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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Macbook, Macbook Pro and a visit to the Apple Store

Macbook, Macbook Pro and a visit to the Apple Store
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sharkie
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May 24, 2006, 11:38 PM
 
Hi Everyone! I'm a regular reader on macnn, but I rarely post threads since I have a lot of things to do normally, so I save my typing time for work.

I wanted to give my impressions about the macbook and MBP, since I am in the market to pick up a new laptop. I have been reading these boards, and many problems with the MBP have been reported, which has made me delay my purchase. I wanted to offer my opinion to help other readers who might be having trouble making up their minds.

First, here's my background. I have a PB12 (1.5ghz, 1.25 gb, 100 gig HD) hooked up to an external monitor, keyboard and mouse, and I previously had a 12in ibook (800mhz). I'm an academic, and I use a computer all day, everyday. I don't run programs that require a lot of processing power usually, and I am a big multitasker. I often have several windows open in word, excel, powerpoint or keynote, Texshop, safari, Virtual PC (doh!), VPN, and mail. I also do some video work (for teaching and home) and occasionally run scientific programs like mathematica, fathom and GSP, but nothing serious. The reason why I switched to mac a couple of years ago is because I was fed up with windows. Just fed up! I also used unix and linux on and off, but I like OSX the most. It works, I can multitask and do what I need to do quickly and efficiently.

At home I use my PB for iLife, making slide shows and home videos. Rendering videos into quicktime format is the most taxing thing I do to my computer. Since the PB12 isn't the fastest computer on earth, I just run it overnight.

Now finally to the hardware I demoed at the Apple store.

The new macbooks are nice! They are a great value, and the early benchmarks should make mac fans excited, especially for iLife users. The two things that made me worry about the macbook are the keyboard and glossy screen, given that I type and read a LOT on my computer. I wasn't too concerned about the differences in performance, since they essentially have the same CPUs. The integrated vs. non-integraded GPU has been heavily discussed on these boards already, so I will not comment on that here.

Keyboard comparison: The macbook keyboard is good. I am not crazy about it, but with that said, the macbook keyboard works fine. It has a nice snap to it.

The current MBP keyboard seems a little softer or lighter compared to my PB. At first I thought the keys were too mushy, so I spent some time typing on display models. Again, after a few paragraphs (of typing utter nonsense) I started to adjust to the weight of the MBP key response. They feel close to my PB keys, so overall the MBP keyboard gets higher marks from me. YMMV. Either keyboard would get the job done.

Screen comparison: I did the screen comparison by going to the Apple Store on two different occasions. On the first occasion I went to the macbook first, and played with it for a while. Then I went to the MBP. On the second trip I went to the MBP first, and spent a lot of time getting used to it, and then moved to the macbook.

The glossy screen of the macbook is wonderful for iLife. On the first trip, when I went back to the MBP, I thought the MBP was dull and grainy. Glare exists, but it isn't like the xbrites that I saw a couple of years ago in office depot. Those shiney screens were like mirrors, and made my eyes hurt right away. These macbook screens did not fatigue my eyes during the times I used them. They are great for DVDs and photos. It's like the difference between using color saturated film (fuji velvia) versus normal kodak film.

On my second trip I started with the MBP. I wanted to make sure I didn't get too excited by my first impression of the macbook. The MBP screens are also nice. The viewing angle isn't great, but the brightness and size are ideal for a multitasker like myself. Creative pros might have trouble with these screens, but luckily I'm not that picky. I can open up several programs, and have space to work. I think 15in is the ideal size for a desktop replacement. I still have my PB to carry with me to conferences or when I need to be highly mobile.

When I went back to the macbook, I noticed two things. First that the macbook glossy screens are really sharp. Text is crisp. Photos are amazing! Second, I noticed the glare. The glare wasn't terrible, but I noticed it. Overall I was less enthusiastic with the glossy screen. I still prefer to watch video and look at photos on the glossy screen. It is significantly better for that. But I cannot be certain that my eyes would feel good after a long day at the office.

