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Milosevic is Dead! (Page 2)
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Jawbone54
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Mar 11, 2006, 09:26 PM
 
I'd agree with Kevin. The only reason that Milosevic and Hussein aren't considered as evil as Hitler is that they had a lot less to work with. Germany was a world power. Iraq and Serbia are mid-leve (if that) powers. If Saddam had been in charge of, let's say, Italy...we would've had a lot bigger of a problem. If Milosevic had ruled Russia...enough said.

But we don't really know how far they would've gone. Historians have suggested that Hitler could've possibly succeeded in ruling all of Europe had he not devoted so much time and resources into the extermination of the Jews. Perhaps Milosevic and/or Hussein might have been more consumed with expanding their power rather than destroying an entire race.
     
yakkiebah
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Mar 11, 2006, 09:29 PM
 
Doofy may be right.

Some critics have accused the coalition of leading a war in Kosovo under the false pretense of genocide [7]. President Clinton of the United States, and his administration, were accused of inflating the number of Kosovar Albanians killed by Serbians[8]. Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen, giving a speech, said, "The appalling accounts of mass killing in Kosovo and the pictures of refugees fleeing Serb oppression for their lives makes it clear that this is a fight for justice over genocide [9]." On CBS' Face the Nation Cohen claimed, "We've now seen about 100,000 military-aged men missing...They may have been murdered[10]." Clinton, citing the same figure, spoke of "at least 100,000 (Kosovar Albanians) missing[11]". Later, talking about Serbian elections, Clinton said, "they're going to have to come to grips with what Mr. Milošević ordered in Kosovo...They're going to have to decide whether they support his leadership or not; whether they think it's OK that all those tens of thousands of people were killed...[12]". Clinton also claimed, in the same press conference, that "NATO stopped deliberate, systematic efforts at ethnic cleansing and genocide[13]." Clinton even compared the events of Kosovo to the Holocaust. CNN reported, "Accusing Serbia of 'ethnic cleansing' in Kosovo similar to the genocide of Jews in World War II, an impassioned President Clinton sought Tuesday to rally public support for his decision to send U.S. forces into combat against Yugoslavia, a prospect that seemed increasingly likely with the breakdown of a diplomatic peace effort[14]." Clinton's State Department also claimed Serbian troops had committed genocide. The New York Times reported, "the Administration said evidence of 'genocide' by Serbian forces was growing to include 'abhorrent and criminal action' on a vast scale. The language was the State Department's strongest yet in denouncing Yugoslav President Slobodan Milošević[15]." The State Department also gave the highest estimate of dead Albanians. The New York Times reported, "On April 19, the State Department said that up to 500,000 Kosovar Albanians were missing and feared dead[16]."

However, the numbers given by Clinton and his administration have been proven false. The official NATO body count of the events in Kosovo was 2,788 (not all of them were war crimes victims)[17], with Slobodan Milošević charged with the "murders of about 600 individually identified ethnic Albanians[18]". Critics have noted that these numbers can not be considered genocide. The headline of The Wall Street Journal, which had launched an investigation into whether genocide had occurred in Kosovo, on December 31, 1999 was "War in Kosovo Was Cruel, Bitter, Savage; Genocide It Wasn't"[19]. The Wall Street Journal wrote, "the U.N.'s International War Criminal tribunal has checked the largest reported sites first, and found most to contain no more than five bodies, suggesting intimate acts of barbarity rather than mass murder... Kosovo would be easier to investigate if it had the huge killing fields some investigators were led to expect. Instead, the pattern is of scattered killings[20]."

In addition, a United Nations Court had previously ruled that Serbian troops did not commit genocide against Albanians. The court wrote "the exactions committed by Milošević's regime cannot be qualified as criminal acts of genocide, since their purpose was not the destruction of the Albanian ethnic group[21]". According to BBC, "the decision was based on the 1948 Geneva convention which defines genocide as the intent 'to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group as such'[22]". Milošević was not charged with genocide in Kosovo by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) but the more broader "crimes against humanity"[23]. Spanish forensic surgeon Emilio Pérez Pujol, who led the Spanish forensic team in Kosovo, gave an interview to the British paper The Sunday Times. The paper wrote, "In an outspoken interview, Pujol complained he had been sent to head a large investigation team attached to the ICTY, consisting of pathologists and police specialists, to work in the north of the country. But he found that what was publicised as a search for mass graves was 'a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines, because we did not find one—not one—mass grave.

Kosovo War, From Wikipedia
     
Kevin
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Mar 11, 2006, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54
I'd agree with Kevin. The only reason that Milosevic and Hussein aren't considered as evil as Hitler is that they had a lot less to work with. Germany was a world power. Iraq and Serbia are mid-leve (if that) powers. If Saddam had been in charge of, let's say, Italy...we would've had a lot bigger of a problem. If Milosevic had ruled Russia...enough said.
Thanks, And I don't think what I said was so much as an issue, as me being the one that said it.

The comparison isn't as far of a stretch as they would like you to believe. But I think they know that.
     
yakkiebah
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Mar 11, 2006, 09:49 PM
 
It's a huge stretch.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Mar 11, 2006, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54
I'd agree with Kevin. The only reason that Milosevic and Hussein aren't considered as evil as Hitler is that they had a lot less to work with. Germany was a world power. Iraq and Serbia are mid-leve (if that) powers. If Saddam had been in charge of, let's say, Italy...we would've had a lot bigger of a problem. If Milosevic had ruled Russia...enough said.
Kevin didn't say that. Kevin said Hussein and Milosevic were "stopped" before they could reach Hitler's "evil status." He later changed his story to include the real issue of each country's resources and status after I criticised his first comment. I don't think this idea is a big controversial issue, either.

I love how he's now taking sole credit for it, though. Very amusing.

greg
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Mar 11, 2006, 09:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy
"The global scientific community"

I laugh my ass off everytime I see that term.
Really? Where did you see that quote in here?

