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IUJHJSDHE · Dec 11, 2002, 03:05 AM

Since OS X supports 2 button mice with scroll wheels, when do you think we will see apple making these sort of mice?

Do you think we will EVER?

wataru · 03:42 AM

Originally posted by IUJHJSDHE:
Do you think we will EVER?

Probably not. If you want one, buy one.

And this has what to do with OS X?

mitchell_pgh · Dec 11, 2002, 03:38 AM

It's sad to say, but the five button M$ mouse is VERY nice... I only use the two buttons and the scroll wheel, but the wireless option is so nice...

libraryguy · Dec 11, 2002, 04:58 AM

Well, I wish they would make a two button mouse w/scroll wheel. I know 3rd party options are all around but I want one from Apple.

Also, there is a similar poll/thread in the lounge, if anyone is interested:http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=135630

TheIceMan · Dec 11, 2002, 05:13 AM

Being a new "switcher" to the Mac, I did not understand the concept of a 1-button mouse. Now that I've been using my Mac for a few months I still don't understand why Apple didn't make a 2-button mouse. So I got myself the Logitech MX500 mouse. It's NICE! And kinda matches the look of my Titanium PB too.

Mediaman_12 · Dec 11, 2002, 05:15 AM

The problem with Apple providing a multibutton mouse is that App developers will get lazy and use the 'right click' etc. as the olnly way to access certain functions (like on Windows, e.g. the only way to open a document in the non default app is to use the right click menu). With Apple shiping a single button mouse developers can only only use the other buttons as alternative ways to get at the functions.

IUJHJSDHE · Dec 11, 2002, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by wataru:
Probably not. If you want one, buy one.

And this has what to do with OS X?

I couldnt deside if I should put it in the lounge or the os x forum.

Which one do you think I should of put it in?

IUJHJSDHE · Dec 11, 2002, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by wataru:
Probably not. If you want one, buy one.

And this has what to do with OS X?

I couldnt deside if I should put it in the lounge or the os x forum.

Which one do you think I should of put it in?

Developer · Dec 11, 2002, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I only use the two buttons and the scroll wheel, but the wireless option is so nice...

Yes, I always wanted a wireless mouse. Whenever I go to the toilet, the mouse cable is always too short.

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
Being a new "switcher" to the Mac, I did not understand the concept of a 1-button mouse.

The concept is "don't bother with thinking which of the buttons do I have to press now?" Many Window's users over-generalize and right-click anything which actually slows them down.
If you are a power user and don't have this problem, just get a multi-button mouse (as you did). If you rarely use a computer and want to click, on the Mac you just click.
And since a single button mouse is shipped by default and forces developers to make everything accessible with it, you even benefit as a user of a multi button mouse. You can fall back to the "just click" method and use the second button only in those apps you regularly use and know very well. No need to remember that certain functionality is availble by a context menu only.

And then there are ergonomic advantages of a single large button (think tendovaginitis), but nobody seems to care about that.

-Q- · Dec 11, 2002, 11:53 AM

Apple's research has shown that when a new computer user is presented with a multi-button mouse, they invariably click the wrong button trying to do something, hence Jobs' insistence on the one-button mouse. From a simplicity, ease of use function it makes sense.

And for advanced users, they can buy a mouse that suits their needs...

Maflynn · Dec 11, 2002, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by -Q-:
Apple's research has shown that when a new computer user is presented with a multi-button mouse, they invariably click the wrong button trying to do something, hence Jobs' insistence on the one-button mouse. From a simplicity, ease of use function it makes sense.

And for advanced users, they can buy a mouse that suits their needs...

But when was that 15 years ago? I'll go out on a limb and say the majority of people know which button to click to execute a program vs opening a contect window (right mouse button).

Mike

ringo · Dec 11, 2002, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by -Q-:
And for advanced users, they can buy a mouse that suits their needs...

That makes sense, but why shouldn't Apple cash in on their advanced users? I'm sure they make a great margin from peripherals. Even if they still shipped with the single button mouse, the "Pro Mouse" should be available with multiple buttons.

