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Gee4orce · Sep 9, 2004, 03:41 AM

...with the internal bluetooth adapter, BT keyboard and mouse...

...do you still also receive the wired keyboard and mouse ?

I need BT for synching my phone, but I'm not sold on the BT keyboard and mouse (single button mouse, loss of USB ports on keyboard, etc) - but the bundle price is a bargain.

TiDual · Sep 9, 2004, 04:17 AM

I've ordered my 20" IMac with the wireless bundle, but you can order just the internal BT module, if you want the standard (wired) KB+mouse. I'm pretty certain you won't get them if you order the BT bundle. No big deal for me, since I have several spare KB + mice around.

Though I remember someone saying that G5 desktops, when ordered with a BT KB+mouse, came with the standard KB too. This is because you need a wired KB if you need to use the option keys at boot-time, etc. ... wonder if they've fixed this somehow in the meantime.

Gee4orce · Sep 9, 2004, 05:11 AM

Interesting.

I know you can order the BT separate, but the bundle is only another �25 and for that you get a keyboard and a mouse. I just wondered if it's so cheap because you don't get the wired ones as well.

iBorg · Sep 9, 2004, 09:49 AM

Since it's a BTO upgrade, it certainly won't include the wired peripherals also, especially for the low price they're charging.

iBorg

Jan Van Boghout · Sep 9, 2004, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by iBorg:
Since it's a BTO upgrade, it certainly won't include the wired peripherals also, especially for the low price they're charging.

iBorg

Which strikes me as odd, because not so long ago they were explaining why it wasn't possible to ship with a BT keyboard and mouse standard: to set them up you needed to click through the necessary dialogs to configure the peripherals. Has this been resolved?

PeterKG · Sep 9, 2004, 10:30 AM

The only thing I don't understand about this new iMac is why Apple would not include Bluetooth, instead of making it an option. The reason I say this is that with all the retail stores they have, plus resellers, you are forced to buy from Apple online instead. I would think that will hurt in store sales as I would think most will opt for BT in order to keep a clean footprint and be rid of all the wires. I think it was a bad move. I would rather walk into the Apple store and buy it, and not be forced to order online.

turtle777 · Sep 9, 2004, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Which strikes me as odd, because not so long ago they were explaining why it wasn't possible to ship with a BT keyboard and mouse standard: to set them up you needed to click through the necessary dialogs to configure the peripherals. Has this been resolved?

Meanwhile, Apple has found a way around that problem.

The BT BTO means you are SUBSTITUTING the wired keyboard/mouse with the BT keyboard/mouse.

-t

PeterKG · Sep 9, 2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Meanwhile, Apple has found a way around that problem.

The BT BTO means you are SUBSTITUTING the wired keyboard/mouse with the BT keyboard/mouse.

-t

BTO means they are installing the BT module only. They ARE NOT substituting the wired keyboard and mouse. You have to purchase them seperately. Without the wired keyboard, you can't pair the BT keyboard with the iMac.

TiDual · Sep 9, 2004, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by PeterKG:
BTO means they are installing the BT module only. They ARE NOT substituting the wired keyboard and mouse. You have to purchase them seperately. Without the wired keyboard, you can't pair the BT keyboard with the iMac.

There seems to be some confusion. There are two BTO options:

1. built-in bluetooth module (50 Euro/$)
*or*
2. bluetooth bundle: built-in bt module, bt KB, bt mouse (100 Euro/$)

The question is, whether the latter "bundle" includes the original (wired) KB + mouse too (for the reasons you mention, and the reasons I mentioned in the 2nd post), or if, as someone above suggests, Apple has gotten around the need for the wired kb.

tdward · Sep 9, 2004, 02:49 PM

anybody think to call apple and get the questions answered?

