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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Official WWDC Panther Raves Thread

Official WWDC Panther Raves Thread
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Mac Guru
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:19 AM
 
You gotta love it baby! Tell us what it is you love!

Mac Guru
     
Powaqqatsi
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Jun 23, 2003, 05:05 AM
 
Well, you are being efficient. 3 times the same tread
     
mishap
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Jun 23, 2003, 10:26 AM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Well, you are being efficient. 3 times the same tread
yeah even more confusing then it would have been anyway...

whatever i'll be at the apple store.
     
Ozmodiar
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Jun 23, 2003, 10:42 AM
 
I think it makes more sense to have official threads than to have 434121232 threads on the same frickin' topic.

     
Geobunny
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:13 PM
 
Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Well, you are being efficient. 3 times the same tread
Not quite the same three threads
Official thread (general comments)
Raves
Rants
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absmiths
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:36 PM
 
Originally posted by Geobunny:
Not quite the same three threads
Official thread (general comments)
Raves
Rants
Yes, but, the Rants thread will degenerate into "I hate this" "No, I love that", and the Rave thread will degenerate into "I Love this" "No, I hate that!", and the overview more than likely will too.

Maybe I am just cynical. (We need a pokes-myself-with-stick emoticon)
     
goose
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:50 PM
 
Originally posted by absmiths:
Yes, but, the Rants thread will degenerate into "I hate this" "No, I love that", and the Rave thread will degenerate into "I Love this" "No, I hate that!", and the overview more than likely will too.

Maybe I am just cynical. (We need a pokes-myself-with-stick emoticon)
Or the posts could be about the threads themselves.

I'm glad Mail will be able to do HTML email now.

There's never enough when you have too little
     
clarkgoble
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:57 PM
 
As I mentioned in one of the other threads, Finder windows are now more like iTunes windows. Further I *think* that open/close dialogs now just bring up one of these metalized Finder windows.

When you start to think of it as a "controller" rather than a traditional Finder then the metal doesn't seem as bad. Still I hope one can remove it as one can with Safari.
     
Simon
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:58 PM
 
Nice idea MacGuru. This is much better than 3 billion different threads on the same topic.

To the Panther Rave: YES!!! Simultaneous graphical user sessions! I Love it. I'm amazed. When Jaguar came out a year ago I requested this feature for OS X. A year later and it's here. Thanks Apple!
     
zachs
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:01 PM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
Nice idea MacGuru. This is much better than 3 billion different threads on the same topic.

To the Panther Rave: YES!!! Simultaneous graphical user sessions! I Love it. I'm amazed. When Jaguar came out a year ago I requested this feature for OS X. A year later and it's here. Thanks Apple!
I love the way it switches though -
using the 3D cube effect (as in Keynote).

     
clarkgoble
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:35 PM
 
They finally updated address so it prints Avery labels properly!

http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/mail.html
     
clarkgoble
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:40 PM
 
An other big plus not mentioned at the keynote is better font control. Basically the features of Suitcase are now in OSX.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/font_book.html

For those many applications that didn't support OSX font handling you can now activate and deactivate fonts very easily.
     
iOliverC
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:51 PM
 
Just look at those Open/Save panels, big plus for me, the current ones suck.
     
vmpaul
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:21 PM
 
Originally posted by Geobunny:
Not quite the same three threads
Official thread (general comments)
Raves
Rants
I think there should be a 4th:

Rants - that DON"T have anything TO DO WITH BRUSHED METAL

I'd like to hear some REAL critiques rather than this obsession with the window trim. 8 out of 10 posts are about brushed metal and they always seem to be.

Geez, you'd think people wouldn't care if we were on 68000 processor's still and running OS9 as long as there wasn't brushed metal. Get over it. It's not the most important thing.
     
JLL
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:27 PM
 
I like the new tabs.
JLL

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iOliverC
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Jun 23, 2003, 05:03 PM
 
Originally posted by JLL:
I like the new tabs.
Me too, does anyone know if the old ones are still a option in the new dev tools?
     
Richard Clark
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Jun 23, 2003, 05:12 PM
 
Two Words - Brushed Metal. I like the look of it. I'm not sure about with the buttons with more flatness like we've seen in iTunes. But I think it's about time they standardized with the brushed look.

