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July 4th attacks, Y/N
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IUJHJSDHE
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Jul 2, 2002, 11:25 PM
 
Just wondering what the opinion is, you could not stop 9/11, What about now.

Do you think July 4th is an attack date?
     
Millennium
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Jul 3, 2002, 12:09 AM
 
They won't. Not because they're afraid to, but because they don't have to. Remember, the goal of terrorism is not death, but fear; death is only the means they use to achieve that. Which may make things even worse, when you think about it; they don't even care who dies, as long as they get the fear they're after. Their victim list is nothing more than "whoever happens to be at that place at the time of the attack".

And how many people are changing their usual plans, because of fear? Even the government is going draconian in ways that are both unnecessary and inappropriate.

Perhaps that's the sickest thing. As long as we're afraid, they won't attack. They feed on our fear; when you see it that way, their strikes are nothing more than a hunt, as far as they're concerned. And you don't hunt when your belly is full; that just makes you more liable to get caught by your prey.
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
daimoni
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Jul 3, 2002, 09:06 AM
 
.
( Last edited by daimoni; Apr 29, 2004 at 12:38 PM. )
.
     
Captain Big Trousers
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Jul 3, 2002, 09:23 AM
 
If I were a mad Arab I would attack you on July 3rd to screw up your WHOLE day - why start at lunchtime?
     
Ti X
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Jul 3, 2002, 10:43 AM
 
What is this crap that I can't view the results??
15" AI PowerBook
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15" PowerBook 512MB RAM
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KaptainKaya
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Jul 3, 2002, 10:54 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Captain Big Trousers:
<strong>If I were a mad Arab I would attack you on July 3rd to screw up your WHOLE day - why start at lunchtime?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Or wait til the 5th. They aren't that stupid to do it on a day people expect.
     
SimeyTheLimey
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Jul 3, 2002, 11:04 AM
 
Just after Sept 11th, people were asking why the 3d plane struck the Pentagon rather than the US Capitol. Most Americans realize that the Pentagon is just an office building. Losing the Capitol would have been the loss of a symbol of much greater importance to Americans than an office full of beaurocrats.

I thought that those people missed the point that the people who chose the targets were not Americans. What they were aiming to strike was the symbol that meant the most to the terrorists. What the victims felt about the target was irrelevant.

I think the same thing applies to July 4th. I doubt that Independence day has the same emotional importance to a non-American terrorist as it does for an American. I'd be much more worried about dates like, say, the anniversary of US troops first deploying to Saudi Arabia than I am about the 4th of July.

Of course, I could be wrong. But we will know soon enough.
     
v0id7
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Jul 3, 2002, 11:06 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by KaptainKaya:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Captain Big Trousers:
<strong>If I were a mad Arab I would attack you on July 3rd to screw up your WHOLE day - why start at lunchtime?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Or wait til the 5th. They aren't that stupid to do it on a day people expect.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">what if we all expact that...i did
_______void_______
     
rjenkinson
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Jul 3, 2002, 11:11 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Millennium:
<strong>They won't. Not because they're afraid to, but because they don't have to. Remember, the goal of terrorism is not death, but fear; death is only the means they use to achieve that. Which may make things even worse, when you think about it; they don't even care who dies, as long as they get the fear they're after. Their victim list is nothing more than "whoever happens to be at that place at the time of the attack".

...

Perhaps that's the sickest thing. As long as we're afraid, they won't attack.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">this strikes me as a little too simple. surely terrorism is as much about death as it is about fear. terrorists will attack if they have the opportunity because death creates fear.

-r.
     
derbs
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Jul 3, 2002, 11:23 AM
 
why cant we see the results before voting stops??

freakin' control freaks...

BTW Millenium, i think your theory is a bit simplistic as well, however it contained some nice rhetorical imagery. July 4th is an obvious date, the most important in the American calendar (?), however if a next attack is planned it may be when we all least expect.

