[BadKosh]

Facts mixed with fiction can be propaganda, but facts themselves remain facts. This gives a framework for the propaganda. I parse the sentences for BS. Ever since I learned about how advertising works and its close relationship to propaganda I've done it. I hear radio and TV ad's all the time doing stuff like that. Unfortunately the political pundits do that crap to, which is why I just can't listen. These days I listen to classical music (no words) on my hour+ commutes to and from work. At home I also don't watch or listen to the MSM, or cable 'news' or political pundits.

There is a radio spot for some male enhancement that brags that the stuff is made at "certified USDA Labs"! LOL That doesn't mean the stuff is certified by the USDA.

[The Final Dakar]

Yes, presentation is propaganda, not just content. Using facts about in a misleading way is a big part of propaganda. It gives it the veneer of legitimacy.

This is different from fake news where you say a pizza shop is a pedophile ring and people believe it with no facts.

[BadKosh]

And that story was created to make Hillary etc look bad. Its propaganda. Sure Comet Ping Pong exists (I've eaten there). So that would be the factual part. Would you say omissions in news stories to protect someone is propaganda? Persuasive media is mostly propaganda, be it commercials, opinions stated as facts, and even some parody would be propaganda.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

and for the 3rd time I'll brush you off for requesting proof that water is wet. You earned your label, Bernie bro. Didn't you even help with his campaign as a staffer or similar?

Speaking of fake news.

[besson3c]

Maybe Laminar is actually Bernie Sanders?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

And that story was created to make Hillary etc look bad. Its propaganda. Sure Comet Ping Pong exists (I've eaten there). So that would be the factual part. Would you say omissions in news stories to protect someone is propaganda? Persuasive media is mostly propaganda, be it commercials, opinions stated as facts, and even some parody would be propaganda.

I think the difference is fake news is looking for clicks, not to mislead. That's the difference between the pizza story and the Russian hacks.

[besson3c]

I grow tired of hearing the argument about how politically biased the media is.

The chief problem of the media is that it is lazy and gravitates towards whatever makes money (often at the expense of the truth and/or depth). Bias is just a vehicle to making money, catering towards a calculated target market.

If we were to put our heads together we could come up with dozens of issues that are pretty darn important that have gotten little to no coverage. International news alone is enough to make this argument - there is little money to be made there.

[Waragainstsleep]

Making money is all very well but there is always a price for society to pay. Its past time that profit stopped being sufficient to forgive that cost.

[BadKosh]

News is reporting facts without opinions, in chronological order. Anything else is opinion or propaganda.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

News is reporting facts without opinions, in chronological order. Anything else is opinion or propaganda.

But we don't agree upon what the facts are, so then what?

Would you be happy with more stories about climate change, perhaps citing some of the factual data provided by NASA?

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

But we don't agree upon what the facts are, so then what?

Would you be happy with more stories about climate change, perhaps citing some of the factual data provided by NASA?

Troll much?

NASA has been political since Obama took office, just like the other agencies. But you don't work in DC so you won't understand. YOU have problems of perception so you will need some narrrative associated with your "FACTS" to make you happy. For liberals they see false narratives as facts all day long.

Smart people will tell you the more they know about (insert subject here) the more they realize how much they don't know. You never hear a liberal say that. The think they are smart enough already.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Troll much?

NASA has been political since Obama took office, just like the other agencies. But you don't work in DC so you won't understand. YOU have problems of perception so you will need some narrrative associated with your "FACTS" to make you happy. For liberals they see false narratives as facts all day long.

My point exactly. So, if the news starting running more stories about climate change using data from NASA or anywhere else (it doesn't have to be NASA), you would just classify this as liberal propaganda, and would remain unsatisfied.

The chief problem isn't bias, it's laziness and profit pursuit coming at the expense of truth and depth. This, I think, has encouraged very lazy thinking like what you've shared with us here where the problems are the liberals, or the <insert label here>, because of <insert simple narrative here>. The world is a more complex place, but reporting the extent of this complexity is not a money making operation.

Smart people will tell you the more they know about (insert subject here) the more they realize how much they don't know. You never hear a liberal say that. The think they are smart enough already.

So is man-made climate change a thing or not?

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I grow tired of hearing the argument about how politically biased the media is.

The chief problem of the media is that it is lazy and gravitates towards whatever makes money (often at the expense of the truth and/or depth). Bias is just a vehicle to making money, catering towards a calculated target market.

If we were to put our heads together we could come up with dozens of issues that are pretty darn important that have gotten little to no coverage. International news alone is enough to make this argument - there is little money to be made there.

I apologize for being so direct here, but I've noted a direct correlation between (intelligent, rational) people pooh-poohing the claim of media bias, and those people sharing similar biases to the media.

