Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

vtboyarc · Aug 8, 2007, 05:03 PM

I have a very limited budget, and I want a mac laptop. I've been thinking of getting a macbook, but I don't like the outdated graphics card it has.(the intel gma 950) so the question is, other than the macbook pro having a much better graphics card, what else is different/better about it that makes it cost that much more than a macbook? would it be worth getting one? thanks!

peeb · Aug 8, 2007, 05:04 PM

What will you use it for?

vtboyarc · Aug 8, 2007, 05:05 PM

well mostly college work, but also imovie a lot, and maybe get windows on it and get some games

Rumor · Aug 8, 2007, 05:52 PM

Go with the MBP then. It has better video, better screen, allows more RAM and a faster FSB.

mduell · Aug 8, 2007, 05:52 PM

Games? Yes, get the Pro; the regular MacBook has 2 year old integrated graphics that perform poorly with today's games at reasonable resolutions/quality settings.

jaydon34 · Aug 10, 2007, 12:35 AM

I just upgraded from a 1st generation Macbook to a Macbook Pro. The processor jump was a 1.83 to 2.16 and is noticeable faster. Of course battery life on the pro isn't as good but the other added upgrades make up the difference. The express 3/4 slot, backlight keyboard, 256mb graphics (128mb is the standard), Dual-link dvi are some of the many features you gain over a standard Macbook. After having my Macbook for 1.5 years and loving it, looking back I would never make that purchase again. For almost the same cost as the Macbook I was able to get a refurbished Pro. So my advice to you spend a little extra and go for the Pro if you plan on having the machine for a while.

G. I. · Aug 10, 2007, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Go with the MBP then. It has better video, better screen.

Except when the bottom 1/3 of the screen is yellowish.

chipchen · Aug 10, 2007, 05:04 AM

If the games you're talking about aren't going to be high-intensity first person shooter type games... then you can just get a MacBook. Save the money and get more RAM, a nice case, and take a cute girl out to dinner.

mfbernstein · Aug 10, 2007, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by vtboyarc

I have a very limited budget, and I want a mac laptop. I've been thinking of getting a macbook, but I don't like the outdated graphics card it has.(the intel gma 950) so the question is, other than the macbook pro having a much better graphics card, what else is different/better about it that makes it cost that much more than a macbook? would it be worth getting one? thanks!

As a compromise, you can get a refurbished 1st or 2nd gen. MBP for considerably less than a new one ($1300-1500) or if you're very patient, the 2.2GHZ Santa Rosa MBP for around 20% off list price. Academic discount is ~10%, but can't be combined with other discounts (so the refurb. is cheaper when it's available). Also, for $100, you can sign up to become a student developer, which gives you an additional 1-time discount (only for new machines though, not refurbs.)

As to the MBP vs. MB, the MBP offers a number of advantages;
-faster processors and bus speed
-larger screen, with possibility of matte (not only glossy)
-comparatively more normal keyboard
-4GB RAM limit (instead of 3)
-FireWire 800
-Express Card expansion
-Comparable weight

The MB has a few advantages too though:
-user-accessible hard drive (easy to upgrade)
-better wireless reception
-less easily scratched case

MacosNerd · Aug 10, 2007, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by G. I.

Except when the bottom 1/3 of the screen is yellowish.

Mine isn't and from what I've read a lot of people's screens are find and exhibit no such yellowing.

PaperNotes · Aug 10, 2007, 08:10 AM

I'm waiting for the MBP to have the new keyboard and Penryn.

roller · Aug 10, 2007, 08:15 AM

I'd like to echo the notion of going with a refurb. I find myself regularly mentioning the option on these message boards. In this case, it is the perfect option. You can get a much more powerful machine for reduced cost if you go with a refurb, and the quality is no less than a "new" machine. I have written more about this on the iSwitched lens in my sig... Honestly, why pay more?

ghporter · Aug 10, 2007, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

Mine isn't and from what I've read a lot of people's screens are find and exhibit no such yellowing.