At the end of the day, no-one knows... not even your hundred-billion dollar secret services have a clue...
     
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Jul 3, 2002, 11:25 AM
 
I think the next attack on Americans will be in a foreign country. The USA has become a very difficult place to attack in the past year.
To remind the Americans that they are vulnerable outside their own country, an attack in a foreign country would be easiest .

But I wouldn't be surprised if the next attack would be on British or French citizens. There have been many arrests of suspected terrorists in Europe lately.
T E K N O
     
MikeM32
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Jul 3, 2002, 04:51 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by �:
I think the next attack on Americans will be in a foreign country. The USA has become a very difficult place to attack in the past year.
To remind the Americans that they are vulnerable outside their own country, an attack in a foreign country would be easiest .

But I wouldn't be surprised if the next attack would be on British or French citizens. There have been many arrests of suspected terrorists in Europe lately.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">BINGO we have a winner!!! (sort of anyway) Let's remember that post a while back about the terrorists also planning on hitting Big Ben in England. If you think it can't and won't happen outside the U.S. think again. Of course the responses from most of the Europeans in that thread was "Oh it could never happen here, but the USA is different".

That considerred, the only part of your post I'd change would be about attacking Americans in foriegn countries. If they'd fly a plane into Big Ben, I don't see how that would have a thing to do with attacking Americans since we have no military base there that I'm aware of.

I have a pretty strong feeling they'll be focusing attentions on other countries they deem as thier enemies next time.

Mike
     
undotwa
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Jul 3, 2002, 10:13 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by MikeM32:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by �:
I think the next attack on Americans will be in a foreign country. The USA has become a very difficult place to attack in the past year.
To remind the Americans that they are vulnerable outside their own country, an attack in a foreign country would be easiest .

But I wouldn't be surprised if the next attack would be on British or French citizens. There have been many arrests of suspected terrorists in Europe lately.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">BINGO we have a winner!!! (sort of anyway) Let's remember that post a while back about the terrorists also planning on hitting Big Ben in England. If you think it can't and won't happen outside the U.S. think again. Of course the responses from most of the Europeans in that thread was "Oh it could never happen here, but the USA is different".

That considerred, the only part of your post I'd change would be about attacking Americans in foriegn countries. If they'd fly a plane into Big Ben, I don't see how that would have a thing to do with attacking Americans since we have no military base there that I'm aware of.

I have a pretty strong feeling they'll be focusing attentions on other countries they deem as thier enemies next time.

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Terrorism is happening all the time in Europe. Car bombs in Germany, Spain, Israel (not exactly Europe, but heh). Not to mention Italy.

Americans: Don't think you're in this alone.
In vino veritas.
     
Captain Big Trousers
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Jul 3, 2002, 11:19 PM
 
There's a lot of propaganda around about the Terrorists vs. Civilization. It's all bull****. This is about US troops in Saudi Arabia (as far as OBL is concerned), not some global struggle about Good vs. Evil. Of course OBL is wrong IMHO � the "whole" problem is US imperialism in general, not the "western world that we know and love". It's just that OBL happens to "care" about Saudi Arabia. I don't think he cares how badly they screw anyone else (even Afghanistan).

<a href="http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/02/1023864733062.html" target="_blank">http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/02/1023864733062.html</a>

Also, when you fight you find a weak spot and keep hitting it. The US wouldn't give a rat's arse about attacks on the English, the French or anyone else. Blowing up Big Ben would get reported in the US right after a story about Julia Roberts latest boyfriend. "Who is Big Ben and what did he do?" a lot of Americans would ask. Okay, that's over the top but if you want to hurt the US you hit the US. Confirming the US' allies resolve would only work against the terrorists. As it is, the UK and Oz are uncomfortable about having troops in Afghanistan. Why change that?

