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Infuriating IE Freezes
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Meadowfield
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Sep 6, 2000, 11:24 PM
 
How pleasant it was, the last two days, after a clean instal of OS 9.0.4. Actually, I initialized the drive and simply installed the system software. No Aps. I added one application at a time and carefully documented and labeled the added components. First IE/Outlook and after a few joyous days of problem free surfing, added Quicken followed by Palm. That's it. No Adobe. No Appleworks. And, for two days I remembered how great it was to compute without a crash!

Then tonight, like soo many seemingly random times before, IE freezes after hitting a link. No way to get out other than to force a reset. from the side of the iMac DVD/SE. Here we go again.

Any, and I mean ANY ideas would be appreciated.



[This message has been edited by Meadowfield (edited 09-09-2000).]
     
Veerle
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Sep 7, 2000, 07:19 AM
 
The first thing I would ask is : did you give more memory to Explorer ? My Internet Explorer 5 has 22MB and runs quite stable and I have all kinds of other Adobe and Macromedia apps on my disk.
     
wlonh
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Sep 7, 2000, 08:15 AM
 
IE does not, i repeat, does NOT crash on my Macs...

search this forum, do your homework, tame your browser(s)

they are all subject to much the same issues... even the great and estimable iCab needs attention now and then!

i repeat, do your homework! the methods to make IE behave are here.
     
Meadowfield  (op)
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Sep 7, 2000, 10:06 AM
 
I've been chasing this tail around and around for months now on another forum:http://www.macfixit.com/ultimate/Forum22/HTML/000301.html , but nothing works. I thought I'd try here. Anyone?
     
Gregory
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Sep 7, 2000, 11:28 AM
 
Ah... try reformat and all the rest, and this time put the system on its own volume (one for 9, one for X) and include scratch, temp, and huge volume for apps/internet/docs/utilities/etc.

I would at the least trash any trace of IE/OE except for email and favorites.

The Internet Preference file gets clobbered on crash/freezes, maybe cache.waf. IE 4.5 and 5.0 can have trouble co-existing or running Office/IE combo.

Let Office do its first install, then IE, but you may want to move anything Word/Office installs (MS library) over to the Office folder inside Office 98.

I have IE set to 28MB preferred, 18MB minimum. Stable as can be. VM on or off. 9.0.4 with MRJ 2.2.2 and other updates.

Gregory
     
Meadowfield  (op)
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Sep 7, 2000, 12:31 PM
 
Thanks for your thoughts, guys. Yes, Memory is up to 28000 and I actually do have my Drive partitioned in anticipation of OSX. But Gregory, do you imply that one should run the OS off one and aps from another?! And, for the record I have no other Aps installed other than those listed above to minimize any potential conflict until I get this figured out.

Let's assume I damaged my Internet Pref file and I should replace it. I remember it was a royal pain in the ... well, Bush said it so here goes: ASS. Any way to "move" all those Remote Access/ Modem codes so that one does not have to spend all that time reconfiguring just to sign on? The Favorites are easy, I know.

Anyone else want to chime in, PLEASE do.
     
Evangellydonut
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Sep 7, 2000, 01:30 PM
 
had too many troubles with the Process Manager (aka Download Manager) of IE...I bet I can reproduce the crashes even on Wlonh's machines!

Anyway, unless you must have Java support or access online-banking on a regular basis, iCab is much more stable and better implemented than IE...and for Java and online-banking purposes, Netscape should work in most cases...
G4/450, T-bird 1.05GHz, iBook 500, iBook 233...4 different machines, 4 different OSes...(9, 2k, X.1, YDL2.2 respectively) PiA to maintain...
     
Kon-El
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Sep 7, 2000, 02:28 PM
 
But 'gellydonut you try to download over 20 things at a time, that's not exactly recommended actions, ya know?

As I've said before, at least you can do multiple downloads on IE, instead of one at a time with Nutscrape Complicator!

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Evangellydonut
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Sep 7, 2000, 04:25 PM
 
um, iCab didn't complain, and I've never had problems with opening multiple d/l connections with netscape...thus I have no idea what you are talking about...(I just hold down option and click on the link, and I've gotten as many as 20 d/l going at once in netscape...)

doing something trivial/common but "none-standard" shouldn't be an excuse for M$ to release half-debugged junk...
G4/450, T-bird 1.05GHz, iBook 500, iBook 233...4 different machines, 4 different OSes...(9, 2k, X.1, YDL2.2 respectively) PiA to maintain...
     
Meadowfield  (op)
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Sep 7, 2000, 06:45 PM
 
Let's try to stay on topic, shall we.
     