Heat Check: Both books were warm. The macbook is cooler to the touch, most likely because of the casing material and lack of GPU. Alu conducts heat well, so should feel hotter.

Back in April I went to the Apple store to check out the MBP. Those first ones were little toaster ovens running OSX! I thought Black and Decker made a hostile takeover of apple, and consolidated the computing and toaster lines.

This time I tested several of the latest versions of the MBPs. I went to four different 2/2.16 ghz models (all were week 16), and exported two different quicktime videos. Under the activity monitor, the cpus were being fully used with performance on highest. I then started typing in word for about 5 minutes to check the keyboards. These MBPs were warm, but not as hot as the early ones. They all passed my heat test. The keyboards were fine. Top bar above the F keys and the bottom towards the back were warm/hot to the touch. I would say that my PB gets similarly warm/hot under load, but perhaps is cooler overall. I could hold my hand on the hottest parts indefinitely on the MBP. In comparison, the store also has a week 7 model, that felt noticeably hotter to the touch around the top and sides. That one was a Black and Decker MBP for sure.

***Conjecture: The current MBPs are running cooler. I hope others can check into this.

The QC seems better on the macbooks. The MBP seems to have a few little fit and finish issues. I am not that picky, but others may be put off by this.

Final decision: It's all about who and what. I'm going to multitask and read/write documents for many hours per week. It's part of my job. Reading documents on screen is hard enough without glare. So the glossy screen is a deal breaker. The better choice for me is a matte screen and nice keyboard. I might possibly be fine using the glossy screen, but I am not 100% sure it would be. Unfortunately the MBP costs more, and I will be paying for things I won't fully use, such as the x1600. But I know for sure that I can use the keyboard and screen comfortably for 40-60 hours per week. Over the life of the computer, it's worth it for me. I figure the thousands of hours of work I do in that time, I might as well be comfortable. Work is hard enough when you like it!

I suppose there is a niche market for people like me, who want nice screens and keyboards and don't need lots of power. But we tend to be working, and can afford the higher price MBP. So in the US, they want us to be rapacious consumers go up a model. I don't want to pay the higher price, but oh well. When I move up to FCE and perhaps start playing games, I may utilize the capabilities of the MBP more. Plus I can encode vids faster, so it's not like I'm upset over having a faster computer.

If you use your computer for a lot of reading, writing and multitasking, my sense is that the matte screen and keyboard on the MBP is better after a long day. If you're a student, I would think that the macbook is perfect, unless you want to play games. But even if you want to play games, why not get a PSP or game console for a lot less money. Plus when you are in the library studying, you won't be tempted to play Doom 3. So you'll get better grades, and playing games will come with far less guilt Perhaps a better option is to get a used ibook and an iMac.

For the consumer that uses their laptop for email, movies, browsing, iLife, photography,... the glossy screen seems like a winner.

That's all for now. Happy computing!

Sharkie
     
Jason
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May 25, 2006, 03:06 AM
 
Hey sharkie, nice review you have there. Although I am not in the exact same position as you ,I am in one that is close enough! I personally am looking for a new computer, I dont HAVE to get a laptop, but with uni and all that, it will be a bonus. I am studying BA Graphic Design, so having the Macbook with intergrated graphics is a really big let down for me. I pretty much have to shell out the extra money now to get the MBP, however at the end of the day the MBP for a Graphic Designer is going to be a far better investment.

Thanks for the review! I found the info on the glossy screens v MBP screen, and the info on the keyboards the most helpful! so thanks. =]

Jason.
"Amidst all the hype of modern design and computers, we have remained true by generating the majority of our designs by hand, viewing the computer as a tool and not letting it dictate our designs." - Ames Design.
     
azt33
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May 25, 2006, 05:12 AM
 
Very nice review! Thanks for sharing, as I am also deciding between a MB and a 15" MBP... I saw the MB yesterday and really like the screen, but I was not very fond about the keyboard, or the bezel around the screen. It is pretty thick and I am not sure if that will annoy me in the future. Or I should just get the black one.
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Maflynn
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May 25, 2006, 07:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by sharkie
***Conjecture: The current MBPs are running cooler. I hope others can check into this.

