[olePigeon]

Rush Limbaugh is already yammering about the Obama Recession. Did I miss something, or is it already January? Oh, apparently I missed Christmas.

[PaperNotes]

Well, the recession is happening in large part due to the credit crisis which was brought on by banks being forced to give mortgages and loans by Democrats, Obama and groups like ACORN.

[Wiskedjak]

yes, because Bush was powerless these last 8 years ...

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Well, the recession is happening in large part due to the credit crisis which was brought on by banks being forced to give mortgages and loans by Democrats, Obama and groups like ACORN.

Yeah, just keep repeating that little myth and maybe someday someone will believe it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Yeah, just keep repeating that little myth and maybe someday someone will believe it.

I don't think that's a 'maybe'. There are already *plenty* who believe it.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Rush Limbaugh is already yammering about the Obama Recession. Did I miss something, or is it already January? Oh, apparently I missed Christmas.

What you missed is that the market is dominated by forecasts and outlooks that span anywhere from 6 to 12 months ahead. You missed the incredible decline in Dow Jones upon Obama's victory. He gave details about what has been the largest market sell-off after an election in US history. He also went on to say that the new president promised to increase corporate taxes, increase capital gains by a third, increase the top marginal tax rate on income, impose a massive new energy tax that would bankrupt the coal industry, government take-over of 401Ks and put them into a Social Security trust fund (yes, the same one that is essentially bankrupt because Washington can't keep its hands out of this "lock box"), lock your contribution to 5% with a guaranteed 3% return. Worse, he's shown no signs of acting much differently to this financial crisis than Bush himself, with an abysmal approval rating and a government growth at unprecedented rates. The market doesn't like any of these things.

You may not like how Rush delivers his message, but it doesn't mean he's necessarily incorrect in his assessment. Besides, if we're still experiencing our economic woes well into the Obama presidency (which most experts suggest we will be), than it will most definitely be the Obama recession. Like I always say, the referendum wheel spins in both directions. May as well prepare for the Republican take-over in 2010.

[chris v]

ACORN forced me to buy a house! Now Obama will pay me for it with Paper Notes' hard-earned tax dollars, while I sit here in my gold-plated Cadillac insurance policy and listen to rap all day, while skipping out on child support payments.

Stupid ACORN!

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Yeah, just keep repeating that little myth and maybe someday someone will believe it.

It's no myth.

Did Democrats push the Community Reinvestment Act for more than 25 years? Yes.

Did Obama as a lawyer represent such groups and take a bank to court to push for mortgages and loans? Yes.

Did Obama recently say the CRA hasn't been pushed enough? Yes.

Is Obama the third largest recepient of donations from Freddie and Fannie? Yes.

Were Democrats given jobs with companies like Freddie and Fannie for their help in pushing the CRA, which Freddie and Fannie thought they were going to get rich off of? Yes.

Did ACORN members use intimidation tactics against bank managers? Yes.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by chris v 

ACORN forced me to buy a house!

lol, very funny. Sure, much blame resides on people taking on debt they can't afford, but when a bank is told they have to give loans to people then those loans will be taken up.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Rush Limbaugh is already yammering about the Obama Recession. Did I miss something, or is it already January? Oh, apparently I missed Christmas.

don't cha know that bush can't do anything wrong?

[finboy]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

What you missed is that the market is dominated by forecasts and outlooks that span anywhere from 6 to 12 months ahead. You missed the incredible decline in Dow Jones upon Obama's victory. He gave details about what has been the largest market sell-off after an election in US history. He also went on to say that the new president promised to increase corporate taxes, increase capital gains by a third, increase the top marginal tax rate on income, impose a massive new energy tax that would bankrupt the coal industry, government take-over of 401Ks and put them into a Social Security trust fund (yes, the same one that is essentially bankrupt because Washington can't keep its hands out of this "lock box"), lock your contribution to 5% with a guaranteed 3% return. Worse, he's shown no signs of acting much differently to this financial crisis than Bush himself, with an abysmal approval rating and a government growth at unprecedented rates. The market doesn't like any of these things.