Meadowfield  (op)
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Sep 9, 2000, 01:36 PM
 
Originally posted by Meadowfield:
How pleasant it was, the last two days, after a clean instal of OS 9.0.4. Actually, I initialized the drive and simply installed the System software. No Aps. I added one application at a time and carefully documented and labeled the added components. First IE/Outlook and after a few joyous days of problem free surfing, added Quicken followed by Palm. That's it. No Adobe. No Appleworks. And, for two days I remembered how great it was to compute without a crash!

Then tonight, like soo many seemingly random times before, IE freezes after hitting a link. No way to get out other than to force a reset. from the side of the iMac DVD/SE. Here we go again.

Any, and I mean ANY ideas would be appreciated.

     
Meadowfield  (op)
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Sep 9, 2000, 01:42 PM
 
Oops, sorry about that. I was trying to edit the original.

wlonh, quick question...

On your units, do you use Palm Sync, IE Plugins, or mess with backgrounds or other OS preferences? How about a Zip drive?

[This message has been edited by Meadowfield (edited 09-09-2000).]
     
Gregory
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Sep 9, 2000, 02:19 PM
 
Yes, I meant system on its own partition. And keep a backup clean install (drop the system folder on disk copy after ALL the updates) and you can still update the self-mount image if you make it read/write and give it an extra 100MB file size.

Backup! I have two internal drives and it takes 5 minutes to run a script and have the system and "main" partitions backed up. I always have a good copy of a recent internet preference file around.

I also verify the System and Finder with ResEdit to look to see if they got damaged during an install or crash. I also use MacsBug. And use RAM disk for cache.waf, separate volume for downloads; keep every current download in an install folder.

I also prefer putting VM on its own volume. Keep Mac OS 9 install CD as .smi on disk drive.

And IE can clobber a Directory or write outside the addressable partition. Another reason to isolate and use partitioned drives.

Gregory
     
Fyzycyst
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Sep 11, 2000, 11:05 AM
 
I must say, I PARTLY agree with our esteemed moderator. IE *can* be used in a relatively trouble free manner. HOWEVER... there are two well-known and long-standing IE bugs that you just apparently have to live with because M$ has (to my knowledge) never acknowledged them. Please note that these problems occur regardless of the number of total reinstalls or other voodoo which has been posted on here. All these remedies really fix is the Office - IE/OE componentry confusion, which is really a bug in M$'s 'First Run' technology, which apparently is too stupid to notice when more recent components are already installed. Anyway, the bugs are:

1) MEMORY LEAK!!! If you repeatedly open multiple windows, you *will* eventually fill all available memory, your VM will thrash and if you don't catch it then, you will lockup your machine. The only workaround is to periodically quit IE and then fire it right back up.

2) IE or OE trying to start and failing at about the splash screen. This is the 'cache.waf' file. If you're using IE or OE one at a time, I've found this to be quite rare. If you leave OE open all the time to check for mail, and then you use IE for a long session, you'll eventually run into this one. Simply trash the 'cache.waf' file and all will be well (until it gets corrupted again). This problem seems to be one of both IE and OE trying to write to the cache file simultaneously, as it (in my experience) is most strongly correlated with accessing a web page at the same time as OE checking for mail.

BTW, everybody does have their cache file in a self-mounting disk image (in startup items folder) or a RAM disk, right?? I saw someone on the forums complaining that IE had destroyed the HD, which is, of course, avoided by putting the cache someplace other than the HD.

Cheers.

[P.S.: I've repeatedly tried to communicate this to M$ in as detailed a manner as possible, but without (most of the time) even a robot reply. If you read this and know a SPECIFIC individual on the MacIE team at M$, please don't be afraid to forward this.]
     
Meadowfield  (op)
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Sep 11, 2000, 06:59 PM
 
Thanks for your thoughts, Fyzycyst, and welcome to the boards.

After a crash I do notice that File Buddy finds an invisible folder on the drive root called "temporary items". Within, one does inevitably find "cache waf " and "downlaod..." Do you remove these after a IE crash and/or what else do you do to repair damage? Can it be assumed that the 'internet ' pref file is then corrupt and should be replaced? How do you really know?
     
Fyzycyst
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Sep 12, 2000, 11:16 AM
 
Well, I've never thought to look at the Temporary Items folder, as I have one of those Applescripts that tries to make sure it's empty at shutdown (to avoid the "double" shutdown problem that seems to crop up every two OS updates or so). After a crash/reboot caused by this, you should have a "Rescued items from System" folder in the trash, just empty the trash. Then I make sure both IE and OE are quit (I have OE in my startup items) and trash the 'cache.waf' file from the Shrinkwrap disk image where I keep it. Once that's gone, you're free to fire up IE/OE and go on your way. Sometimes I wonder if periodically deleting that file as a preventative measure wouldn't be smart.