The QC seems better on the macbooks. The MBP seems to have a few little fit and finish issues. I am not that picky, but others may be put off by this.
I've seen more posts (here and elsewhere) compaining about the excessive heat from the MBP and QC issues. Some of the complaints range from the case not matching up on the corners, to uneven illumination. Since I don't own the MBP I cannot comment, but the heat certainly is an issue and it seems the current crop of MBPs are still suffering from that based upon new posts I see over in the discussion forums at apple.

Originally Posted by sharkie
Final decision: It's all about who and what. I'm going to multitask and read/write documents for many hours per week. It's part of my job. Reading documents on screen is hard enough without glare. So the glossy screen is a deal breaker. The better choice for me is a matte screen and nice keyboard.
I can see why the screen could be a deal breaker, heck I thought the same thing but then I tried it out, unlike you it wasn't an issue. this is all personal perference. I've had my new macbook since sunday and I've used it almost everynight. Yes its toasty around 60c, with a cpu load its around 67 to the mid 70c. Lower then the 90c temps if I've been reading about the MBP nonetheless 60c still pretty warm to have on your lap.

There's an apple KB article about the heat of these beasts and recommeding that you don't use it on your lap because of the heat.

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skyman
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May 25, 2006, 10:26 AM
 
The only reason I went with the MBP was because I need the 15" screen space for all the apps I use and because of my aging eyes.

Otherwise, the MB is a MUCH MUCH better value for the money.
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sharkie  (op)
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May 25, 2006, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jason
Hey sharkie, nice review you have there. Although I am not in the exact same position as you ,I am in one that is close enough! I personally am looking for a new computer, I dont HAVE to get a laptop, but with uni and all that, it will be a bonus. I am studying BA Graphic Design, so having the Macbook with intergrated graphics is a really big let down for me. I pretty much have to shell out the extra money now to get the MBP, however at the end of the day the MBP for a Graphic Designer is going to be a far better investment.

Thanks for the review! I found the info on the glossy screens v MBP screen, and the info on the keyboards the most helpful! so thanks. =]

Jason.
Hi Jason! You could get a iMac or the upcoming Mac Pro and get a used ibook or macbook down the road. The reason being that you usually get more bang per $ with desktops and a larger screen. Of course you might need to be able to run your graphic design programs on the go, so a MBP is a no brainer. Well is a great machine, so even though it costs more you'll enjoy it. Good luck!
     
sharkie  (op)
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May 25, 2006, 12:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by azt33
Very nice review! Thanks for sharing, as I am also deciding between a MB and a 15" MBP... I saw the MB yesterday and really like the screen, but I was not very fond about the keyboard, or the bezel around the screen. It is pretty thick and I am not sure if that will annoy me in the future. Or I should just get the black one.
I feel your pain! It was tough decision. Initially I didn't like the macbook keyboard, but after typing a couple of paragraphs, I got used to it. Perhaps you should keep trying it until your fingers adjust? The black looks very cool in person. Also if you don't type all day, everyday, then my sense is that the keyboard is a non-issue. I think playing with the computers for a while helped me decide, so I certainly suggest going to a store and doing significant test drives. The macbook is a fantastic deal. Good luck with your decision! You really can't go wrong here.

Sharkie
     
Equals
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May 27, 2006, 05:36 PM
 
Just received a 17" MBP with a glossy sceen. I went with the glossy screen because I present a lot to brides for wedding photography. So far - heat above the function keys are hottest when the battery is charging, once 100% it cools down significantly. Other than that this thing is perfect! Aperature is snappy and photoshop is very close to being as fast as my old 1.5ghz 12" PB.

