[Mac Guru]

This is for general discussion of OS X 10.3.

Mac Guru

[ambush]

If you guys want to chat on iChat with a bunch of lifeless Apple Maniacs like me, join us at the room "WWDC"!

[ambush]

LEAK BABY LEAK

http://www.mac.com/1/pantherpreview.html

THE NEW X IS UGLY!

[zachs]

The first thing I'll do when I install it...

SmoothStripes.

[ambush]

Apple pulled its panther preview.


http://www.spymac.com/gallery/slides...sort=1&thecat=

I posted it on spymac.com

[kman42]

Originally posted by ambush:
Apple pulled its panther preview.


http://www.spymac.com/gallery/slides...sort=1&thecat=

I posted it on spymac.com

Page doesn't seem to load.

kman

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by ambush:
Apple pulled its panther preview.


http://www.spymac.com/gallery/slides...sort=1&thecat=

I posted it on spymac.com

I just viewed it. But meh, brushed metal is kinda sexy. I'm all for it. I was all about Aqua three years ago when I first used it. Brushed metal is just fine. It's hard to please everyone with an interface, man.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by ambush:
LEAK BABY LEAK

http://www.mac.com/1/pantherpreview.html

THE NEW X IS UGLY!

I guess all of those rumors about the Finder being in metal is true. Even the OS X logo is metallic looking.

[kman42]

Originally posted by kman42:
Page doesn't seem to load.

kman

Put a 500 at the end of that url and it works. I guess the Finder is brushed metal. Hmmm...

kman

[kman42]

here

[ambush]

it went down but is now back up.

for a nice count down: http://3cmug.co.uk/countdown.html

[Nathan Adams]

yeah, it's back up on www.mac.com

I was very much hoping the leaks were fake - i LOATHE metal on the finder. I was hoping they would be working on making the finder more like the OS 9 one, but it seems they've gone well the opposite direction (sans, what looks to be very poorly implemented labels)

brushed metal is nice for non-essential apps, like the iLife suite. NOT the finder.

[[APi]TheMan]

Wow, either my connection sucks... or Apple's servers are getting swamped. Man, this is silly. You know there will be themes out, and most of you that don't like brushed metal probably didn't like Aqua to begin with, so you already have themes in mind.

Bah. You guys'll be fine. At least it'll be snappy, eh?

[sushiism]

brushed metal finder is such a bad idea, its the main thing you see really and its loosing its aqua identity, and the safari like buttons are nasty

[Espen Isaksen]

I don't quite understand why the use brushed metal for the finder. Hopefully it will look nicer when it is placed next to rest of the OS.

[DeathMan]

Originally posted by ambush:
If you guys want to chat on iChat with a bunch of lifeless Apple Maniacs like me, join us at the room "WWDC"!

How do I do this in iChat?

[kman42]

Originally posted by DeathMan:
How do I do this in iChat?

I don't get it either. I selected Go To Chat and entered WWDC, but it doesn't do anything--doesn't even open a new window or indicate it is trying in any way.

kman

[kman42]

Does this new iDisk mean that we will be getting Panther sooner than we think? I can't imagine they would put up something like that on their website with no indication that it was just for developers for a while. Seems odd.

Public Beta, perhaps? Ala Safari?

kman

[DeathMan]

Originally posted by kman42:
I don't get it either. I selected Go To Chat and entered WWDC, but it doesn't do anything--doesn't even open a new window or indicate it is trying in any way.

kman

I did the same thing. No error message, no nothing. Is it a firewall problem? Am I on crack? No. I don't know whats going on.

[60-hz]

Apple store currently down.

[andy_boyd]

I really don't know where Apple are going with this new Metal interface. Although Aqua was cycle hungry and performed slowly, especially on older machines, it was refined and more then useable.

To the outside world Apple stand for useability and supreme quality, but I feel that with this move away from a single GUI design towards a GUI with a mixture of Aqua and Metal widgets, they are starting to confuse the situation.

Metal is fair enough when used in iLife apps to distinguish them, but the finder is a critical app, not one for entertainment. Why must they insist on defying their own human interface guidelines? If they can't do it, can they really expect every other developer to keep to them? I don't think so.

If it turns out to be the interface disaster that it looks like from the leaked pics, then they have a lot of work to do just to get back to where Jaguar was, and still is.

In my opinion the only thing to redeem such a crappy, mixed up interface would be native support for themes! I know I don't have to buy it if I don't like, (you have to purchase Panther as confirmed in the bottom left corner of the leaked .Mac Panther Preview) but I just think that this looks pretty much like crap.

Just my 2 cents!!

Later

[WombatPredator]

Originally posted by andy_boyd:
I really don't know where Apple are going with this new Metal interface. Although Aqua was cycle hungry and performed slowly, especially on older machines, it was refined and more then useable.

Aqua was not slow. Quartz (the rendering engine) was. Metal and Aqua both rely on Quartz and should both perform the same way.

