[sideus]

So Apple switches to x86. What about Altivec?

[Athens]

Originally Posted by chris v

Sure, the current software will continue to work, but people expect a Power Mac to last a good 4 to 5 years. If the OS and all the apps are being re-compiled for a new architecture, people are going to look at the possibility that the IBM-powered machines they buy in this transition period will be left behind at the transition in a year or 18 months, and balk.

I'm running OS 10.3 on a 6 yo iMac, and a 5 1/2 yo Sawtooth. If I can't run OS 10.5 on a 2 YO Dual G5 2.7, why would I consider buying one?

I wouldnt worry about it, look at the 68k code in the old OS, it wasent removed until System 8.5, at which time the PowerPC had been around for 7+ years, im sure Apple will continue the support for 5 years

[rogerkylin]

Originally Posted by sideus

So Apple switches to x86. What about Altivec?

I haven't looked in great detail, so please correct me where I mis-represent...

Current p4's (and probably higher) have SSE (?) that is essentially the equivilent of Altivec. And even one better, it allows two double precision numbers to make up a vector unit instead of only four single precision numbers (plus integers).

I learned about this only a year or so ago, and the function calls provided by the intel developer site are very similar to those for altivec, although not identical.

I think that this _may_ have actually been introduce way back when through the MMX technology...

[joltguy]

Well, if they wanna switch chip architectures then I guess I can deal with it... but they damn well better not start putting those friggin "intel inside" stickers on the new Macs! That would be intolerable.

[starman]

Listen to this Podcast. A good discussion about the Apple/Intel issue (if it really exists)

Episode 8 of:
http://www.thisweekintech.com

Mike

[Todd Madson]

I posted this in another thread but this seems the more approrpriate thread:
I also believe this was a move to allow Jobs to placate Hollywood that the hardware based
DRM will allow an "iFlicks Movie Store" would have enough security so that copies of the
all-time enduring classic (hah), "Dude, Where's My Car" wouldn't be freely spewed all over
the internet. I still question the idea of a movie iPod since watching movies on my computer
or a small iPod-like screen pales compared to a real home theater experience. Best guess?

Jobs wants a store that would allow people to burn DVDs on their systems but only their
systems and only once and wants to insure that Hollywood knows that Johnny Jones and his
G5 system isn't going to be a mass duplicator of copyrighted material to all of his buddies.
This way you have a DVD you can watch in your home theater OR stream it to your home
theater from your computer.

Thinking about it a bit more, the old Macs (the current ones we have now) won't be able to
partake in such a movie store which is my guess for the change - the machines we have now
would be too easily be able to make copies of things, at least in Hollywood's eyes. The last
thing Hollywood wants is someone to be able to get a digital copy of one of their films and
be able to burn it for yourself and all of your friends.

Sucks that the megacorporations are essentially dictating what Apple (and Intel and Microsoft)
says and does if you follow some of the DRM in the Pentium D stories on slashdot.org at the
moment.

My guess is: if you want an untainted computing experience get a new machine now. I'm a bit
torn: if I get a current machine it will allow me to do everything that I do now, but since we're
netflix subscribers here, who cares about an "iFlix" store? The "get it on demand" aspect is
nice but not at the expense of big brother making sure I don't do something they don't like.
How far does it extend anyway?

[sideus]

What about HyperCard?

[budster101]

So what happens when OS X runs on a 3ghz Intel Processor and blows away all the Wind-blows machines?
Will the Mhz myth be kaput then? WIll all the Windows fanboys, brainwashed idiots say uncle?

[typoon]

Originally Posted by budster101

So what happens when OS X runs on a 3ghz Intel Processor and blows away all the Wind-blows machines?
Will the Mhz myth be kaput then? WIll all the Windows fanboys, brainwashed idiots say uncle?

Probably not.

[addiecool]

If this thing happens for real, My powermac G5, Imac G4 and Imac G3 are up for sale in a short time. I cant stand having no value for these incredible machines when Intel systems start to ship. and probably that will be my last apple machine

[booboo]

I still think the only thing that makes any sense is for Intel to make PPC chips for Apple.

I can think of plenty of reasons for Intel to get into PPC (consoles, scalability) and I'm sure Apple think Intel could deliver the speed the IBM has failed to.

Mac OS X running with (even highly efficient) emulation on (64-Bit) x86 chips is always going to be Game Over in the speed stakes . . . .