Therefore I think only the US will be attacked. Believing every western country is a potential target is wishful thinking on the US' part and propaganda to distract us from the real issue. The fact that the UK and Oz are willing to play along has more to do with defence contracts than any real threat. We want Star Wars protection too, so we roll out our SAS troops and make a show of it.

<a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020703/ap_on_re_us/moussaoui_motions_2&printer=1" target="_blank">http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020703/ap_on_re_us/moussaoui_motions_2&printer=1</a>

^^ Interesting. FWIW I still think the US intelligence agencies let Sept 11th happen. I don't think Moussaoui gets CNN in his cell. Strange that he would come up with the same "X-Files" conspiracy theory (that some of us share) from his solitary confinement cell. I suppose he knows more about it than I do though.

Roll up! Roll up! Keep your eyes on the pea, ladies and gentlemen� only three walnut shells � how far could one pea get?

Suckers.
     
rampant
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Jul 3, 2002, 11:52 PM
 
I don't give a **** what happens as long as it doesn't happen to me.
     
MikeM32
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Jul 3, 2002, 11:57 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by rampant:
I don't give a **** what happens as long as it doesn't happen to me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Or until it happens to you? <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" />

Mike
     
rampant
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Jul 4, 2002, 02:11 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by MikeM32:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by rampant:
I don't give a **** what happens as long as it doesn't happen to me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Or until it happens to you? <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" />

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">No, as long as it doesn't. <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" />
     
MikeM32
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Jul 4, 2002, 03:00 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by rampant:
No, as long as it doesn't. <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">So essentially rather than preventing something from happening you'd just wait for it to happen? If you're dead you won't "care" one way or another, by then it's too late. Or to coin the clich� phrase; "by then the terrorists have already won".

I'd rather kill the person that breaks into my home rather than waiting for them to shoot me.

Mike
     
undotwa
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Jul 4, 2002, 03:25 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Captain Big Trousers:
<strong>There's a lot of propaganda around about the Terrorists vs. Civilization. It's all bull****. This is about US troops in Saudi Arabia (as far as OBL is concerned), not some global struggle about Good vs. Evil. Of course OBL is wrong IMHO � the "whole" problem is US imperialism in general, not the "western world that we know and love". It's just that OBL happens to "care" about Saudi Arabia. I don't think he cares how badly they screw anyone else (even Afghanistan).

<a href="http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/02/1023864733062.html" target="_blank">http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/02/1023864733062.html</a>

Also, when you fight you find a weak spot and keep hitting it. The US wouldn't give a rat's arse about attacks on the English, the French or anyone else. Blowing up Big Ben would get reported in the US right after a story about Julia Roberts latest boyfriend. "Who is Big Ben and what did he do?" a lot of Americans would ask. Okay, that's over the top but if you want to hurt the US you hit the US. Confirming the US' allies resolve would only work against the terrorists. As it is, the UK and Oz are uncomfortable about having troops in Afghanistan. Why change that?

Therefore I think only the US will be attacked. Believing every western country is a potential target is wishful thinking on the US' part and propaganda to distract us from the real issue. The fact that the UK and Oz are willing to play along has more to do with defence contracts than any real threat. We want Star Wars protection too, so we roll out our SAS troops and make a show of it.

<a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020703/ap_on_re_us/moussaoui_motions_2&printer=1" target="_blank">http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020703/ap_on_re_us/mou ssaoui_motions_2&printer=1</a>

^^ Interesting. FWIW I still think the US intelligence agencies let Sept 11th happen. I don't think Moussaoui gets CNN in his cell. Strange that he would come up with the same "X-Files" conspiracy theory (that some of us share) from his solitary confinement cell. I suppose he knows more about it than I do though.

Roll up! Roll up! Keep your eyes on the pea, ladies and gentlemen� only three walnut shells � how far could one pea get?

Suckers.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Well as far as Osama Bin Laden is concerned, I think he was a former Royal (they kicked him out) of Saudi Arabia. So he is going all schitzo at the US.