Nor mine. That sounds like a manufacturing problem, and a MBP with that sort of issue should be replaced by Apple.

sdilley14 · Aug 10, 2007, 08:45 AM

I upgraded from a 2.0GHz CD BlackBook with 1GB to a 2.16C2D MBP with 1GB then purchased an extra 1GB off of Crucial for $50. Anyways, it is a large difference IMO. Personally I like the form factor of the MBP a LOT more. The BlackBook casing picks up finger prints and any dust VERY easily. I also really prefer the keyboard on the MBP and the upgraded display. I ran Parallels on that machine and on this MBP and it's night and day (I imagine due mostly in part to the RAM). It is MUCH more responsive on this machine. The faster processor and FSB make a big difference in that too. One thing I also noticed (maybe it's just me), but there was some scaling going on when I would run the standard screen-saver. No other apps going or anything like that, and I would notice some mild scaling going on. I'm guessing it's due to the weak graphics card. That alone was enough to prevent me from even trying to do any gaming or video editing. Anyways, in the short and definitely in the long term, it'd be better to get a few extra $100 bucks and spring for the MBP.

vtboyarc · Aug 10, 2007, 10:32 PM

mbp not as good wireless? whats with that?

bballe336 · Aug 11, 2007, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

I'm waiting for the MBP to have the new keyboard and Penryn.

Apple will never put a macbook style keyboard on the macbook pros. The macbooks keyboard is possibly the worst laptop keyboard ever, it is not functional at all, and certainly not very professional. The macbook style keyboard is fine for consumers, just like glossy screens, I think apple can distinguish what is acceptable for a consumer and what is acceptable for a professional, the differences are huge.

ghporter · Aug 11, 2007, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by vtboyarc

mbp not as good wireless? whats with that?

It's not something I've experienced. Side-by-side with a BlackBook I get at least as good a signal with my MBP as my BlackBook-using classmate does. And this is in a "challenging" coverage area.

vtboyarc · Aug 11, 2007, 01:21 PM

what about the screen turning yellow?

Waragainstsleep · Aug 11, 2007, 01:56 PM

The yellow screen issue is a teething problem with the new LED technology. Its probably been ironed out already. The ones in our showroom are all fine.
If money is an issue, you should be comparing the MacBook to a refurb MBP. (Or even a refurb MacBook)
It doesn't sound like you are a hardcore gamer, so the MacBook should be OK since it will play most games, just not necessarily as well as the MBP.
For everything else you are unlikely to notice a massive performance difference.
For a student, I would say the MacBook is more suitable. Its more portable, more durable, better wireless reception. And for the price difference, you could get Applecare, or spec up the RAM and HD, or get an external display or any number of other toys. (TV tuner? Backup drive?)
Thats my opinion anyhow.

vtboyarc · Aug 11, 2007, 03:56 PM

very good advice. maybe I will just get Macbook. But my concern is that its not as future proof as a pro.(?)

jaydon34 · Aug 12, 2007, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by bballe336

Apple will never put a macbook style keyboard on the macbook pros. The macbooks keyboard is possibly the worst laptop keyboard ever, it is not functional at all, and certainly not very professional. The macbook style keyboard is fine for consumers, just like glossy screens, I think apple can distinguish what is acceptable for a consumer and what is acceptable for a professional, the differences are huge.

I have a feeling that you are wrong my friend. Apple released the new Imacs with a Macbook style keyboard. So it would only be likely that the next Macbook Pro's keyboard will be similar to the Macbook and new Imacs. Plus as good as the keyboard is on the Macbook Pro it just looks old.

mfbernstein · Aug 12, 2007, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by vtboyarc

very good advice. maybe I will just get Macbook. But my concern is that its not as future proof as a pro.(?)

Decide how long you intend to keep the machine, what apps. you will run, and whether you expect to keep the software updated or not. If weak 3D graphics, a lower RAM ceiling or absence of ExpressCard expansion seem likely to be an issue, act accordingly.

When I got my TiBook 667 in 2002, it had roughly the same price differential against the iBook as the top-of-the-line-MBP has against the MB today. At the time, the difference in processor, video card, memory expansion and PCMCIA card seemed to be a big deal. 4 years later, the performance difference between the two seemed pretty minimal on most things, but there were exceptions. On the other hand, the difference between the MB and MBP is somewhat less.

bballe336 · Aug 12, 2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by jaydon34

I have a feeling that you are wrong my friend. Apple released the new Imacs with a Macbook style keyboard. So it would only be likely that the next Macbook Pro's keyboard will be similar to the Macbook and new Imacs. Plus as good as the keyboard is on the Macbook Pro it just looks old.

The imac and macbook are both consumer machines, the macbook pro however is a professional machine, the scrabble key keyboards being offered with the consumer machines are horrendous. Putting them on macbook pros would ruin the machine's aesthetic and feel, not to mention those keyboards are lousy for typing. I think apple has realized that professional users want a keyboard that is both functional and attractive, hence the keyboard on the macbook pro. Apple has also had many chances to change the keyboard, the last major update would have been when they would have done it. I really can't see it happening.