PeterKG · Sep 9, 2004, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by TiDual:
There seems to be some confusion. There are two BTO options:

1. built-in bluetooth module (50 Euro/$)
*or*
2. bluetooth bundle: built-in bt module, bt KB, bt mouse (100 Euro/$)

The question is, whether the latter "bundle" includes the original (wired) KB + mouse too (for the reasons you mention, and the reasons I mentioned in the 2nd post), or if, as someone above suggests, Apple has gotten around the need for the wired kb.

I don't see this bundle offered at Apple USA in the list of options while purchasing an iMac. Perhaps it's only a Euro offered bundle? Plus, you still need a wired keyboard to pair the BT keyboard.

TiDual · 03:44 PM

Originally posted by PeterKG:
I don't see this bundle offered at Apple USA in the list of options while purchasing an iMac. Perhaps it's only a Euro offered bundle? Plus, you still need a wired keyboard to pair the BT keyboard.

Interesting if it's only a Euro offer ... since 100 for kb, mouse + builtin module is a decent deal. As for the need for the wired kb + mouse... yes, I've mentioned that twice now in the above (for current machines). But is that *definitely* the case for the new iMac ... nobody has one yet (maybe apple can ship it already paired!)

DaBeav · Sep 9, 2004, 03:45 PM

It's available on the US page. It's not under the Bluetooth Module drop-down, it's under Apple Keyboard & Mouse instead. It's only $99, so if even if you're only going to use the keyboard (and get a different BT mouse with multiple buttons and scrollwheel) it's still cheaper then getting them separately.

PEHowland · Sep 9, 2004, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by PeterKG:
I don't see this bundle offered at Apple USA in the list of options while purchasing an iMac. Perhaps it's only a Euro offered bundle? Plus, you still need a wired keyboard to pair the BT keyboard.

I see it offered on the www.apple.com store. $99 for the BT keyboard/mouse option.

megasad · 05:23 PM

Originally posted by PeterKG:
BTO means they are installing the BT module only. They ARE NOT substituting the wired keyboard and mouse. You have to purchase them seperately. Without the wired keyboard, you can't pair the BT keyboard with the iMac.

Seems to me that what's going on is that the iMac and Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse are already paired when take them out of the box, but that if you format the hard drive and then try to install OS X, you'll need a wired keyboard and mouse. Just a feeling, but if anyone who has recently bought a BTO eMac or PowerMac could test it out, then we'd know. Otherwise I'll just wait until I buy one of my own.

Silas · Sep 9, 2004, 05:33 PM

When I ordered my iMac G5 with the bluetooth bundle, I asked about whether the wired keyboard and mouse is included. I was told that a wired keyboard and mouse were not included when you order this option and that I would only be getting the BT keyboard and mouse. I assumed they had worked out the problems of needing a wired keyboard to set up, so I didn't ask why others have received both wired and BT keyboard/mouse. So, I do not know if megasad is correct on whether you would need a wired keyboard if OS X is reinstalled.

PeterKG · Sep 9, 2004, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by DaBeav:
It's available on the US page. It's not under the Bluetooth Module drop-down, it's under Apple Keyboard & Mouse instead. It's only $99, so if even if you're only going to use the keyboard (and get a different BT mouse with multiple buttons and scrollwheel) it's still cheaper then getting them separately.

Thanks DaBeav!

I did not think of looking there. I still wonder how you pair the keyboard. I know with my Powerbook, I'm constantly having to pair my BT keyboard. I also have to when I wipe my drive, or reformat. If anyone knows the answer to this, let us know.

DaBeav · Sep 9, 2004, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by PeterKG:
I did not think of looking there. I still wonder how you pair the keyboard. I know with my Powerbook, I'm constantly having to pair my BT keyboard. I also have to when I wipe my drive, or reformat. If anyone knows the answer to this, let us know.

Do you have to pair it during normal use, or is it after waking from sleep, rebooting, etc.? The PB may be shutting down BT to conserve energy.

After you wipe and reformat, BT gets installed again, so it would make sense that it would need to be paired again.

pantalaimon · Sep 9, 2004, 07:18 PM

So apple are using stock geforce in the G5 Power Mac that won't run tiger well?! I find that hard to believe.