Drakino · Dec 11, 2002, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by -Q-:
Apple's research has shown that when a new computer user is presented with a multi-button mouse, they invariably click the wrong button trying to do something, hence Jobs' insistence on the one-button mouse. From a simplicity, ease of use function it makes sense.

And for advanced users, they can buy a mouse that suits their needs...

I have no problem with this ideal on the desktop side. But on the laptop side, lack of choice on the built in mouse is a bad idea. Anyone wanting to do real professional work on the pro laptop has to buy and carry around a mouse to attach to it.

The best option short of giving users the choice of mouse buttons on the laptops would be to integrate bluetooth, and sell some bluetooth mice/trackballs alongside the laptops.

SMacTech · Dec 11, 2002, 02:05 PM

After setting up a <cough> new Dell <cough> for my mother-in-law, I can see why Apple uses a one button mouse. The most difficult thing for her was clicking the left mouse button. Being brand new to computing, there was enough stuff for her to learn, let alone using the mouse properly. And when I was all done, I was so glad to use my Mac, because XP Home edition is the pits.

Originally posted by Developer:
(think tendovaginitis), but nobody seems to care about that.

Is that something you can catch or hold on too?

Developer · Dec 11, 2002, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Is that something you can catch or hold on too?

To see it you just have to do a little self-experiment (poor English to come, try to understand anyway):

- hold your hand in the air
- strech out your index and middle finger, though keep your hand relaxed
- now lower your index finger like you would if you'd left click with the mouse
- watch what your middle finger does

You will notice that your middle finger lowers a little bit with your index finger. This is because we can't move our fingers completely independend.
To lower the index finger while keeping the middle finger into position, we have to move the middle finger a little bit into the opposite direction (that's why I said keep relaxed to see the effect).
Doing that is very stressing! Do that a few hundred times a day, and it can become a problem.
Now with a single mouse button you can press with as many fingers as you want which is a much more natural movement.

And before you say this is a minor thing or more theoretical, I do know someone personally who got a tendovaginitis on his right hand/arm.

In my opinion this is a major point, though usually overlooked.

SMacTech · Dec 11, 2002, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Developer:

You will notice that your middle finger lowers a little bit with your index finger. This is because we can't move our fingers completely independend.
I do know someone personally who got a tendovaginitis on his right hand/arm.

Hmmm, my middle finger doesn't move at all, seriously.
I also cannot find anything listed for tendovaginitis in my physician's desk reference either.

DeathMan · Dec 11, 2002, 02:54 PM

Those kensington mice seem pretty nice to me. I have a logitech mouse, though I don't love it, it works well for me. The apple mouse is nice, but it's nice to have a right click for photoshop. I can go both ways, though.

Anyone used one of those Kensington mice? Thinking about getting one for christmas. maybe.

Also about the moving the fingers thing. My finger doesn't move either as far as I can tell, but I do know that right clicking is very awkward when you first start. For beginners, and older people, right clicking is very difficult. It's nice to have the option, but a system should not be dependent on it.

Moonray · Dec 11, 2002, 03:05 PM

Oh my! I guess it is also confusing if a OS allows to have more than one window open at a time.

My keyboard has dozens of keys, how does a newbie handle that?
Shouldn't it be enough to have 26 keys for letters, space and return to finally get a fail-safe computer for all your grandparents?

-

Jim Paradise · Dec 11, 2002, 03:17 PM

What I'd like to see is scrollwheel support in *all* applications whether or not the developer has written it for support. Really now, there should be drivers like in OS 9 that make all things scrollable...

*sighs*

Developer · Dec 11, 2002, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by SMacTech:

Hmmm, my middle finger doesn't move at all, seriously.

Try it with your toes if you don't believe me. And trust me, you'll come into an age where you can see it at your hand too.

I also cannot find anything listed for tendovaginitis in my physician's desk reference either.

Then look up ten[d]osynovitis.

SMacTech · Dec 11, 2002, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
Try it with your toes if you don't believe me. And trust me, you'll come into an age where you can see it at your hand too.