[clarkgoble]

BTW - for those without a feed, ARS has a writeup of the keynote:

http://arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/3q02/wwdc-622.html

[mike one]

brushed metal sucks ball$

gosh damnit


the only reason it doesn't kill me in safari is because i have the toolbar made so small!

[clarkgoble]

From the writeup it looks like the metal Finder windows will also appear for Open/Close dialogs. I couldn't quite understand that bit. Perhaps someone watching the keynote can comment? Here's what ARS wrote:

[13:13] <iPalindrome> Brand new finder!!!!
[13:13] <iPalindrome> What was wrong with the old Finder?
[13:14] <iPalindrome> It was computer-centric
[13:14] <iPalindrome> Column view in the old finder. My stuff is 4 levels down
[13:14] <iPalindrome> User centric finder
[13:14] <iPalindrome> Start off by learning from other interfaces they've built over the last few years
[13:14] <iPalindrome> Put stuff you want on the left

[13:15] <iPalindrome> All stuff in one column on the left of a finder window
[13:15] <iPalindrome> FInder has a brushed metal appearance
[13:15] <iPalindrome> So "root" now has Users, Apps, Home in addition to volumes
[13:15] <iPalindrome> Fast searching
[13:15] <iPalindrome> Action button
[13:15] <iPalindrome> Contextually sensitivie
[13:15] <iPalindrome> Will show you all options with a button
[13:15] <iPalindrome> Labels are back
[13:16] <iPalindrome> Dynamic netowrk browsing
[13:16] <iPalindrome> search for any server freight form the finder
[13:16] <iPalindrome> New open/save panels
[13:16] <iPalindrome> Big improvement
[13:16] <iPalindrome> Steve is sitting down at the demo machine
[13:16] <iPalindrome> Once again, frushed metal Finder window
[13:16] <iPalindrome> Menu bar across top of screen is still whitish
[13:16] <iPalindrome> Icon sizes resize dynamically with the window
[13:17] <iPalindrome> So left hand pane is present in all finder windows
[13:17] <iPalindrome> From top to bottom
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Macintosh HD
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Servers
[13:17] <iPalindrome> iDisk
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Removable optical media
[13:17] <iPalindrome> then divider
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Home
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Desktop
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Applications
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Documents
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Bascially everything that was across the top of the finder window is now in the left hand pane
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Demonstrating serarch
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Search is great
[13:17] <iPalindrome> Updates finder window with each keystroke
[13:18] <iPalindrome> Works extremely fast!!!
[13:18] <iPalindrome> That's a brief overview of the new finder and I think you'll like it al ot
[13:18] <iPalindrome> Buleleet points:
[13:18] <iPalindrome> Uswer centric
[13:18] <iPalindrome> Fast searching
[13:18] <iPalindrome> Action button
[13:18] <iPalindrome> Labels
[13:18] <iPalindrome> Open/save panels
[13:18] <iPalindrome> We finally got there with the Finder

[Kissargi]

You dont like metal then use T-H-E-M-E-S. sheesh....

[starman]

Installing it now. Gonna take a while for install/reboot.

Mike

[clarkgoble]

The problem with Themes are that they don't always work. (Witness iTunes)

BTW - Apple's site is now up with a bunch of preview pages for Panther.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/finder.html

It looks like the only thing like "smart playlists" in the Finder is a better search bar. So all those "piles" rumors never got included.

[galarneau]

So, did all the developers in attendance really get a preview copy of 10.3?

Personally, the deciding factor on whether or not I'll buy 10.3 is how it performs on older hardware.

Who will be the first to install 10.3 preview on a Pismo 400 and report back? C'mon it's a race... GO!!!.....

[absmiths]

Originally posted by galarneau:
So, did all the developers in attendance really get a preview copy of 10.3?

I would have preferred one of those iSight thingies...

[absmiths]

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
...So all those "piles" rumors never got included.

BRAVO! Those Piles were a pile (IMHO).

[Judge_Fire]

Expos� is for windows what piles would have been for files.

Maybe this was the source for those rumors.

J

[Colonel Panic]

apart from PDF speed, did Jobs talk about performance at all being an important consideration in Panther's design? For Puma and Jaguar, he stressed that performance was an area he was focused on. did he mention this for Panther. Clearly the #1 item on my wish list.

[JLL]

Originally posted by absmiths:
I would have preferred one of those iSight thingies...

They got both.

[clarkgoble]

Actually while the GUI aspect of piles were a joke, the other aspects were basically what BeOS had 5 years ago.

This is what many of us were eager to see in the Panther preview. More metadata and then smart "folders" using that metadata. Neither were mentioned.

Imagine, for instance, having a "Critical" flag you could set on files. Then instead of just folders in that left hand pane you could have a "Critical Files" smart folder. That smart folder would list everything in your directory (and perhaps network directories) that have that flag.

Expose has nothing to do with Piles that I can see, BTW.

