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tgrundke · Sep 3, 2003, 10:04 AM

2003 is "The Year of the Laptop" for Apple. Of course, this could have just been marketing hype from the King of Spin himself.

But it is appearing that Apple's well laid out plans to capture a very significant portion of laptop sales has soured as of late. Though rumors have circulated since January as to when we would see a PowerBook 15" update, most people were expecting anytime between May and August.

Surprisingly, it seems that the well has gone dry - with inventories depleated and no new product in the pipeline (exception being a 3-5 day wait from the Apple Store Online).

New rumors today speak of a FUBAR on Motorola's part (suprise!) that may stall a PowerBook introduction into October. In a worst case scenario, this would leave the majority of retail channels empty of product for another four weeks.

The good news could be this: rumors, again, point that Apple may be working extra-diligently in an effort to get G5based PowerBooks out the door, ASAP.

Ironically, this will have a negative effect on incentives for the PowerBook lineup. Assuming that you can find one to purchase, it is likely that incentives will dry up as demand outstrips supply.

So the real question is: have you been trying to find one and been unsuccessful? Do you know of people unable to purchase an Apple laptop at the moment? And speculation aside - how detrimental do you think this will be for Apple moving into the top buying season of the year? (qtrs 4 and 1)

NeXTLoop · Sep 3, 2003, 11:05 AM

It has been the "Year of the Laptop" in the sense that laptops have accounted for a dramatically increased portion of Apple's sales. But it would be nice to see that update.

Mithras · Sep 3, 2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
It has been the "Year of the Laptop" in the sense that laptops have accounted for a dramatically increased portion of Apple's sales. But it would be nice to see that update.

It has been "Year of the Laptop" in the sense that until the G5, they couldn't give the pro towers away.

Riemann Zeta · Sep 3, 2003, 12:16 PM

Once again, Motorola dropped the ball and Apple was ****ed. Same story as the infamous 500 MHz G4 tower year-and-a-half snafu. The G4 is an archaic design on an archaic process (what is it, .18 micron, while Intel has 90 nanometer?) that simply does not scale up well. It is too late for Apple to rectify this problem: the "back-to-school" rush for laptops is over. I hope that IBM makes a 90 nanometer G5 soon...

juanpacolopez · Sep 3, 2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
It has been the "Year of the Laptop" in the sense that laptops have accounted for a dramatically increased portion of Apple's sales. But it would be nice to see that update.

You make the most obvious point...

To add to it, I'm sick of all this "year of the laptop" nonsense. Folks, it HAS been the year of the laptop. January, 2003 saw the introduction of TWO new (and very stunning) models of the PowerBook. The 12" PB is selling so fast it's making heads turn, and laptop sales have achieved (roughly) parity with the desktops (until the G5 of course).

Just because the particular model of Powerbook that someone is waiting for hasn't been released doesn't mean Apple hasn't put a TREMENDOUS amount of effort into it's portable line this year (well, much of the effort probably happend LAST year, but you get my point).

Sakino · Sep 3, 2003, 03:27 PM

I sure the hell hope this isnt true. I need a laptop for school and have been waiting out for on. I would be pissed if they delay the update even longer?!

mrmister · Sep 3, 2003, 03:33 PM

"But it is appearing that Apple's well laid out plans to capture a very significant portion of laptop sales has soured as of late."

News flash: Apple has 7% of the worldwide laptop market, which is a huge increase for them in a very lucrative sector.

In other words...our concerns may not directly correlate to the rest of the universe, and it may have been the Year of the Laptop for Apple without them actually catering to our whims.

Wiskedjak · Sep 3, 2003, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by juanpacolopez:
You make the most obvious point...

To add to it, I'm sick of all this "year of the laptop" nonsense. Folks, it HAS been the year of the laptop. January, 2003 saw the introduction of TWO new (and very stunning) models of the PowerBook.

Two new laptops does not a "year of the laptop" make.

omarv · Sep 3, 2003, 05:21 PM

well this cool 12" pbook has made it a great year of the laptop for me and countless others. Stop daydreaming about the future and you will see that apple currently has the best laptops on the market.

mania · Sep 3, 2003, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by omarv:
well this cool 12" pbook has made it a great year of the laptop for me and countless others. Stop daydreaming about the future and you will see that apple currently has the best laptops on the market.

tru but... i have had an 867 G4 (desktop) for two years. TWO YEARS. to 'upgrade' to another g4 867 now that i want to switch to a laptop would be pathetic. PATHETIC I tells ya! I really do notice some slowness on this thing and there is no way i am gonna put out for another G4.

11011001 · Sep 3, 2003, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by mania:
tru but... i have had an 867 G4 (desktop) for two years. TWO YEARS. to 'upgrade' to another g4 867 now that i want to switch to a laptop would be pathetic. PATHETIC I tells ya! I really do notice some slowness on this thing and there is no way i am gonna put out for another G4.