Read much?



greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Pendergast
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Mar 11, 2006, 09:57 PM
 
The Evil Olympiads.

Looking for The Dick.
"Criticism is a misconception: we must read not to understand others but to understand ourselves.”

Emile M. Cioran
     
Kevin
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Mar 11, 2006, 10:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Kevin didn't say that. Kevin said Hussein and Milosevic were "stopped" before they could reach Hitler's "evil status."
Yes indeed I said that. And I still stand by that.
He later changed his story
Nothing was changed. If your "stance" is so valid, you don't have to revert to dishonesty or "distorting facts"
to include the real issue of each country's resources and status after I criticised his first comment.
Nothing was changed. You interjected a comment about time. I was showing you how Hitler could do it in less time because he had more power. Something
Jawbone did indeed agree with me on.
I love how he's now taking sole credit for it, though. Very amusing.
I am taking sole credit for it? No. Nor did I imply such a thing.
Originally Posted by yakkiebah
It's a huge stretch.
you've convinced us about as much as shortcut has.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Mar 11, 2006, 10:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
Nothing was changed. You interjected a comment about time. I was showing you how Hitler could do it in less time because he had more power. Something
Jawbone did indeed agree with me on.
In the words of my homeland...you're giving me a Jesus headache, Kevin.

As I already posted...Hitler was in control of his country for far longer than either Milosevic or Hussein before he began to exhibit outright militant and/or genocidal tendencies (although if you consider his racist suppressions as part of this, it would be much shorter). He was able to do what he did because of smart planning and because his country had (to quote myself) "Industrial capacity, resources and political clout in the modern-Western world. . . both [were] severely lacking in Milosevic and Hussein."

If you say "Milosevic and Hussein did not reach Hitler's status because they were stopped before they could," and later say "they did not reach Hitler's status because they did not have the same national power he did"...well, Kevin, that's changing your story. Although, I can't wait to read your reply dealing with how you're still correct on both accounts.

It's like talking to a wall.

greg
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Caetano
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Mar 11, 2006, 10:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by yakkiebah
Doofy may be right

Kosovo War, From Wikipedia
From the same article:

The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed.
Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page.
     
Kevin
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Mar 11, 2006, 10:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
In the words of my homeland...you're giving me a Jesus headache, Kevin.
I am not giving YOU anything. You are doing this all on your own little buddy.
As I already posted...Hitler was in control of his country for far longer than either Milosevic or Hussein before he began to exhibit outright militant tendencies (although if you consider his racist suppressions as part of this, it would be much shorter).
Ever read Mein Kempf ? And either way, as I pointed out, the time it took them is IRRELEVANT. Their actions are similar. Their desires were similar. The come from the same ILK.
He was able to do what he did because of smart planning and because his country had (to quote myself) "Industrial capacity, resources and political clout in the modern-Western world. . . both [were] severely lacking in Milosevic and Hussein."
Um, that is exactly what I said in the first place. Hitler had the ability because he had THE POWER
If you say "Milosevic and Hussein did not reach Hitler's status because they were stopped before they could," and later say "they did not reach Hitler's status because they did not have the same national power he did"...well, Kevin, that's changing your story.
No, I said they didn't reach Hitler's status because they didn't have that kind of POWER yet. Why do you think Saddam was looking for ways to get WMDS?

We stopped them before he got power.
It's like talking to a wall.
Again, don't blame me for your deceptions or you not understanding what I am saying.

It's not MY fault.
     
von Wrangell
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Mar 11, 2006, 10:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Wouldn't surprise me if quite a few around here would want him acquitted.
Two so far. What a surprise......

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
von Wrangell
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Mar 11, 2006, 11:16 PM
 
Here's some reading about this animal.

http://www.un.org/icty/milosevic/

Example:
COUNTS 23 to 29
MURDER, WILFUL KILLING, WILFULLY CAUSING GREAT SUFFERING, CRUEL TREATMENT, ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS

43. Between April 1992 and November 1995, Slobodan MILOSEVIC, acting alone or in concert with members of the joint criminal enterprise, planned, instigated, ordered, committed, or otherwise aided and abetted the planning, preparation, or execution of a military campaign of artillery and mortar shelling and sniping onto civilian areas of Sarajevo and upon its civilian population, killing and wounding thousands of civilians of all ages and both sexes.

44. In this time period, the Sarajevo Romanija Corps of the VRS, under the effective control of Radovan KARADZIC and General Ratko MLADIC, launched an extensive, forty-four month shelling and sniping attack on Sarajevo, mostly from positions in the hills surrounding the city with an unobstructed view of Sarajevo.

45. The Sarajevo Romanija Corps conducted a protracted campaign of shelling and sniping upon Sarajevo during which civilians were either specifically targeted or the subject of reckless fire into areas where civilians were known to have been. Among the victims of this campaign were civilians who were, amongst other things, tending vegetable plots, queuing for bread or water, attending funerals, shopping in markets, riding on trams, gathering wood. Specific instances of sniping are described in Schedule E attached to this indictment. Specific instances of shelling are set forth in Schedule F.

By these acts and omissions, Slobodan MILOSEVIC committed:

Count 23: Murder, a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY, punishable under Articles 5(a) and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

Count 24: Inhumane acts, a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY, punishable under Articles 5(i) and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

Count 25: Wilful killing, a GRAVE BREACH OF THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS OF 1949, punishable under Articles 2(a) and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

Count 26: Wilfully causing great suffering, a GRAVE BREACH OF THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS OF 1949, punishable under Articles 2(c) and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

Count 27: Murder, a VIOLATION OF THE LAWS OR CUSTOMS OF WAR, as recognised by Common Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable under Articles 3 and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

Count 28: Cruel treatment, a VIOLATION OF THE LAWS OR CUSTOMS OF WAR, as recognised by Common Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable under Articles 3 and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

Count 29: Attacks on civilians, a VIOLATION OF THE LAWS OR CUSTOMS OF WAR, as recognised by Article 51 (2) of Additional Protocol I and Article 13 (2) of Additional Protocol II to the Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable under Articles 3 and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

chedule F
Sarajevo: Shelling Incidents

No

Incident

Date

1

Two shells were fired upon a crowd of approximately 200 persons who were watching and participating in a football game in a parking lot bordered on three sides by residential apartment blocks and on the fourth side by the Lukavica Road in Dobrinja 3B, a residential settlement. At least twelve people, including 3 children under the age of 15 years, were killed and at least 70 people, including 10 children, were wounded. The origin of fire was VRS-held territory approximately to the east-south-east.