But Al-Quaida is not the only organization supporting terrorism, heaps of other organizations which probably aren't all schitzo about the US, are 'fighting' their own cause for totally different reasons.
In vino veritas.
     
Captain Big Trousers
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Jul 4, 2002, 03:35 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by undotwa:
But Al-Quaida is not the only organization supporting terrorism, heaps of other organizations which probably aren't all schitzo about the US, are 'fighting' their own cause for totally different reasons.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">And the US supports many of them. Your point is...?

We are talking here about the only kind of terrorism the US cares about aren't we? I mean, the kind that affects them.

How many people have been killed by US funded IRA bombs in London? Didn't bother them too much then, did it?
     
rampant
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Jul 4, 2002, 04:02 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by MikeM32:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by rampant:
No, as long as it doesn't. <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">So essentially rather than preventing something from happening you'd just wait for it to happen? If you're dead you won't "care" one way or another, by then it's too late. Or to coin the clich� phrase; "by then the terrorists have already won".

I'd rather kill the person that breaks into my home rather than waiting for them to shoot me.

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Well... ok, take the amout you thought I cared about the attacks, divide that by two, and you get how much I care. Then your post is more correct. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
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Jul 4, 2002, 08:52 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by �:
<strong>I think the next attack on Americans will be in a foreign country. The USA has become a very difficult place to attack in the past year.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Well, that's debatable. According to an article I read the other day Airport Security has not improved much (can't find the link right now). They could ofcourse have been referring to the crappy WEP encryption used by wireless LANs
     
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Jul 4, 2002, 10:34 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by MikeM32:
<strong>[I'd rather kill the person that breaks into my home rather than waiting for them to shoot me.

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Sadly the USA is one of the few places on Earth where you can defend youself and not be charged with murder. Many of the sheep would disagree with you, and claim that better policing is the answer. Well fortunateley the USA is not a police state. Long live America!
     
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Jul 4, 2002, 10:56 AM
 
It would not be worth any effort to attack America, let America keep attacking itself. The goal of terrorism is to provide "terror" hence the name (what are the odds of that).

As long as a majority of Americans are actively working to cause more terror and fears among themselves, and we are all accusing each other, the terrorists can sit back while Americans do the terrorism.

It wouldn't make sense to waste another terrorist. Just wait until this calms down in a few years.
     
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Jul 4, 2002, 11:00 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by nana2:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by MikeM32:
<strong>[I'd rather kill the person that breaks into my home rather than waiting for them to shoot me.

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Sadly the USA is one of the few places on Earth where you can defend youself and not be charged with murder.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Unless you're black or poor.

If you think the world envies your insanely high homicide rates, you're delusional.
     
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Jul 4, 2002, 01:33 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by hushmail:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by nana2:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by MikeM32:
<strong>[I'd rather kill the person that breaks into my home rather than waiting for them to shoot me.

Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Sadly the USA is one of the few places on Earth where you can defend youself and not be charged with murder.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Unless you're black or poor.

If you think the world envies your insanely high homicide rates, you're delusional.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">It ain't homicide in the US unless your a minority. Then it's first degree. Otherwise, it's self defense.... I think it's basically the same in Europe as well.
     
hushmail
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Jul 4, 2002, 01:54 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by macvillage.net:
<strong>I think it's basically the same in Europe as well.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Not the homocide rates, and we'd like to keep it that way.
     
thread D railer
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Jul 4, 2002, 06:47 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Sadly the USA is one of the few places on Earth where you can defend youself and not be charged with murder.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Don't you mean "Gladly" the USA is one of the few places on Earth where you can defend yourself and not be charged with murder?