Man I love this thing . . .
     
Dave Hagan
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May 27, 2006, 06:51 PM
 
btollenaar: How even is the illumination?
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May 27, 2006, 09:26 PM
 
btollenaar

How do you like the glossy screen? I just saw the macbooks at the apple store and they are NICE! I really like the glossy screen but I can see how it could be annoying in a lot of situations.

Is the gain in screen vibrance worth the reflections IYO?
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Simon
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May 28, 2006, 07:01 AM
 
Since this thread is bout MBP vs. MB let me show you what I just measured with xBench (yes, I know it sucks) on my 2.0GHz MBP/2GB RAM/7200 RPM HDD and my 2.0GHz BlackBook/1GB RAM/5400 RPM HDD:

Code:
Results 56.78 System Info Xbench Version 1.2 System Version 10.4.6 (8I1119) Physical RAM 2048 MB Model MacBookPro1,1 Drive Type ST910021AS CPU Test 70.59 Thread Test 194.70 Memory Test 123.40 System 120.74 Stream 126.18 Quartz Graphics Test 51.49 OpenGL Graphics Test 136.55 User Interface Test 27.31 Disk Test 30.76 Sequential 40.62 Uncached Write 19.46 11.95 MB/sec [4K blocks] Uncached Write 80.40 45.49 MB/sec [256K blocks] Uncached Read 43.43 12.71 MB/sec [4K blocks] Uncached Read 86.00 43.22 MB/sec [256K blocks] Random 24.75 Uncached Write 7.79 0.82 MB/sec [4K blocks] Uncached Write 80.61 25.80 MB/sec [256K blocks] Uncached Read 83.42 0.59 MB/sec [4K blocks] Uncached Read 113.40 21.04 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Code:
Results 54.58 System Info Xbench Version 1.2 System Version 10.4.6 (8I2025) Physical RAM 1024 MB Model MacBook1,1 Drive Type FUJITSU MHV2080BHPL CPU Test 72.39 Thread Test 196.44 Memory Test 123.33 System 121.36 Stream 125.36 Quartz Graphics Test 53.77 OpenGL Graphics Test 216.31 User Interface Test 20.53 Disk Test 34.12 Sequential 41.80 Uncached Write 26.15 16.06 MB/sec [4K blocks] Uncached Write 44.87 25.39 MB/sec [256K blocks] Uncached Read 52.23 15.29 MB/sec [4K blocks] Uncached Read 62.40 31.36 MB/sec [256K blocks] Random 28.83 Uncached Write 10.81 1.14 MB/sec [4K blocks] Uncached Write 58.82 18.83 MB/sec [256K blocks] Uncached Read 59.72 0.42 MB/sec [4K blocks] Uncached Read 80.04 14.85 MB/sec [256K blocks]
I can see only three significant differences. The others are probably all identical within the error margin of xBench tests.

OpenGL and UI show the MBP being ahead, but I guess those two are strongly related. I'm actually surprised the MB's GMA 950 didn't get blown out of the water by the MBP's X1600. The difference is a mere +58%. I would have expected a lot more.

The other main difference is that the 7200 RPM HDD is only better when you transfer large data chunks. I think this agrees with what BareFeats discovered some weeks ago. It actually performs worse when you transfer smaller bits of data. And form my experience with my MBP and MB, the 7200 RPM HDD is really noisy compared to the inaudible 5400 RPM drive in the MB.

I'm quite surprised the MBP didn't do better against the MB - especially when you consider I paid roughly $1200 more for the MBP. And it would be even more if you consider I could have taken the white MB (if I woulnd't mind the fact that it looks like a toilet bowl).
     
Simon
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May 28, 2006, 07:07 AM
 
BTW, I almost forgot to mention this:

The MB runs hotter than the MBP!