"Tough Little Ship" - Riker
"LITTLE?" - Worf after having the Defiant salvaged by the Enterprise (First Contact)
     
DVD Plaza
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Jun 23, 2003, 05:56 PM
 
Apple is raving about Mac OSX Panther Server taking advantage of the G5 - so a new Xserve is coming shortly?
     
Colonel Panic
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Jun 23, 2003, 06:05 PM
 
that seems like a fair bet....
     
::maroma::
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Jun 23, 2003, 08:22 PM
 
I'm diggin it! I can't wait!
     
yellowdog
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Jun 23, 2003, 11:28 PM
 
SJ says Panther will be out by the end of the year. The key question is, when does his year end - fiscal end September or calendar end December? What a foxy guy he is, huh?
     
zachs
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Jun 23, 2003, 11:35 PM
 
Originally posted by yellowdog:
SJ says Panther will be out by the end of the year. The key question is, when does his year end - fiscal end September or calendar end December? What a foxy guy he is, huh?
The fact that the iChat AV Beta for Jaguar expires in December points to a release in that month.

     
passmaster16
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Jun 24, 2003, 12:33 AM
 
Originally posted by zachs:
The fact that the iChat AV Beta for Jaguar expires in December points to a release in that month.

not necessarily, sometimes the GM will be finished and released long before a final beta expires...I would guess Sept-Oct. They *typically* don't change a lot of the stuff from the preview edition to the GM. Guess we'll have to wait and see
     
MusicalTone
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Jun 24, 2003, 02:06 AM
 
Personally I dont like being told where and when I can post my positive comments and where and when I can post my negative comments. The moderartors ahve really messed things up and it shows in the very low number of posts. The beaty of the BB system is that threads evolve organically, almost by natural selection with some being popular and others not. You cannot impost that from the outside, it doesnt work. The players have to be free to choose...
     
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Jun 24, 2003, 06:41 AM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
An other big plus not mentioned at the keynote is better font control. Basically the features of Suitcase are now in OSX.
Nitpick: this was well covered in the keynote

But yeah, frickin' awesome that

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benb
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Jun 24, 2003, 11:51 AM
 
Originally posted by MusicalTone:
Personally I dont like being told where and when I can post my positive comments and where and when I can post my negative comments. The moderartors ahve really messed things up and it shows in the very low number of posts. The beaty of the BB system is that threads evolve organically, almost by natural selection with some being popular and others not. You cannot impost that from the outside, it doesnt work. The players have to be free to choose...
Shut up. It losers like you that make these threads necessary.
     
b00tang
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Jun 24, 2003, 02:40 PM
 
as far as being back to the subject, anyone else notice that if you are using ichat av and you have a song playing in itunes when you accept a voice chat it pauses the song automatically and then starts it again when you stop... maybe this is more an ichat thing but i chalk it up to a well made os that handles my other apps like that, wonder why steve didn't show this?

also could someone tell me when panther is supposed to come out? Dealmac claims december (shudder)

(also its a little disheartening to see the raves thread only talking about the set up of the threads... guess panther must suck)
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Jun 24, 2003, 02:41 PM
 
Originally posted by MusicalTone:
Personally I dont like being told where and when I can post my positive comments and where and when I can post my negative comments. The moderartors ahve really messed things up and it shows in the very low number of posts. The beaty of the BB system is that threads evolve organically, almost by natural selection with some being popular and others not. You cannot impost that from the outside, it doesnt work. The players have to be free to choose...
Shouldn't you have started another thread for this?

     
Cory Bauer
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Jun 24, 2003, 03:05 PM
 
I'd bet November, or maybe December. If it was any earlier, Steve would have said, "This Fall". Anyhow, it is truly sad and nearly pathetic that the Rants thread is twice the length as the Raves thread. What a sad, sad bunch of bastards.

Having said that, I'm happy to be part of the Raves thread and good to know there are at least some people on this board that know a good thing when they see it. Here's my Panther comments:

- The Font Book is way cool, Graphic Designers will be happy
- The new Finder looks like it will make my life easier, and navigation of my computer much more enjoyable and hassle-free
- The new Open/Save dialog boxes are fantastic. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you Apple for listening to feedback
- Expos� is perhaps the single most useful feature added to an Operating System in ten or more years - brilliant work, Apple
- Faster user switching will be great for my mum's computer, but won't effect me as I am the only user of my computer. I love the way Apple implemented this feature, however.
- Faxing and the ability to print labels from Address book will be great for the office - I only wish we could have these features now instead of Christmas
- Dragging addresses in Mail and the grouping of threads thing is very cool

I have a feeling Steve only scratched the surface with the Panther demo. Although he probably touched on the biggest new features in Panther, we all know it's hundreds of little unmentioned features that make the upgrade worth the money. At least, the people in this thread know that.
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Jun 24, 2003, 03:57 PM
 
Labels!
whoo hoo
     
Finrock
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Jun 24, 2003, 05:05 PM
 
I can't tell you how much I like expos�. I programmed my middle mouse button to act as the trigger (in the expos� pane of the System Preferences) and it works flawlessly. It is so wonderful when I'm working with 20-30 open windows.