I offer the idea this bias detection isn't as easy as it appears, which is precisely why the media suffers from it. One can't correct for a problem they aren't aware exists.

[BadKosh]

So Besson, you don't know what facts are? What is your definition of a fact.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

I apologize for being so direct here, but I've noted a direct correlation between (intelligent, rational) people pooh-poohing the claim of media bias, and those people sharing similar biases to the media.

I offer the idea this bias detection isn't as easy as it appears, which is precisely why the media suffers from it. One can't correct for a problem they aren't aware exists.

I don't disagree that bias detection is difficult, or that bias exists. I'm not pooh-poohing it so much as I'm saying that it is a symptom.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

So Besson, you don't know what facts are? What is your definition of a fact.

Is man-made climate change real or not? I asked first.

[BadKosh]

Not to the extent claimed by the zealots.

OK full definition of a FACT.
I asked AGAIN...........

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My point exactly. So, if the news starting running more stories about climate change using data from NASA or anywhere else (it doesn't have to be NASA), you would just classify this as liberal propaganda, and would remain unsatisfied.

Its the DETAILS in how the data was derived, the methodology and the lemma. The conclusions and predictions haven't panned out. That suggests thy don't have a handle on the 'science' yet. None of the computer models have worked for more than a few days. AGW is money driven(redistribution) . Read scam.

[andi*pandi]

Fact:
The house at 123 Macnn Road burned down at 2pm December 16.
Global recorded temperatures are higher than ever before and polar ice is shrinking.

Theories made by educated people:
The fire was likely started by a cigarette in the bedroom, said local firefighter Captain Red Smith.
The warming is likely caused by increased human activity such as manufacturing, combustion vehicles, etc, said respected environmental scientist Jim Pine.

Speculation made by uninformed people:
It's those poor people and their space heaters! Cooking meth in their kitchens!
Warming is caused by BBQing! We should all eat cold vegetables! -or- There is no warming, fire up all the things!

Propaganda/Silly/Fake News
Hillary supporters set a Trump campaign office at 123 Macnn Road on fire today, said alt-right "news" site AAGH.
Trump jet causes global warming, said enviro-blogger Jane Green.

[subego]

Colonel Mustard said it was the candlestick in the billiard room.

[andi*pandi]

He's a lying liar who lies. He was paid off by Soros!

[subego]

Attacking war heroes again?

[andi*pandi]

He doesn't deserve a purple heart, he deserves a purple band aid.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Not to the extent claimed by the zealots.

OK full definition of a FACT.
I asked AGAIN...........

What zealots, and to what extent is it real?

What are you looking for as far as this definition, my ability to look up the word in a dictionary? What is your point? Are you denying that there are people that think that global warming is a hoax? How do you convince these people that a fact is a fact, if they feel like they are being manipulated?

Most people don't have the facility to challenge information, so they trust certain sources, and sometimes when it has been proven that this information or source is dubious they just remain dug in and locked into their viewpoint. So, what good are facts in these circumstances?

Facts are black and white if that is what you are looking for me to say, but this is not a terribly useful statement. OAW is smart, CTP is smart, how many 209348023948 line OAW posts have you seen containing information with citations from at least seemingly plausible sources, yet they can't agree upon this information? The entire PWL wouldn't exist if we could all agree upon what is factual.

If your response is that our emotions get in the way of the facts, this is true and a part of what makes us human. Don't think for a minute that your emotions don't get in the way of your judgment, your insistence on labeling and intellectual laziness is evidence of this fact.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Fact:
The house at 123 Macnn Road burned down at 2pm December 16.
Global recorded temperatures are higher than ever before and polar ice is shrinking.

Theories made by educated people:
The fire was likely started by a cigarette in the bedroom, said local firefighter Captain Red Smith.
The warming is likely caused by increased human activity such as manufacturing, combustion vehicles, etc, said respected environmental scientist Jim Pine.

Speculation made by uninformed people:
It's those poor people and their space heaters! Cooking meth in their kitchens!
Warming is caused by BBQing! We should all eat cold vegetables! -or- There is no warming, fire up all the things!

Propaganda/Silly/Fake News
Hillary supporters set a Trump campaign office at 123 Macnn Road on fire today, said alt-right "news" site AAGH.
Trump jet causes global warming, said enviro-blogger Jane Green.

Nicely done!

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Maybe Laminar is actually Bernie Sanders?

If you guys need any more detective work, you know where to find me.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Fact:
The house at 123 Macnn Road burned down at 2pm December 16.
Global recorded temperatures are higher than ever before and polar ice is shrinking.

Theories made by educated people:
The fire was likely started by a cigarette in the bedroom, said local firefighter Captain Red Smith.
The warming is likely caused by increased human activity such as manufacturing, combustion vehicles, etc, said respected environmental scientist Jim Pine.

