game development is dead.

It also means I can play FIFA on my Mac /the mothertruckers never were porting any version anyway.

[starman]

Originally Posted by graveguy

Has anyone actually got this up and running, yet? How's the performance? Limitations?

See my previous comments.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

Boot Camp means game development is dead.

It also means I can play FIFA on my Mac /the mothertruckers never were porting any version anyway.

I wouldn't say game development is DEAD. Everyone forgets that you STILL have to shell out $$$ for a copy of XP, do the installation, etc. THis isn't for the weak at heart.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

Boot Camp means game development is dead.

Ya I think that might be a valid point. I can see game developers saying "reboot into windows" rather than making a Mac version.

Who knows though, it might be really easy to convert a PC game to a Mac one if they are both running on Intel.

[BRussell]

I think that the people who are worried that software developers will stop writing for Mac OS X have a good concern. But I want to make two counter points:

1. It's already happened. The Mac has such a small market share that there already isn't much incentive for developers to write software for the Mac. Only in cases where the Mac has a decent market share (e.g., Photoshop applications) is there an incentive.

2. Notice that Apple has been making a lot more of its own software lately: the iMovie, iDVD, Garageband, iPhoto series, FC Express, and the pro versions of those. The simple fact is, for better or worse, Apple is less dependent on third-party developers than they used to be.

3. There probably simply isn't any other way for Mac market share to increase. Experience over the years has shown that not many people are willing to just switch wholesale.

[Tuoder]

Originally Posted by discotronic

It has been confirmed. The first true, in the wild, virus on a modern Mac!!!

You mean Windows, right?


I really don't think this is life-changing, people. Windows costs like $200 at your local Best Buy. Getting Windows on your PC is one thing, but paying $200 for something that is not cake for a non-savvy person to install is a big leap. I think that few people will use this. It also requires a reboot. That is annoying, and rather impractical in a buisiness envirnment. I see this serving a big time purpose for gamers, and complete geeks such as myself, but IMHO this will not see much use in the general population.

[thingsthatgobump]

I see this as a hugely positive thing.

A) My old work was a large company which was "windows only". There where 2 useres I knew of out of 8000 (local) workers who had mac's, and they where in very high positions to be able to do it. With this move, it will be possible for most workers who want to get a mac, and use windows for work (if required).

B) My current work is a smaller company with about 200 employees. Apple is allways recomended for new workers, but there is a possibility to take a windows machine too. It goes about 60/40 (mac/pc), but I've noticed alot of the people who choose the pc would have prefered a mac on the longer run (I can firsthand guarantee it's alot nicer to use). Now we could stop the pc option alltogeather, and give the windows people an option to have windows installed on their mac. Once they come to their sences, they will end up booting into osX alot more then to windows (unless they use an application that won't work otherwise).

I can't really think of any negatives. I do agree that game development might end for os x, but that does'nt bother me (don't play games). Other development? What will happen?

- A huge amount of people are afraid to switch even though they would want to. I bet sales will double
- Most of these people will end up using osX since it's nicer
- This will include alot of software developers
- Apples userbase will have doubled, there is no way this will decrease software development for os x

[AppleCello]

we need a game compatability engine.

Im talking about a pseudo OS that doesnt care what operating system is running beside it and does nothign but manage games. Basically, boot an Xbox or Playstation style OS alongside Mac or Windows OS and run games from there. would be much more efficient...

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ©öñFü$íóÑ

Maybe...I don't know... But maybe i kind of meant it in a software developer's point of view, 'why would anyone want to develop for the OS X platform now that Mac users can easily run Windows programs?'

That's no more reasonable now than it ever was. Developers could always say, "Run it in VPC" or "Run it on a Windows box." Now they can add "Buy Windows and repartition your disk" to the list. It ain't a big deal — those who don't want to support the Mac will just not support it, and those who do will continue to do so.

[11011001]

It's kinda sad, it seems that companies like Aspyr no longer have any incentive to port games to the Mac. :/

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by starman

It ran World of Warcraft. 17-51 fps in Ironforge.

On what hardware?

[greenamp]

I agree it's going top be interesting to see how Mac game development is changed or not changed in light of this.

What if somehow Leopard ran games "faster?"

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

Boot Camp means game development is dead.

I doubt it.

Mac-only game developers aren't going anywhere. This won't affect Pangaea, for instance.

Mac developers like Blizzard aren't going to stop. They have an effective system in place for making both Mac and PC versions. If they stop developing for Mac, they lose money.

Mac porting companies aren't going to close up shop over this. For instance, Apsyr exists to port games. Why stop if they make money? EDIT: They may make more money if BootCamp leads to an increase in Apple hardware purchases.