According to CoreDuoTemp, my MB's idle CPU temp is ~69C while my MBP's idle temp is ~58C. I'd say that is a significant difference. OTOH you wouldn't feel it - the MB's case doesn't feel as warm as the MBP's although it's clearly warmer than my old 1.33GHz iBook. I guess the plastic case really does not transport as much of the CPU's dissipated power to the bottom case compared to the Al. That would also (at least partly) explain why my g/f's Core Duo ThinkPad (which is now on sale btw) feels less hot on the bottom than my 2GHz MBP.
     
sharkie  (op)
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May 28, 2006, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon
BTW, I almost forgot to mention this:

The MB runs hotter than the MBP!

According to CoreDuoTemp, my MB's idle CPU temp is ~69C while my MBP's idle temp is ~58C. I'd say that is a significant difference. OTOH you wouldn't feel it - the MB's case doesn't feel as warm as the MBP's although it's clearly warmer than my old 1.33GHz iBook. I guess the plastic case really does not transport as much of the CPU's dissipated power to the bottom case compared to the Al. That would also (at least partly) explain why my g/f's Core Duo ThinkPad (which is now on sale btw) feels less hot on the bottom than my 2GHz MBP.
Good posts!
Looking at the benchmarks at other sites as well as your test, it seems like the main differences in the MB and MBP are the "little things": GPU (ok, maybe not little to everyone), keyboard, matte vs. glossy, screen size, express card slot, illuminated keyboard, ... These may or may not be deal breakers. It all depends on how the computer will be used.

Performance is similar, which seems to indicate that CPU trumps all else, unless one does 3D. The MB is the deal of the lineup. Now if only Apple offered a matte screen option...

sharkie
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May 28, 2006, 11:56 AM
 
Obviously Apple wants to separate the "pro" line from the non-Pro line, but if the MacBook would have supported the 30" display at full resolution, I would have bought that instead of the 15" MBP. The smaller size would have made portability better.

However, with the 2.16GHz processor option, the 7200 rpm drive, and the dedicated 256MB of VRAM, I was able to completely replace my dual 2.5GHz G5 with the MBP - as opposed to just getting a new laptop to use with a desktop.
     
Equals
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May 28, 2006, 01:09 PM
 
The illumination was a little brighter along the bottom of the screen as soon as I fired it up but after it was on for a bit (15min) the illumination is incredibily even - pretty much perfect.

I was VERY nervous about the glossy screen since a mac store is over 3hrs away and I wasn't too thrilled with the Vaios at Best Buy. I must say it's exceeded my expectations. There is glare, I won't lie to you - it is however not so much of a problem for me on this machine. If I could find a better way of describing it, too hard and very subjective. I just feel that the bright screen along with a crisp clear image (definitely more so than the matte screen) of what's being displayed - this is the screen for me.
     
GrimStranger
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May 28, 2006, 09:02 PM
 
I too went to a nearby Apple store to check out those sexy MBs even though I'm happy with my MBP. I was actually considering a downgrade since the only reason I bought this Mac is to have a computer to use when I'm in the couch, bed or on a toliet. I didn't want another Windows machine because it didn't make sense due to various reasons.

Anyway, there is one thing I want to add about the glossy screen. I don't remember to what extend can the MB tilt back its screen. I recall the angle to be similar to MBPs. If that's the case, then the flare might be a bigger problem.

Because of the tilting limitation, you won't be able to look straight at the screen when you have the machine on your lap. And I recall I noticed the flare whiling tilting the MBs at the Apple store.

YMMV, it's just something that made me think twice before I put my MBP on the craigslist.
     
aaronmarks
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May 28, 2006, 10:41 PM
 
I just can't convince myself to purchase a MacBook Pro at the moment due to the lack of firewire 800, a dual-layer DVD burner, and a PC-Express 54 slot. I need to firewire 800 since I'm an IT professional that has to do lots of external HD transfers, and the dual-layer DVD burner has come in handy more than a few times on my current PowerBook, but the PC-Express 54 slot should be standard so that you can fit a Compact Flash card in the side of the MBP. Of course, the current heat issues also bother me, but I could probably live with that for now.