- Eric.
     
iMacMike
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Sep 12, 2000, 05:03 PM
 
It for these same reasons (and many others) I gave up on MSIE/OE and stuck with Netscape. IE has some nice bells & whistles but the price in stability is just too high. Also, not mentioned here, is the way IE only colors links visited for 24 hrs, making forum browsing an exercise in memory retention. I have Netscape set to remember links for 14 days.

I want a browser that works with as little intervention on my part as possible... that's the whole reason I bought a Mac in the first place. IE/OE makes my iMac more like working with Intel than any other application. It's just too fussy and "high maintenance" for my liking... Geez, I just described my ex-wife!


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Fyzycyst
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Sep 13, 2000, 10:50 AM
 
Funny, I gave up NS in favor of IE/OE for stability reasons. IE's bugs are basically only two and these are learnable and largely avoidable. I've always found NS to be just plain flaky and unpredictable.

However, even if I knew IE to be less stable than NS, I'd still use it unless it just plain crashed 100% of the time. The fact that NS doesn't retain its history is probably the biggest single reason it is almost unusable. Even when IE crashes, its history is retained and you can quickly return to where you were. The other huge annoyance with NS is how long it takes to finish rendering a page -- Oh, the FIRST time it renders may be as fast or a tad faster than IE, but WHY does it insist on taking a perfectly well-rendered page and then blanking it out, waiting 1-2 seconds and then re-rendering it from scratch???

OK, I guess we're risking devolving into a religious war here. The moral is: Your mileage may vary!

- Eric.
     
Sebastien
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Sep 26, 2000, 11:03 PM
 
search this forum, do your homework, tame your browser(s)

they are all subject to much the same issues... even the great and estimable iCab needs attention now and then!

i repeat, do your homework! the methods to make IE behave are here.
Yeah right... I didn't get a Mac to be doing the typical Windows maintenance, bug hunting stuff every week!

Besides, I myself tried the 28(!!!)MB allocation thing for IE, and it STILL goes *poof* on page views (playing Jackpot.com, viewing .mov from my @Home connection site, or even simple pages).

I wish MS would PROACTIVELY test and fix their software, instead of just providing minor updates once every 1-2 years, or only when a security issue arrises.

Geez, even Netscape has release 3-4 updates since IE 5 came out, and not all of them for security reasons.
     
wlonh
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Sep 27, 2000, 08:54 AM
 
ha! and HA!

i have NO ISSUES, no memory leaks and NO TROUBLES with IE 5 or 4.5.1

you can lead a horse to water... BUT...

     
Sebastien
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Sep 27, 2000, 03:55 PM
 
OK, fine. Then try playing on Jackpot.com, or viewing some pages on Onepage.com (after setting some up), and prove to me IE didn't crash once.
     
Meadowfield  (op)
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Sep 27, 2000, 05:15 PM
 
wlonh, I like others on these boards have noticed your condescending tone on previous occasions, but using the phrase, "Ha Ha" is downright childish and unproductive and was guaranteed to cause a pissing match. If you do not have time to participate in a cordial manner perhaps its time to spend your energy elsewhere.
     
wlonh
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Sep 27, 2000, 07:15 PM
 
ha and ha! i need prove nothing, this is not a court of law, nor a calculus course

i did not say haha, there is a HUGE difference... sorry if you took it wrong...

and i am quite sick and tired of the few people who express their personal opinions about me... keep it to yourself, thanks

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 09-27-2000).]
     
jog
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Sep 29, 2000, 03:24 AM
 
I maintenance a variety of Macs running the newest Systems and Software. On every machine, IE 5 freezes from time to time. This happens very rarely, but most likely by clicking on the app icon in the upper right corner (to switch to another program) after a lot of surfing. This is the only major bug in Explorer I've found until now.

[This message has been edited by jog (edited 10-17-2000).]
     
jog
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Oct 17, 2000, 07:57 PM
 
The problem is there and it must be fixed. Yes, wlonh, if you don't have any problems with it - great! But this doesn't mean anything in this case, like 'How good is a program that must be fine-tuned to work properly?'. There are people out there who don't want to spend time reinstalling, restarting, re-anything.

BTW: cmd-opt-esc works...

[This message has been edited by jog (edited 10-17-2000).]
     
Meadowfield  (op)
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Oct 18, 2000, 11:00 AM
 
Jog,

Thanks for bringing this post back to the top since it has reminded me to report on my progress - and publicly thank Fyzycyst for a crash free iMac. Perhaps I didn't want to jinx myself, but heck after all these weeks without having to fiddle with the system all the time it's the least I can do.

I summary, use a ram disk (Memory Control Panel) to store your IE's cache file, delete 'temporary items' from the root of the Hard Drive (its invisible, so you must use File Buddy - shareware), and refrain from using Outlook Express while IE is open and vice versa.

Good Luck!

Paul
     
   
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