01-Jun-93

2

An 82 mm mortar shell was fired upon about 100 civilians who were waiting to access a communal water pump in the front yard of a residence at 39 Hakije Turajlica (previously Aleja Branka Bulica then Spasenije Cane Babović) in Dobrinja, a residential settlement. At least twelve people were killed and fourteen people were wounded. The origin of fire was VRS-held territory approximately to the west-north-west.

12-Jul-93

3

Three mortar shells landed in the area of Alipasino Polje, the first in a park behind, and the second and third in front of residential apartment buildings at 3 Geteova Street (previously Centinjska Street) and at 4 Bosanska Street (previously Klara Cetkin Street), where children were playing. The second and third shells killed six children under the age of 15 years and wounded one adult and four such children. The origin of fire was from VRS-held territory approximately to the west.

22-Jan-94

4

A salvo of three 120 mm mortar shells hit civilians in the Dobrinja residential area. The first landed to the front of a block of flats at Oslobodilaca Sarajeva Street hitting persons who were distributing and receiving humanitarian aid and children attending religious classes. The second and third landed among persons trading at a market in an open area to the rear of the apartment buildings at Mihajla Pupina Street and Oslobodilaca Sarajeva Street. Eight people, including 1 child under the age of 15 years, were killed and at least 18 people, including 2 children were wounded. The origin of fire was from VRS-held territory, approximately to the east.

04-Feb-94

5

A 120 mm mortar shell hit a crowded open air market called "Markale," situated in a civilian area of Old Town Sarajevo, killing 66 people and wounding over 140 people, including 3 children under the age of 15 years. The origin of fire was VRS-held territory approximately to the North-North-East.

05-Feb-94

6

A 120 mm mortar shell impacted on the Igman Road amongst a group of civilians at a bus stop. One person was killed and fifteen were injured. The origin of fire was Vojkovici VRS territory.

30-Oct-94

7

Three mortar shells struck Livanjska Street, a street of civilian dwellings. Two persons were killed and six were injured. The origin of fire was Poljine direction VRS territory.

08-Nov-94

8

One 120 mm mortar shell hit Partizanska Street 18 in Hrasnica. Two children aged eight years and two years were killed and three adults were injured.

17-Nov-94

9

An 82 mm mortar shell hit adjacent to a civilian dwelling killing an elderly man and injuring his elderly wife. The origin of fire was VRS territory.

12-Dec-94

10

Two 76 mm shells in quick succession hit a flea market in the old commercial quarter of Bascarsija in Old Town. Two persons were killed and seven were injured. The origin of fire was Trebevic, VRS positions.

22-Dec-94

11

A modified aircraft bomb hit a residential area in Hrasnica at the foot of Mount Igman destroying one dwelling, severely damaging eleven other dwellings. One person was killed and three injured. The origin of fire was Ilidza, VRS territory.

07-Apr-95

12

A 60 mm mortar shell hit a concrete area near the Sarajevo railway station. Seven people were injured. The origin of fire was Zlatiste, VRS territory.

12-Apr-95

13

A missile landed and exploded on the asphalt of Safeta Zajke street at approximately 9.45, killing two and injuring five people. The missile came from the southeast, direction of Lukavica.

24-May-95

14

A modified air-bomb landed at Majdanska Street bb. Two civilians were killed and six were wounded. The origin of fire was from the southeast VRS territory of Pavlovac.

24-May-95

15

A modified air-bomb struck a building near apartment blocks in Safeta Hodzica Street, destroying the top three floors of an apartment building. This explosion was followed by several artillery rounds landing in the same area. Serious damage was caused to a number of buildings. Two people were seriously injured and fifteen persons were slightly injured. The fire was determined to have come from VRS territory to the West/ Southwest.

26-May-95

16

At about 10.00 hours, a modified aircraft bomb was fired from the North West. The bomb landed and exploded on the building of the UMC and Oncology Department at Dositejeva street 4-a. There was a lot of damage and three persons were slightly injured.

16-Jun-95

17

At about 15.20 hours, a modified aircraft bomb, most probably fired from Lukavica, exploded next to 10, Trg Medjunarodnog Prijateljstva, slightly injuring seven people and causing considerable damage to neighboring buildings.

16-Jun-95

18

At 17.20 hours, a modified aircraft bomb was fired from the North West. It exploded on the builder house at Cobanija Street 7. Two people were wounded.

16-Jun-95

19

A 120 mm mortar shell struck a line of civilians, numbering approximately 50-70, waiting for water distribution in Marka Oreskovica Street, Dobrinja. Seven people were killed and twelve injured. The origin of fire was Nedzarici, VRS territory.

18-Jun-95

20

A projectile was fired into the street Bulevar Mese Selimovica, probably from the direction of Rajlovac. There were no victims.

29-Jun-95

21

At about 13.30 hours, a high impact missile landed just outside the house number 5 in Radenko Abazovica. It was fired from the Western part of the city (Ilidza - Rajlovac). There were no victims.

01-Jul-95

22

At about 21.30 hours, a rocket projectile with a concussion warhead exploded in Bunicki Potok street. Thirteen people were injured. The projectile came from Ilidza.