You may not like how Rush delivers his message, but it doesn't mean he's necessarily incorrect in his assessment. Besides, if we're still experiencing our economic woes well into the Obama presidency (which most experts suggest we will be), than it will most definitely be the Obama recession. Like I always say, the referendum wheel spins in both directions. May as well prepare for the Republican take-over in 2010.

Note too how the upcoming administration is backing off -- quickly -- from it's agenda of "screw the productive, er, rich".

I agree that Rush is sometimes an idiot, but sometimes he gets things right too. Someone who was pretty bright must have told him to hit this point. The market collapse since the election isn't from anything that Bush did or didn't do, nor is it from the 20+ years that we've been giving loans to people who couldn't (or wouldn't) pay them back. The market responds to THE FUTURE. And THE FUTURE doesn't look so good right now, partly because we have to get out of The Left's home lending mess, but also because "soak the rich" isn't going to work to keep us stable as a nation. And EVERYONE knows it, including the Obama crew.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

l much blame resides on people taking on debt they can't afford, but when a bank is told they have to give loans to people then those loans will be taken up.

This is chump change -- like 100th of 1% of the actual problem of mortgage-backed securities, and the weird debt swap instruments, that were actually insurance policies against the default of mortgage-backed securities that were sold again and again to the point that trillions of of dollars worth of paper debt was being furiously moved from bank to bank, underwritten by maybe 100 billion dollars worth of actual mortgages. ACORN didn't do that. Really. No, really.

This is like Reagan blaming welfare moms for the debt problems of the federal govt. when it would have taken an army of 500 million welfare moms to equal one single military boondoggle, like Star Wars.

[ort888]

Yes, it was all the democracts fault... never mind all of the republican efforts to deregulate the banking industry... that had nothing to do with it at all.

Just face it... both parties are to blame for this mess. If the Democrats had caused this meltdown, the republicans would have been all over it, hammering it home and McCain would have won the election. Funny thing is, that he wasn't able to put forth a compelling argument for that, so he lost. He didn't even really try to pin this mess on the democrats did he? Why was that? With the highest office in the world at stake, why would he not point out that the democrats were responsible for this whole mess like you guys seem to believe?

[macintologist]

Obama's supporters will successfully blame all economic problems on Bush that happen under Obama's tenure.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

Obama's supporters will successfully blame all economic problems on Bush that happen under Obama's tenure.

Maybe. It certainly worked for the Republicans to blame all of Bush's problems on Clinton.

[tie]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

Obama's supporters will successfully blame all economic problems on Bush that happen under Obama's tenure.

Probably true. Bush has certainly left the country badly enough off for that argument to be credible.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Yes, it was all the democracts fault... never mind all of the republican efforts to deregulate the banking industry... that had nothing to do with it at all.

It was regulation and lawyers that forced banks to give out money, not deregulation. Banks rely on credit agencies for a reason, and it was regulators who said this was no good because it meant a section of the public couldn't get loans.

Just face it... both parties are to blame for this mess.

Yeah, of course but nearly all of it is on the Democrat plate. Please don't play that immature American college game (Left vs Right, Dems vs Repubs) with me. It's boring.

If the Democrats had caused this meltdown, the republicans would have been all over it, hammering it home and McCain would have won the election.

They were all over it, right at the end though. There are dozens of YouTube videos of mainstream news reports and McCain challenging Obama on his ties to Freddie and Fannie.

http://youtube.com/results?search_qu...rch_type=&aq=f

http://youtube.com/results?search_qu...rch_type=&aq=f

This allowed McCain to close the gap in the popular vote by election night, but it was too late because Palin just brought his campaign down too much.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Please don't play that immature American college game (Left vs Right, Dems vs Repubs) with me. It's boring.

But, you're so good at it!

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Yeah, of course but nearly all of it is on the Democrat plate. Please don't play that immature American college game (Left vs Right, Dems vs Repubs) with me. It's boring.

wow

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Yeah, of course but nearly all of it is on the Democrat plate. Please don't play that immature American college game (Left vs Right, Dems vs Repubs) with me. It's boring.