Speculation made by uninformed people:
It's those poor people and their space heaters! Cooking meth in their kitchens!
Warming is caused by BBQing! We should all eat cold vegetables! -or- There is no warming, fire up all the things!

Propaganda/Silly/Fake News
Hillary supporters set a Trump campaign office at 123 Macnn Road on fire today, said alt-right "news" site AAGH.
Trump jet causes global warming, said enviro-blogger Jane Green.

Pretty much sums it all up.

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

Seeing some reference to the leaked intel dossier of Trump as fake news which once again indicates people don't understand what fake news is.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

You're right, it's not even fake news, it's just another smear attempt that failed leaving him more powerful than he was before.

[OAW]

Per this report ... citing nearly a dozen different news organizations from around the world ... it's not just one former MI-6 agent saying the Russian government has the goods on Trump. Multiple international intelligence agencies are saying the same thing.

7 Reasons The Russia Controversy Just Got Much Worse For Trump | The Huffington Post

OAW

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Let's see... The Right had the "Birthers", now the Left has the "Pissers".

[starman]

I'm currently dealing with people that can't believe that the pics from the inauguration are true. It's unbelievable that people will believe anything that's fake. Ok, so I ask these people to post aerial shots of the 1.5 million people Trump said where there. Then they start using excuses like "it's a no-fly zone". Ok, so then where are the pics from the tops of buildings showing 1.5 million people? This just goes around and around.

How...HOW are people so stupid?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by starman 

I'm currently dealing with people that can't believe that the pics from the inauguration are true. It's unbelievable that people will believe anything that's fake. Ok, so I ask these people to post aerial shots of the 1.5 million people Trump said where there. Then they start using excuses like "it's a no-fly zone". Ok, so then where are the pics from the tops of buildings showing 1.5 million people? This just goes around and around.

How...HOW are people so stupid?

And what will happen to the Republican party when/if Trump disappoints his supporters and the party is left with people that are split on him, and a broken platform from which to run on?

[starman]

Followup: the White House Press Secretary said that they had "bad numbers" (related to the number of people that used the transit system). That was one of the points I was arguing with this guy I know. So when I said that the WHPS admitted their numbers were wrong, the guy says to me, "you really have no clue". Wait...hang on.....so I'm wrong when the numbers were incorrect, and I'm wrong if the numbers are corrected?

I don't know what reality these people live in.

[BadKosh]

Why not compare photos taken the same time on those inaugurations? Trumps is from 3.5 hours before, Obama's is while he's taking the oath of office.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Why not compare photos taken the same time on those inaugurations? Trumps is from 3.5 hours before, Obama's is while he's taking the oath of office.

Hmmmmm.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by starman 

Followup: the White House Press Secretary said that they had "bad numbers" (related to the number of people that used the transit system).

The damage is done. If the press secretary is willing to lie over something so petty, insignificant and inconsequential, I don't think anyone can take anything he says at face value.

What is more striking is that Trump and his surrogates still seem to be stuck in campaign mode: It's irrelevant now that Trump won in that county or that state, Trump won the election. And now it's time for him to put the big boy pants on and govern. Trump made a lot of promises before the election, and the people who voted for Trump to see change will want to see results.

[The Final Dakar]

They're not stuck in campaign mode. Trump is a narcissist who is obsessed with image. They must satisfy his concerns as such.

[starman]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

They're not stuck in campaign mode. Trump is a narcissist who is obsessed with image. They must satisfy his concerns as such.

Which is why people need to stop interviewing his lapdog KAC, and not pay attention to him outside of his office.

[starman]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Why not compare photos taken the same time on those inaugurations? Trumps is from 3.5 hours before, Obama's is while he's taking the oath of office.

It's irrelevant. I tried. He thinks they're fake.

[andi*pandi]

The Reuters Trump photo was taken at 12, just as the oath was being taken, same as Obama's.

[starman]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

The Reuters Trump photo was taken at 12, just as the oath was being taken, same as Obama's.

This

[OAW]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

The Reuters Trump photo was taken at 12, just as the oath was being taken, same as Obama's.

There's an old saying in the African-American community ...

Some folks just don't believe that fat meat is greasy.

I contend the truth in that statement is most applicable here. Simply because some people just refuse to accept that Trump is by far the most unpopular POTUS to take office in nearly 50 years. In the week before he took office Trump's approval rating was 40 points lower than Obama's was during the equivalent timeframe before he took office. But even with such polling data and photographic evidence staring them right in the face they convince themselves it's some type of "media conspiracy" that Obama's inauguration turnout DWARFED Trump's for no other reason than because they support the man. Quite frankly, it's a mindset I'll never really understand.

OAW