I'd certainly hope that's what you meant, otherwise what you're suggesting is that if I break into your home with intent to kill you and your whole family, that you basically have no rights except to be killed. Furthermore you'd be implying that should you shoot and kill me in self defense and to defend your family that you'd be the one who was "wrong". I'm sincerely hoping that's not what you meant. If that is what you meant then feel free to post your address and I'm sure someone will forward it to the most disgusting low-lifes on the planet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Well... ok, take the amout you thought I cared about the attacks, divide that by two, and you get how much I care. Then your post is more correct.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I don't think that's the point Mike was trying to make. You basically said you don't care until it happens to you. Mike was trying to say that by that time it would be too f**king late to care because you'd be dead. Get your head out of your @$$ man. Your kind of complacency is why these terrorists can get away with crap like 9/11 in the first place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Not the homocide rates, and we'd like to keep it that way.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Not quite, the homocide rates are basically the same in Europe at least in proportion to the USA. But I welcome some non biased facts if you think you can provide them.
     
RodUK
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Jul 4, 2002, 07:05 PM
 
To answer the original question, I don't think July 4th will be another attack date as its far too obvious. If you're half expecting it, it won't have as much impact as if it comes out of the blue. If another attack does come, be it next week, next month or next year, I expect it will be on another ordinary day, as I guess September 11th was before the first plane struck.
     
hushmail
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Jul 4, 2002, 07:11 PM
 
I see that you just signed up for a MacNN account. Could you please learn how to quote properly? From your post, nobody can see who you're responding to without scrolling up to find the relevant posts. Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by thread D railer:
<strong>Don't you mean "Gladly" the USA is one of the few places on Earth where you can defend yourself and not be charged with murder?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I didn't write that, but I think you're misunderstanding it. Try reading it this way: "Sadly the USA is one of the few places on Earth where you can defend youself and not be charged with murder."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><strong>Not quite, the homocide rates are basically the same in Europe at least in proportion to the USA. But I welcome some non biased facts if you think you can provide them.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Haha. Another moron joins the MacNN Hall of Stupidity Fame.

Article: <a href="http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0513/guns/story.html" target="_blank">Gunning For It</a>

This articled is dated May 13, 2002. This article is in TIME magazine. However, considering that you're stupid beyond belief, I'm sure you'll find some way of accusing them of being biased.

"the European Union's average homicide rate per 100,000 people in 1997-99 was 1.7, compared to 6.26 in the U.S."

(the number is slightly higher when including all European countries).

<small>[ 07-04-2002, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: hushmail ]</small>
     
macvillage.net
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Jul 4, 2002, 08:03 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by RodUK:
<strong>To answer the original question, I don't think July 4th will be another attack date as its far too obvious. If you're half expecting it, it won't have as much impact as if it comes out of the blue. If another attack does come, be it next week, next month or next year, I expect it will be on another ordinary day, as I guess September 11th was before the first plane struck.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Bingo, to bad nobody else thinks like this. They expect the 4th of July of all days.
     
Captain Big Trousers
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Jul 5, 2002, 01:22 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Captain Big Trousers:
<strong>Blowing up Big Ben would get reported in the US right after a story about Julia Roberts latest boyfriend.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Can I just take this opportunity to thank Julia Roberts for timing her wedding beautifully.
     
Mako
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Jul 5, 2002, 03:52 AM
 
Once again, time for a little truth about world crime rates:

The ICVS allows an overall measure of victimisation which is the percentage of people victimised once or more in the previous year by any of the eleven crimes covered by the survey. This prevalence measure is a simple but robust indicator of overall proneness to crime. The countries fall into three bands.
Above 24% (victim of any crime in 1999): Australia, England and Wales, the Netherlands and Sweden
20%-24%: Canada, Scotland, Denmark, Poland, Belgium, France, and USA
Under 20%: Finland, Catalonia (Spain), Switzerland, Portugal, Japan and Northern Ireland.

Burglary:
The proportion of households who had a completed or attempted burglary was highest in Australia (7%), England and Wales (5%), Canada, Denmark and Belgium (all 4%).