I am in the exact same position as you are (same computer actually). But, I really do need a portable now.. so.. though I have been dreaming of a G5 PB, I won't get one (a year is too long to wait at this point).

LfGrdMike · Sep 3, 2003, 09:06 PM

Im sorry but I was a fool for not buying my 12 earlier and now I have to wait longer. I am a student, and any other student that waits is a fool. For one thing the PBs upon being updated will either be G4 or G5. Either way you will likely spend more money than you will now. The educational deals are now, and you get a practically free iPod. The only reason why you would need to wait for a new 15 is for better wireless. Otherwise if your going for the other two why are you waiting. The offerings now are great. This Maxed out 12 inch Powerbook i just bought will last me a good four years. All the money I saved by these deals I will put toward something else. Also in 3 years I will get a G5 or G6. Whats the point of waiting. I could be wrong, but you could be just waiting to spend more money on something that isnt that much better than what is offered now. Think about it this way must of that stuff you could live without. USB 2 although its nice could be something you could live without. Its your choice. I know these deals dont end until sep 27th. Why wait, and you dont know if they will end on that date. why they could end earlier. I am not trying to tell anyone what to do. I am just telling you that you are getting something for a very good price NOW that others have paid hundreds of dollars more for. Take advantage of the benefits available and be happy. Play music on your practically free iPod. Just a little thought to fellow students that are waiting. I waited sense January and to tell you the truth I am very happy I bought now. I got all those great deals. One last comment. School has started so if apple was going to update them they would of. For all we know they could wait until january and then release the G5s then. Please Iknow what some of you are going to say "they get to hot". I am just simply saying though that we will not be able to predict IBMs offerings at this point in time. Once again good luck.

May I suggest to those who havent done so to go on the apple site and price the machines to c what great deals their are. Then go to the educational store if your a student, and compare that with the main store. Apple is giving you a lot this school season I think. I also think this might make up for no new powerbooks, and I think it heals the problem.

curmi · Sep 3, 2003, 09:46 PM

You misunderstood what Steve said. He said "year of THIS laptop".

todrain · Sep 3, 2003, 10:24 PM

I think that Apple did want to update their laptops sooner, but they can't get Motorola to ensure that they'll have something faster down the road.

If it's going to take a year or so to get a G5 into a laptop, Apple needs 2-3 speedbumps to keep sales going. What if there is only one one speed upgrade that Apple can use? They can't release a 1.25 G4 Powerbook in June and wait until next September or so to upgrade them to a G5, so they may have elected to wait. Split the difference, so to speak.

none of this is confiirmed, but just a possibility from my limited knowledge of marketing.

Graymalkin · Sep 4, 2003, 12:13 AM

G5 Powerbooks will not come soon. The G5 at 1.6GHz and up produces way too much heat for the Powerbook chassis design to handle. Even a Powerbook the size of the 17" wouldn't be able to dissipate enough heat to make the chip viable. The G5 would have to be clocked down to 1.2GHz to make it viable in a Powerbook chassis. When clocked that low it loses much of its advantage over a G4 at the same speed. Memory is also a problem as the G5 works best when the memory is interleaved which would mean without a major chassis redesign it wouldn't be user serviceable. A laptop chassis that provided access to both RAM slots would be quite a feat.

It would make a lot more sense to wait until IBM was producing the G5 on a 90nm process. The chip would then fit much better into a laptop design and require a lot less engineering work on the chassis and motherboard design.

I think for now a move to the Intrepid system controller (the one used in the 12" and 17" Powerbooks) would be a good move for the 15". It would get all the extras and doodads the 17" can handle like AP Extreme, Bluetooth, and FW800. Then in a year or so when IBM's got 90nm G5s in full production the market would be ripe for a G5 laptop. The G4 wasn't stuck in a laptop for a while after the G4 PowerMac was released. Apple had to wait until they had both a lower power version of the G4 and enough of the chips to fill both a desktop and laptop line of systems. I wouldn't expect a G5 Powerbook until maybe a year or so from now, if that.

NightEyes · Sep 4, 2003, 12:35 AM

Everytime I sit down with my 17" PB I think it's the year of the laptop. Best PB Apple has ever produced and the first to make me forget my beloved Pismo.

michaelb · Sep 4, 2003, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Graymalkin:
The G5 would have to be clocked down to 1.2GHz to make it viable in a Powerbook chassis.

Yes, yes, yes!

I'd buy a PowerBook G5 1.2 GHz in a New York minute. It'd still be a kickass speed bump.

Agree with your other points and I think you're right we won't see a PB G5 for a while, if nothing else because of the sucking battery life it'd get.

tritonus · Sep 4, 2003, 07:32 AM

BTW, it's "The year of the notebook", not "laptop"!

http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/j...sf_ref_100.mov

Link · Sep 4, 2003, 07:42 AM

Setting aside all things, I think it's highly possible a G5 powerbook of 1-1.2ghz would be out by the end of the year.

