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godzookie2k · Jun 2, 2002, 04:51 PM

Of late there has been alot of talk calling for/against some sort of Designer Certification, not unlike one that Architecture uses, IT, etc. For? Against? Why?

godzookie2k · Jun 2, 2002, 04:56 PM

Me, I'm quite for it. If and only if it:

a) judges technical proficiency only and not some sort of "creativity judge"

b) is VERY affordable

c) is presented by a mutually agreeable organization (likely, aiga)

I get so upset when I see "bad" design being done by people who are untrained, in design only for the "money", and/or are stealing clients by undercutting me. It ****es me off to no end. I think some sort of design certification may be hard to accept initially but in the long run would probably help the signal to noise ratio that (imo) is plaguing design these days. It results in the opinion (I run into this alot) that all we do is "plink-plink something away on the computer in two seconds and get paid alot for it"

nick

Eric_Henao · Jun 6, 2002, 11:36 AM

Absolutely! I'd love to get one for myself. Even in the eyes of those who didn't know what it means, it shows to them, or the prospective employer, that they are "getting the goods". That they are taking less of a risk hiring that person. I can't tell you how many imbecils my past job hired. "I can do quark, but I prefer to do layouts in Illustrator." "Illustrator? What's that?" And yes, these people were HIRED. It was then dropped on me to "train" these people into the flow of our workgroup. Layout-quark, some headlines-Illustrator, photo editing - pshop. Then I found out how blatently bad these people LIED in the interview to get the job. And it didn't help to have an agency place these people either. God I hope these agencies have gotten better at screening the fools that apply, looking for a job. You know it might be a bad sign if you complete their test and the person says, "Wow, no one has ever scored that high!"

So were can I apply for this design certificate?

Eric Henao

Tally Ho · Jun 9, 2002, 01:42 AM

Another benefit is that students just out of school, such as moi, would have a clearer idea of where they stand in "the grand scheme of things." I'm not looking for work yet, but taking such a test would give me an idea of what to expect when i do.

skalie · Jun 9, 2002, 03:31 AM

Pro and cons.

I took a course and passed three exams to become a "Certified Internet Webmaster", the cross platform CIW exams, which they unfortunately decribe as three five day courses on their website.

Being a novice I learnt a hell of a lot in the year I spent studying, but the exams themselves were passed by learning off by heart the questions that were available on the web, including answers.

In my day that would be considered cheating, but I have the certification on my CV, which shows that I was willing to invest the time and money in my career.

Much discussion here........

<a href="http://examnotes.com/" target="_blank">http://examnotes.com/</a>

himself · Jun 10, 2002, 06:39 PM

Beyond just measuring one's techincal proficiency or creative problem solving skill, certification should really stress a code of conduct for designers to abide by (akin to the hippocratic oath), like what is outlined in the AIGA's Standards of Professional Practice... it would help to elevate the field to something beyond the system of inexperienced/desperate designer's undercutting one another. Instead, each designer is judged solely on her/his skill and their compatibility with the clients intended style.

buchrob · Jun 10, 2002, 10:13 PM

I have a BSc in Psychology circa 1968. Arguably, I thus have more training than the average parent in bringing up a child and dealing with his or her "problems", even though I am single.

The difficulty is always in applying standards. My sister-in-law who has brought up 7 kids and foster kids and who is just now being recognized for her talents by taking university-level extension courses is obviously not as well "certifed" as I am.

What really has to happen is that:
1) anyone who wants to become a member of the proposed professional group should have a minimum of a certain number of recognized course credits requiring a certain amount of attendance and completion of a number of test projects. Home study off the internet can't count. (Do you really want an International Correspondence University brain surgeon working on your spouse?)
2) the course has to include some production experience and followthrough to completion of project. (I worked in a production service bureau and can tell many stores out of school about client jobs).

scottiB · Jun 13, 2002, 04:48 PM

I'm not against it, per se, but I don't think it would be feasible.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />a) judges technical proficiency only and not some sort of "creativity judge"<hr /></blockquote>Technical proficiency in what? I've seen lovely graphic design done with scissors, paste, and a charcoal pencil. Were they not proficient in using those? If you mean using design apps, then there are courses leading to some certificate (Photoshop Level 2 or the like) offered by training companies (off hand, I can't recall names, but my office does receive brochures). When you talk about design, you can't avoid creativity and aesthetics. If there were a certification, creativity would need to be applied. I'd love to be a fly-on-the-wall in the committee that would decide those criteria.

