[bmedina]

It's good to see that MacNN actually listens to its readers. Just days after several people called for wlonh to be removed as the moderator of the NS 6.0 forum, John is now the new moderator. Personally, I was getting very tired of wlonh constantly turning every vaguely Netscape 6.0-positive thread into a flame war. Isn't it the moderators' job to *facilitate* discussion, not impede it?

[This message has been edited by bmedina (edited 08-09-2000).]

[wlonh]

yet more UN-Mac-like behavior:

"Netscape/Mozilla folder restriction? Andrew Thompson claims (although we have not yet confirmed) that with Netscape 6 pr2 or Mozilla M17, if you use the installer to install Netscape 6 PR2 or Mozilla M17 you can't move or rename the folder its in, otherwise it locks up with a plain white screen on startup. There are two workarounds: 1) don't move or rename the folder; Download a non-installer based M17."

taken from macfixit today...

(luv ya too, bud!)

[MacOS761]

Hey, make sure you disagree when appropriate, but don't ruin stuff for everyone else (I'm speaking to everyone, in general, always ) Speak your mind, but not too much... you want to have some left for the future

------------------
We're supposed to sing about piraty things!

[wlonh]

hey all i have is leftovers... whaddaya, kiddin' me?!?

[Anthony the PC lover]

Hey you MacNNers...listen up!

wlonh is by far the greatest Administrator, Moderator, Member, U.S. Citizen, and New Yorker to ever have grazed the forums of MacNN. Everything he has ever said and everything he has ever done in his posts has ALWAYS BEEN RIGHT; whether or not he said it in jest, seriousness, sarcasm, anger, or even suggestively. Throughout the year, I have seen countless moderator polls brought up in this site, and in EVERY SINGLE one, Lon was voted the best Moderator that ever lived. He is not only our Teacher, Educator, Supporter, and Brother, but he is also our Friend.

No staff member of MacNN has ever been so passionately involved in his work as Lon has, and none ever will. You guys dont realize how great this man is, and he is here to make your lives as a Mac-lover easier. Regardless of his views on any subject...Netscape, Macs, Politics...he ALWAYS adheres to the facts. His knowledge is his power, and you ruffians stand to lose nothing by sitting back and hearing him out.

You will only grow smarter as a result.

[MacOS761]

Well! I've been put in my place ( )

------------------
We're supposed to sing about piraty things!

[wlonh]

and to think, Anthony, how VERY wrong i was about you once upon a time... i am ashamed to think of it...

but that time is passed, and i apologized more than once, i think you know...

and now you make me blush, you are beyond a doubt the best and nicest PC Lover i have ever known!

and i will say it again, you are so good-natured it is impossible for me to do anything but accept you as a valued member of our fora... regardless of what anyone may think or say.

i sure as hell hope your PC never gives you any grief whatsoever, and i have never wished that for anyone using a PC, period.

(and to any other PC users out there: relax, don't shoot me)

[roders]

I second what Anthony the PC luurver's got to say about Mr Wlonh, very well put mate.
Wlonh's invaluable, & these forum's would not be what they are without him.

[brock76]

I agree with Anthony as well. Lon is a great assest to these boards. Besides, who else would of took the effort to start Team MacNN.

but seriously, Lon has help me in everyone of my mac problems so far.....now back to working out this dang WinServer Proxy BullSh*t at the company. I HATE Windows stuff!! IE is the exception. hehe

Go Lon go!!

2�

brock

I disagree with the notion that wlonh deserves our undiluted praise. I have noticed across several discussions the presence of several comments made by this moderator which were either off the point, insulting to the macintosh community, or just plain wrong. One of my responses to an insulting comment by wlonh is viewable in the Quicktime forum in the topic about Quicktime 5's delay.

[Anthony the PC lover]

Dispose of the non-believer! Infidel!!!

[MacOS761]

Howard, you sound like you're from Apple Legal or something... lon was making a joke. (we do that from time to time in these fora) I appreciate your dedication to the platform, but his comments will not bring down the value of your stock, so perhaps you should lighten up a bit.

------------------
We're supposed to sing about piraty things!

[slboett]

Lon is, among other things, opinionated, honest, helpful and a great asset to the forums. I don't always agree with him, and we got "into it" a few times, but that's what thinking adults do sometimes. We are now friends and have a mutual respect for one another.
I spent untold hours on Apple's forums and eventually quit. Why? Because of the censorship of the moderators. We can, within reason, be vocal here - if you don't like someone's "opinions", fine - pose a counterpoint. If someone's advice/info is wrong, kindly point them to the light. We've all been wrong at times and most of us have bad days like any human. I have been hasty in some responses and have been politely (OK, not always) scolded for my behavior.
If I want to be treated like a child, I won't be here. If I want to discuss/debate and flat-out argue a Mac-related point, I'll be here. I for one think Moderators and Admins should be able to post their opinions as well. What rewards would taking on those jobs be if they had to keep quiet? If you love Netscape 6 and Lon hates it, so friggin' what? Post why you like it and continue. Enough already.

