[besson3c]

I've been spending more time than I probably ought to thinking about Rob's theory.

It's interesting to me not because it is a MacNN thing, I don't see it that way at all, but a general internet thing, particularly when anonymous discussion is involved.

I think at a place like this or any other place where anonymous discussion takes place (and some non-anonymous discussion), there is a certain amount of irrationality and absurdity involved, or whatever other term you want to use that results in somebody feeling the need to step in and moderate, it is just that some kinds are deemed compatible and therefore non-problematic, some aren't, and some are aware of their own behavior while others seem oblivious to it.

Rob's problem was that his tactics were deemed incompatible, yet he was either unwilling or unable to dial it back a little so that others could continue to do their own things without confrontation, and he was unable to recognize the fact that the internet is filled with absurdity and irrationality of different forms, and there is nothing we can do about this or change this, which was a notion he seemed unwilling to accept. If he was able to be civil, his participation here would not be fundamentally different than those who, for example:

- can not or will not control their emotions
- feel the need to rant and vent a great deal while avoiding productive discussion
- blog about their personal lives
- confront others needlessly (but somehow manage to fly under the radar)
- argue for sport
- do not take much seriously (ala myself)
- take things personally and make things personal
- have this sort of hyper-defensive ideology on subjects ranging from politics to technology that is not really clear to people so that they can be sensitive to it or avoid these subjects
- enjoy judging and mocking in anonymity

My point is that unless you are one of those personalities that doesn't partake in these sorts of behaviors, you, like many others, use the internet for your own pleasure, and I don't think there is anything "wrong" with that - this is just what the medium lends itself to.

Therefore, my larger point is that it is pointless to try to hold on to this belief that we are fundamentally different from one another (if you partake in the above, or whatever else should be tacked onto my list). Places on the internet with anonymous discussion are simply about choosing what to condone and what to condemn, and will never, ever, ever be possible to agree upon the best balance here. I think the only way to co-exist is simply to allow others to do their own thing as long as it doesn't interfere with other's ability to do theirs. This means there will be a lot of chaos and frustration that goes along with having to tolerate, but it's either that or give up on the idea of providing an environment that is "fair" to everybody. I personally feel like it is a fairly futile attempt to try to carve out separate little sandboxes for those with like minds and segregating the population this way.

Some of you may recall some of my past theories about hands-off moderation. This has been mutating and evolving for a long time now. The above is where I'm at now.

[ghporter]

From my point of view, I think that "hands off" is a good policy...until someone starts behaving in a way that prevents others from enjoying the forums as they would like. Things like "arguing for sport," mocking others just to generate a (negative) reaction, ranting just to rant (as opposed to "venting," which I see as different) and such behaviors can become disruptive and prevent you and me from discussing what we want to discuss as we would like to discuss it.

We would barely need moderation if everybody always followed those kindergarten rules of "take turns," "play nice," and such. But that is not human nature, so we have to get into the issues involved in moderating/refereeing/policing the forums. I don't think it's as much about "strong" personalities as is suggested. I think it is about respecting the medium and the other participants, and those participants' opinions and interests. This is the flip side of "tolerance;" tolerating that others may not agree with your ideas, opinions, manner, etc. without taking offense at their not agreeing with you.

[subego]

Did Rob get banned again?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

Did Rob get banned again?

If he did, this wasn't what prompted this thread.

[freudling]

Who the hell is Rob? And why did you start this thread?

[besson3c]

To make the points I made.

[Face Ache]

[attenborough] And now, we observe the nerd herds of the internet Serengeti. Since 1995 these vast herds have roamed across http borders to drink and feed at the watering holes of their choice.

Here we see a group of 4Chan hyenas harassing a family of lesser Farkers. Over there, a flock of Pinterests are being unwittingly infiltrated by an inebriated Guinness forum poster.

This is all part of the ebb and flow of the internet hinterlands, where safety in numbers offers relative anonymity from the moderator predators.

Suddenly a Mac jackal raises its head above the long grass and is immediately noticed by a hungry MacNN moderator. The jackal tries to make a break for it, throwing witticisms and photoshops behind it in an effort to distract the hunter, who is quickly gaining ground.

Alas, the Mac jackal never really stood a chance. Using his highly specialised moderator powers, the moderator quickly kills his luckless prey and calm is once again, temporarily, restored to the vast plains. [/attenborough]

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

[attenborough] And now, we observe the nerd herds of the internet Serengeti. Since 1995 these vast herds have roamed across http borders to drink and feed at the watering holes of their choice.

Here we see a group of 4Chan hyenas harassing a family of lesser Farkers. Over there, a flock of Pinterests are being unwittingly infiltrated by an inebriated Guinness forum poster.

This is all part of the ebb and flow of the internet hinterlands, where safety in numbers offers relative anonymity from the moderator predators.

Suddenly a Mac jackal raises its head above the long grass and is immediately noticed by a hungry MacNN moderator. The jackal tries to make a break for it, throwing witticisms and photoshops behind it in an effort to distract the hunter, who is quickly gaining ground.

