[Chuckmcd]

Hello all.

I'm not normally much of a thread starter but I just heard that my grandmother isn't doing well (again) and it got me thinking. I have opinions of how death fits into life, and how its (death's) very existence effects the way we live and our attitude towards our day to day experiences.

I'm curious what you think a world without death would be like? Feel free to be as philosophical as you wish, or as practical.

...

[Plaides]

sorry to hear about your grandmother...

[Chuckmcd]

Originally posted by Plaides:
sorry to hear about your grandmother...

thank you. I'm really not looking for sympathy though, I've made my peace with it.

I'm not sure a world without death would be such a good thing. At least not the world as it is right now.

[Mastrap]

Chuck, mate, sorry to hear about your grandmother not being well. I hope she has a full and happy life behind her - and of course it might not be the end quite yet.

This is getting very personal, isn't it? A discussion about the big D.
I can remember the first time I was actually aware of my own mortality and it was a bit of a shock. I used to be one of these indestructable people doing silly thing and thinking that there would be no bill to pay - until one day there was. Several years worth. I was not a happy bunny, in fact I was scared shitless. Seeing that "fun" behaviour could lead to destruction was a novel concept.

I aged that second I think. I a good way. I started thinking about myself and what I was doing with my life. Realised that unrestricted hedonism wouldn't see me through until pensionable age and that I'd better get on with it and do something.

Personally, I've never been scared of death. Don't get me wrong, I am sh*t scared of dying, the pain, the potential humiliation of it, the grief it would cause to people who love me, fools that they are But death has never worried me. I remember my own grandmother dying when I was about 8 years old and my mother asking me if I was sad. I remember thinking at the time that that was a strange question to ask because as far as I was concerned she had just moved on somewhere else. Then I read "The Glass Bead Game" and all the feelings I experienced for myselfwere there, written on paper. Then I got involved with Budhism. You know we talked about "knowing" god recently, I guess that's my equivalent. I "know" for myself that there really is nothing to worry about.

[Chuckmcd]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
I can remember the first time I was actually aware of my own mortality and it was a bit of a shock. I used to be one of these indestructable people doing silly thing and thinking that there would be no bill to pay - until one day there was. Several years worth. I was not a happy bunny, in fact I was scared shitless. Seeing that "fun" behaviour could lead to destruction was a novel concept.

I was never really into any destructive behavior.. err, nothing that ever really hurt me at least. two years into college I had a string of people close to me die. A really close friend from high school was shot in a tacco bell, my life drawing professor (who played a large role in my decision to go into design) died suddenly of a heart attack at 50, and my grandfather all past away within a few weeks of one another. I was 19 and it was the first time I had to deal with people I knew just suddenly not being there. My friend hit me the hardest... she was two years younger than I, he brother and I played little league together. She was someone who was just always there.

though it's tragic, I think death is just one part of life. A frightening one sine there no tangible way to know what comes next, or if anything comes next. I don't believe we simply cease to exist, but that's just my opinion. All in all death is the only thing we can all be assured we'll have in common, but it surprizes me how few people ever consider the issue.

[SimeyTheLimey]

I don't know if I have anything particularly philisophical to add, but ten years ago my mother died suddenly of a heart attack at the age of 63. That officially ended my childhood and life has never been quite the same since.

[Mulattabianca]

well then how about having a heart attack at 25???

there are only 2 moments in the life when everyone are ugual.. the birth and the death. everything that is born one day will die. birth = "happy" and "good" and death= "bad". at least i know some people who want to have HAPPY funerals for them (i just doubt i will have mine before).

"what is there after the death?" maybe the exactly the same that there was before we were born.

[ironknee]

Without death, there would not be a need for religion.

[::maroma::]

Hmm..a world without death. That is almost unthinkable to me. I think it would be utter chaos. I mean, death has been with us as long as life has. Death is also just as essential to life as anything else. Without death, there would be no life.

I came to terms with death about 8 years ago when my best friend was shot and killed. He was 20. It was probably the most devistating thing I've ever been through. I fell into a depression that still resonates with me to this day. In that depression I found what it meant to be alive. I found what was important, and I came to terms with the realities of life. As others have said, I lost my innocence. I also learned how other cultures deal with death. Many cultures celebrate death. They see it as a new beginning, or an achievement of enlightenment. I realised that growing up in a society that fears death isn't healthy. We should not fear it. We should embrace it. We should accept it for it's immense importance to us. Mourning is good, dwelling is bad.

I think once one loses the fear of death or dying, that person no longer sees death as a nagative. Sure, I want to live as long as I can, because I love life. But I understand fully that when my time comes it comes. The only nagging question I have about death, is what comes after, if anything? It's an unanswerable question, but one that will not leave me. I have a deep hope that there is something after life. But I don't disregard that there just might be nothing. That is what I fear.
[/ramble]

[funkboy]

Calvin and Hobbes covered the death issue a few times, and I thought one of them was quite eloquent. It began with a black and white sketch Watterson did of a bird, and then enters into a discussion about death. A serious discussion. Not exactly Sunday "Funnies" material, to be sure.