I can see serious Mac gamers buying Windows and Windows game titles, but casual Mac gamers aren't gonna buy and install Windows. And casual gamers are the most important group of buyers.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by 11011001

It's kinda sad, it seems that companies like Aspyr no longer have any incentive to port games to the Mac. :/

Uh, they still need to make money. Do you see them going out of business because of BootCamp?

[davesimondotcom]

You mean people still play games on their Mac?

I don't care if game development slows. As long as someone lights a fire under the folks at MacrAdobia to get their stuff Universal ASAP.

[Mithras]

This story is the lead on the New York Times. Big news!
[removed oversize image. --tooki]

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by AppleCello

we need a game compatability engine.

Im talking about a pseudo OS that doesnt care what operating system is running beside it and does nothign but manage games. Basically, boot an Xbox or Playstation style OS alongside Mac or Windows OS and run games from there. would be much more efficient...

Like Java?

Sorry, but nothing is more efficient than writing software that runs natively.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

I don't think Microsoft will care.

I would argue Dell, HP and the such would be more upset. This could undermine their higher end systems.

...and education. I have a fealing Dell is pretty worried about losing a good chunk of their education market, possibly giving Apple the lead again in the U.S. and extending their lead in European educational markets.

[11011001]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Uh, they still need to make money. Do you see them going out of business because of BootCamp?

Of course not, Aspyr also publishes PC games. I never said anything about them going out of business. To reiterate, they don't have much incentive to port Mac games anymore.

[AppleCello]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Like Java?

Sorry, but nothing is more efficient than writing software that runs natively.

No nothing like java, Im talking about a completely seperate OS that runs natively on the intel hardware that completely circumvents the computer's primary OS (save for some integration with application launchers to start up the game).

So basically its like a different VMware environment. That'll do.

[Y3a]

while not specifically a "game", I bought my dual-2gig G5 to play the newest X-Plane vesion. I also picked up a 20" cinema display. I'd rather NOT have to use WindersXP just due to the general flakeyness, risk of viruses ruining the OS and environment and the time used to undo it. Most folks I know use their PC's to send email, browse the net and play music and look at photos. I see lots more creative things happening on the mac platform.

[kman42]

This is just a transitional release because Apple is working on including virtualization in Leopard. They want to release a solution that will be compatible with that when it arrives. My guess is they are working closely with MS on the virtualization solution. It will work essentially like VPC, but run natively. Buy Leopard for $129. Buy Leopard with Vista for $299.

[Dark Helmet]

Cool I guess I can use one of the awesome MS 360 controllers on a Mac to play games in XP now

[AppleCello]

Originally Posted by Y3a

while not specifically a "game", I bought my dual-2gig G5 to play the newest X-Plane vesion. I also picked up a 20" cinema display. I'd rather NOT have to use WindersXP just due to the general flakeyness, risk of viruses ruining the OS and environment and the time used to undo it. Most folks I know use their PC's to send email, browse the net and play music and look at photos. I see lots more creative things happening on the mac platform.

Isn't Xplane amazing?! I am running it on my MacBook Pro and cant get enough.

[ajprice]

Firstly, WOW!

Secondly, has it been stated how well the Windows drivers will be incorporated into XP on Mac? will an iSight or Soundsticks run in Windows, for example?

Not really sure what to think of this at the moment, but I think its good. Leopard is going to get interesting now, this thing is beta, so maybe the Leopard version will support Vista, maybe maybe without rebooting, and accessed the same way as the user switching rotating cube thingy.

Oh yes, and WOW! again.

[AppleCello]

Originally Posted by ajprice

Firstly, WOW!

Secondly, has it been stated how well the Windows drivers will be incorporated into XP on Mac? will an iSight or Soundsticks run in Windows, for example?

Not really sure what to think of this at the moment, but I think its good. Leopard is going to get interesting now, this thing is beta, so maybe the Leopard version will support Vista, maybe maybe without rebooting, and accessed the same way as the user switching rotating cube thingy.

Oh yes, and WOW! again.

As I take it, at this point certain things dont work, driver-wise. no iSight, no Apple remote. but the volume keys and eject keys should work. speakers, at least SOME video support but im not sure how many gfx card features are supported by these drivers...

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by ajprice

Firstly, WOW!

Secondly, has it been stated how well the Windows drivers will be incorporated into XP on Mac? will an iSight or Soundsticks run in Windows, for example?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303572

Are there any Macintosh features that I should not expect to work when running Windows XP on an Intel-based Macintosh computer?

Even after installling the Macintosh Drivers CD, the Apple Remote Control (IR), Apple Wireless (Bluetooth) keyboard or mouse, Apple USB Modem, MacBook Pro's sudden motion sensor, MacBook Pro's ambient light sensor, and built-in iSight camera will not function correctly when running Windows.

While booted into Windows XP, I still hear sound coming from the built-in speaker even with headphones plugged in.