01-Jul-95

23

A 120 mm mortar shell hit close to a dwelling at Vrbanjusa 95 (a residential area). One boy was killed. The origin of fire was VRS territory in the South.

19-Jul-95

24

A rocket missile with concussion warhead, coming from the direction of Ilidza/ Blazuj, landed on the house Sokolovici, Bjelasnicka Street 54. Two persons were killed and eleven were lightly wounded.

23-Jul-95

25

A modified explosive device exploded at the staircase between the 2nd and the 3rd floor of the BITAS building in Zmaja od Bosne Street 64. One person died, another received light injuries. The origin of fire was VRS territory in the South West.

22-Aug-95

26

A 120 mm mortar shell landed in Mula-Mustafe Baseskije Street outside the entrance to the City Market. 43 people were killed and 75 were injured. The origin of fire was Trebevic, VRS territory.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
von Wrangell
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Mar 11, 2006, 11:20 PM
 
Names and D.O.B. of the victims of the Srebrenica Massacre.

http://www.srebrenica-zepa.ba/spisak.htm

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Doofy
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Mar 11, 2006, 11:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Here's some reading about this animal.
Strange. Those look like charges, not successful prosecutions. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Does islam not believe in that or something vW?

Let's look at one of those charges:

21

At about 13.30 hours, a high impact missile landed just outside the house number 5 in Radenko Abazovica. It was fired from the Western part of the city (Ilidza - Rajlovac). There were no victims.
Looks like they're clutching at straws. Looks like you're clutching at straws.

Oh. And I'm fairly certain that some of the massacres attributed to the Serbs were actually perpetrated by the KLA against their own people in response to villagers not wanting to join them (some instances) and making their cause look good to the west (other instances).
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Mar 12, 2006, 02:44 AM
 
Come on now. Have you ever seen tapes of Milosevic's speeches? Have you ever done some study of his actions and directions during the 90s?

He was clearly a fanatical demon of a man who would stoop to any length to create what he thought was his perfect ethnic country.

Originally Posted by Kevin
No, I said they didn't reach Hitler's status because they didn't have that kind of POWER yet. Why do you think Saddam was looking for ways to get WMDS?

We stopped them before he got power.
Your argument is fatally flawed because both could not get the kind of power Hitler had. Impossible. Both Milosevic and Hussein were victims of their own resource, industrial and political weaknesses – which is the primary argument, as I've repeated multiple times. Even if Hussein had gotten WMDs (which of course is debatable at the moment), it wouldn't've mattered – his power would have been less than even freakin' Israel, let alone any number of countries around the world. In the late 1930s to early 1940s, Germany had the best army in the world – and Hitler backed this with political clout and industrial power which was among the world's largest. Neither Milosevic nor Hussein had a hope in hell of managing anything close to this, whether we stopped them or not.

greg
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yakkiebah
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Mar 12, 2006, 05:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Caetano
From the same article:
Have you read the discussion?
     
yakkiebah
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Mar 12, 2006, 05:54 AM
 
So the KLA weren't making Kosovo ethnically pure? There was hardly a good side to be found in this conflict.

The Kosovo Liberation Army

...

Ex-KLA members also made efforts to spread insurgency into neighboring regions. A new guerrilla-terrorist group called the Liberation Army of Preševo, Medveđa and Bujanovac, consisting of KLA veterans, began operating in the Preševo region of southern Serbia in 2000-2001. In the Republic of Macedonia, a new organization also named UÇK (this time standing for "National Liberation Army" in Albanian) took up arms against the Slav-dominated government.

The KLA legacy remains powerful within Kosovo. Its former members still play a major role in Kosovar politics; its former political head Hashim Thaci is now the leader of the Democratic Party of Kosova, one of the province's leading political parties. Ramush Haradinaj, a former KLA regional leader, served briefly as Prime Minister of Kosovo before he was extradited to The Hague to stand trial on war crimes charges. [3] The KLA's former military head, Agim Çeku, has also been nominated for the position of Prime Minister; this has caused further controversy, as some regard him as a war criminal, though he has not been publicly indicted. [4]

In addition, KLA's legacy as a group of people who are willing to commit nefarious crimes is confirmed by the expulsion of more than 250,000.00 non-albanian minorities from Kosovo post 1999. 6] KLA's intent to ethnically cleanse Kosovo from minorities is evident in the political program espoused by KLA politicians [6] Reports further indicate that the local, KLA dominated governments "[They] say it is better if there are no Serb houses, than having empty Serb houses to which they can come back one day."
Also interesting: Al Qaeda´s Balkan Links
     
Kevin
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Mar 12, 2006, 06:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Your argument is fatally flawed
You mean you are trying to convince yourself it is by posting that. It certainly isn't factual.
because both could not get the kind of power Hitler had. Impossible.
Again, not impossible. If either of them got WMDs, they could have. (Why was Hitler looking to get nukes also? More power!)
Both Milosevic and Hussein were victims of their own resource, industrial and political weaknesses – which is the primary argument, as I've repeated multiple times.
No, your primary argument was they weren't comparable people. I said they were of the SAME ilk, they just didn't have all the resources Hitler did. And we stopped them before they could.
Even if Hussein had gotten WMDs (which of course is debatable at the moment), it wouldn't've mattered
Your opinion. Others in the know, believe otherwise.
his power would have been less than even freakin' Israel, let alone any number of countries around the world.
Um, Israel isn't being led by a megalomanic like Hitler, Saddam, etc. So that sir was a horrible straw-man comparison.
In the late 1930s to early 1940s, Germany had the best army in the world – and Hitler backed this with political clout and industrial power which was among the world's largest. Neither Milosevic nor Hussein had a hope in hell of managing anything close to this, whether we stopped them or not.
Again, your opinion. Not factual. So to say my opinion is wrong, and yours is right is a bit silly.

But you'll still keep doing it I bet.