[bluesloth]

On the panther preview page under the Pixlet description, it says:

"Pixlet lets high-end digital film frames play in real time with any Panther Mac, without investing in costly, proprietary playback hardware."

In the keynote, didn't Jobs say that Pixlet would only run on 1GHz machines and above. But here it says any "Panther Mac". Which, if correct would mean a Panther Mac would be one which is 1GHz or above.

Just a mistake? Do you think Apple would posible do this?

[entrox]

Originally posted by bluesloth:
Just a mistake? Do you think Apple would posible do this?

I wouldn't interpret it that way. I'm pretty sure Panther will run on all hardware that Jaguar runs on. But I wouldn't expect Pixlet to run flawlessly in full-screen on anything under a GHz machine - it will probably start skipping frames.

[ja]

Now didn't Pixar get lots of [visual] name checks today!
and by the way - isn't Renderman a 'rendering engine' - why was there a Renderman software icon in the dock in the G5 intro video??

[theolein]

I'm also of two minds about Apple's mixing of Metal and Aqua. I suggest that you let apple know in the feedback section on OSX on Apple's site. Apple should give users the choice of Aqua or Metal in all Apple applications.

[decursive]

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
Imagine, for instance, having a "Critical" flag you could set on files. Then instead of just folders in that left hand pane you could have a "Critical Files" smart folder. That smart folder would list everything in your directory (and perhaps network directories) that have that flag.

ummm, that's the point of labels. you can name a color whatever you want, and set a bunch of files to that. the second part is the only thing that's missing, but hopefully they will add smart folders by the final (it shouldn't be too hard with labels in place).

[mjarski15]

So I notice that the Network Icon is still around and in the main finder window in the Panther Preview screenshots, is it actually useful to the average user now? It would be nice if the local network showed up there or they made it easily configurable. I am also interested to here whether Panther speeds 10 up on older machines.

[JLL]

Originally posted by mjarski15:
So I notice that the Network Icon is still around and in the main finder window in the Panther Preview screenshots, is it actually useful to the average user now? It would be nice if the local network showed up there or they made it easily configurable. I am also interested to here whether Panther speeds 10 up on older machines.

The Network icon shows the local network.

[b00tang]

if developers really got a preview why aren't they posting their thoughts about it? infact everyone has been pretty quiet about this whole thing, am I missing something?

brushed metal- i just don't like it because it feels bulky to me for a finder view. maybe its not and I am just crazy but thats my beef with it.

old macs- so now any mac older than 1 ghz is out of date? Weren't 1ghz imacs just released in febuary(i really don't know the date on them thats a guess)? My 800 mhz went out of date in less than a year. good thing I am a big dang tool for apple, if i wasn't such a sucker I would be much more angry (but i know I won't switch so who am i kidding).

[lavar78]

Originally posted by decursive:
ummm, that's the point of labels. you can name a color whatever you want, and set a bunch of files to that. the second part is the only thing that's missing, but hopefully they will add smart folders by the final (it shouldn't be too hard with labels in place).

But there are only so many colors you can use for labels. The approach he mentioned would be much more versatile and robust.

[Richard3333]

I surely hope performance is better, because according to the developer package given out, Panther requires DP 867 or BETTER, and DP1GHz is recommended, MANY functions will NOT work on a G4 class machine.

Maybe this is only for the developer preview, maybe not...

[clarkgoble]

As the previous poster said, labels are very limited. For one you only have a few. For an other any file can only have a single label.

With full metadata you can have multiple labels apply to a single file. Further instead of being stuck with just a single label each label can have values. You might have instead of just a flag that is "critical" a critical level of 1-4.

Basically the way to think of metadata is how you have all that metadata in iTunes like artist, album or so forth. A good file system and finder would give you all the power iTunes has for music for any kind of data.

[gthyb]

omg. i hope those requirements aren't acurate. i want panther to speed up my 800mhz imac, not make it slower...

[donutogre]

Originally posted by gthyb:
omg. i hope those requirements aren't acurate. i want panther to speed up my 800mhz imac, not make it slower...

i'm going to guess that the requirements for the final version are not nearly that high...i've noticed that with most betas, the system requirements are typically much higher than the final system requirements....although, that was never with an OS, so take what i say with a grain of salt.

[Musti]

Originally posted by b00tang:
if developers really got a preview why aren't they posting their thoughts about it? infact everyone has been pretty quiet about this whole thing, am I missing something?

Exactly. What's going on? Why is the reason of this omerta? Hard to believe noone has installed it yet...Or has cared to post some specifics and/or screenshots other than those we already know by now...

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
From the writeup it looks like the metal Finder windows will also appear for Open/Close dialogs. I couldn't quite understand that bit.

Here's the Finder:



Here's the save dialog:



I wouldn't take absence of either piles or "smart" folders (the latter being more likely IMO) as meaning that they're not in Panther. The preview is very incomplete. I think they're still tinkering quite a bit. The more I think about it, the more I realize that Panther will probably not be ready by September for just that reason.