The Boot Camp Beta audio driver for Windows XP does not currently support rerouting sound.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by ajprice

Not really sure what to think of this at the moment, but I think its good. Leopard is going to get interesting now, this thing is beta, so maybe the Leopard version will support Vista, maybe maybe without rebooting, and accessed the same way as the user switching rotating cube thingy.

Like SWG, I'm hoping for running Windows in a window. Something like VirtualPC. Especially if it means a shared clipboard, drag-and-drop between environments, etc. If you got a very nice Virtual Machine running Windows inside OS X, it'd be a wetdream for cross-platform coders and designers. Not to mention the added benefit of playing even more games.

Besides, I don't think Windows could handle the awesomeness of Sketchfighter 4000 Alpha

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally Posted by BrunoBruin

Sorry if someone else has already mentioned this, but...it's 1993 all over again!



Anyone else remember this little beauty? It ran System 7 and had an Intel processor card for running DOS/Windows as well.

Now those were the good old days!

[Dakar]

Those were the awesome monitors...

[brapper]

GOOD POINT!
Probably the thing that most excited me about this...haha..


edit:
forgot to quote...referring to Super Mario's FIFA comment.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Like SWG, I'm hoping for running Windows in a window. Something like VirtualPC. Especially if it means a shared clipboard, drag-and-drop between environments, etc.

The reason I want it in a separate window is because I test websites in IE for windows. If I find a problem I like to fix it in dreamweaver for Mac then reload the page in windows.

If I boot into Windows and use Windows Dreamweaver.

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

Windows XP/Vista on one screen, OS X Tiger/Leopard on another screen.... all on one machine. One shared clipboard... oh man....

yeah but still, i only wish you could just Alt-Tab, Command-Enter, or whatever to just swap between -live- sessions of -BOTH- OS'es, just like the old DOS-Compatible Macs of the mid-1990's. (or better yet, a triple-threat session of Windows, OS X, and Linux!) (what for? to show off, of course)

It'd also be a real trip if the new high-end Mac desktops would be quad-core.... 2 cores for XP, 2 cores for OSX.... oh, OH... and how about a quad-core GFX card to match? With this kind of cross-compatibility, I wouldn't be surprised to see Macs shipping with 2, 3, or 4 GB of RAM already built-in in let's say 3 or 4 years.....

[namannik]

Originally Posted by gperks

Can Windows be installed on an external drive, or does it need to be on the internal drive?

From Apple's info doc (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303572):

If you want to start from a bootable external disk, hold the Option key as the computer starts up, then select the external disk.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by BrunoBruin

Anyone else remember this little beauty? It ran System 7 and had an Intel processor card for running DOS/Windows as well.

Hell yeah I remember that thing... I bought a 7100 instead. (I have proof, I still have scars on my knuckles from installing SIMMS in it...)

[mduell]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

[H]ow is "Oh, just reboot into Windows" any different than "Oh, just use Virtual PC?"

All Windows software actually works in native Windows, while it doesn't all work (or perform acceptably) in Virtual PC.

Originally Posted by jamil5454

The Hunt family, like many others, is intrigued by Apple hardware, having never used a Mac before. Apple's been in the hype over the last few years, and their 3-year cycle of buying a new computer is coming to its last days, so they decide to head to the Apple Store to see if a Mac will work for them. Then they find out they can always buy a copy of Windows JUST IN CASE OS X doesn't work for them, so now their Mac hardware won't be useless if they don't like it.

So on top of paying a premium for the hardware, the Hunt family will plan on the possibility of shelling out $200 for Windows if OSX isn't for them.

Originally Posted by olePigeon

...and education. I have a fealing Dell is pretty worried about losing a good chunk of their education market, possibly giving Apple the lead again in the U.S. and extending their lead in European educational markets.

A quick review of the US education market for the last 6 years.
2000 - Apple and Dell neck-and-neck at 20% each
2002 - Apple falls 5 points to 15%, Dell doubles their share to 30%
2004 - Apple maintains 15%, Dell gains 15 point to 45%
Apple is #2, but I don't think Dell is terribly concerned about them; from my experience schools buy based on price (which Dell dominates) and "shiny things to impress parents" (for example when Dell could offer LCDs for the price of Apple's CRT eMacs), not aesthetics.

Originally Posted by kman42

This is just a transitional release because Apple is working on including virtualization in Leopard. They want to release a solution that will be compatible with that when it arrives. My guess is they are working closely with MS on the virtualization solution. It will work essentially like VPC, but run natively. Buy Leopard for $129. Buy Leopard with Vista for $299.

But which Vista? Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, Enterprise, Ultimate?

But seriously, I think bundling the two is a bad idea. Business customers are going to want the business edition; enterprise customers are going to need the enterprise edition; some home users will want the premium edition with the extra media-foo. Bundling Ultimate would solve that problem, but it will probably be rather expensive.