You have yet to debunk anything I've said. You've just offered opinions that differ from mine, at the same time trying to pass them off as fact.

The only FACTS in tyhe matter is, all 3 of them were murderous genocidal megalomaniacs that would have gotten more dangerous had we let them. Heck Even BILL CLINTON the superstar himself said Milosevic and Hitler were alike. He even was being called "Hitler of the Balkans,"

Here is a cool quote as well
"This is 1935, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is as close to Adolf Hitler as we've seen," said Newt Gingrich to a startled editor at Human Events.

"In 1935 … Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini intimidated the democracies," Newt plunged ahead. "The question is who is going to intimidate who." Yes, a little learning can be a dangerous thing.
Like I said, that is why they got rid of him.

So you can say your OPINIONS differ from mine, and that would be true.

But you haven't even begun to show how my belief was "fatally flawed" like you exaggerated in the beginning of said post.

Now I am sure you will come back, attack me, or tell me how I am wrong and go on about holding my hand etc.

But that will just prove my point further.
( Last edited by Kevin; Mar 12, 2006 at 07:03 AM. )
     
Super Mario
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Mar 12, 2006, 06:57 AM
 
Awesome. Loved it too when Arkan got shot in the head Tough guy.
     
moonmonkey
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Mar 12, 2006, 08:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
In the late 1930s to early 1940s, Germany had the best army in the world
I think you mean second best.
     
yakkiebah
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Mar 12, 2006, 10:08 AM
 
Kev and all those who constantly bring up the Hitler comparisons with Bush, Saddam, milosevic etc.

Here is a nice read for ya'll.

Exploiting genocide - From The Spectator

By: Brendan O'Neill

David Irving, the British historian and anti-Semite, is banged up in Austria, where he faces trial next month for Holocaust denial. He was arrested in November for two speeches he made in that country 15 years ago in which he allegedly denied that there were gas chambers at Auschwitz. Saying such things is a criminal offence in Austria, and if found guilty, Irving faces ten years in jail.

His case is a reminder of the contempt in which we hold those who deny the truth of the greatest horror of the 20th century.

Yet while modern Europe ostracises Holocaust deniers, it has made an art form of another dangerous pursuit: Holocaust relativism. It is now respectable to discover 'new holocausts' and to use the H-word to describe everything from grubby civil wars to the spread of HIV/Aids.

By exploiting the Holocaust for political ends, the Holocaust relativists, sometimes with the best of intentions, do terrible damage. The Holocaust is continually evoked to justify Western military interventions.

The actions of the Serbs, first in Bosnia and later in Kosovo, were frequently described by Western journalists and politicians as 'Nazi-style ethnic cleansing'.

In the spring of 1999 the then British defence secretary George Robertson described Yugoslavia as 'a regime . . . intent on genocide' and said the Nato air strikes were designed to stop the 'ethnic cleansing extermination policy'. Even the German Social Democrats got in on the act, with their then defence minister Rudolf Scharping claiming that there was 'serious evidence' in Kosovo of 'systematic extermination that recalls in a horrible way what was done in the name of Germany at the beginning of World War II'.

The media indulged these fantasies. On 29 March 1999 the Daily Mail's front page carried a picture of Kosovo Albanian children in a lorry under the headline 'Flight from genocide: their terrified and bewildered faces evoke memories of the Holocaust'. The Sun ran with the headline 'NAZIS 1999: Serb cruelty has chilling echoes of the Holocaust'. Some Jews found this cheapening of the Holocaust deeply offensive. Nazi camp survivor Elie Wiesel said, 'The Holocaust was conceived to annihilate the last Jew on the planet. Does anyone believe that Milosevic and his accomplices seriously planned to exterminate all the Bosnians, all the Albanians, all the Muslims in the world?' The final number of civilians killed in Kosovo Kosovo Albanians by Milosevic's cronies and Serbs in Nato air strikes was fewer than 3,000. There was said to have been a mass grave at Trepca in northern Kosovo, and according to the Daily Mirror the name of that place would 'live alongside Belsen, Auschwitz and Treblinka'. Following four months of investigation the International War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague announced that its investigators had found no bodies at all in Trepca.

Conjuring up the spectre of new Hitlers is still a trick favoured by those calling for wars of intervention. Both George Bushes evoked the spectre of Nazism to justify attacking Iraq. In 1990 Bush Senior said of Saddam, 'We're dealing with Hitler revisited.' More recently Bush Junior's administration went so far as to suggest that Saddam might be even worse than Hitler.

According to a BBC News report, Victoria Clarke, spokeswoman for the Pentagon, said in the early days of the Iraq war that Saddam was 'the worst ruler in world history'. The French decision not to back the invasion was constantly compared with its earlier capitulation to the Nazis. The New York Post asked, 'Where are the French now, as Americans prepare to put the soldiers on the line to fight today's Hitler, Saddam Hussein?' The Third Reich oversaw one of the most powerful states on earth and had clear ambitions to dominate Europe. Saddam's desert state was one of the weakest in the world, ravaged by war and sanctions, which could barely fire a few dud missiles as far as neighbouring Kuwait and which collapsed pretty much as soon as the Coalition's tanks rolled across its borders in 2003. Yet there is a tradition of describing tinpot dictators as 'today's Hitlers': before Saddam, Nasser, Ho Chi Minh, Gaddafi, Milosevic and even Mullah Omar, the one-eyed weirdo who ruled Afghanistan under the Taleban, were talked about as modern-day authors of holocausts.

By hiding behind the Holocaust to justify military interventions, political leaders seek to silence their critics. If you were against intervening in Bosnia, Kosovo or Iraq, then you were an 'appeaser' or, worse, a 'holocaust denier'. This poisonous slur of 'denial' is really an attempt to shut down debate by putting the critics of military intervention beyond the pale. The interventionists play the worst horror in modern history as their trump card.

