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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Iraq and Iran to form defense alliance, snub US

Iraq and Iran to form defense alliance, snub US
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Krusty
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Jul 7, 2005, 08:46 AM
 
Link to a New Zealand news source citing Reuters (Reuter's direct link gave "Server too busy" repeatedly).

It appears that the newly formed Iraqi government is choosing to create a defense alliance with former arch-rival Iran. Iran will help train the Iraqi military, help clear mines, and donate 1 billion toward Iraq's reconstruction. I can't imagine a more resounding rejection of the US run occupation than for Iraq to choose an alliance with its (formerly) most bitter opponent.

If this isn't a complete curve ball to the Bush and Blair Administrations, I don't know what is. I eagerly await the Bush Admin's response to this development.

If they don't try to block it, then they are essentially going to have to cede a lot of the control and influence to an independent Iraq which is choosing, after hundreds of billions in US expenditures and tens of thousand of casualties, to exercise its sovereignty by aligning itself with one of Bush's "axis of evil" countries.

If they do try to block it, then they are putting the lie to their last major stated reason for the war (the "liberation" of Iraq ... WMD and Terrorist Ties arguments have already fallen apart). They'll be showing that the intent was not to liberate Iraq at all, but to create a puppet regime controlled by the US. ... one that is really only "sovereign" as long as they do what the US wants them to do.

This will probably get very interesting VERY soon.
[edit] Reuters link worked again, here's the text
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Former foes Iran and Iraq said on Thursday they would sign a military cooperation agreement which will include Iranian help in training Iraq's armed forces.

The agreement marks a considerable advance in relations between the two countries who fought a bitter 1980-1988 war and comes despite repeated U.S. accusations that Iran has undermined security in Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003.

"It's a new chapter in our relations with Iraq. We will start wide defense cooperations," Iranian Defense Minister Admiral Ali Shamkhani told a joint news conference with visiting Iraqi counterpart Saadoun al-Dulaimi.

"We're going to form some committees which will be involved in mine clearance, identifying those missing from the war and also ... to help train, rebuild and modernise the Iraqi army."

Iran last year offered to train Iraqi border guards, but Iraq frostily declined the offer.

U.S. and Iraqi officials have often accused non-Arab Iran of stirring up instability in Iraq. Tehran denies meddling in Iraq or helping arms and foreign fighters cross its borders.

Asked about possible U.S. opposition to Iran-Iraq military cooperation, Shamkhani said: "No one can prevent us from reaching an agreement."

Iraq's al-Dulaimi echoed Shamkhani's comments.

"Nobody can dictate to Iraq its relations with other countries," he said.
( Last edited by Krusty; Jul 7, 2005 at 08:52 AM. )
     
Millennium
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Jul 7, 2005, 08:59 AM
 
So in other words, this will put Bush's promises of an independent Iraq to the test.

Personally, I welcome such a concept. I agree with you, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
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von Wrangell
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Jul 7, 2005, 09:05 AM
 


I sincerely hope they go through with this. Will be very interesting to see how this pans out.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
BRussell
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Jul 7, 2005, 09:59 AM
 
Bush's "axis of evil" statement was true, then. A little premature though.
     
von Wrangell
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Jul 7, 2005, 10:10 AM
 
BBC report on the matter:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4659287.stm


It's gathering pace. Good stuff.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
jbartone
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Jul 8, 2005, 12:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
BBC report on the matter:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4659287.stm


It's gathering pace. Good stuff.

Do you want this for any reason other than to spite the US?
     
von Wrangell
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Jul 8, 2005, 06:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by jbartone
Do you want this for any reason other than to spite the US?
Yes.


And why would this be "to spite the US". Don't you want a free Iraq that makes it's own decisions, are friendly to their neighbours and take care of their own security?


To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Millennium
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Jul 8, 2005, 07:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
And why would this be "to spite the US". Don't you want a free Iraq that makes it's own decisions, are friendly to their neighbours and take care of their own security?
Indeed. That said, I can't help but question the wisdom of this particular alliance. Iran and Iraq have not been on terribly friendly terms for a long time, and quite recently (in a historical sense) they were trying to take each other over. Although the government of one of these nations has undergone fundamental changes, the other has not yet changed much, despite great effort from a recent influx of relative moderates into power there. For that matter, there are a large number of insurgency sympathizers in Iran, mostly along the hardline-Islamist faction which makes up a significant portion of that insurgency. Friendly relations are always a Good Thing, but is it truly wise to turn to such a nation for military aid of all things?

It is, of course, the prerogative of the Iraqi government. However, I do not see this turning out well for them at all.
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Taliesin
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Jul 8, 2005, 07:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Millennium
Indeed. That said, I can't help but question the wisdom of this particular alliance. Iran and Iraq have not been on terribly friendly terms for a long time, and quite recently (in a historical sense) they were trying to take each other over. Although the government of one of these nations has undergone fundamental changes, the other has not yet changed much, despite great effort from a recent influx of relative moderates into power there. For that matter, there are a large number of insurgency sympathizers in Iran, mostly along the hardline-Islamist faction which makes up a significant portion of that insurgency.
I don't agree. While Iran has an islamistic government or rather islamistic mullahs with more power than the parliament or president, they are shia-islamists and therefore an enemy of the sunni-islamists and viceversa. So, eventhough I can see how Iran might get a chuckle out of the problems the US has with the sunni-insurgency, which by the way is only in a small part organized by islamists, the bigger part is organized by the remnants of the Baath-regime, in the long-term Iran probably doesn't want the insurgency to continue, as it would only be a justification for US-troops to stay in Iraq.

Quite to the contrary I think it's likely that Iran would like to help in ending the sunni-insurgency and create a secure atmosphere in Iraq, so that US-troops get withdrawn from their doorstep.


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von Wrangell
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Jul 8, 2005, 07:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Millennium
Indeed. That said, I can't help but question the wisdom of this particular alliance. Iran and Iraq have not been on terribly friendly terms for a long time, and quite recently (in a historical sense) they were trying to take each other over. Although the government of one of these nations has undergone fundamental changes, the other has not yet changed much, despite great effort from a recent influx of relative moderates into power there. For that matter, there are a large number of insurgency sympathizers in Iran, mostly along the hardline-Islamist faction which makes up a significant portion of that insurgency. Friendly relations are always a Good Thing, but is it truly wise to turn to such a nation for military aid of all things?

It is, of course, the prerogative of the Iraqi government. However, I do not see this turning out well for them at all.
Now why was it that that war kept going on? Could it have anything with SH trying to seize upon the instability after Iran overthrew their repressive Western supported Shah? Could it have anything to do with the US supporting Iraq(and Iran when it suited them) to keep the war going on?

And perhaps you haven't noticed that most of the terrorism in Iraq today is committed by "Sunnis" while most of the true resistance is being led by Shias. If the Iraqi and Iranian governments form an alliance it will be much easier for Iran to influence the Shia resistance which will make it easier for the US to leave. Unfortunately I have my doubts about the US ever leaving Iraq. No matter how stable it becomes. And that will lead to OBL v.2

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
   
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