Yes. A g5 powerbook. Having seen the specs it is entirely possible, considering a dual g4 7457 would have many fewer capabilities.

A 1000mhz.. even 1.2ghz.. would have a 500 or 600mhz bus.. incredible on a laptop.

Of course I doubt you'd see a 12" g5 powerbook, but it's entirely possible with a 15" .. or 17" enclosure. Remember the G5s were engineered to be totally quiet in heavy operation.

jamesa · Sep 4, 2003, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Two new laptops does not a "year of the laptop" make.

I think my new .sig sums it up

-- james

juanpacolopez · Sep 4, 2003, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Two new laptops does not a "year of the laptop" make.

What the hell do you people want?

Fuel cell powered G5 laptops @ 1.8Ghz using silent-pump water/freon cooling w/a 4x SuperDrive an a 256Mb RADEON Mobility 9600 w/ 2Gb of DDR RAM?

So THAT's why big-Steve is giving the keynote! Maybe you'll get your wish for a "year of the laptop" yet... keep in mind it's only 3/4 over

TAZ · Sep 4, 2003, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by juanpacolopez:
What the hell do you people want?

Fuel cell powered G5 laptops @ 1.8Ghz using silent-pump water/freon cooling w/a 4x SuperDrive an a 256Mb RADEON Mobility 9600 w/ 2Gb of DDR RAM?

So THAT's why big-Steve is giving the keynote! Maybe you'll get your wish for a "year of the laptop" yet... keep in mind it's only 3/4 over

Only 2 Gig of RAM. That sucks. I will never buy an Apple again since they keep crippling their systems and misleading the public.

Actually, I would like to see an upgrade to the laptop line up as they are long in the tooth, especially the 15" models.

GENERAL_SMILEY · Sep 4, 2003, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by NightEyes:
Everytime I sit down with my 17" PB I think it's the year of the laptop. Best PB Apple has ever produced and the first to make me forget my beloved Pismo.

True dat...

PB2K · Sep 4, 2003, 10:33 AM

I second that, I really miss my pismo tho I have a g4 500 now and a 17"pb ordered

real · Sep 4, 2003, 02:08 PM

"Years of the Notebook"
Its a term, figure of speech.

The Godfather · Sep 4, 2003, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by NightEyes:
Everytime I sit down with my 17" PB I think it's the year of the laptop. Best PB Apple has ever produced and the first to make me forget my beloved Pismo.

Every owner of the latest Mac wish that Apple never develops anything newer.

ae86_16v · 02:23 AM

A 1.2 GHz PPC970 is expected to draw only 19W.

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/t...56D21006AE8A2/$file/PPC970_MPF_Review.pdf

Link · Sep 5, 2003, 03:59 AM

Something I've observed: It seems the only people who seem offended EVEN OF THE IDEA of a g5 laptop are current powerbook owners.

oh well. I'm for sure.. if buying a powerbook anytime soon, not buying until there's been a revision.

Simon · Sep 5, 2003, 04:39 AM

Originally posted by Link:
Something I've observed: It seems the only people who seem offended EVEN OF THE IDEA of a g5 laptop are current powerbook owners.n, not buying until there's been a revision.

That's not entirely true.

I don't think people are offended. They just think the idea is ridiculous.

I use two PowerBooks, but they both belong to my lab not to me. I didn't pay for them. I am however looking forward to buying a new 12" PowerBook for private use. So I would very much like a G5 in there, but...

I absolutely agree with all the people in doubt. Look how long it took Apple to put a G5 into a PowerMac. A machine with much more relaxed boundry conditions.

Now you guys want to see them do miracles within two months. Dream on.

The next rev due by Paris is in no way in the world going to have a G5. Apple has mentioned it. Common sense tells you as well. Get real or be ready to be disappointed.

Link · Sep 6, 2003, 05:52 AM

Yes but just 6 months ago there was a heavy impression that the G5 wouldn't even be out until sometime next year. I made a funny bet on spymac about it and lost.

Oh well. As rediculous as it may be, a desktop g5 1.6 can run TOTALLY SILENT (alas the hard drive noise) with it's cooling configuration.

bring down the speed somewhat and make the laptop scale down when not in use or to conserve battery and you have a very feasible plan. Remember, those huge double-brick (more like triple-brick) heatsinks in the g5 are probably cold to the touch.

And as stated, a 1.2ghz g5 will probably score 19w in heat. A 1.2ghz g4 will score around 14-17w in heat, the only concern is energy, and if anything, that won't change much at all.