Regrettably, anti-war activists and writers, instead of defending the memory of the Holocaust from these exploiters and relativists, have tried to outdo them. Harold Pinter says, 'The US is really beyond reason now. . . . There is only one comparison:

Nazi Germany.' Corin Redgrave has suggested that Bush might be worse than Hitler, saying of Guantanamo Bay, 'Even the Nazis allowed the Red Cross to visit their prisoners: why won't America?' During America's bombardment of Fallujah the veteran anti-war journalist John Pilger said, 'the Americans view Iraqis as Untermenschen, a term that Hitler used in Mein Kampf to describe Jews, Romanies and Slavs as subhumans'. Nelson Mandela accused Bush of 'wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust'. Sister Helen Prejean, the American nun who comforts prisoners on death row, recently compared US Supreme Court justices to Nazis. 'They do not see the people they are dealing with as human. That's how Auschwitz happened, ' she said.

The debate about terrorism has also become an unsavoury spat between two sides trying to out-Holocaust each other.

Those concerned that the war on terrorism unfairly victimises Muslims accuse the American and British governments of using 'Nazi-style' tactics. So some people claim that genocidal Islamic terrorists threaten a holocaust against Jews or Christians, while others claim, in the words of a New Statesman front cover, that 'The Next Holocaust' will be against Muslims. Either Islamo-fascism is plotting a holocaust, or Islamophobia will lead to a holocaust; take your pick.

The New Labour government best sums up the contradictory attitude to the Holocaust today. It has both tried to turn the Holocaust into a moral absolute, one point of agreement in our otherwise deeply divided and relativistic times, while also denigrating it in other ways. So the government launched the Holocaust Memorial Day as a kind of moral anchor at a time when our leaders are fairly bereft of inspiring ideas; yet at the same time it has promoted teaching the Holocaust in schools as a way of instructing children about difference, identity and self-esteem, and even the evils of bullying. Under New Labour Holocaust teaching has been taken from the history classes and lumped in with lessons on citizenship or personal and social development. Holocausts, apparently, are no longer only what happen when good men do nothing, but when bullies are allowed to nick your dinner money without reprimand.

So degraded is our historical memory of the Holocaust today that Peta People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals could launch a campaign called 'The Holocaust on Your Plate'. Its aim was to raise awareness about the meat industry.

Posters showed a picture of Jewish children imprisoned in Nazi camps next to a picture of pigs in a pen awaiting slaughter, under the headline 'The Final Indignity?' This is where Holocaust relativism gets us: to a situation where Jews are compared to pigs and the murder of six million men, women and children to the killing of animals for meat.

The Holocaust is far too important an event to be turned into a platform for moral posturing. The arguments of Irving and his cranky neo-Nazi disciples are easily dispatched by anyone with a brain and access to the facts; it is the arguments of the Holocaust relativists that we really must guard against today.
     
von Wrangell
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Mar 12, 2006, 10:26 AM
 
Perhaps you Milosevic supporters should have seen with your own eyes the horror committed by the Serbs. Perhaps you need to stumble upon mass graves with children below the age of 12 who were killed just because of their religion. Perhaps you need to enter small villages were only women were left because the men had been taken into the woods and executed.

But nah, that wouldn't change your views a bit. You're intent on supporting anyone who slaughters Muslims. Doesn't matter if that Muslim is a 10 year old kid. You're intent on supporting anyone who rapes women just because of their religion. Doesn't matter if that woman is raped in front of her children.

You'll support them anyway.

ps. here's some reality for you:

http://www.***********/archives/2005...tion_video.wmv

( from o g r i s h . com)

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Pendergast
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Perhaps you Milosevic supporters should have seen with your own eyes the horror committed by the Serbs. Perhaps you need to stumble upon mass graves with children below the age of 12 who were killed just because of their religion. Perhaps you need to enter small villages were only women were left because the men had been taken into the woods and executed.

But nah, that wouldn't change your views a bit. You're intent on supporting anyone who slaughters Muslims. Doesn't matter if that Muslim is a 10 year old kid. You're intent on supporting anyone who rapes women just because of their religion. Doesn't matter if that woman is raped in front of her children.

You'll support them anyway.

ps. here's some reality for you:

http://www.***********/archives/2005...tion_video.wmv

( from o g r i s h . com)
Reality testing can be so bad as to trigger more denial...

I am surprised we have not seen much "fuzzy"-like intervention yet.
"Criticism is a misconception: we must read not to understand others but to understand ourselves.”

Emile M. Cioran
     
Hawkeye_a
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Perhaps you Milosevic supporters should have seen with your own eyes the horror committed by the Serbs. Perhaps you need to stumble upon mass graves with children below the age of 12 who were killed just because of their religion. Perhaps you need to enter small villages were only women were left because the men had been taken into the woods and executed.

But nah, that wouldn't change your views a bit. You're intent on supporting anyone who slaughters Muslims. Doesn't matter if that Muslim is a 10 year old kid. You're intent on supporting anyone who rapes women just because of their religion. Doesn't matter if that woman is raped in front of her children.

You'll support them anyway.

ps. here's some reality for you:

http://www.***********/archives/2005...tion_video.wmv

( from o g r i s h . com)
Perhaps, you need to chill the **** out and realize that you are debating with people from countries that sent peacekeapers into that region to STOP Milosevic. Some of us (ahem) probably even have friends/family who were involved in the peacekeeping missions.

You accuse US of "supporting them anyway" ? how dare you ? HOW DARE YOU ?

There you stand, supporting Hammas openly and then accuse US, who, as a community faught to end Milosevic's rule.

Doofy, its it so funny how, no matter what the argument, this nutjob ALWAYS supports the muslim side of the equation ? whether it be Al Quadea, OBL, Hammas, Kashmiri militants, Chechen terrorists, etc, etc ? it's so hypocritical cause he so openly supports muslim militants, and yet lives a free live in the west.