Anxiety about burglary:
On average, nearly a third of people felt they were likely or very likely to be burgled in the coming year. Those in Portugal (58%), Belgium, and France (about 45%) were most pessimistic. There was least concern in the Scandinavian countries, the USA, and the Netherlands (under 20% thought a burglary was likely).

Theft of personal property:
Thefts of personal property will be heterogeneous in nature, but the highest risks were in Australia, Sweden, and Poland (about 5%-6% of people were victimised).
In roughly a third of thefts, the victim was carrying what was stolen - termed 'pickpocketing'. Risks of pickpocketing were most common in Poland (4%). Risks were also comparatively high in Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Catalonia, and England and Wales (about 2%). As previous sweeps have found, risks were lowest outside Europe: in Japan, Canada, and the USA.

Contact crime:
An overall measure of contact crime was taken as robbery, assaults with force, and sexual assaults (against women only). The highest risks were in Australia, England and Wales, Canada, Scotland and Finland: over 3% were victims. This was more than double the level in USA, Belgium, Catalonia, Portugal, and Japan (all under 2%). In Japan the risk of contact crime was especially low (0.4%).

Robbery:
Robbery was comparatively uncommon in all countries. Risks were highest in 1999 in Poland (1.8%), England and Wales, and Australia (both 1.2%). By far the lowest risks were in Japan and Northern Ireland (0.1%).
On average, just over a third of victims of robbery said the offender(s) carried a weapon of some sort - in most cases a knife. There was a higher than average use of weapons in the USA, Catalonia, Scotland, and Portugal. Although not very statistically robust, the data indicate that guns were used relatively more often in Catalonia and the USA.

Sexual incidents:
Women in Sweden, Finland, Australia and England and Wales were most at risk of sexual assault. Women in Japan, Northern Ireland, Poland and Portugal were least at risk. Many of the differences in sexual assault risks across country were small. Generally, the relative level of sexual assault in different countries accorded with relative levels of offensive sexual behaviour - though there were a few differences.

Assaults and threats:
Taking all countries together, 3.5% were victims once or more of assaults or threats in 1999. Risks were highest in Australia, Scotland, England and Wales (about 6%) and Canada (5%). Risks were lowest in Japan, Portugal, (under 1%) and Catalonia (1.5%).
Offenders were known in about half the incidents overall. Men were less likely to know offenders than women. Weapons (especially knifes) were said to have been used (if only as a threat) in just under a quarter of incidents.

Trends in crime:
The picture in North America differs from that in Europe. Crime levels are lower than in 1988. In the three European countries with four ICVS measures (England and Wales, Finland, and the Netherlands), crime levels are still higher than in 1988. Compared to 1991, risks also fell more in North America than in five of the seven European countries showing falls.
Since 1995, there has been more consistent falls in property crime. Changes in violent crime are variable.

Safety on the streets:
When asked how safe they feel walking alone in their area after dark, on average just under a quarter felt very or a bit unsafe. Those in Catalonia, Australia and Poland were most anxious (about a third felt a bit or very unsafe). Next highest levels were in Portugal and England and Wales. Feelings of vulnerability were lowest in the USA and Sweden, although there were several other countries with only marginally higher figures.

Source: <a href="http://www.minjust.nl:8080/b_organ/wodc/summaries/ob187sum.htm" target="_blank">International Crime Victim Survey</a>

So basically, in Australia and much of Europe people can look forward to a much greater chance of being: mugged, house burgled, property stolen, assualted, raped, beaten up and robbed and generally more afraid to walk down their own street at night.

Awesome.
!!!!!!!
     
hushmail
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Jul 5, 2002, 08:40 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mako:
<strong>Once again, time for a little truth about world crime rates:</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">"Little truth"? Why do you say that? Has someone in this thread been spreading untruthful statements about world crime rates? AFAICS, nobody has discussed world crime rates in this thread, except for homicide rates.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><strong>So basically, in Australia and much of Europe people can look forward to a much greater chance of being: mugged, house burgled, property stolen, assualted, raped, beaten up and robbed and generally more afraid to walk down their own street at night.