We installed it on a DP450/512 with a Rage128 card (read: no QE) and the performance was nothing short of amazing. I loaded up the system and tried to bog it down but it kept on plugging.

Most noticible observation: all apps open dramatically faster.

Oh yeah, and preview finally is fast.

-Finrock
     
conny
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Jun 24, 2003, 05:31 PM
 
Originally posted by Finrock:
I can't tell you how much I like expos�. I programmed my middle mouse button to act as the trigger (in the expos� pane of the System Preferences) and it works flawlessly. It is so wonderful when I'm working with 20-30 open windows.

We installed it on a DP450/512 with a Rage128 card (read: no QE) and the performance was nothing short of amazing. I loaded up the system and tried to bog it down but it kept on plugging.

Most noticible observation: all apps open dramatically faster.

Oh yeah, and preview finally is fast.

-Finrock
Interesting to finally here comments from somebody who actually have hands on experience with the preview version of Panther. Is there anything else you would like to comment on? We just love to hear any details, big or small...
I'm sooo looking forward to play with expose, it seems like a really smart idea. It's funny because me and a friend just talked about how you could increase window management. This seems to be a good solution to the problem. And since I share the computer with my wife the user wsitching feature is very welcome. Noe I don't need to close down all my apps just for her to check her email.
     
Cory Bauer
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Jun 24, 2003, 06:03 PM
 
Originally posted by Finrock:
We installed it on a DP450/512 with a Rage128 card (read: no QE) and the performance was nothing short of amazing. I loaded up the system and tried to bog it down but it kept on plugging.
Are you serious, or are you pulling my leg? This just seems like one of those too good to be true things, so I apologize if you're being honest. I'm almost scared to believe you
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ASIMO
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Jun 24, 2003, 06:58 PM
 
Are Avie and company on crack? Apple needs new system sales, not make X faster on older ones.
I, ASIMO.
     
Millennium
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Jun 24, 2003, 07:37 PM
 
Originally posted by ASIMO:
Are Avie and company on crack? Apple needs new system sales, not make X faster on older ones.
This is true, but many of the things they're doing with OSX right now have the side benefit of making it leaner, faster, and more consistent on all machines. A good example of this is the ongiong reimplementation of Cocoa to run on top of Carbon, thus having the two API's run from a single codebase. In the process of doing this, they have to rework Carbon to make use of the superior system-integration in Cocoa, while at the same time adding Carbon's richer control and feature set to Cocoa. That takes a lot of work, and there are many opportunities to improve things. This is not limited to GUI toolkits either; there are plenty of places that had to be reworked for the G5, and at every step of the way, things can usually be improved somewhat. Consider the performance improvements in Panther to be a nice side effect of prepping it for a new architecture.

Also, don't think that developers always follow exactly what they're told to do, to the letter. Most commonly we'll see these minor mutinies in the form of Easter Eggs, but it's not unknown for programmers to sneak entire new features into the program, Just Because They Want To. Sometimes these get stomped out by The Boss, but sometimes marketing will catch wind of them and push for them to be kept. For example, the ever classic "it's faster". Everyone likes a faster OS, and if the claims can be backed up, it will drive sales. Marketing likes this.
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b00tang
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:24 PM
 
I know I'm not a business major or anything, but isn't apples biggest problem their small market share? I mean their switch campaign would lead one to believe that their big focus is gaining new users from other platforms. How do you do that? By making a great product people want. Thats why I believe apple can't just dick their customers for the sake of selling new machines. yeah they need new machines, but if panther is a good deal faster than jaguar and breathes new life into old machines it just means more reason to go apple doesn't it?

