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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Specifics come out on Palin's lack of knowledge

Specifics come out on Palin's lack of knowledge (Page 3)
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Chongo
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Nov 11, 2008, 03:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
"The continent versus the country when we talk about Africa"? What country? Does she think "Africa" is shorthand for Nigeria sometimes?
the one where the speak Afrikaans
45/47
     
besson3c
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Nov 11, 2008, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
the one where the speak Afrikaans
Wait, are you dissing Sarah Palin?
     
CreepDogg
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Nov 11, 2008, 04:07 PM
 
Heh, it's always nice to see confirmation that what comes around goes around...
     
Chongo
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Nov 11, 2008, 05:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
the one where the speak Afrikaans
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Wait, are you dissing Sarah Palin?
No, and Sun City is just a place for old people in AZ
45/47
     
chris v
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Nov 11, 2008, 10:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
People can be really thick. Jay Leno once did one of his Jay Walking segments after the UCLA graduation ceremony. He went up and asked these people in their caps and gowns questions like, "How many moons does the earth have?" The woman's reply: "Oh, geez. I took astronomy forever ago. Uh…uh…uh…two?" He turns her toward where the moon is rising. "How many moons do you see?" She gets all embarrassed and mumbles, "Oh, I thought you meant…uh…I took astronomy forever ago."
How do these sort of people repeatedly find food? G*d, I hate humanity, sometimes. Nah, I really just hate willful ignorance.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
tie
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Nov 12, 2008, 03:50 AM
 
I have some sympathy for McCain on this. If I were running for president, it would never even cross my mind that the person I was considering to be my running mate might not know that Africa was a continent. (On the other hand, call me an elitist, but I would never choose someone who struggled as badly as Palin did just to graduate from college.)
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stupendousman
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Nov 12, 2008, 08:03 AM
 
I have no idea what Sarah Palin does or doesn't know about Africa, since it's pretty much heresay from people with an agenda.

I do know that Obama picked a guy who got caught plagiarizing as an adult and still struggles badly with basic grade school history (among other topics), and isn't afraid to go out on a limb and show it to the world on an ongoing basis.

But, he's JOE BIDEN, so it's okay.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Nov 12, 2008, 08:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by tie View Post
but I would never choose someone who struggled as badly as Palin did just to graduate from college.)
I don't think that's a very good index of measurement. Many very bright people have a hard time in college, often because they don't apply themselves. If you don't know what you want to do, or if you even want to be in college in the first place, it makes it a lot harder to do the necessary work to make it through such programs.

Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I do know that Obama picked a guy who got caught plagiarizing as an adult and still struggles badly with basic grade school history (among other topics), and isn't afraid to go out on a limb and show it to the world on an ongoing basis.
...and yet, with relatively few public appearances, a significant portion of the population thinks he's still a lot smarter than Palin.

greg
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Powerbook
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Nov 12, 2008, 08:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by tie View Post
On the other hand, call me an elitist, but I would never choose someone who struggled as badly as Palin did just to graduate from college.
And what does it mean anyway? Hell, George Dimwit Bush graduated from college! Although he likes to tell stories that he more likely went binging and let others do all the work, but hey...

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Chongo
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Nov 12, 2008, 12:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Powerbook View Post
And what does it mean anyway? Hell, George Dimwit Bush graduated from college! Although he likes to tell stories that he more likely went binging and let others do all the work, but hey...

PB.
... and he had a higher GPA and OCS scores than John Kerry.
45/47
     
stupendousman
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Nov 12, 2008, 12:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
...and yet, with relatively few public appearances, a significant portion of the population thinks he's still a lot smarter than Palin.
No sh*t. How many SNL skits where there this year pointing out how dumb Biden was? How many big stories on it? I mean, if you look at what they've said, Palin makes Biden look like he should be running for the Special Olympics, not VP.

You see...I KNOW why "the public" thinks the way they do. They think that way because the media has told them that. They explained over and over how Palin lacked experience and wasn't smart. They simply didn't explain that Joe Biden was an idiot because they are on his side. They let him slide. Palin was inexperienced. That's her excuse. Poor Joe has no excuse other than the fact that he's simply an idiot.
     
TheMosco
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Nov 12, 2008, 01:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheMosco View Post
"I think the republican ticket represented too much of the status quo, too much of what had gone on in these last 8 years that Americans were shaking their head at..."