[chabig]

Originally Posted by addiecool

If this thing happens for real, My powermac G5, Imac G4 and Imac G3 are up for sale in a short time. I cant stand having no value for these incredible machines when Intel systems start to ship. and probably that will be my last apple machine

This isn't the first time the chips inside your Mac have changed, and it won't be the last. But that's not a good reason to switch operating systems. When the Intel based Macs start to ship, your Powermac, and your iMacs will still be great machines, will still run all Mac software, will still be productive, and will still have value. If you honestly believe that they won't have any value, then I beg you--please send the Powermac G5 to me! (PM me for my address).

Chris

[anthology123]

The announcement was vague. They claim to run MacosX on Intel chips. Do they mean they have a Mac logic board with Intel CPU or did they run it on an Intel PC board, implying x86? It would make sense to make a Mac logic board that has an Intel CPU, but it would make financial sense to make it run on any standard LB with an Intel x86. My guess is they had to make it run on a Standard Intel PC motherboard, or else why bother? That was one possible scenario Apple has, by giving up the hardware and only sell the operating system, which is the opposite strategy compared to the iPod. My guess is in time, they will finally concede the computer hardware platform and sell computer related services and software instead.

[legacyb4]

What is the difference if you held onto (and used) what you have for the next year and Apple rolled out quad-processor G5s for the same price? Same problem you'll have with your current hardware devaluing pretty darn quickly at that point in time.

It's a year out; you admit already that these are incredible machines so what exactly is the issue?

Originally Posted by addiecool

I cant stand having no value for these incredible machines when Intel systems start to ship. and probably that will be my last apple machine

[rotuts]

Leg:

so what exactly is the issue?

the issue for many would be those of us with D G4's who plan to buy this fall or early '06 is wait two more years?

rotuts

[teszeract]

this will make zero difference to me.

I use the OS.

What the OS uses, is of no consequence to me!

[osxisfun]

and for everone that wanted a roadmap from apple, we now have one.

and will continue to have one as every intel announcement directly affects us now.

[legacyb4]

True. Still, new gen G5s aren't exactly "slow"; after all, plenty of people bought into the last generation G4s despite the fact that the new, shiny G5s were already on the marketing and are still doing well by them.

The problem is that you have people crying doom and gloom for machines that they have in hand *today* which are top of the line. Just because you won't be cutting edge in a year doesn't mean your machine is worthless as long as it gets the job done.

[rotuts]

true: its all the OS

true: Intel? PPC? matters little

but the delema that needs to over time be solves< whats the wisest buying plan for a top of the line OS 10 machine 6-9 months from now?
G5 PPC 2.8 GZ? as dual duals seems to out for now?

wait for two years for the bend in the road?

just thinking here.

rotut

[klinux]

Originally Posted by sideus

So Apple switches to x86. What about Altivec?

From Slashdot.

"Generally speaking, Altivec in the G5 has the same function and performance as SSE2 in the Pentium 4. I use floating point functions that I have developed and coded in assembly language myself, and I don't see any difference between Altivec and SSE2 at the fundamental level.


Most of the derogatory comments by Apple users about the supposed shortcomings of SSE2 are ill informed, they seem to confuse SSE2 with MMX. Optimization for either the Altivec or SSE2 is a complex subject. First, one has to find an algorithm that works well for vector operations, which means making sure that add and multiply operations will overlap correctly. Then one has to adapt that algorithm for the cache size, CPU clock, and memory bus cycle times. The main problem here is to avoid starving the cache. One has to balance how many operations are done by the CPU for each byte that comes from/to RAM and make sure that the timing is right. All these factors vary a lot between different CPU, mobo, and RAM models. To state that Altivec is either better or worse than SSE2 is simplistic, they are functionally identical and the relative performance between them will be determined by secondary factors.


The biggest problem in SSE2 is that the only compiler that optimizes it well is Intel's, gcc sucks when generating code for the P4, but with hand-optimized code this is irrelevant. If the Intel architecture that Apple will adopt has SSE2, this could be very good news for developers. Let's hope Apple implements efficient optimization for SSE2."

[osxisfun]

So i guess CNET was right.

[dlefebvre]

This means a very powerful Apple laptop with a reasonable battery life is finally coming. Probably sooner than a G5 Powerbook would have come.
I'm sure the laptop market is one of the reason for this switch. For the first year in the global PC market, there was more laptop sold than desktop. PC laptop are getting very powerful and cheaper. Other than fabrication an OS X none the less, the advantages of buying a Powerbook are thinning. The Powerbook used to leave it's competitors in the dust. not anymore. Apple needed to do something before it was to late.