Scott

[This message has been edited by slboett (edited 08-11-2000).]

Why was Ca$h's post deleted? Criticism and praise are two sides of the same coin. If you let him back in, you should let him speak his mind.

Yes, wlonh has at times been helpful, funny, witty, insightful�just an all around decent guy. At other times he has acted immoderatly. Absolutly no problem with that except for the fact that he is a moderator and an admin.

If he wants to flame, bait, or argue, fine. He is just participating in the forums like anyone else. It's cool that he can get down and dirty and run the forums at the same time. But when the argument is not going his way, he shouldn't fall back upon his authority as an admin. and a moderator to bail his a** out. Such scrub-like behavior is unbecoming, and unworthy of respect.

[wlonh]

i assure you i did not delete that post from that unmentionable person

and i will thank you to note that all former Admins that were NOT on the MacNN payroll have been demoted to Moderator status, happy?

i am no one's drone and will always call them as i see them... i have every right to speak my mind and i have not signed that right away though it may of course be taken away by MacNN as they see fit. NO ONE but me determines how i shall speak or behave, immoderate or not! the colonial Connecticut flag said it best: "DON'T TREAD ON ME"

i get accused of all manner of BS and it is ALWAYS unwarranted. if i offend anyone, then that is just too bad, i know where my heart is and it is in the right place.

PERIOD, and end of story.

[yoyo52]

So here's a syllogism, a coda after the period:

1) wlonh is the best moderator on MacNN;

2) MacNN is the best Mac forum on the web;

3) Therefore wlonh is the best moderator on the web.

Not exactly kosher in form, but true in sense.

One more coda:

A sense of humor goes a long way in life.

[Anthony the PC lover]

I once was lost,
but now I'm found;
was blind,
but now I see.
wlonh o wlonh,
of you I'm fond;
you're smart,
so please teach me.

[wlonh]

damn, Anthony... i mean, really... my face is a deep crimson...



red: The hue of the long-wave end of the visible spectrum, evoked in the human observer by radiant energy with wavelengths of approximately 630 to 750 nanometers; any of a group of colors that may vary in lightness and saturation and whose hue resembles that of blood; one of the additive or light primaries; one of the psychological primary hues. but you knew that.

Hey! ever notice how the sharks move in in a feeding frenzy when there's a bit of blood in the water? saw a bit of TeeVee the other night and a 'shark expert' explained how to deal with a Great White: face it down and swim AT the damn thing! i swear he said it, and then there was shown some footage of him doing just that! he used no special cage and no body armor, but did have a stick and not a bangstick either! the Great White moved on, and the 'shark expert' explained that sharks are basically cowards... hmmm!



this true tale of the 'shark expert' is surely allegorical and is not intended to be nor should it be construed to be meaning that i will do anything but face down any and all lies and vile attacks made against me by a certain individual who shall not be mentioned by name. this does not mean that i will take any proactive steps in countering vile and abusive attacks upon me made by this individual, but rather i will react appropriately in my defense. period. i fear no cowards, online or otherwise. i am well past the age of majority and am well old enough to be the father of most of the people on this forum. i own my own business which i operate from my home (for the most part) in a tough field of business endeavors here in NYC. whatever else anyone may think of me, i have no reason whatever to lie. am i somewhat eccentric and quite opinionated, etc.? absolutely, and i am proud of it.

i will thank you all to consider that this is the complete and unvarnished truth, and to those who are good members of the fora, i wish you all the very best.

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-12-2000).]

[mac freak]

guess I'll have to go swimming with the sharks now...

Dude, you should step down from your position as moderator. The more of your mind that you reveal with each post, the more obvious it is how lacking you are in terms of the judgement and discretion needed to fufill those responsiblities. Whatever legitimacy you once held has been undermined by your own actions.

What kind of place is this where a moderator cannot be relied upon to act with proper discretion both openly as well as behind the scenes?

[wlonh]

bluesea, i have never contacted that unmentionable person directly, online or offline ("behind the scenes", as you say)... never have i ever had anything to do with him, not anywhere at anytime and not in any way whatsoever other than here on these fora... i have never emailed him, never never never... he has done nothing but lie in this regard.

every one of the principals (meaning owners, bosses, administrators, whatever you want to call them) of MacNN knows me, i have met them personally and face to face... i have been on these fora for a long time and not just as a moderator as i was a member here before becoming a moderator... these good people, the prinicipals of MacNN know good and well that this person whom i will not mention has lied repeatedly about me, and they have contacted him directly by phone and other means and yet this child persists in his attacks and lies regarding myself.

this is the unvarnished truth, and i suggest that you (and anyone else who thinks otherwise) have no clue what has really transpired here as regards this person whom i will not mention by name. everyone knows his name by now. it is a shame that anyone would believe him and his lies. i can not state it strongly enough, there is no bloody way in hell i would compromise my privacy by contacting this person in any way whatever other than on these fora, he is well-known to abuse me and others on these fora... would you allow a mad dog or even a rude and boorish person into your home? not i, no way in hell i would allow this person to have my email address or any other info even remotely resembling private and personal info about myself and and thereby allowing him a way in which to contact me in any way whatever other than on these fora...

i wish you well, and hope that you can see the truth when it is presented to you.