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...in.at.home.cnn
Didn't have time at work yesterday to comment, but I think this is a weird comment to make. She didn't say that the ticket was perceived to represent too much of the status quo, she said it represent too much of the status quo. I am wondering if she meant to say that or not.

She said they were different, they were change, they were mavericks but did she even believe herself?
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Nov 12, 2008, 04:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
You see...I KNOW why "the public" thinks the way they do. They think that way because the media has told them that.
Nonsense. They think that way because they watch the Vice-Presidential debate and the couple interviews that she did, and rightfully conclude that she's exactly what she says she is: a regular gal who doesn't know what the VP does, or the specifics on African countries, or Supreme Court cases besides the last controversial one she read about in the paper. And then they conclude that they don't want that type of person running the most powerful country in the world.

(I, for one, don't know anyone of my age who watches SNL. Most people I know don't even watch TV; I don't either.)

Anyway, this is getting tiring. McCain lost, and I have yet to meet a single person (at least here in Canada) who doesn't think it's because of his VP pick. But I'm sure you'll defend to the death; after all, it's always someone else's fault, right?

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Powerbook
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Nov 12, 2008, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
... and he had a higher GPA and OCS scores than John Kerry.
I know and that's why I also wrote "what does it mean anyway"... But I guess of the higher scores is nothing left after a career as alcoholic and cowboy business man. If you look at Kerry and Bush today I hope you don't think these two men are in the same intellectual league?!

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Wiskedjak
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Nov 12, 2008, 10:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Anyway, this is getting tiring. McCain lost, and I have yet to meet a single person (at least here in Canada) who doesn't think it's because of his VP pick. But I'm sure you'll defend to the death; after all, it's always someone else's fault, right?
He has to defend her to death, if he's going to support her Presidential bid just as blindly in 4 years.
     
subego
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Nov 12, 2008, 10:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
You see...I KNOW why "the public" thinks the way they do.

Have you said even one negative thing about Palin?
     
besson3c
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Nov 12, 2008, 11:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I have no idea what Sarah Palin does or doesn't know about Africa, since it's pretty much heresay from people with an agenda.

I do know that Obama picked a guy who got caught plagiarizing as an adult and still struggles badly with basic grade school history (among other topics), and isn't afraid to go out on a limb and show it to the world on an ongoing basis.

But, he's JOE BIDEN, so it's okay.

The ol' "shiny object" distraction argument, a classic!

What you are saying about Biden may very well be true, but we aren't talking about him.
     
stupendousman
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Nov 12, 2008, 11:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Nonsense. They think that way because they watch the Vice-Presidential debate and the couple interviews that she did, and rightfully conclude that she's exactly what she says she is: a regular gal who doesn't know what the VP does, or the specifics on African countries, or Supreme Court cases besides the last controversial one she read about in the paper. And then they conclude that they don't want that type of person running the most powerful country in the world.
AGAIN, why don't they know what an idiot Biden is then? During the VP debate, he spouted off on stuff he knew nothing about, getting most of it wrong. During most any speaking engagement, he says something stupid or just plain ignorant. The man doesn't even know BASIC US/WORLD HISTORY. Why on Earth would they want HIM running the most powerful country in the world? Because he's been around a long time? Because the media respects him? What did he say during his Prime Time "gotcha" interviews? The world wants to know!

[McCain lost, and I have yet to meet a single person (at least here in Canada) who doesn't think it's because of his VP pick.[/quote]

That's some powerful evidence right there. I have yet to meet a single person (at least here in the US) who thinks McCain would have lost worse without Palin (wow..that was an easy rebutal!)

Back to the point (not a "shiny object"). Obama picked an idiot as VP. People say that McCain did the same, but that cost him the election. That makes little logical sense. Then again, the protection the media afforded Biden made little logical sense either, and was entirely partisan.
     
chris v
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Nov 12, 2008, 11:37 PM
 
I like how she's, like, totally, ready to help out Obama in any ol' way he needs help, even though ya know,he's, like, a terrrrrst.

*slaps forehead*

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
Wiskedjak
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Nov 13, 2008, 12:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Back to the point (not a "shiny object"). Obama picked an idiot as VP. People say that McCain did the same, but that cost him the election. That makes little logical sense. Then again, the protection the media afforded Biden made little logical sense either, and was entirely partisan.
Let's assume that the conservative theory of a vast left-wing media monopolization that is conspiring against conservatives is correct.