It can be found in the "There's Treasure Everywhere" collection. I couldn't find a URL to the image.

[Chuckmcd]

Originally posted by ironknee:
Without death, there would not be a need for religion.

I think that's a shallow view of religion. Religion is about truth as much as life or death, a worldview that defines one's existence here and now, which may (or may not) be related to post-death experiences.

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Hmm..a world without death. That is almost unthinkable to me. I think it would be utter chaos. I mean, death has been with us as long as life has. Death is also just as essential to life as anything else. Without death, there would be no life.

To some extent I agree with this. What if Hitler never died? Or Stalin? Or Einstien, or <insert name of someone you love>. I've had to deal with death on a few occasions since that summer I mentioned before, but no more than any of you I'm sure. The single event that has probably shaped my life more than any other was the death of my infant daughter. Alot like you ::maroma:: I found myself just at the end of me... There are certain things in life that just aren't supposed to happen and to me that was one of them. But time passes, relentlessly it seems, but it passes. I look back now and had we had our daughter to raise we would have missed out on our son, and then his little sister. I sometimes wonder what life would be like without the effects of our physical deaths... But I always come away from it feeling that without the lose and pain of death our lives would be in some way incomplete.

Balance has come up in an on-going conversation I've been having with a friend, and death seems to bring the final balance to our lives.

[Lerkfish]

Death and I are well-acquainted though we are not necessarily on friendly terms. I've lost mother, father, all grandparents, most of my aunts and uncles, wife, child, and I'm a cancer survivor so I've wrestled with him personally. (I speak anthropomorphically, of course).
I've had to make an uneasy peace with death. I am not afraid of death for myself, as I feel good that whatever happens afterwards I'm prepared for, but I AM tired of losing people I deeply care about. I realize this is somewhat selfish, but I cant help but feel that way.

however, as a christian, my belief is that what comes after this life is a better life, so if there were no death as transition, that would not happen. So I view it in general as a good thing, I just personally would rather be the next one to go before losing any more loved ones....and, like I say, that's rather selfish on my part.

[dav]

i think everything moves in cycles. birth to death. day to night. season to season. year to year. ice age to ice age, heck even big bang to big bang if you believe it. it's a part of us all.
everything changes, i find some comfort in that.

[scaught]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Death and I are well-acquainted though we are not necessarily on friendly terms. I've lost mother, father, all grandparents, most of my aunts and uncles, wife, child, and I'm a cancer survivor so I've wrestled with him personally. (I speak anthropomorphically, of course).
I've had to make an uneasy peace with death. I am not afraid of death for myself, as I feel good that whatever happens afterwards I'm prepared for, but I AM tired of losing people I deeply care about. I realize this is somewhat selfish, but I cant help but feel that way.

however, as a christian, my belief is that what comes after this life is a better life, so if there were no death as transition, that would not happen. So I view it in general as a good thing, I just personally would rather be the next one to go before losing any more loved ones....and, like I say, that's rather selfish on my part.

::::gives Lerk a hug::::

youve seemingly been through what i could sum up today as my greatest fears. my own death? psh. im not afraid of that. losing my wife? i dont know what the hell i would do. it makes me almost cry just thinking about it.

selfish? sure. but i wouldnt say youre alone in the "id rather die than lose someone from my life" camp.

[Chuckmcd]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Death and I are well-acquainted though we are not necessarily on friendly terms. I've lost mother, father, all grandparents, most of my aunts and uncles, wife, child, and I'm a cancer survivor so I've wrestled with him personally. (I speak anthropomorphically, of course).
I've had to make an uneasy peace with death. I am not afraid of death for myself, as I feel good that whatever happens afterwards I'm prepared for, but I AM tired of losing people I deeply care about. I realize this is somewhat selfish, but I cant help but feel that way.

however, as a christian, my belief is that what comes after this life is a better life, so if there were no death as transition, that would not happen. So I view it in general as a good thing, I just personally would rather be the next one to go before losing any more loved ones....and, like I say, that's rather selfish on my part.

I understand what you mean, and agree whole heartedly... I'm not trying to say I enjoy death... but I've come to view it, as you said, in general as a good thing.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by scaught:


::::gives Lerk a hug::::

youve seemingly been through what i could sum up today as my greatest fears. my own death? psh. im not afraid of that. losing my wife? i dont know what the hell i would do. it makes me almost cry just thinking about it.

selfish? sure. but i wouldnt say youre alone in the "id rather die than lose someone from my life" camp.

thanks for the hug.

well, every death was a blow, to be sure, but the two worst were my first wife and then losing a child...there's more details that I won't go into, but losing a spouse or a child enforces a complete change in your life on the day to day level as well as the grief you have to deal with. Everything you come in contact with reminds you of your lost loved one. Losing a parent when you're an adult, for example, is still devastating, but if you don't live in your parents' house, you can more easily compartmentalize the grief. When you lose a spouse, there is no respite, you just have to work your way through it. I have, however, learned good coping skills.

[Nicko]

Death. What, Me Worry? http://www.alcor.org/