The 7457 could very well work great in the powerbook, however. It uses half the energy of the current mobile g4 and as I imagine, probably outputs less heat. In a small laptop where heat and battery life are going to be more of a concern I wouldn't be surprised if you got CONSIDERABLY MORE battery life using a 1.2ghz 7457.

But the 7457 has no ddr support, and no L3.... still perfectly fine for an almost.. subnotebook.

Perhaps the g5 would be limited to the 17", as it's a desktop replacement this could definatley be a better idea. The increased room for battery and more space for cooling are ideal.

Personally, I think it could actually be very intersted, per say, to have BOTH a 15" g4 powerbook *AND* a 15" g5 powerbook.

Of course the idea of this is totally absurd, unless perhaps the tibook's form factor stayed true and the albook 15" was g5.

Ok I'm just ranting now. The point is that it's totally possible IN THE BIGGER LAPTOPS.

I see no reason why a 1.2ghz g5 and 1ghz g4 laptop could not coexist. Multiple product lines are a good way of achieving variety, as most people don't fit just the old 2x2 product lineup.

This could very well happen:

Consumer laptop lineup:

12" 900mhz ibook - 999
12" 1ghz ibook - 1199

in between:

12" 900mhz g4 powerbook - 1499
12" 1ghz g4 powerbook - 1699

top of g4 line.. for mobility but big screen:
15" 1ghz powerbook g4 titanium - 1999

g5 line, desktop replacement but portable:
15" 1ghz aluminum g5 pb - 2499

top:
17" 1.25ghz g5 - 2999

aren't I crazy?

michaelb · Sep 6, 2003, 08:49 AM

Say, for arguments sake, there WAS a PowerBook G5 1.2 GHz in the pipeline for this year / MWSF, would it be likely to have other desktop G5 niceties?

Eg, are Serial-ATA notebook drives available yet?

What about the max RAM - even 4 GB is a lot when PowerBooks typically only have 2 slots, and is memory of that form factor and speed available?

Just wondering at the practicalities. One of the benefits of a G5 is being able to make use of scads of fast RAM.

Link · Sep 7, 2003, 04:51 AM

I'm sure powerbooks could be made to accept future 2gb, and even 4gb SO-DIMMs.

Currently the biggest available is 1gb. The same thing applies to the powermac g5 which can apparently actually take 2gb modules for a max capacity of 16GB of ram.

Naz · Sep 7, 2003, 05:08 AM

I just wacthed the MWSF 2003 stream again and all the man said was, "This Clearly will be the Year of the Powerbook" refering to the cool new 17" and 12" Al he just showed.

Why are people so unhappy? When did people start getting them February?

I wish I watched that stream again sooner I would not have been so frustrated waiting for an update.

here!

Graymalkin · Sep 7, 2003, 05:34 AM

Link:
Variety in limited markets is a bad thing. Take an econ class.

The problem you'd see having a G5 and G4 Powerbook would be similar to the situation with the Cube and PowerMac a couple years ago. The Cube was more stylish but far less expansion friendly than the GigE PowerMac. It didn't have PCI slots, extra drive bays, or a much of a choice in video cards. For $200 less the PowerMac had all those things at the same processor speed. After the price drop of the Cube the PowerMac was still a better deal because for only $100 more than a Cube you got PCI expansion, drive bays, and a wider range of video card choices. Even at the December 2000 price ($1499) the Cube simply could not sell because the PowerMac was a more attractive upgrade for a minimal price increase.

A G4 Powerbook competing against a G5 Powerbook would face the same problem. For marginally more money someone could grab a G5 Powerbook with all its performance increases over the G4 one. There'd be little incentive to save the few hundred bucks because the usable lifetime of the G5 would exceed that of the G4 Powerbook. Sales of the G4 Powerbooks would drop and make the entire line a burden to produce.

tritonus · Sep 8, 2003, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Naz:
"This Clearly will be the Year of the Powerbook"

I watched it too and I heard:

"This clearly will be the Year of the NOTEbook."

nobitacu · Sep 8, 2003, 09:46 AM

I also think this still can be well known as the year of the laptops. Why? well, one reason is because this year Apple has sold more laptops than it's desktops, much more than they ever had before, almost like laptops is their main seller, which in this year... that is the case. They also introduced new lines of the Powerbooks, iBooks (updates). The only think they really left out now is yes, the 15inch Powerbook. But still, there are still a lot more people buying the laptops this year than desktops, with our without the new 15inch Powerbooks. Therefore, to me, it is still the year of the laptops.

Ming

ph0ust · Sep 8, 2003, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by omarv:
well this cool 12" pbook has made it a great year of the laptop for me and countless others. Stop daydreaming about the future and you will see that apple currently has the best laptops on the market.

definitely the best os, and undoubtedly the best looking notebooks.... but the g4 is so antiquated its pathetic. no way can anyone argue that it keeps up with competing processors. i will wait, unfortunately, for a g5 pb. come on apple.... bring em on!