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Since EBCDIC · Mar 9, 2006, 12:38 PM

<underwhelmed>

Checking today's thrilling news I discover that Microsoft is proudly touting it's brand new "Origami" portable take-along computer. Touch screen. Stylus.

Only Microsft / Samsung could take today's technology and create what *basically* is a 1997 Apple MessagePad 2100 + a WiFi card. How depressing.

We were *so* far ahead of our times, we early adopters.

Sob.

</underwhelmed>

Wiskedjak · Mar 9, 2006, 12:42 PM

ummm ... last I checked, Microsoft doesn't make any portable take along computers ...

Samsung has created what is basically a 1997 Apple MessagePad 2100. Microsoft has simply developed software that can be used with this messagepad

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 12:46 PM

I think the moral of the story is it should be Apple making this, not Microsoft.

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I think the moral of the story is it should be Apple making this, not Microsoft.

Bullcrap.

The moral is: Apple figured out 8 years ago that there is no viable market for this.
Let M$ and Samsung do the same mistake now.

For the forseeable future, that is NOT an interesting market for consumer products.

-t

greenamp · Mar 9, 2006, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Bullcrap.

The moral is: Apple figured out 8 years ago that there is no viable market for this.
Let M$ and Samsung do the same mistake now.

For the forseeable future, that is NOT an interesting market for consumer products.

-t

QFT

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Bullcrap.

The moral is: Apple figured out 8 years ago that there is no viable market for this.
Let M$ and Samsung do the same mistake now.

For the forseeable future, that is NOT an interesting market for consumer products.

-t

...You been to a doctors office recently?

I Bent My Wookiee · Mar 9, 2006, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

...You been to a doctors office recently?

He was banned so I think he is suffering from the physiological effects ever since.

Not that he really had it together before the incident.

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

He was banned so I think he is suffering from the physiological effects ever since.
Not that he really had it together before the incident.

Btw, when was what_the_heck ever banned ?

-t

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

...You been to a doctors office recently?

Ok, got any real arguments ?

-t

I Bent My Wookiee · Mar 9, 2006, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Btw, when was what_the_heck ever banned ?

-t

Turtle was banned and that's you.

mduell · Mar 9, 2006, 01:58 PM

Sure, if you ignore a high-res color screen, real CPU, HDD storage, etc.

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

Turtle was banned and that's you.

I beg to differ: I'm the successor and heir to turtle

-t

I Bent My Wookiee · Mar 9, 2006, 02:04 PM

Actually I just watched this video and my problem is not with the OS but the hardware.

In typical PC fashion they have thrown in every port, LED status light and card reader because they are insecure. If it is a touchscreen then why are they jog shuttles, buttons and quicklaunch buttons on each side of the screen?

The OS has some neat features like drawing an "h" on the screen takes you home, "m" for music. Neat idea but very much like what Apple did the the newton.

http://www.zdnetasia.com/itlibrary/w...9315918,00.htm

I Bent My Wookiee · Mar 9, 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

I beg to differ: I'm the successor and heir to turtle

-t

Whatever, funny stuff as always

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

Whatever, funny stuff as always

-t

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

He was banned so I think he is suffering from the physiological effects ever since.

Not that he really had it together before the incident.

Actually it is a real argument. Every doctors office I've been to in the last year has used an entirely tablet PC based system. In addition, I'm seeing at least one tablet PC in each of my classes.

Mac users would be foolish to miss the tablet PC starting to catch on.

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Actually it is a real argument. Every doctors office I've been to in the last year has used an entirely tablet PC based system.

Haven't seen any here at the doctors...

Originally Posted by goMac

In addition, I'm seeing at least one tablet PC in each of my classes..

Yeah, a bunch of 16 year old geeks is definitely a viable market for Apple

Originally Posted by goMac

Über-geeks and 1337 haxxors would be foolish to miss the tablet PC starting to catch on.

Fixinated.

-t

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Yeah, a bunch of 16 year old geeks is definitely a viable market for Apple

University students are 16 year old geeks? Wow.. never knew...

I Bent My Wookiee · Mar 9, 2006, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Actually it is a real argument. Every doctors office I've been to in the last year has used an entirely tablet PC based system. In addition, I'm seeing at least one tablet PC in each of my classes..

Still that is a small market. There are more lawyers than doctors

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

University students are 16 year old geeks? Wow.. never knew...