Originally Posted by ajprice

Secondly, has it been stated how well the Windows drivers will be incorporated into XP on Mac? will an iSight or Soundsticks run in Windows, for example?

No, Apple is only including third party drivers (ATi, Intel, etc), not writing any of their own.

[colorblue]

Hi, there,

Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for people to talk to for my Boot Camp story.

I'm all good now, and the story should be up shortly.

Thanks again,
Daniel
CNET News.com

Originally Posted by cnetdan

Hello,

My name is Daniel Terdiman. I'm a reporter with CNET News.com.

I'm writing at 9:55 am pacific time Wednesday April 5. I'm posting here because I'm looking for people to talk to for a story I'm doing on the Mac user community's response to Boot Camp.

If you see this message and have thoughts about this--you love it or you hate it, you think it'll help Apple or that it'll bomb, whatever--and that you'd like to share, I'd be very interested in hearing from you ASAP at the email address below. However, I need to use your real name for my story, so please only contact me if you are willing to have your real name used.

As I mentioned, I need to talk to folks ASAP as I'm doing this story on a pretty tight deadline this morning.

Thanks so much. I look forward to talking to you.

Daniel Terdiman
Staff Writer
CNET News.com
[email protected]

[schalliol]

No way in hell this means the Mac is doomed. Few will buy a Mac to use as a Windows only machine - it'd be silly. Wall street agrees too...

[angelmb]

Come one!, this is huge news for hollywood…

- good guys are going to keep using their eye-catching Macs…

- villians are, in the same way, going to use Macs… they only need to restart them to run Windows…

No more crappy dell at movies. Everybody wins !


Note that the Hulk's 2003 movie showed an iBook running windows full screen, so:

- as daily basis Bruce Banner used to run Mac OS X, that is OK

- once Bruce Banner needed to run some windows only app he had to run windows and then the inner beast was released… indeed, the inner beast was released today.



So far I expect the next Hulk incarnation being blue.

[forkies]

man, this is all over in the news. even sites that i didn't think cared about apple now have articles about this CrAzY news.

[Doofy]

I've not read the previous two pages, so forgive me for repeating anything which has been said...

Why, exactly, is Joe Punter going to buy a Mac which runs Windows when he can go buy a cheapo box for much less which runs Windows? Apple aren't thinking like punters here - they're thinking like geeks.

I fear that this will end in tears. Don't know why but I feel it in my bones.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I've not read the previous two pages, so forgive me for repeating anything which has been said...

Why, exactly, is Joe Punter going to buy a Mac which runs Windows when he can go buy a cheapo box for much less which runs Windows? Apple aren't thinking like punters here - they're thinking like geeks.

I fear that this will end in tears. Don't know why but I feel it in my bones.

Well, it's not like Joe Punter has been buying them anyway.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Well, it's not like Joe Punter has been buying them anyway.

Exactly. Joe Punter hasn't been buying them and probably won't do so in the future. He'll continue to buy the cheapest Windows box available, since he has no clue even what an operating system is, let alone why he'd want to be running a different one on a more expensive machine.

So, other than for developer and geek use, what's the point? Unless Apple has plans to ditch the software side of things and concentrate on selling what it's best at: iPods and iTMS tunes.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I've not read the previous two pages, so forgive me for repeating anything which has been said...

Why, exactly, is Joe Punter going to buy a Mac which runs Windows when he can go buy a cheapo box for much less which runs Windows? Apple aren't thinking like punters here - they're thinking like geeks.

I fear that this will end in tears. Don't know why but I feel it in my bones.

This is a bit like saying, "Yeah, but how do I make toast with it?" Saying that it won't accomplish something it isn't meant to do is a little silly.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Exactly. Joe Punter hasn't been buying them and probably won't do so in the future. He'll continue to buy the cheapest Windows box available, since he has no clue even what an operating system is, let alone why he'd want to be running a different one on a more expensive machine..

This has the upside of luring a few geeks from the otherside as well as giving Gx users an added reason to upgrade to intel.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy

So, other than for developer and geek use, what's the point? Unless Apple has plans to ditch the software side of things and concentrate on selling what it's best at: iPods and iTMS tunes.

You're right, they don't know much. But when they see the "iPod company" selling computers that can also run their Windows software, maybe they'll buy it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakar

This has the upside of luring a few geeks from the otherside

Will the new towers work with the SuperTurboQuadraFX5000 they put in last week and the UltraTurboQuadraFX5050 they're going to put in next week?
I don't see it happening - most of the geeks from the dark side will probably stay there and fiddle with their Linux kernels some more.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

This is a bit like saying, "Yeah, but how do I make toast with it?" Saying that it won't accomplish something it isn't meant to do is a little silly.

So... What, exactly, is it meant to do? Make it easier for Mac users to occasionally boot to Windows or to draw Windows users over to the Mac?