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-14-2000).]

[Evangellydonut]

I'm far from being the most experienced in life, but I've had A LOT of experience when it comes to dealing with people online...and I learned it the hard way. I might as well mention that I have a fun online relationship as well, just for kicks.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is, I advice all of you to stay clear of this whole mess and not side with anyone. Notice none of the admins came out and made clear of their position, or at least I haven't noticed any, maybe someone can point me to a thread. Whatever's said is behind closed doors regarding this, and thus all my opinions on the character/personality remains undisclosed and skeptical of either party. I've admined many chat/hotline servers myself, and knows how painful of a job it is to admin online places where people can be extordinarily immature. On the other hand, I've also seen places with bad admins and have "hired" a few myself and regretted it.
Regardless, only few truely knows the entire story, and are enacting appropriately, hopefully, and we should just leave it at that.

While being nutral, I also reserve my rights to form an opinion. 'nough said.

[ThinkInsane]

What the **** is this? I go on vaction and come back to find this garbage going on? 15 posts and you're gonna start telling us who should and shouldn't be moderating forums? Let me tell you something, my first post here was an absolutly stupid question about my iMac. Wlonh answered it right away, and didn't make me feel like a retard for asking it. I have seen HUNDREDS of posts where he has done the exact same thing for other users. And as far as this being ca$h related? He's an asshoIe by his own admission. I like him, but he does wear on my nerves at times, and I have told him so. I don't always agree with Lon, but I respect his opinions because he has earned that respect. I didn't think it necessary ca$h be banned, but that is my OPINION and I respect the descion made by the powers that be. It's their gig, and we are just along for the ride.

So, Lon thinks Netscape 6 is crap. Well, sorry sports fan, but it is. I downloaded it and it took about a week or so for excite to load (on a T1). There shouldn't even be a Netscape forum. I would rather see an iCab forum here. At least that is a browser that you can use.

You want some one booted from the lofty position of moderator? Well, get a couple of months under your belt here, and maybe you might just figure out which ones are helpful, and which aren't. I'll tell you right now, you are looking to hurt the wrong guy.

[This message has been edited by ThinkInsane (edited 08-16-2000).]

[CaseCom]

Okay, it's "my two cents" time...

Any way you slice it, these are MacNN's fora, and they decide what tone and character these forums have. If I don't like it, I can go somewhere else.

I'm on Apple's forums quite a bit, and I like them, but I've also come to like (after some initial trepidation, I admit) the freewheeling-ness of these fora. I like that the moderators jump in and mix it up with everyone else.

Far be it from me to sit in judgment of anyone, but I will say this: Have there been times when a moderator has let fly with both barrels when I would have held my tongue? Sure. Does that bother me all that much? No. Vive la difference.

I have never found a moderator or admin to be offensive. If they were, I'd be outta here. The teasing that does go on is well-intentioned.

[Cipher13]

I haven't read any of the posts here fully, bar the first few, but lets end this crap (sorry for anything I am just repeating).
If you have a problem with the moderators here, who do a great job selflessly to uphold these fora, then take a hike.
We do not want to hear it. Funny that so few people complain about how this place is run... that is because it is run VERY WELL.
So instead of complaining about something that (hopefully) won't change, just leave.
So as to not repeat matters which I am sure have already been brought up, I won't drone on about how little right you have as such a newcomer to complain about how this world revolves, or about the fact that everyones opinions are equal, no more no less (which I have stressed several times in other threads).
Stop complaining and get used to it - or leave.
Sorry if this seems a little overreactive - its late and I'm tired.

Cipher13

[MacOS761]

As one of my fave groups once said in a song... "Moderation is a truly wise ideal." www.thechoir.net
How true.

------------------
We're supposed to sing about piraty things!

[garrettnelson]

there is only one discrepancy here; some of the things that were viewed as delete-worthy by wlonh he certainly used himself in some instances. DO NOT get me wrong�Lon is a great mod�but I think he should go a little easy on some of the members whose ideas don't fit directly in with his. Take Dragonlance�he was an ardent supporter of PCs. So what. You didn't need to have a hissy-fit over it. All I'm suggesting is that you not be so hard on other people if you want to be opinionated yourself. I am an admin at my own BB and I've deleted a grand total of 1 post. Just let it be there. People are going to think you're abusing your power if you run everyone through who disses you.