Then look up ten[d]osynovitis.

I believe you, as several people here in the office have that affliction. I cannot move my little [pinky] finger without the one next to it moving, but many of the same with the above affliction can.
BTW, I have tendosynovitis and I thought your rendition of it was rather

-Q- · Dec 11, 2002, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by ringo:

That makes sense, but why shouldn't Apple cash in on their advanced users? I'm sure they make a great margin from peripherals. Even if they still shipped with the single button mouse, the "Pro Mouse" should be available with multiple buttons.

Now that is an excellent suggestion. They have consumer and portable machines, why not mice?

And Drakino made an excellent point but I think Apple's simply being true to their philosophy of simplicity. They could at least offer a free Kensington PocketMouse Pro with each TiBook to help alleviate that problem of one button on a pro machine...

TheIceMan · Dec 11, 2002, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by -Q-:

Now that is an excellent suggestion. They have consumer and portable machines, why not mice?

And Drakino made an excellent point but I think Apple's simply being true to their philosophy of simplicity. They could at least offer a free Kensington PocketMouse Pro with each TiBook to help alleviate that problem of one button on a pro machine...

I agree. As I understand it, the 1-button mouse was for simplicity when they came up with that idea. But truth is, advanced users like multi-button mice. I know Unix folks are into the keyboard, but many of us are not that tech-savy. We prefer the mouse and having 2 or more buttons is GREAT. I have the Logitech MX500 and have made good use of it. I right click to copy and paste and to save files and images. It saves alot time for me. I also use the forward and backward buttons to browse the web. Smart to me. Just my humble opinion.

moulish · Dec 11, 2002, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by wataru:
Probably not. If you want one, buy one.

that's what i did, but i paid for a one button mice that is in a shoe box. and how much are they selling these, $60? so it's $60 down the drain because my 2 buttons + scroll wheel cost me $30.

mbryda · Dec 11, 2002, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by moulish:
that's what i did, but i paid for a one button mice that is in a shoe box. and how much are they selling these, $60? so it's $60 down the drain because my 2 buttons + scroll wheel cost me $30.

Ebay it.

mbryda · Dec 11, 2002, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Maflynn:
But when was that 15 years ago? I'll go out on a limb and say the majority of people know which button to click to execute a program vs opening a contect window (right mouse button).

Do tech support some time - you'd be surprised to find many folks have no clue when to right click or left click.

redJag · Dec 11, 2002, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by mbryda:

Ebay it.

Interesting. I was about to laugh at that comment, assuming the going price was way too low on Ebay. I checked and they sell from 20-40 dollars!! That's more than I paid for my 2 button scrolling optical!! I just might do that. Thanks, sir.

Mr. Blur · Dec 12, 2002, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by IUJHJSDHE:
I couldnt deside if I should put it in the lounge or the os x forum.

Which one do you think I should of put it in?

Peripherals would have been the best choice.

malvolio · Dec 12, 2002, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by DeathMan:

Anyone used one of those Kensington mice? Thinking about getting one for christmas. maybe.

I use the 5-button-&-scroll-wheel Kensington Optical Pro. Schweeet input device!

And Kensington is very good about updating their drivers to stay current with upgrades to OS X.

GatoVolador · Dec 12, 2002, 01:07 AM

The Apple Pro mouse is beautiful, as it hangs next to my tiny apple display like a piece of modern art. Its beatiful to LooK at.

For anyone wanting to get a real mouse, I use the Logitech Mousman Optical Cordless. Its niiiiiiice. Just bought 1 pair of rechargable batteries and every three weeks i recharge them for and hour and another 3 weeks of no cable liberty. The scroll wheel feels good. My friend got the M$ 5 button cordless, and the scroll wheel on that feels cheap. Also, the thumb button the M$ mouse is in a terrible spot. As anyone who uses the Logitech knows, it isn't immediately evident but the thumb button is perfect where they placed it. My only complaint is that i wouldn't mind a pinky button, but for anyone wanting to stay optical while upgrading to 2button+scroll wheel and wireless, eBay around for a Mousman.