Ok, make that 21 year olds. Same difference.

-t

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

Still that is a small market. There are more lawyers than doctors

Sure, but my point is the tablet PC is starting to catch on in markets that need mobile data entry, such as the medical field.

I Bent My Wookiee · 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Sure, but my point is the tablet PC is starting to catch on in markets that need mobile data entry, such as the medical field.

Fine, and PDA's have their markets also. Problem is it is a niche and not worth Apple getting into right now.

If Apple came out with a PDA tomorrow it would sell, problem is not enough would sell to make it worth their time.

http://news.com.com/Reality+check+fo...43.html?tag=nl

slugslugslug · Mar 9, 2006, 04:08 PM

I mentioned in another thread that these days, at least Intel's work could save Apple some R&D money, since they could build a decent case and tune their OS to work with a UMPC chipset way quicker than designing from the ground up.

Still:

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

Fine, and PDA's have their markets also. Problem is it is a niche and not worth Apple getting into right now.

If Apple came out with a PDA tomorrow it would sell, problem is not enough would sell to make it worth their time.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Even if doctors love these things, they'll buy the ones that run Windows. As much as I would love Apple to take this idea and run with it, I doubt it'll ever come to market. Until Apple's got a way bigger share of desktops/laptops, it's not worth competing in all these specialty-PC niches.

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

Fine, and PDA's have their markets also. Problem is it is a niche and not worth Apple getting into right now.

If Apple came out with a PDA tomorrow it would sell, problem is not enough would sell to make it worth their time.

http://news.com.com/Reality+check+fo...43.html?tag=nl

The Macintosh is a niche market, I don't see anyone saying Apple should give up on it.

The tablet PC is a niche market right now, yes. That doesn't automatically make it an unsuccessful market. If anything, Apple has proven that with the Macintosh. The Tablet PC is the Macintosh of the handheld market.

boots · Mar 9, 2006, 04:38 PM

All the sales reps that come through have tablet PC's. Yeah, it's a niche, but it's a pretty big niche.

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

The Macintosh is a niche market, I don't see anyone saying Apple should give up on it.

Basic math says it doesn't make sense.

Apples market share: around 5%
Tablet PCs market share (I dunno, just guessed): 1%

So Apple would target a market of 0.05% if it was a as successful with tablets as with desktop and laptop PCs.

DOESN'T MAKE SENSE !

-t

boots · Mar 9, 2006, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

DOESN'T MAKE SENSE !

-t

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!

::maroma:: · Mar 9, 2006, 05:10 PM

Apple innovates. With new products, that's Apple's main goal. To bring something to the market that hasn't been brought before. The tablet PC has been here for a while. This Origami thing is just a natural evolution of the tablet PC that has been done before. The market is tiny, at the moment. Apple wont be entering this market any time soon. You can bet they're working on something similar, but that doesn't mean they'll release it.

In Apple's world, Apple is late to this tablet PC game. Traditionally, if Apple is late to a game they won't enter it. Especially if the game is pretty lame. Like this one is.

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Apple innovates. With new products, that's Apple's main goal. To bring something to the market that hasn't been brought before. The tablet PC has been here for a while. This Origami thing is just a natural evolution of the tablet PC that has been done before. The market is tiny, at the moment. Apple wont be entering this market any time soon. You can bet they're working on something similar, but that doesn't mean they'll release it.

In Apple's world, Apple is late to this tablet PC game. Traditionally, if Apple is late to a game they won't enter it. Especially if the game is pretty lame. Like this one is.

I don't think you're correct. Apple has never created a new product space. Instead, they evolve existing products.

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I don't think you're correct. Apple has never created a new product space. Instead, they evolve existing products.

Ok, but they only became active if the market was in it's infancy and had great potential.
E.g. iPod.

Both not true for tablet PCs. For the last eleventy billion years, it was predicted they they will be BIIIIIGGGGG with the consumers. Blablabla...

-t

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Ok, but they only became active if the market was in it's infancy and had great potential.
E.g. iPod.

Both not true for tablet PCs. For the last eleventy billion years, it was predicted they they will be BIIIIIGGGGG with the consumers. Blablabla...

-t

The MP3 player market was around long before the iPod.