Why are they doing it?
How did they let Bush get elected? Twice.
     
placebo1969
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Nov 13, 2008, 01:02 AM
 
     
tie
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Nov 13, 2008, 02:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Obama picked an idiot as VP. People say that McCain did the same, but that cost him the election. That makes little logical sense.
Biden isn't an idiot. You are the only person here (and possibly the only person in Canada? ) who thinks that he is. Have you ever listened to him speak? (I have to ask because you previously complained about how mysterious Obama was when you hadn't bothered to read his books.)

From Palin's ABC interview:

PALIN: Now, as for our right to invade, we're going to work with these countries, building new relationships, working with existing allies, but forging new, also, in order to, Charlie, get to a point in this world where war is not going to be a first option. In fact, war has got to be, a military strike, a last option.

GIBSON: But, Governor, I'm asking you: We have the right, in your mind, to go across the border with or without the approval of the Pakistani government.

PALIN: In order to stop Islamic extremists, those terrorists who would seek to destroy America and our allies, we must do whatever it takes and we must not blink, Charlie, in making those tough decisions of where we go and even who we target.

GIBSON: And let me finish with this. I got lost in a blizzard of words there. Is that a yes? That you think we have the right to go across the border with or without the approval of the Pakistani government, to go after terrorists who are in the Waziristan area?

PALIN: I believe that America has to exercise all options in order to stop the terrorists who are hell bent on destroying America and our allies. We have got to have all options out there on the table.
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subego
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Nov 13, 2008, 02:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by placebo1969 View Post

This makes more sense than any other explanation, including the original story being true, but I'm still baffled why Palin didn't present a stronger denial.
     
stupendousman
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Nov 13, 2008, 08:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Why are they doing it?
How did they let Bush get elected? Twice.
A. Clinton fatigue. People were tired of Clinton/Gore the first time around, and already knew what that "brand" was due to experience. Still didn't stop it from being VERY close, especially with all the media hits put out on Bush at the last minute.

B. Kerry was a unlikeable stooge with a clear record of liberal achievement that was too late to hide with clever marketing. If Kerry had been attractive and charismatic, and made a credible claim to moderatism that the media could work with, he probably would have gotten elected as well.

The media is very powerful with their persuasion. That being said, they aren't "all powerful". They've got to have a little help from those whose bidding they are doing. They had help from Obama in that McCain couldn't compete equally in the media due to Obama lying about taking matching funds, and Obama lying about his past and his record. It's hard to overcome that, PLUS the media championing his dishonest efforts. This on top of a mountain of hoaxes about what Palin has done or said.

Originally Posted by tie View Post
Biden isn't an idiot.
He most certainly is. Anyone who will tell Katie Couric "when the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the televison and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened," is an idiot. Of course, for the most part after he said it, the comment died except for conservative blogs and a few other lesser viewed source.

You are the only person here (and possibly the only person in Canada? ) who thinks that he is. Have you ever listened to him speak?
I've heard him speak over and over, and it's often times painful to do.
     
Wiskedjak
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Nov 13, 2008, 09:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
A. Clinton fatigue. People were tired of Clinton/Gore the first time around, and already knew what that "brand" was due to experience. Still didn't stop it from being VERY close, especially with all the media hits put out on Bush at the last minute.

B. Kerry was a unlikeable stooge with a clear record of liberal achievement that was too late to hide with clever marketing. If Kerry had been attractive and charismatic, and made a credible claim to moderatism that the media could work with, he probably would have gotten elected as well.

The media is very powerful with their persuasion. That being said, they aren't "all powerful". They've got to have a little help from those whose bidding they are doing. They had help from Obama in that McCain couldn't compete equally in the media due to Obama lying about taking matching funds, and Obama lying about his past and his record. It's hard to overcome that, PLUS the media championing his dishonest efforts. This on top of a mountain of hoaxes about what Palin has done or said.



He most certainly is. Anyone who will tell Katie Couric "when the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the televison and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened," is an idiot. Of course, for the most part after he said it, the comment died except for conservative blogs and a few other lesser viewed source.



I've heard him speak over and over, and it's often times painful to do.
You've only answered why you believe the media let Bush get elected.

