[godzookie2k]

I'm in a funny situation. Some advice is needed.

3 months ago a certain award winning design studio came to me to do some freelance web programming for them. Our contract said that they would come to me with designs for a preliminary website to their "actual" website. It was my job to implement them using whatever solution I thought was best. Afterwards I would be given the designs for the much larger in scope "real" version of their site. This preliminary site needed to be created fast to get something "up on the web". There was never an "You can't go above this amount of time" number set, but time was obviously a major concern. They agreed to my pay rate and sent me the designs a few days later. Long story short its three months later and this site is still not up yet due to numerous redesigns on their part (AFTER I programmed a version, they redesign). I've been very prompt about getting stuff back to them (usually after a few sleepless days and nights) but then they would come back and say, oh we don't like it we'll get a new ____ page designed for you in a few days. Then a few weeks would go past with unanswered phone calls and emails. Then I'd get new designs and the process would repeat.

Initially I agreed that they would pay me after delivery of a final preliminary site. (I assumed that, with the need for speed I'd crank it out and not have to deal with being paid over time since there wasn't supposed to be much time)Well, two months of the above go by and finally the site is nearing completion. Then they redesign again. Being fed up by now I tell them that I am submitting an invoice due to the unexpected length of this project. Wanting to finish it up I actually don't even bill for the hours spent on the latest redesign, I just want to get paid and go home. I do the work, submit the invoice, send everything for their approval. A month later they come back to me and said that they would not pay me for the hours that I billed for as they didn't think that the work I did "deserved" the full amount of time.

Aside: The amount of hours I billed for was less than 40 hours. They were increasingly concerned about hours as the project wore on.

They said that I couldn't bill them for the previous redesigns because they considered it "tweaking" and that it was my fault and that I shouldn't bill for it. They want to pay me for 2/3 of the hours that I billed.

Now I am stuck. Do I:

a) take what they want to give me and just chalk it up to a bad experience?

b) refuse to deliver the site at all until full payment is received

c) deliver the site where it is at (incomplete) without original editable source files in exchange for the measly paycheck and refuse to do the next site?

d) report them to the BBB and sic a lawyer on their ass.

I really hate when client relationships go sour, it hasn't happened very often but I'm really not a big fan of being taken advantage of, and I certaintly don't want the reputation of a designer that can be treated like **** . So, any more experienced designers want to toss some advice?


nick

[Griggsy]

kinda in a similar situation, so can sympathise, however the one thing I made sure was to send an invoice about the agreed done work before went ahead (the fact that I did more than was asked was irrelevant, because I had already scoped the work before hand and knew where there was give and take!) but that doesn't solve your problem. Still doesn't solve that I'm still due 45% of my fee two weeks after the job was complete and therefore when payment was due!

As far as I can see, it's irrelevant if the client consider's what your doing is tweaking, you still have to sit down and do it, whether it's tweaking or design. Also remember unless told otherwise or originally stipulated it should all be still your work, it's not theirs until they pay for it, so you could hold it to ransom. Also as a last resort maybe consider a reduced tweaking rate!. But otherwise they sound like scum and should be eradicated forthwith!

[ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: Griggsy ]

[bluedog]

A good contract signed and approved before the project starts will prevent SOME of those things from happening. Like stating that payment is due 1/2 amount upon first revision, final amount due on completion. Including a provision for cancellation of project and payment due in that circumstance. If you were paid on an hourly rate (rather than a flat fee) then say invoicing will occur every 10 hours or such.

I suggest looking into some organizations for specific advice and templates on freelance contracts. I've used several from the Graphic Artists Guild in the past. Ultimately the contract is designed to protect BOTH you and your client. Hopefully you have some sort of written and agreed upon details for this project (look back at letters or email).

Even if a project seems to be small, a contract draws up the level of expectations and clarifies and provides a basis for legal action, if necessary.

Good luck and hopefully you'll get what you deserve.

[ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: bluedog ]

[mitchell_pgh]

I think you should upgrade your contract to include some of these items. I have had so many MAJOR projects turn out to be the quickest and some of the smallest project take months (I'm talking about a tiny brochure).