Apple goes into niche markets and makes them big. The iPod made the niche MP3 player market big. The Macintosh made the niche personal computer market big. Apple could do with the tablet PC market what they did with the iPod. But with Origami, Microsoft might beat them to it and take tablet PC's to the mass market.

greenamp · Mar 9, 2006, 07:06 PM

Arguing over who was first to make some new type of device is stupid and pointless. Most often the true inventors of any new device are swallowed up by bigger companies and are never known.

It's not important who made it first, what's important is who makes it the best. Apple made the iPod the best mp3 player. If Apple decided to make a mobile computer device, they would most likely make a damned good one.

This Origami thing is a blessing in disguise for Apple. If it lands well with consumers they can jump on the band wagon with a similar device for Mac users. If it flops, they save time and money by either scrapping plans or learning from the devices failure and making a better product, which Apple is quite good at.

It's really a win-win situation.

runningdog · Mar 9, 2006, 07:26 PM

i have yet to see a doctor or anyone use a tablet pc. i have seen a lot of pda use by doctors.

Spliffdaddy · Mar 9, 2006, 07:36 PM

Tablet PCs are used in quite a lot of medical facilities/clinics. Not necessarily by doctors themselves, but by the nurses and staff. Doctors don't do any real work.

That being said, I doubt anyone would want an Apple tablet PC.

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by runningdog

i have yet to see a doctor or anyone use a tablet pc. i have seen a lot of pda use by doctors.

My dentist, the people that operated on my wisdom teeth, and the entire practice where my normal doctor is are all tablet PC based.

willed · Mar 9, 2006, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I don't think you're correct. Apple has never created a new product space. Instead, they evolve existing products.

I think the Newton is the exception to that statement. And perhaps, of course, the Macintosh.

I've never seen a tablet PC, period. Perhaps they're more common in the US, and I never need to go to the doctor, but OTOH my Dad's a dentist and he would never consider a tablet.

Teronzhul · Mar 9, 2006, 08:08 PM

The only tablet PC I have ever seen was carried by a FEMA inspector. I have never seen one in the possession of a doctor, at either my family practice or any of the 3 local hospitals. In my personal experience, at least in this area, the market is nonexistant.

iREZ · Mar 9, 2006, 08:21 PM

i think the reason the newton failed was because media was never as big on computers as it is now. not only can i have my music, videos, and pictures on this thing...i have wifi, games, and more computer functionality for half the price of an ibook?...i think this is the perfect time for an item like this to hit the shelves...too bad ms has the lock on the os :/

I Bent My Wookiee · Mar 9, 2006, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

The Macintosh is a niche market, I don't see anyone saying Apple should give up on it.

Personal computers are not a niche, but apple has created a niche within the market.

If PDA's are already a niche Apple can't afford to become a niche of a niche.

osiris · Mar 9, 2006, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by iREZ

i think the reason the newton failed was because media was never as big on computers as it is now. not only can i have my music, videos, and pictures on this thing...i have wifi, games, and more computer functionality for half the price of an ibook?...i think this is the perfect time for an item like this to hit the shelves...too bad ms has the lock on the os :/

I agree with this POV. Apple may have created the first portable device like this, but the market and the technology wasn't ready at the time. Now the technology and market is ready for exploit, and MS has brought forth a device that does everything a Newton wanted to do. Maybe Apple will see this and in time learn from whatever problems that may exist, then reinvent the market, again.

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

Personal computers are not a niche, but apple has created a niche within the market.

If PDA's are already a niche Apple can't afford to become a niche of a niche.

The Mac is a niche in the PC market.

The tablet PC is a niche in the PC market.

You can't say the tablet PC cannot be a success because it is a niche.

I Bent My Wookiee · Mar 9, 2006, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

The Mac is a niche in the PC market.

The tablet PC is a niche in the PC market.

You can't say the tablet PC cannot be a success because it is a niche.

Yes, but the PC is not a Niche.

it's like this:

Apple has Niche of PC market

Tablets are a niche, apple cannot carve a niche from a niche.

turtle777 · Mar 9, 2006, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

Tablets are a niche, apple cannot carve a niche from a niche.

Forget it. I did the math above. goMac doesn't get it.

-t

I Bent My Wookiee · Mar 9, 2006, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Forget it. I did the math above. goMac doesn't get it.

-t

You should see him in the Nintendo threads, it is even worse.

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

...apple cannot carve a niche from a niche.

...which is exactly what they did with the iPod?

Every product Apple has ever released was into a niche market, taking it more mainstream.