*Why* would the media be conspiring against conservatives?
     
subego
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Nov 13, 2008, 09:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Of course, for the most part after he said it, the comment died except for conservative blogs and a few other lesser viewed source.

I know I only saw it on that bastion of conservatism, The Daily Show.
     
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Nov 13, 2008, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by placebo1969 View Post
That is hilarious.

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stupendousman
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Nov 13, 2008, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
*Why* would the media be conspiring against conservatives?
Is that a trick question?
     
besson3c
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Nov 13, 2008, 01:16 PM
 
Like I said in my message quoted below, media bias is not really the central problem, it is us for allowing them to sell us dog turds...


Sorry, I was just confused how we transitioned from the polls to the media's reporting in general.

I'm not convinced that media bias is the main problem (and I was saying this well before the election too). I'm convinced that the level of substantive reporting is the problem... Instead of fixating on retarded things like wardrobes and lapel pins they should be fixating on things that actually matter - regardless of what sort of ratings they earn from doing so.

Conservatives often bitch about NPR being biased (although it is probably not at the top of their list of shitlist media companies/organizations), but in its defense it is one of few networks that will stretch out a story and give it the complexity it warrants rather than trying to squeeze a story as complicated as the collapse of our lenders to little sound bytes. It is much better to have a biased, in depth story that at least provides people with the opportunity to examine an issue at depth and come to their own conclusion than the briefest of summaries, or emphasis on fluffy stories that don't really matter.

Obviously in a perfect world we would have fair and balanced *and* substantive networks, but I think that there is far more obsession over the fair and balanced part and not enough on the substantiveness.
     
tie
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Nov 13, 2008, 01:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
He most certainly is. Anyone who will tell Katie Couric "when the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the televison and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened," is an idiot. Of course, for the most part after he said it, the comment died except for conservative blogs and a few other lesser viewed source.
Everybody says stupid things once in a while. His 7-11 comment was even dumber than his FDR comment. But on the other hand, he is very capable of discussing policy in substantial and intelligent discussions. Instead of giving a one-line flub, try to find three paragraphs from Biden that are completely idiotic. That's what I tried to do with Palin above.

JIM LEHRER: Senator Biden, extra troops, that issue came up today in a joint press availability in Baghdad with Paul Bremer, and they said that no extra troops were needed, but always looking at that as an issue. What do you think, where do you come down on that?

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN: It's a very unpopular position I've been taking, I've been take it for the last five months, we don't have enough troops there. The idea that you hear Bremer and others and they're good people say that we've trained up 200,000 Iraqi security forces from their civil guard to their police to their army is absolutely preposterous. When Dick Lugar and I were there over a year ago almost now, we met with all our trainers, they say it's going to take at least three years to train up an Iraqi police force, it's going to take that long or longer to train an Iraqi army. The truth of the matter is there is no security but U.S. security, a few Brits, a few Spaniards and a few Poles. It is the United States of America.

JIM LEHRER: And that's not going to change on June 30, right?

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN: It's not going to change, it just going to get worse, so we are the game, we are the totality of the security. And it seems to me we're not leveling with the American people here. This can be done, but remember, we made the announcement as far back as late November of last year to June 30 was the date. Here we are, in April, and they still haven't resolved the dispute in the administration between the State Department and the vice president's office or who ever else is arguing about this as to what is the plan. (link, note the date 4/5/2004)
Look through Palin's interview transcripts and see if you can ever find a substantial discussion of policy. In my above post, I googled the ABC interview transcript, and had a hard time not quoting the whole thing. I love how she replies with the exact same sound bite over and over again. She is very good at memorizing.
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besson3c
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Nov 13, 2008, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by tie View Post
Everybody says stupid things once in a while. His 7-11 comment was even dumber than his FDR comment. But on the other hand, he is very capable of discussing policy in substantial and intelligent discussions. Instead of giving a one-line flub, try to find three paragraphs from Biden that are completely idiotic. That's what I tried to do with Palin above.



Look through Palin's interview transcripts and see if you can ever find a substantial discussion of policy. In my above post, I googled the ABC interview transcript, and had a hard time not quoting the whole thing. I love how she replies with the exact same sound bite over and over again. She is very good at memorizing.

I agree. Find me one example of Palin saying something that wasn't simply simplistic philosophy?
     