Please dont' hurt me�it's only my opinion and if it scares you so much, then there really is something wrong with this BB.

[wlonh]

wrongola bud... NOT "some people", only two people here, two... solamente dos, amigo, you mentioned one... and he 'gets it deleted' if he insults in a crude way as he has and as will anyone who does, period!
(there are some 8,000+ members of the fora, btw!)

guess what? now he doesn't crassly insult or call someone out of their name... imagine that! wonder why? acid wit and biting satire are another thing entirely, when done with humor (however bitter) and a bit o' class...

thanks for the post...

oh, and to everyone who was nice to me in this thread: what a nice welcome home to NYC (home from a rotten roadtrip to bury my uncle in KC, MO) it was to read your posts, thanks! garrettnelson's excepted... and to you i say: HELL yes i can be rude and nasty though it gives me no pleasure really, i will defend myself, i will not turn the other cheek, and in my real world (non-cyber, that is) i swear like a drunken sailor... and right to people's faces if necessary or if i feel like it... i have been accused of many things by people (not friends) who really know me and many are true, but i am not a coward who waits until the early morning hours to post online lies and filth about people... which is, by the way, against the law... it's called libel.





[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-17-2000).]

great...... he resorts to threatening me for my opinions. go figure

[tonymac]

Whether or not Ca$h's post gets deleted, it's pretty obvious that the IM conversation at the link is faked. That just doesn't sound like wlonh, and "TMdogg18" never explicitly says he's wlonh, just agrees when asked. This along with the spam he sent to numerous forum members after being booted, is just another pathetic attempt to disrupt an antagonize an organization where he's not wanted. I just felt the need to share that for the benefit of anyone else who may follow that link.

[wlonh]

yeah, tonymac, everyone who has seen it tells me it's obviously not me... i refuse to even view that webpage... i'm sure it is pure garbage and jive... i stand by my posts in this thread ever more vehemently... and will delete all posted URL references to that page and any post that calls me by anything other than my nick or real name (must be spelled properly, too) here in this thread...


oh, and have a gander at this: http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum8/HTML/000164.html

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-17-2000).]

[DBursey]

The criticisms of wlonh�s conduct offered here are weak indeed.

While I am not here to engage in gratuitous back-slapping, I feel motivated to post my opinion on this issue. I am loathe to ponder the level of dialogue in these forums were it not for the presence of wlonh, among others. I find his posts to be intelligent, reasoned, witty and always articulate; based on facts. In contrast, I have seen many participants who resort to conjecture and personal attacks rather than present a reasoned and intelligent counterpoint when confronted with an opposing view. They do themselves no service in this regard. To carry on this way in a public forum should be an embarrassment, to say the least.

Wlonh, I trust you will carry on here and continue to speak your mind as you see fit. Your presence is certainly an asset to these forums. I appreciate the time you and the other moderators spend in helping others, and I enjoy reading your opinions (which of course is not to say I always agree!). Keep up the good work.



[This message has been edited by DBursey (edited 08-17-2000).]

[bood69]

Geez, people are on wlonh's ass again? Get a life, gang....go out and get some fresh air.....mmmmm....aaaahhh...that's better.

I have lurked in these pages for about four or five months now, and have recently begun posting. I have to say that while wlonh has shown personality, it has not been a detriment to these fora. It has been, in fact, an advancement of them. I have also read the postings of Ca$h, and found those posts to be crude, defamatory and generally disgusting.

I will agree that wlonh was bit out of sorts on Netscape 6, however. It is - junk? - but it is also the future of this product, and deserves a good airing out in an unbiased forum so we become clear to Netscape on what to change in it. Before ie becomes the only big game in town, like office.

[wlonh]

i will admit and have admitted to be wrong about many things, and i was wrong to be so vehement about netscape even though many many others share my belief as regards netscape, it should be known that i was a dedicated user of netscape until IE 4.5 and my utter dislike of netscape is due to my perception that it does not properly support Mac users (MDEF is but one small example), i can not be convinced otherwise... and when one considers the whole picture, i am surprised anyone supports netscape so dogmatically as it appears that some people do...

further, i despise MS and will not allow any MS software on my Macs other than IE 4.5.1 and IE 5... period. they happen to be the best browsers available for me and my Macs... and i like iCab very much but it does not fully support javascript and is in beta, though i have supported and recommended iCab from day one of its existence. i use IE and iCab concurrently at all times and for differing usages. netscape will not be allowed on my Macs until it can be proven worthy of it.

and i am a great deal older than most of the people here on the forums and i can be very curmudgeonly if prodded... i have little patience nor time for some things...

again, have a look: http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum8/HTML/000164.html

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 08-17-2000).]