The business you're losing to these hacks (and they are) are to clients who just want "low bid." Good design, elegance, and original thought are not traits they want if they need to pay more. It might be a blessing if they weren't your clients (loss of income notwithstanding).
<blockquote>quote:<hr />that all we do is "plink-plink something away on the computer in two seconds and get paid alot for it"<hr /></blockquote>I agree. I work for a small ID firm that uses Alias|wavefront AutoStudio for autmotive design work. Our clients (the American Big 3), think that the software and Irix boxes do all the work--our designers need to just turn them on and voila--instant car. This sentiment will not change near term, I fear.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Then I found out how blatently bad these people LIED in the interview to get the job. And it didn't help to have an agency place these people either.<hr /></blockquote>Yes, the people lied, but, c'mon, who are the people hiring them? Didn't these candidates have a portfolios of some sort? It seems the interviewers were not very astute if they couldn't discern (at the very least) exaggeration or (at the very most) devious misrepresentation. Agencies fill quotas. They'll keep sending and sending till someone sticks--at least for awhile. Then the opening is checked off, and they move to the next. <blockquote>quote:<hr />certification should really stress a code of conduct for designers to abide by (akin to the hippocratic oath), like what is outlined in the AIGA's Standards of Professional Practice...<hr /></blockquote>Architects, attorneys, doctors, etc., need to pass some sort of accreditation or boards because, obviously, clients' well-being is on the line (architects' exams deal with engineering and structure, I believe). No one ever died by bad graphic design...yet (though I have gone blind by flipping through Wired).

I guess what I'm positing is that a graphic design competency certificate is uneeded. It wouldn't prevent clients from cheapness; it wouldn't supplant any sort of current software courses; it wouldn't (or couldn't) define "good" design; it wouldn't have the teeth of any type of state/board accreditation. Furthmore, there already is one (in my polyannic view)--a graduation diploma from a design college or university. That, alone, differentiates a designer from a desktop publisher, I would hope.

Tally Ho, while in school, do free design work for charities, rock bands--clients that could never afford a design firm or designer. While in college, my girlfriend did work for a women's shelter on a monthly calendar and brochures (this was before the web). Perhaps you already are.

Timo · Jun 13, 2002, 05:59 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by scottiB:
Architects, attorneys, doctors, etc., need to pass some sort of accreditation or boards because, obviously, clients' well-being is on the line (architects' exams deal with engineering and structure, I believe). No one ever died by bad graphic design...yet (though I have gone blind by flipping through Wired).<hr /></blockquote>Exactly. The only good rationale I ever heard for licensure is when licensure is established to protect public welfare.

This is the line of reasoning being used by the Architecture licensing boards as they currently opposed licensing for Interior Designers, who typically do not deal with structural, HVAC or Fire Safety issues in their work.

funkboy · Jun 17, 2002, 05:01 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by scottiB:
 No one ever died by bad graphic design...yet<hr /></blockquote>Whether or not you like him, Tog says that bad design has killed people - look at the Challenger incident and flight controls on planes (John Denver) for instance.

However, I don't think design certification would have prevented either of those... at least not the Challenger, unless NASA had a print designer full time...

spivey · Jun 17, 2002, 08:26 PM

I'd have to say I for-one am against it. I do understand the sentiment raised, and I personally have worked with quite a few who I'd deem fairly incompetent (both with, and without higher education training). The thing is, even I had to start somewhere myself. I wasn't going to wait around to finish getting a degree that "says" I'm an artist to try to get my foot in the door either. I've already known I'm an artist for 20 yrs.

Most of what I learned (at least in terms of using software) was due to the patience and training of the people I worked with, what they didn't teach me I taught myself by using it. There's alot I'd have never ever learned in college (like "correct" typography, for example-which very few colleges even teach anymore). I had to learn that from other peoples experience(s), and from practice. I'm still not even finished with college, but the majority of what I've learned about design I've been teaching myself since I was 13 yrs old. What I couldn't teach myself, I had a "mentor" to show me (someone with real world experience and knowledge).

It's just as well to point out that I know some very great designers with even less (or no) "higher education" level of training than my own. To contrast that, I've also worked with some individuals who did carry a degree in design, but lacked any talent or even "desire" to do what they do. To me the latter is the person I'd be more worried about.

As others have mentionned above, nobody's ever died from poor graphic design, and what's "poor" design in the eyes of some is great artwork to others. Graphic design is more than knowing how to use QuarkXPress or Illustrator or whatever. Those "technical abilities" can be learned by anyone, but not everyone can make great artwork.

joestitzlein · Jun 17, 2002, 09:24 PM

i'm all for it, but it ain't gonna happen. the aiga is not interested in this battle.

[ 06-17-2002, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: joestitzlein ]