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Nov 13, 2008, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by tie View Post
Everybody says stupid things once in a while. His 7-11 comment was even dumber than his FDR comment.
That's my point. With Biden, it's not just "once in a while" that he says something colossally stupid. Whenever he's allowed to speak for more than a few minutes to a group he's liable to say something extremely embarrassing and idiotic.

But on the other hand, he is very capable of discussing policy in substantial and intelligent discussions.
I've heard Palin have substantial and intelligent policy discussions as well. I watched the Alaska governor debates AND the VP debates and she held her own. That is despite for the VP debates having about a year or two less time than either Obama or Biden to prepare. That right there shows that she's no idiot. Again, if she's rough around the edges, she has an excuse in her lack of experience talking to the "big media" and that's something that can be overcome in time. Joe Biden has no excuse other than the fact that he's an idiot.

I like Sarah Palin, and I've heartily enjoyed her arrival on the national stage. As a career classroom teacher, I can see how smart she is -- and quite frankly, I think the people who don't see it are the stupid ones, wrapped in the fuzzy mummy-gauze of their own worn-out partisan dogma. So she doesn't speak the King's English -- big whoop! There is a powerful clarity of consciousness in her eyes. She uses language with the jumps, breaks and rippling momentum of a be-bop saxophonist. I stand on what I said (as a staunch pro-choice advocate) in my last two columns -- that Palin as a pro-life wife, mother and ambitious professional represents the next big shift in feminism. Pro-life women will save feminism by expanding it, particularly into the more traditional Third World.

As for the Democrats who sneered and howled that Palin was unprepared to be a vice-presidential nominee -- what navel-gazing hypocrisy! What protests were raised in the party or mainstream media when John Edwards, with vastly less political experience than Palin, got John Kerry's nod for veep four years ago? And Gov. Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas, for whom I lobbied to be Obama's pick and who was on everyone's short list for months, has a record indistinguishable from Palin's. Whatever knowledge deficit Palin has about the federal bureaucracy or international affairs (outside the normal purview of governors) will hopefully be remedied during the next eight years of the Obama presidencies.

Camille Paglia
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/...in/index1.html

My point is the same as Camille's. People who are opposed to Palin where already pre-disposed to do so, or did so based on what the media told them. Otherwise, they'd never be able to vote for Joe Biden, or John Edwards or even Obama.
     
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Nov 13, 2008, 01:48 PM
 
I will *gladly* change my tune stupendousman, if you are able to find something where she isn't just saying pretty simplistic stuff. I *promise* that I will look at it objectively, as I honestly think and would like to think that she is smart, I just seriously have yet to see this demonstrated.
     
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Nov 13, 2008, 02:03 PM
 
I wasn't really predisposed to dislike Palin. I didn't know anything about her when she was nominated. I disliked her based entirely on her own merits.
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Nov 13, 2008, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
I wasn't really predisposed to dislike Palin. I didn't know anything about her when she was nominated. I disliked her based entirely on her own merits.
That's the same thing that got me: almost every woman I know, from the moment I know, championed the choice as a "great pick" and one that would sway the election and McCain's favour.

It was only a couple weeks before each and every one of them had the complete opposite view. And to me, that means something.

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Nov 13, 2008, 02:33 PM
 
As an Obama voter, Palin was pretty much medialized to the fullist. They picked Obama, and made sure Sarah wasn't going to be anyone's media darling.

Sad too. Some are believing that's she's actually stupid.

The partisan BS needs to stop.

And for the most part, there are still a lot of men that have problems with women with a strong opinion. ESPECIALLY if it doesn't match their own. It comes off sexist even though it is probably more insecurity.
     
besson3c
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Nov 13, 2008, 02:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by linger View Post
As an Obama voter, Palin was pretty much medialized to the fullist. They picked Obama, and made sure Sarah wasn't going to be anyone's media darling.

Sad too. Some are believing that's she's actually stupid.

The partisan BS needs to stop.

And for the most part, there are still a lot of men that have problems with women with a strong opinion. ESPECIALLY if it doesn't match their own. It comes off sexist even though it is probably more insecurity.

I don't think that she is stupid, I probably shouldn't have implied that. It is difficult finding a way to say what I want to say, but let me try again...