I've been having difficultly deciding on wether to purchase the new G5 imac which is why i've been on macnn over the last few days. This is what I think now:

1. If you don't want to play the latest 3D games the geforce will be fine for light gaming and will run Tiger perfectly well.

2. The G5 imac for graphic design applications will have massively improved performace over my 1GHz G4 imac... which is the main reason i'll be buying it. I don't do 3D work and won't be for a long while.

3. As a pro graphic design computer the 17" imac 1.8GHz G5 is PERFECT,

Anyway after a few days of trying to figure out wether the GPU is really such a big deal like its made out to be on here i've decided it isn't really such a big deal after all... for the majority of people. Whilst I do agree that there shoud definately be a BTO option, I don't find it a drawback 'at all' for my needs in a G5 imac.

I'll probably be putting an order in as soon as people start getting the G5 imacs and giving feedback after actually using them, if all is well i'll order.

dvh · Sep 9, 2004, 09:30 PM

The way I read it when ordering was that "Apple offers a standard wired Apple Keyboard and Mouse with all iMac G5 models" All means all doesn't it? I am still expecting to receive both the wired and bluetooth keyboard & mouse. For example the iMac G5 supports "target disk mode" which I expect I'll use periodically. No way to get there with only a bluetooth keyboard.

BTW got a Oct 5 delivery date for the BTO 20" I ordered. We'll see...

klinux · Sep 10, 2004, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by pantalaimon:
So apple are using stock geforce in the G5 Power Mac that won't run tiger well?! I find that hard to believe.

What's so hard to believe? Apple also put a 80GB HD and 256MB RAM as default - you think that will run tiger well?

So sad. The great G5, a dualie no less, is surrounded by such a weak cast. It's like a Ferrari with a 14" wheel but I digress.

DaBeav · Sep 10, 2004, 01:40 AM

At least with the G5 tower, you can upgrade to the 9600XT for only $50, or replace the video card at a later date.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 10, 2004, 02:22 AM

The bluetooth module resides on the USB bus. It could be assumed that the keyboard would offer the same functionality as a USB keyboard before the OS & drivers are loaded. Which is to say, you don't need a wired keyboard for any purpose at all. Support for the bluetooth keyboard/mouse is provided independent of the OS - at the firmware/hardware level.

turtle777 · Sep 10, 2004, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by pantalaimon:
GPU considerations

Wrong thread, pal !

-t

Jan Van Boghout · Sep 10, 2004, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
The bluetooth module resides on the USB bus. It could be assumed that the keyboard would offer the same functionality as a USB keyboard before the OS & drivers are loaded. Which is to say, you don't need a wired keyboard for any purpose at all. Support for the bluetooth keyboard/mouse is provided independent of the OS - at the firmware/hardware level.

The only problem here is that traditionally, Bluetooth devices had to be paired to prevent problems with multiple host computers being in proximity. Unless Apple is counting on just one Bluetooth enabled Mac in proximity (unlikely), I'm not sure how they would have solved the problem.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 10, 2004, 12:36 PM

hmm.

dvh · Sep 10, 2004, 03:37 PM

I checked on my order with Apple customer service. They confirmed that if you order the bluetooth module/keyboard/mouse bundle ($99) you do not receive the wired kbd & mouse - it's one or the other. This is the same story as someone posted earlier so that should confirm it.

klinux · Sep 10, 2004, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Support for the bluetooth keyboard/mouse is provided independent of the OS - at the firmware/hardware level.

Are you sure about that? BT is always at the software level which is why there is a number of stack/version/paring problems with BT as a whole as opposed to, say, a PS2 keyboard in the PC world which is definitely independent of any OS i.e BIOS level.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 10, 2004, 11:17 PM

I'm mostly speculating - but there shouldn't be any need whatsoever for a wired keyboard. USB keyboards are supported during POST and while selecting firmware options, without the need for an OS. Bluetooth keyboards *need* to have the same functionality - and likely do.

or maybe I'm just wrong.