I bill monthly not ALL OF THE TIME! If they don't want me to bill them monthly, I don't do the project for these reasons. I think once you send a bill or two, people start trying to finish things up fast...

[Too Much Coffee Woman]

You should have worked some of this out like everybody said in the beginning.

I'm a member of an organization called AIGA. (American Institute of Graphic Arts) if you're part of an organization, like that...ask them for advice.

or just check this page from AIGA's website
http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm?CategoryID=111

[jholmes]

The Graphic Arts Guild is another good source for contracts and billing info.

I've found that if you talk to a principal and explain the situation you can often get it resolved By talking with the bigwig. If it is their corporate site, be sure to point out that your charges are tax deductible to them as an advertising expense.

Good luck and next time ask for a PO!

[ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: jholmes ]

[godzookie2k]

Yeah, between getting my car wrecked in parking lot (not parking far away as usual because of rush), this and some other things its been a month of Nick being like "If only I had done it the way that I usually do..." Ahhhs well. live and learn, I'm only happy that this is more about the principle rather than the money (total sum is playstation 2 and bar tab change ). I'm debating whether or not I want to even bother involving my lawyer or not, don't know if it is financially worth it or not. I may just use this as a reference for the future, "No matter how short a time its SUPPOSED to take..."

re: talking to a principal
Unfortunately...the firms owner is the one refusing to pay up, sucks to be me, eh? <---puppy dog eyes)


re: AIGA
Dammit, I KNEW there was something I was supposed to renew! DOH!

Thanks for the advice all.

[JMII]

This is why I do not freelance sorry to hear but there is something about web design that makes it EXTRA difficult to get paid. Everyone assumes that if it's on the web it's "FREE" or something A buddy of mine ran his own web design business for awhile (and I subcontracted to do some design elements while he did the interactive stuff), however after a few months of he realized nobody pays for your real time and gave up on the idea after way too many sleepless nights

Another thing you could do is to get 1/4 at the start of the project and then 1/4 at 1st review, 1/4 when it's "almost done" (haha) and 1/4 when finished. This way you might actually get 1/2 to 3/4 of your money. If they do not want to do business this way consider it a warning and find another client. You could also try billing them WEEKLY, as mitchell_pgh said this will get things moving (or put on "hold") in a hurry. Next, bill them for EVERYTHING and have the documentation to back it up. Note the time of thier phone calls and what changes were discussed, it seems clients have "selective memory" when it comes to what was done and what needed to be fixed. To this point, keep back-ups of how thing looked BEFORE the changes took place and refer them back to those differences when they ask how the hours on the project go so out of hand.

I did design work in a corporate enviroment and we had postcards that would have cost thousands of dollars in AAs alone (months of constant design changes/tweaks) if an outside agency or freelance artisit did them. That's why me and my team were salary employees of the company, it was much cheaper to pay us per year than per job (or even per hour).

- John

[melanie]

In my experience in dealing with design firms, even award winning ones, is they will do almost anything not to pay a bill. I wouldn't give them a thing or do anymore work until you have been paid in full. All my freelance is COD with no exceptions.
It is true that the little jobs are the ones that will not die. They end up costing you more time and energy than the big jobs.
If you don't get the upper hand it will never end.
melanie

[art_director]

if the revisions were complete redesigns then you should be paid. if the revisions were because you made mistakes then not. if you made mistakes and the agency used that as a convenient excuse to make revisions then you should be paid.

"They said that I couldn't bill them for the previous redesigns because they considered it "tweaking" and that it was my fault and that I shouldn't bill for it. They want to pay me for 2/3 of the hours that I billed." -- your tweaking or their tweaking?

"a) take what they want to give me and just chalk it up to a bad experience?" -- they knew your rate and they know it takes time to program a site so they should pay. don't bargin and cheat yourself.

"b) refuse to deliver the site at all until full payment is received" -- they sound as if they're being nasty so no check = no site. period. the second you hand over your work they'll stop taking your calls. trust me, i'm dealing with it now.

"c) deliver the site where it is at (incomplete) without original editable source files in exchange for the measly paycheck and refuse to do the next site?" -- see b.

"d) report them to the BBB and sic a lawyer on their ass." -- your time would be better spent prospecting for new, more responsible and professional clients.