I think that she says a lot of really simplistic things in her interviews which demonstrate either:

1) A lack of comfort with the subject matter or the particular environment
2) Playing it really safe, speaking in a very guarded fashion and not going out on any limbs
3) She really does see things that simply and lacks the capacity to be any more intellectual than she comes across

I was bewildered at Bush for the same reasons too, but had the general impression that he wasn't necessarily one to play it safe, so was either #1 or #3. With Palin, I'm not yet sure.

With Biden, his foot-in-the-mouth often comes from not playing it safer and being a little too candid and unthoughtful. Discipline in this regard is not one of his strong suits. Still, there have been occasions where he has gone beyond the simplicity of Bush and Palin, which makes me less inclined to lump him in the same category.
     
linger
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Nov 13, 2008, 03:02 PM
 
I don't think she is any less qualified right now than Obama. Even though I voted for Obama, I know that simply because he's A better orator when given lines, doesn't suddenly make him a better president. I tried hard to distance myself from the ooohing and aaahing of the media's obamessiah. I didn't follow that route.

But Mrs Palin I have also been watching from afar. And even before said election I gained respect for her (I don't care if you have a R or D next to your name) because some of her actions that went against typical government goings on. She'd be a good president to cut the pork if you will.

The media was however on the attack AS SOON as she was announced. I know of 7 stories about her that hit the newspapers and NONE were true. Yet there are many stories people still believe are. It's not what's true, it's what they can get to stick in the minds of the people. And this is sort of a media brainwashing. And I feel offended by it. I feel they think I'm stupid. (Or at least hope)

I wasn't that much of a McCain guy back when he was being used as a shill against Bush in 2004. But suddenly now in 2008 he is McSame? How does one go from being the anti-Bush to being the same?

Or when Biden told Kerry that he should ask McCain to be his vice president etc. I didn't read or hear hardly ANY of this in the media. I however thought McCain was a bit too old to be running. Maybe 10 years ago. The media wants their rock star now. But it if does America good then, let it be. We shall see.

BTW Palin is still getting attacked BTW just in case she decides to run again. She's already been misquoted many times on something she recently said. I'm sure it's not done on purpose..
     
besson3c
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Nov 13, 2008, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by linger View Post
I don't think she is any less qualified right now than Obama. Even though I voted for Obama, I know that simply because he's A better orator when given lines, doesn't suddenly make him a better president. I tried hard to distance myself from the ooohing and aaahing of the media's obamessiah. I didn't follow that route.
Firstly, it is a myth that those lines are not his own. Granted, every president relies on some speech writers for some things, but Obama actually does write many of his own speeches (including the lengthy ones he gave on racism, patriotisim, etc.), and according to his publisher he wrote his own books too. Of course, we don't actually *know* this to be true, but I've also seen little evidence to the contrary either, so I'm inclined to believe this.

As far as qualifications, being an orator is a *very* important qualification, make no mistake about it. As far as other qualifications, we each value things differently and weigh things differently, so we'd have to first define what qualifications we are looking for before we could debate this properly.

But Mrs Palin I have also been watching from afar. And even before said election I gained respect for her (I don't care if you have a R or D next to your name) because some of her actions that went against typical government goings on. She'd be a good president to cut the pork if you will.
I'm undecided about this, because there are a few areas that demonstrate her lack of willingness to cut pork too. This isn't to say that this doesn't apply to Obama too.

The media was however on the attack AS SOON as she was announced. I know of 7 stories about her that hit the newspapers and NONE were true. Yet there are many stories people still believe are. It's not what's true, it's what they can get to stick in the minds of the people. And this is sort of a media brainwashing. And I feel offended by it. I feel they think I'm stupid. (Or at least hope)
The media was on her because nobody knew who she was, so she became the latest shiny object for them to fixate on. Most of the stuff they dug up was irrelevant too, but then again, a lot of irrelevant stuff was dug up about all candidates, so this comes down to score keeping.

I wasn't that much of a McCain guy back when he was being used as a shill against Bush in 2004. But suddenly now in 2008 he is McSame? How does one go from being the anti-Bush to being the same?
I don't know what people were saying in the past about him, I wasn't really paying attention, but I think a good case can be made that in recent years he has been very supportive of Bush's policies.