Sorry, what I meant to say (which is on topic): I don't know much about development, but if the version of panther steve was using had all those features and it won't be finally released until as late as december won't there almost have to be some really nice new features we still don't know about? I know bill gates way back when was previewing software at a conference and got the blue screen of death, but if its stable enough to preview like that how much time do coders need to just make it releasable? And if its as much faster finrock claims then i'm switching my vote from "I wouldn't pay 129 for that to" "I can't way to shell out my cash"
ipod why have you forsaken me?!?!?!
     
Cory Bauer
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Jun 24, 2003, 08:48 PM
 
And now that Apple has a droolworthy Powermac lineup, and that those G5's will start to trickle down into other products over the year (or at least those products will get the G4 chips that were reserved for the "high end" before the G5 was announced), Apple is making computers that people actually want to spend money on. So, Apple's going to sell more computers, and they don't need to make their OS a slow pile in order to do that.

b00tang, just because the features Steve demoed worked doesn't mean anything else works As for having time to add more really nice new features, I'm sure there will be many more features we haven' seen (after all, they didn't show us the 100 new features that they say Panther has), but don't expect any new features that are above and beyond what Steve demoed. It seems that with the past OS X releases, everyone has always anticipated that there's going to be some fantastic unseen hidden features in the update that Steve didn't tell us about, and that has never been the case. Expect lots of nice little additions in addition to the biggest new features that Steve demoed, and nothing more. That's the safest thing to do. Personally, it's the sum of all the little additions and alterations to the new OS's that makes me feel it's worth $129.
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lawgeek
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Jun 24, 2003, 11:19 PM
 
Originally posted by JLL:
I like the new tabs.
Pics please?
     
clarkgoble
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Jun 25, 2003, 03:35 AM
 
What everyone should be excited about (if it lives up to the hype) is XCode. Project Builder was very weak. If Apple can provide better developer tools then that benefits everyone as programmers can get their code to market faster, ports will go quicker and more people will program.
     
rytc
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Jun 25, 2003, 04:50 AM
 
Originally posted by goose:
I'm glad Mail will be able to do HTML email now.
What do you mean will? Mail does HTML emails fine just now, and has done since day 1 (well day one being 10.1 for me)

cheers Ry
     
Finrock
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Jun 25, 2003, 06:57 AM
 
I'm seriously not kidding about the speed. The UI really feels fast on the DP450 I installed it on. I was more impressed with the speed because of the machine's lack of Quartz Extreme video card.

Hopefully I'll have the time to install it on a few MDD G4s we have sitting around. I'm curious to see how it does on a single but faster processor.

-Finrock
     
Finrock
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Jun 25, 2003, 08:47 AM
 
Ok, today I wanted to see how 10.3 runs in a faster machine. Yesterday I tried it in a DP450 with a rage128 graphics card. This morning I found a DP867/1GB/GF4MX, so I decided to take the lazy way out and take the hard drive from the DP450 with 10.3 installed and put it in the DP867.

It booted like a champ! So far, everything is just SO much faster. Between QE and 1 GB of ram, it feels so comfortable to use. The UI seems very (insert adjective for snappy here), and very refined.

What next?
     
rm199
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Jun 25, 2003, 09:30 AM
 
Has anyone benchmarked a game or VPC under Panther DP1?

RM
     
Simon
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Jun 26, 2003, 07:54 AM
 
Finrock, thanks for those nice comments about perceived speed. I'm sure they'll make a lot of people's day.

Now, could somebody give us some speed impressions of Panther running on SP machines. Like, what should I expect from Panther on my single 1GHz G4 in my iMac? Jaguar isn't slow at all, but if Panther is even better then life will sure be sweet.

     
Finrock
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Jun 26, 2003, 09:42 AM
 
Simon, I'm planning on installing it on my 17" PowerBook this afternoon. I'll let you know how it runs. Any specific questions?

-Finrock
     
Simon
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Jun 26, 2003, 02:09 PM
 
Originally posted by Finrock:
Simon, I'm planning on installing it on my 17" PowerBook this afternoon. I'll let you know how it runs. Any specific questions?

-Finrock
Hey thanks!

Maybe some xBench numbers would be nice. And of course snappiness tests.
     
Finrock
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Jun 26, 2003, 04:44 PM
 
Hmmm... I think it might be time to write a cocoa app to test for snappiness�.

-Finrock
     
Simon
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Jun 27, 2003, 03:46 AM
 
Originally posted by Finrock:
Hmmm... I think it might be time to write a cocoa app to test for snappiness�.

-Finrock
     
   
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