Brass · Mar 9, 2006, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I don't think you're correct. Apple has never created a new product space. Instead, they evolve existing products.

What, like the consumer digital camera?
or
Like the consumer desktop computer?
or
Like the laser printer?
or
Like trackpads on laptops?
or
Like the PDA?

Apple did ALL of these first (and many others)

Brass · Mar 9, 2006, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by runningdog

i have yet to see a doctor or anyone use a tablet pc. i have seen a lot of pda use by doctors.

Come to think of it, what is the difference between a PDA and a small tablet PC? Surely they are exactly the same thing. The only difference seems to be the operating system.

Many PDAs (eg, Newton, Palm) are fully programable computers.
Most table PCs include diary, contacts, memo applications.

Either could include hard disks, and what-not.

What is the difference?

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Brass

What, like the consumer digital camera?
or
Like the consumer desktop computer?
or
Like the laser printer?
or
Like trackpads on laptops?
or
Like the PDA?

Apple did ALL of these first (and many others)

Apple wasn't the first consumer digital camera.

Apple wasn't the first consumer desktop computer.

Apple wasn't the first laser printer.

Apple wasn't the first with trackpads on laptops.

Apple wasn't the first with a PDA.

All existed as niche markets before Apple entered.

You're only proving my point.

Brass · Mar 9, 2006, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Apple wasn't the first consumer digital camera.

Apple wasn't the first consumer desktop computer.

Apple wasn't the first laser printer.

Apple wasn't the first with trackpads on laptops.

Apple wasn't the first with a PDA.

All existed as niche markets before Apple entered.

You're only proving my point.

Interesting. You'll have to point out who was first then.

I'll start:

Steve Wozniak was the first to put a keyboard and monitor together in a computer that was small enough to sit on a desk. He then (with Steve Jobs) formed Apple computer to market and sell them. If you don't believe this is true, please tell us who beat him to it?

The Apple QuickTake was the first consumer digital camera on the market. If you don't believe this, please tell us what was first.

Apple was the first to bring the GUI (mouse/pointer/etc) to the personal computer market. It was conceptualised first by Xerox and demostrated by them to Apple They sold the concept to Apple and Apple figured out how to actually implement it and were the first to bring it to market. If you think someone else was first, please tell us who.

The Apple PowerBook 500 series (520, or 540, I think) was the first laptop to market with a trackpad built in. If you don't think this is true, please tell us which other one was.

The Apple Newton MessagePad was the first stylus/touchscreen/handwriting recognition fully-programable palmtop computer (PDA) to enter the market. If you think another was first, please tell us what was.

I may well be wrong with some or even all of these things, but I'm not prepared to believe I am, unless you can demonstrate it.

goMac · Mar 9, 2006, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Brass

Interesting. You'll have to point out who was first then.

I'll start:

Steve Wozniak was the first to put a keyboard and monitor together in a computer that was small enough to sit on a desk. He then (with Steve Jobs) formed Apple computer to market and sell them. If you don't believe this is true, please tell us who beat him to it?

MOS Computer (later Commodore) in 1975?

Originally Posted by Brass

The Apple QuickTake was the first consumer digital camera on the market. If you don't believe this, please tell us what was first.

There were digital cameras long before the QuickTake. Apple was just moving into a niche market and expanding it (as they could with the tablet PC?).

Originally Posted by Brass

Apple was the first to bring the GUI (mouse/pointer/etc) to the personal computer market. It was conceptualised first by Xerox and demostrated by them to Apple They sold the concept to Apple and Apple figured out how to actually implement it and were the first to bring it to market. If you think someone else was first, please tell us who.

This was never on the original list. This would be an example of Apple taking a niche and innovating in it.

Originally Posted by Brass

The Apple PowerBook 500 series (520, or 540, I think) was the first laptop to market with a trackpad built in. If you don't think this is true, please tell us which other one was.

You might be right on this one. Again though, this is taking a niche product and innovating, as Apple could with the tablet PC.

Originally Posted by Brass

The Apple Newton MessagePad was the first stylus/touchscreen/handwriting recognition fully-programable palmtop computer (PDA) to enter the market. If you think another was first, please tell us what was.

Hmmm. Pick and choose any of the handhelds that shipped with Windows for Pin.

Originally Posted by Brass

I may well be wrong with some or even all of these things, but I'm not prepared to believe I am, unless you can demonstrate it.