Or when Biden told Kerry that he should ask McCain to be his vice president etc. I didn't read or hear hardly ANY of this in the media. I however thought McCain was a bit too old to be running. Maybe 10 years ago. The media wants their rock star now. But it if does America good then, let it be. We shall see.
Is it not possible, purely hypothetically speaking, that people can change in 10 years? I know my opinions have changed in the last 10 years on many things...

BTW Palin is still getting attacked BTW just in case she decides to run again. She's already been misquoted many times on something she recently said. I'm sure it's not done on purpose..
I guess the fake McCain aid thing was pretty inexcusable. I don't know why they wouldn't have vetted their source, so I'll agree that they are too obsessed over her now. However, by doing all of these interviews now it seems like she is seeking this sort of attention. I mean, there is nothing wrong with doing interviews, she shouldn't be punished for doing them, but the fact that she is making it a point to do them now that she no longer has to be controlled by campaign management is sort of red meat for reporters - it's the ultimate shiny object. If this continues, it will become rather freak showish...
     
SpaceMonkey
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Nov 13, 2008, 03:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
With Biden, his foot-in-the-mouth often comes from not playing it safer and being a little too candid and unthoughtful. Discipline in this regard is not one of his strong suits. Still, there have been occasions where he has gone beyond the simplicity of Bush and Palin, which makes me less inclined to lump him in the same category.
And therein lies the rub. Biden's gaffes were forgettable because it was easy to understand the point behind them. Palin's gaffes were worrisome because you couldn't understand what she was thinking.

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Nov 13, 2008, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Is that a trick question?
Only if you can't come up with an honest answer.
     
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Nov 13, 2008, 05:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The media was on her because nobody knew who she was, so she became the latest shiny object for them to fixate on. Most of the stuff they dug up was irrelevant too, but then again, a lot of irrelevant stuff was dug up about all candidates, so this comes down to score keeping.
Which makes this exchange between Tom Brokaw and Charlie Rose all the more troubling.
45/47
     
besson3c
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Nov 13, 2008, 05:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Which makes this exchange between Tom Brokaw and Charlie Rose all the more troubling.
This is a flawed argument.

What do we "know" about any candidate? Really, think about it...

What do we know about McCain? We know that he was a war hero. Okay, how does that translate into being a president, and how do we actually know that it does? We know that he voted against Bush in the past, but how do we know that he hasn't changed his mind on some things, or that he would continue to do so if Bush were to remain in office?

Face it, we don't know anything about any candidate, and we never will. All we have is our personal assessment, and a myriad of tidbits of information and records to cherry pick from and assign value to as we see fit out of the subset of what is revealed and made public (and what we choose to believe transpired).

What made Palin a little different was that nobody was even trying to learn about her prior to her being announced as VP, because she wasn't on anybody's radar. Obama at least had been running for years in advance of this announcement. However, like I said, even if Palin had been running for the same amount of time Obama had, we still wouldn't really "know" anything about her.

If everybody had the ability to truly know everybody, why is our divorce rate so high?
     
tie
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Nov 13, 2008, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
That's my point. With Biden, it's not just "once in a while" that he says something colossally stupid. Whenever he's allowed to speak for more than a few minutes to a group he's liable to say something extremely embarrassing and idiotic.
You are just exaggerating. He spoke for what, 45 minutes at the VP debate? Find me the 15 extremely embarrassing and idiotic things he said during it.

I've heard Palin have substantial and intelligent policy discussions as well.
Feel free to give us an extended quote, if you can find one. I gave you one of Biden calling for the surge three years before the surge. (How many thousands of lives would have been saved if we'd listened to him?) It is possible that one or two such quotes from Palin exist (three I doubt), so this should be easier to do than supporting your claim that Nobel science prizes were doled out based on politics.
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Nov 13, 2008, 10:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
And therein lies the rub. Biden's gaffes were forgettable because it was easy to understand the point behind them. Palin's gaffes were worrisome because you couldn't understand what she was thinking.
Speak for yourself.

What exactly was the point behind claiming Roosevelt got up on TV and calmed the nation?