Awesome.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer getting mugged instead of being killed. I don't have any problems walking down the street at night because I know that the chance of getting killed is quite low compared to other parts of the world.
     
scottiB
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Jul 5, 2002, 12:33 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I don't have any problems walking down the street at night because I know that the chance of getting killed is quite low compared to other parts of the world.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">You do realize that that statement is illogical?
I am stupidest when I try to be funny.
     
hushmail
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Jul 5, 2002, 01:56 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by scottiB:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">I don't have any problems walking down the street at night because I know that the chance of getting killed is quite low compared to other parts of the world.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">You do realize that that statement is illogical?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">If it was, I'm sure you would have provided some arguments to support your statement.

There is always the possibility of being killed. Always. Since I live in a country where the homicide rate is quite low, I don't worry at all. I have better things to do with my time than worry about things that will most likely not happen.
     
Mako
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Jul 6, 2002, 03:02 AM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by hushmail:
There is always the possibility of being killed. Always. Since I live in a country where the homicide rate is quite low, I don't worry at all. I have better things to do with my time than worry about things that will most likely not happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Yeah, you only worry about things like homicide rates in countries you don�t live in, and grossly misinterpreting statistics. (By the way, at just a casual glance on these forums, you tend to do that a lot.)

The fact of the matter is, in addition to not being mugged, robbed, raped, assaulted, burgled, etc. the overwhelming majority of Americans don�t worry all that much and often about being killed at random either.

Even the police will tell you, in most cases of homicide, the person killed knows his attacker. I would guess that with a lot of huge cities, with a lot of bad areas, and a lot of gangs and such armed with guns- these factors tend to push our homicides rate up. But again, look at the facts. People tend to kill other people they know and have a vendetta against. Armed gangsters/drug dealers and such tend to shoot each other or family members of a rival, more than they tend to kill total strangers at random.

I would imagine the risks of being killed go up dramatically living/working in dangerous areas and occupations- a bank that gets robbed a lot or a convenience store in a bad area, etc. Living with someone who is unstable and owns a weapon might not be a good idea either. But then, unlike in your dream world, the same is true virtually everywhere, despite whatever brand of rose-colored glasses someone wears.

Personally, I�d much rather live here, where the more common types of crime are less prevalent (as outlined above) and since I don�t have a lifestyle or situation that puts me in high risk of being killed, I�m really not all that worried about that either. That�s probably the reality for an overwhelming majority of Americans as well. (And by the way, I live a hop skip and a jump from some pretty violent sections of L.A.).

But by all means, go on spreading F.U.D. and making dumb statements like �If you think the world envies your insanely high homicide rates, you're delusional. �
Yeah? Well we don�t envy not having our homes broken into as often, being assaulted, raped, etc. etc. as much as many other people In the world have to put up with either.

<small>[ 07-06-2002, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Mako ]</small>
!!!!!!!
     
hushmail
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Jul 6, 2002, 07:38 PM
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mako:
<strong>Yeah, you only worry about things like homicide rates in countries you don�t live in, and grossly misinterpreting statistics.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Actually, I worry about homicide rates in countries I am considering moving to in the future.

Since I haven't offered any interpretation in this thread, I can't possibly have misinterpreted anything. The only thing I've said that can be remotely considered interpretation is that I prefer living in a country where the homicide rate is low.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><strong> (By the way, at just a casual glance on these forums, you tend to do that a lot.)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Logical fallacy witout even backing it up. Don't worry though, I respect that you take tradition seriously, especially the MacNN tradition of using logical fallacies.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><strong>But by all means, go on spreading F.U.D.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Facts aren't FUD, although you're obviously free to think so. Have you emailed TIME magazine yet and asked them to stop spreading FUD?
     
   
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