By the way, vW, in case you forgot, that area has been a hot bed of muslim-christian conflict for eons now. The Serbians just so happened to be the 'victims' this time around, at this particular point in time. that does not make their ancestors innocent of warcrimes against Albanians. so dont go blowing your horn. Milosevic didnt just wake up one morning and decided to commit the atroticites he did out of nowhere. Many of my colleagues are macedonians, and even though they hate Milosevic they dont support the Serbians who have been doing exactly the same things to non-muslims for hundreds of years.

So take your racism elsewhere, you self righteous fanatic.
     
von Wrangell
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a
Perhaps, you need to chill the **** out and realize that you are debating with people from countries that sent peacekeapers into that region to STOP Milosevic. Some of us (ahem) probably even have friends/family who were involved in the peacekeeping missions.

You accuse US of "supporting them anyway" ? how dare you ? HOW DARE YOU ?

There you stand, supporting Hammas openly and then accuse US, who, as a community faught to end Milosevic's rule.

By the way, vW, in case you forgot, that area has been a hot bed of muslim-christian conflict for eons now. The Serbians just so happened to be the 'victims' this time around, at this particular point in time. that does not make their ancestors innocent of warcrimes against Albanians. so dont go blowing your horn. Milosevic didnt just wake up one morning and decided to commit the atroticites he did out of nowhere. Many of my colleagues are macedonians, and even though they hate Milosevic they dont support Albanians, who have been doing exactly the same to non-muslims for hundreds of years.

So take your racism elsewhere, you self righteous fanatic.
I was there. In peacekeeping. I saw with my own eyes what this monster that yakkiebah and doofy are defending did. So you can just fekk off trying to tell me to calm down. To see someone defend genocide, ethnic cleansing, rapes, etc etc just because the victims were The Favourite Enemy of Today™ makes me pissed off.

So fekk right off will ya?

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Pendergast
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a
Perhaps, you need to chill the **** out and realize that you are debating with people from countries that sent peacekeapers into that region to STOP Milosevic. Some of us (ahem) probably even have friends/family who were involved in the peacekeeping missions.

You accuse US of "supporting them anyway" ? how dare you ? HOW DARE YOU ?

(...)

So take your racism elsewhere, you self righteous fanatic.

Take a breather.

Some people from one country do not make the whole country.

Are you sure you are representative of your own country?
"Criticism is a misconception: we must read not to understand others but to understand ourselves.”

Emile M. Cioran
     
yakkiebah
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:18 AM
 
If you saw it with your own eyes then where the fekk were you when he was on trial? Someone call the tribinal! We have a witness!

I'm defending Slobo? Where? All i'm saying it isn't the black and white story you're(and others) trying it out to be. Have you read any of the sources i've provided? Have you followed the trial, at all? Do you know anything, besides a few video clips, from the conflict and it's history?

I said there was hardly a good side to be found in this conflict, the thing you are excusing me of is exactly what you are doing!
     
Kevin
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by yakkiebah
Kev and all those who constantly bring up the Hitler comparisons with Bush, Saddam, milosevic etc.

Here is a nice read for ya'll.
No one is bringing up Bush/Hitler comparisons because they know they'd get laughed out of the forum.

And your link (You don't need to quote the whole link when you post a link yakki, that is a form of "flooding people out" posting a snippet, and the link is sufficient.) Didn't really prove anything I've offered up to the plate as bogus. The author gave us an opinion.

And yeah von's accusations of "Us supporting them anyway" is as usually off base and deluded.

But we can expect that from von. He has already proven to be a history re-writer when it suits his whims.

I have shown that when we went into Bosnia, we did so fearing we had another Hitler on our hands by the people that were in charge at the time, and some people that were not.

Now, you can say in your opinion he wasn't close to being Hitler, and that is fine, but that doesn't suddenly invalidate my claims or proof.

That just says you don't think so.

Dig?
     
von Wrangell
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by yakkiebah
If you saw it with your own eyes then where the fekk were you when he was on trial? Someone call the tribinal! We have a witness!
I gave all the necessary information to my superiors. That's all I needed to do.
I'm defending Slobo? Where? All i'm saying it isn't the black and white story you're(and others) trying it out to be. Have you read any of the sources i've provided? Have you followed the trial, at all? Do you know anything, besides a few video clips, from the conflict and it's history?
Of course it isn't black&white. Both sides committed horrors that should be punished. But in this thread we are discussing the animal called Slobo Milosevic. And you've consistently tried to diminish his acts or tried to shift blame. But again, that's nothing new.
I said there was hardly a good side to be found in this conflict, the thing you are excusing me of is exactly what you are doing!
The good side were the innocent people killed in this "conflict". A genocide was committed by one side. Ethnic cleansing attempted by most sides. Mass murder and general atrocities by all sides.

But in this thread we are discussing Milosevic. He's an animal that got away easy. And he's an animal being defended by people like Hawkeye and Doofy. I'm sorry for putting you in that bracket. That was wrong. You've only tried to shift the blame and tried to diminish his acts.

I apologise for saying you defended him.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Kevin
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:31 AM
 
There was animals on BOTH sides that got away easy.
     
Doofy
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
I was there. In peacekeeping. I saw with my own eyes what this monster that yakkiebah and doofy are defending did.
You saw the aftermath of what someone did. You didn't see any proof whatsoever of who did it - that's an idea coming solely from your bias towards your "brothers" and justification propaganda from the "allies".
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Kevin
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:50 AM
 
And for the record, I don't think Doofy was DEFENDING anything. Just stating facts about the PROOF of both sides.

I am not sure how anyone can DEFEND the actions of EITHER side in this.
     
yakkiebah
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Of course it isn't black&white. Both sides committed horrors that should be punished. But in this thread we are discussing the animal called Slobo Milosevic. And you've consistently tried to diminish his acts or tried to shift blame. But again, that's nothing new.
Nothing new? Eh, i don't think there was another thread about him.