This paragraph is kind of…uh…WTF?

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I don't think that's a 'maybe'. There are already *plenty* who believe it.

But no one cares. I just want that boob Bush out of the job of running the country.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

It was regulation and lawyers that forced banks to give out money, not deregulation. Banks rely on credit agencies for a reason, and it was regulators who said this was no good because it meant a section of the public couldn't get loans. (...)
Yeah, of course but nearly all of it is on the Democrat plate. Please don't play that immature American college game (Left vs Right, Dems vs Repubs) with me. It's boring.

I have concluded that you are utterly insane.

[besson3c]

chris v: you are insane because you are an ACORN. I have a YouTube video about that somewhere...

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Well, the recession is happening in large part due to the credit crisis which was brought on by banks being forced to give mortgages and loans by Democrats, Obama and groups like ACORN.

Don't be stupid. The mortgage and loans market was consistently deregulated by Republicans so the mortgage and lending companies could charge completely outrageous interest plans on low income families qualified through ACORN. So instead of supporting the spirit of ACORN, the companies took complete advantage of the deregulation and screwed over people. In an inflated real estate market with some areas growing as much as 20% year over, it was worth it to have the home foreclosed on, wait 6 months, then the bank sells it at a profit.

The whole point was to make affordable lending contracts for people who might otherwise not afford existing rates. The bank or lender got the same (or more) money in the end, but the payments were spread out much further. With regulation now back in place, the government is doing exactly what ACORN was attempting to do in the first place. Renegotiate mortgages for people who can't afford them into something they can afford, without the bank or lender losing money, and keeping the home from being foreclosed on and devaluing the property.

Leave it to politicians to take a good idea and turn it into a money making scheme.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by chris v 

This is like Reagan blaming welfare moms for the debt problems of the federal govt. when it would have taken an army of 500 million welfare moms to equal one single military boondoggle, like Star Wars.

True, but unlike welfare moms, lasers are awesome.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

lol, very funny. Sure, much blame resides on people taking on debt they can't afford, but when a bank is told they have to give loans to people then those loans will be taken up.

The bank or lender is stupid enough for not reevaluating their investment plan for longer term mortgages that pay out the same profit (or more) than shorter term loans; knowing full well that if they have to give out a loan, why not make a loan (or renegotiate) that won't default and lose money on.

That's about as stupid as Ford, GM, and Chevrolet asking for bailout money because they invested in gas guzzlers while gasoline was pushing $4.00/gallon. They're ridiculously incompetent.

[chris v]

Oh, BTW, Obama started this recession back in Dec. 2007. He has time travel powars! Awesome!1!

[Wiskedjak]

I can't imagine why he'd even *want* to be President ... it sounds like he had more power and less accountability as a senator.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I can't imagine why he'd even *want* to be President ... it sounds like he had more power and less accountability as a senator.

Believe it or not, life isn't all about more power & less accountability to some of us. But yeah, he's been 'pre-legacied" by Bush.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I can't imagine why he'd even *want* to be President ... it sounds like he had more power and less accountability as a senator.

4 years (or 8) of working and then you don't have to work another day of your life. Plus, you get to be called Mr. President until you die.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Leave it to politicians to take a good idea and turn it into a money making scheme.

Ha, it wouldn't be so bad if politicians ever COULD do that. Mostly they take bad ideas and turn them into money-tossing down a rathole schemes.

Anyway, you're grossly over simplifying the whole mortgage crisis in order to shift the blame entirely to Republicans. They of course had a role in it, but to deny that Democrats didn't also is just asinine. Bush and some Republicans in congress DID try to pass regulations, and warned that Freddy and Fannie were in trouble, only to be blocked by Dems, and having asshats like Barney Frank lie (repeatedly, and as recently as Sept. this year) that everything was juuuuust peachy.

Key from the above article from 2003:

'These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''