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
It was only a couple weeks before each and every one of them had the complete opposite view. And to me, that means something.
See above. I explained how that works.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I will *gladly* change my tune stupendousman, if you are able to find something where she isn't just saying pretty simplistic stuff. I *promise* that I will look at it objectively, as I honestly think and would like to think that she is smart, I just seriously have yet to see this demonstrated.
You've set for yourself the wrong standard. It's the same thing that they did to Reagan. Reagan was said to be uninterested in the nuances of policy and was arguably one of our better Presidents. Carter could go on and on about the minutia of EVERYTHING and talk about it in an intelligent way, and was arguably one of our worse Presidents. Simply being a verbal blowhard and knowing details does not make one a good leader or even "smart". Especially when they don't know even the most basic points in American history.
( Last edited by stupendousman; Nov 14, 2008 at 07:26 AM. )
     
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Nov 13, 2008, 10:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by tie View Post
You are just exaggerating. He spoke for what, 45 minutes at the VP debate? Find me the 15 extremely embarrassing and idiotic things he said during it.
I'm really not going to enumerate them all. I have a life and occasionally get to have sex. Time is precious. What I will do is point to someone else who saw the same thing. He quite humorously refers the the phenomena that sucks you into thinking Biden is smart as Biden's "warm fog of deceitful gassbaggery". He explains it in the following link:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...E2M2QyY2NkNjM=

Feel free to give us an extended quote, if you can find one.
Just today, she said intelligent things about the economy:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/...rga/index.html

Not once did she say something racist, sexist, factually incorrect or totally in opposition of actual reported history. I can't remember the last time Joe Biden spoke at length and accomplished that.
     
besson3c
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Nov 13, 2008, 11:20 PM
 
What did you find intelligent in there stupendousman, just so I have a frame of reference?
     
Wiskedjak
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Nov 13, 2008, 11:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Just today, she said intelligent things about the economy:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/...rga/index.html

Not once did she say something racist, sexist, factually incorrect or totally in opposition of actual reported history. I can't remember the last time Joe Biden spoke at length and accomplished that.
Based on the article, she said:
"We're hearing now more talk of additional taxpayer bailouts ... for companies, for corporations, perhaps even states now who may be standing in line with their hands out despite, perhaps, some poor management decisions on their part that helped tank our economy,"

Palin stressed the need for what she called greater economic "accountability and personal responsibility" while urging "conservative solutions to these economic challenges."

her fellow Republican governors were ready to put aside "extreme partisanship" and act if Washington fails to provide the leadership America needs.

She told them not to "let obsessive, extreme partisanship ... get in the way of doing what's right."

"I think that this group is going to be looked to and looked at for leadership that perhaps had been lacking in Congress and in Washington, D.C.," she said. "This group is going to be uniquely qualified to provide leadership in this nation."

"For us, it was not our time. It was not our moment."

She complimented President-elect Barack Obama, saying she wishes him "well as the 44th president of the United States. If he governs with the skill, and the grace, and the greatness of which he is capable, we're going to be just fine."Video

"As far as we're concerned, the past is the past," she said. "We're focused on the future. [The future] is next year, and our next budgets, and the next reforms in our states."
What part of that did you find interesting?

What *I* found interesting was this:
Some Republican governors told CNN they were not particularly happy with the way the RGA press conference was executed Thursday, saying they agreed to go as a show of GOP governors' unity, but they ended up feeling like silent Palin supporters, because it was clearly a press conference called for her.

Another Republican governor eyeing a presidential run in 2012 told CNN the event was "odd" and "weird," and said it "unfortunately sent a message that she was the de facto leader of the party."

In an interview with CNN, it was suggested to Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour that there has been a feeling among some GOP governors gathered in Miami that Palin has been sucking up all the media oxygen.

In another shift, Palin, who had been slated to take questions for 20 minutes or so, took just four reporter queries before Texas Gov. Rick Perry ended the news conference ... "We were running behind schedule," Perry said.
     
ironknee
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Nov 13, 2008, 11:41 PM
 
who was that guy that "man handled'" Palin in the "press conference"?

she looked like a rag doll...

please god, with your help she will keep talking

edit: how soon will she be on 60 minutes?

I say sooner than later...maybe before the year end?

what do you think?
     
tie
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Nov 14, 2008, 12:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
"Feel free to give us an extended quote, if you can find one."

Just today, she said intelligent things about the economy:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/...rga/index.html

Not once did she say something racist, sexist, factually incorrect or totally in opposition of actual reported history. I can't remember the last time Joe Biden spoke at length and accomplished that.
Sorry, I didn't see any extended quotes or transcript at the link you posted, just a few soundbites. Can you give a direct link?
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