I wasn't shifting blame i was trying to keep things in perspective. I've posted a long and interesting piece from wikipedia. Putting the blame on just Slobo and/or the Serbs, or comparing him with Hitler(or anyone else for that matter), is very ignorant.

Anyway, thanks for the apology.
     
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by yakkiebah
or comparing him with Hitler(or anyone else for that matter), is very ignorant.
That is your OPINION, one that you certainly haven't backed up. But ok.
     
Doofy
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Of course it isn't black&white. Both sides committed horrors that should be punished. But in this thread we are discussing the animal called Slobo Milosevic.
That's convenient - discuss the actions of only one side without discussing the actions of the other. That way, you can avoid any discussion of what drove Slobby to take the actions he did and pretend that he did just wake up one morning and decide to go for a bit of ethnic cleansing.

Fact: Until two months before the allies opened hostilities against Serbia, the KLA were deemed to be a terrorist organisation by the US. Thus Slobby was mostly fighting his own "war on terror". And much of the same propaganda which is levelled at the US in Iraq now was being levelled against Serbia then. Of course, this was before 9/11 so the US hadn't really got a clue what fighting terrorism on a massive scale involves.
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Kevin
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:59 AM
 
I don't think what we are doing with the terrorists is the same thing Slobby was doing. Considering from the start, before this "fighting" happened the man has some disturbing ideals and plans.

While the people he was fighting were terrorists, I don't believe he wanted them gone for that reason.

And you are correct in your assessment that at the time, terrorism isn't what it is now. We may have acted differently today.


But that is kinda funny, we helped them out with Slobby, but yet we are STILL "THE GREAT SATAN"

But then again, they can't or wont admit that probably.
     
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Mar 12, 2006, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
And for the record, I don't think Doofy was DEFENDING anything. Just stating facts about the PROOF of both sides.
Yep, precisely.

Von is knee-jerking on behalf of his brothers again.
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von Wrangell
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by yakkiebah
Nothing new? Eh, i don't think there was another thread about him.

I wasn't shifting blame i was trying to keep things in perspective. I've posted a long and interesting piece from wikipedia. Putting the blame on just Slobo and/or the Serbs, or comparing him with Hitler(or anyone else for that matter), is very ignorant.

Anyway, thanks for the apology.
Only Serbs were guilty of genocide. Serbs had the most (if not all) concentration camps were systematic rapes, torture and executions took place. Serbs are the main perpetrator of the horror of the Balkan War. Slobo was responsible for those acts.

Comparing Slobo to Hitler is a stretch but there are similarities. A systematic campaign of genocide, ethnic cleansing and concentration camps. A smaller case of course but that really is irrelevant. Anyone that puts up an active campaign of genocide, ethnic cleansing and concentration camps deserves to be compared to Hitler. Comparing someone to Hitler isn't saying that he was as bad as Hitler. It's simply comparing the two policies that are based on exterminating a group of people and create a "clean" homeland.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
I don't think what we are doing with the terrorists is the same thing Slobby was doing. Considering from the start, before this "fighting" happened the man has some disturbing ideals and plans.

While the people he was fighting were terrorists, I don't believe he wanted them gone for that reason.
The difference is in the location. Slobby was fighting on his own soil - our Iraq boys aren't. I'm pretty sure that if the majority of, say, Canadians on US soil started terrorist activities against the US today in the same way that the KLA were going against Slobby, there'd be a bit of a "round-up, export" thing happening there too.

I mean, this thing had been going for 800 years in one form or another - that's enough to try any nation's patience. It was only ever going to end up in a mess.
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Comparing someone to Hitler isn't saying that he was as bad as Hitler. It's simply comparing the two policies that are based on exterminating a group of people and create a "clean" homeland.
Exactly. Me and von are agreeing here. Mark it down.
     
yakkiebah
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:07 PM
 
I've already posted the info regarding this matter.
     
Doofy
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Only Serbs were guilty of genocide.
Complete and utter tripe.
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Kevin
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
The difference is in the location. Slobby was fighting on his own soil - our Iraq boys aren't. I'm pretty sure that if the majority of, say, Canadians on US soil started terrorist activities against the US today in the same way that the KLA were going against Slobby, there'd be a bit of a "round-up, export" thing happening there too.

I mean, this thing had been going for 800 years in one form or another - that's enough to try any nation's patience. It was only ever going to end up in a mess.
I have a feeling Slobby would have done something terrible if the KLA wasn't even about. Read some of his early works and writings. Reminds me of something Hitler would say.

And it wasn't all about terrorism or getting rid of it.
     
Kevin
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by yakkiebah
I've already posted the info regarding this matter.
Info regarding what matter? Comparing them to Hitler? Yes, you posted an OPINION piece that didn't disprove anything we've said.
     
yakkiebah
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
Info regarding what matter? Comparing them to Hitler? Yes, you posted an OPINION piece that didn't disprove anything we've said.
No, before that. My first & second post here.


oops not second but fourth
     
Kevin
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by yakkiebah
No, before that. My first & second post here.
Your FIRST post was a post from Wiki that has been disputed on the very page you posted.

The second was

Originally Posted by yakkiebah
It's a huge stretch.
Now which post was the info at?

(edit_)

Ah the 4th. You should really be a bit more descriptive in your posts to who and what you are referring to.

Thanks.
     
Doofy
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
I have a feeling Slobby would have done something terrible if the KLA wasn't even about. Read some of his early works and writings.
Do you not think that those early writings could have been influenced by 700+ years of conflict between the two peoples?
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yakkiebah
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:16 PM
 
Please P1ss 0ff! I was replying to vW!
     
Kevin
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Mar 12, 2006, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
Do you not think that those early writings could have been influenced by 700+ years of conflict between the two peoples?
Could very well be. But his ideas wasn't to get rid of the problem, but the people.

He had very racist views that actually reminded me of Hitlers view of people that weren't "pure" in race.
     
 
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