Alas, the Mac jackal never really stood a chance. Using his highly specialised moderator powers, the moderator quickly kills his luckless prey and calm is once again, temporarily, restored to the vast plains. [/attenborough]

The mods on MacNN are way over the top. Control freaks. Luckily there are a couple really good ones who have final authority.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The mods on MacNN are way over the top. Control freaks. Luckily there are a couple really good ones who have final authority.

I don't think they are over the top or control freaks, I just think that they, like most of the internet have been struggling along with me in figuring out how a place like this is best managed.

Like I said, I think the only two options are choosing which self-serving behaviors to condemn and which to condone and thus segregating, or else allowing everything. They have chosen the former, probably for the best, but I think that most haven't figured out that the schticks I've listed are not all that fundamentally dissimilar - they are all about self-gratification.

[subego]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The mods on MacNN are way over the top. Control freaks.

If I were a mod, this right here would make me want to **** with you.

[Shaddim]

Compared to Head-Fi, this place has very light moderation. Over there, even slightly off topic posts are often nuked, and they don't even notify you. Do it more than a couple times and you get a week long vacation.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by subego 

If I were a mod, this right here would make me want to **** with you.

You would make a great 'NN mod.

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

[attenborough] And now, we observe the nerd herds of the internet Serengeti. Since 1995 these vast herds have roamed across http borders to drink and feed at the watering holes of their choice.

Here we see a group of 4Chan hyenas harassing a family of lesser Farkers. Over there, a flock of Pinterests are being unwittingly infiltrated by an inebriated Guinness forum poster.

This is all part of the ebb and flow of the internet hinterlands, where safety in numbers offers relative anonymity from the moderator predators.

Suddenly a Mac jackal raises its head above the long grass and is immediately noticed by a hungry MacNN moderator. The jackal tries to make a break for it, throwing witticisms and photoshops behind it in an effort to distract the hunter, who is quickly gaining ground.

Alas, the Mac jackal never really stood a chance. Using his highly specialised moderator powers, the moderator quickly kills his luckless prey and calm is once again, temporarily, restored to the vast plains. [/attenborough]

This is undoubtedly on track for Post of the Week...on a Monday, no less.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Compared to Head-Fi, this place has very light moderation. Over there, even slightly off topic posts are often nuked, and they don't even notify you. Do it more than a couple times and you get a week long vacation.

Indeed. This board is pretty casual. There are some forums that I've posted on with an answer to a topic and I've had my post deleted because it was similar to someone else's answer. Good heavens!

[subego]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

You would make a great 'NN mod.

I have little desire to be a garbage man, let alone one who after a long day of maggots and dumpster juice gets an "IN YOUR FACE, CONTROL FREAK".

[finboy]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Indeed. This board is pretty casual. There are some forums that I've posted on with an answer to a topic and I've had my post deleted because it was similar to someone else's answer. Good heavens!

Yeah, this place is downright placid to some boards. And not like the old days, either. Yikes!

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Compared to Head-Fi, this place has very light moderation. Over there, even slightly off topic posts are often nuked, and they don't even notify you. Do it more than a couple times and you get a week long vacation.

A few months ago I was perma-banned from a forum for making a tasteless joke. It was my one and only infringement. Tough crowd.

[PB2K]

this thread is so bad !!!

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

A few months ago I was perma-banned from a forum for making a tasteless joke. It was my one and only infringement. Tough crowd.

How tasteless?

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

How tasteless?

Very, but nothing personal.

It was prompted by a moderator interfering in a very civil four page "news" thread, telling us that we should be expressing sentiment, not having an intelligent discussion. So I gave him sentiment... but the opposite of what he expected.

Two years and thousands of posts with no warnings/reprimands and then BLAMMO! Instant bannination.

Truth be told, I think the guy was just looking for an excuse to get rid of me. I can come across online as having a... personality that some folks feel the need to reign in. Sensible, orderly people, who naturally dislike clowns like me. The type of people who volunteer to moderate forums.

There was a period when I couldn't post the time of day on MacNN without being corrected or edited by certain mods/admins. I felt like Frankie Boyle being screened by the Westboro Baptist Church - the boundaries of what was deemed "acceptable" became so narrow that I just gave up. I had some great posts deleted by people who, according to one admin, "just don't like" me.

So it stopped being fun.

It still isn't, really, but I do not linger around this deathbed praying for a miracle. I'm waiting for death.

The lesson I've learned over years of forum postings is that forums are fleeting. Watering holes dry up. The herd moves on...

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The mods on MacNN are way over the top. Control freaks. Luckily there are a couple really good ones who have final authority.

...I thought you left?

http://forums.macnn.com/61/feedback/...r/#post4132014

[PB2K]

How can you describe someone as a strong personality when he disintegrates in front of our eyes, -on an internet forum !

I would describe someone as strong on MacNN Lounge when he makes consistent solid posts. The mods tend to do that. I haven't read posts much so maybe I am wrong about it. But the top10 posters here are definitely not strong personalities, they just post lots of garbage to be noticed among each other. That hurts the overall quality of the forum.

Strong personalities on the not-loungeforums are people who give sound technical advice.