If the MBP doesn't come together by the next-gen then I'll probably just purchase a MacBook for the time being. I can't justifiy spending any more money since the keyboard doesn't bug me in the least, and I don't think that the glossy screen would really get in my way. Not to mention that I love how easy it is to replace the Hard Drives on the MacBook. The MBP's are a lot easier than the PB, but the MacBook is a dream come true to Mac laptop users (as far as servicing).
     
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May 28, 2006, 11:22 PM
 
The 17" MacBook Pro has one Firewire 800 port and a Dual-Layer Superdrive, although it still doesn't have the Expresscard-54 slot. I imagine they'll fix the MacBook Pros up in the next revision with Memrom, Dual Layer across the entire line, and maybe the 15 inch will get a Firewire 800. However, I highly doubt we'll be seeing Expresscard 54 anytime soon, if ever.
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Simon
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May 29, 2006, 03:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by GrimStranger
I don't remember to what extend can the MB tilt back its screen. I recall the angle to be similar to MBPs. If that's the case, then the flare might be a bigger problem.
My MB can tilt the screen further back than my MBP. I'd say by about ten degrees, but I didn't actually measure that. The MB can't tilt back as far as the 12" PB (that must have gone to at least 140 degrees!), but it can certainly tilt back substantially more then my MBP. Maybe about as much as my 15" Al PowerBook G4.
     
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May 29, 2006, 11:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon
Code:
Results 56.78 System Info Xbench Version 1.2 System Version 10.4.6 (8I1119) Physical RAM 2048 MB Model MacBookPro1,1 Quartz Graphics Test 51.49 OpenGL Graphics Test 136.55
Code:
Results 54.58 System Info Xbench Version 1.2 System Version 10.4.6 (8I2025) Physical RAM 1024 MB Model MacBook1,1 Quartz Graphics Test 53.77 OpenGL Graphics Test 216.31
OpenGL and UI show the MBP being ahead, but I guess those two are strongly related. I'm actually surprised the MB's GMA 950 didn't get blown out of the water by the MBP's X1600. The difference is a mere +58%. I would have expected a lot more.
As far as I can see from the tests, the MacBook is actually 58% faster than the MacBookPro! This is in accordance with the recent ArsTechnica test in xBench as well, and shows how useless xBench really is. In real world tests done by Barefeats, the MacBook even lost to the last iBook revision! Tests by MacWorld also confirms how bad the MacBook graphics are in real world tests.
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Simon
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May 29, 2006, 11:54 AM
 
You're right. I mixed them up. Sorry about that.

Either xBench is a complete piece of crap (likely) or the only performance difference between the MB and MBP is the GPU. Somehow, I doubt that however, because BareFeats just did some tests and concluded that there are huge differences between the two in iMovie and iDVD:
http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd4.html
     
Simon
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May 31, 2006, 02:59 AM
 
Hehe, BareFeats has redone their tests because they claim the first MB they used wasn't running at full speed due to some fault.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd4.html

Now their results indicate that apart from GPU related stuff, the MB's performance is basically equal to the MBP's.
     
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May 31, 2006, 03:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon
Hehe, BareFeats has redone their tests because they claim the first MB they used wasn't running at full speed due to some fault.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd4.html

Now their results indicate that apart from GPU related stuff, the MB's performance is basically equal to the MBP's.
It's no surprise that the CPU tests were OK on the MacBook, but the big issue for most people was the GPU related test suite. However, it seems after the second test of the same GPU related benches, they haven't changed much... In other words, as we knew already, the GPU in the MacBook sux:





"IMPORTANT NOTE: The first 13" MacBook we tested had a very low performing Core Duo CPU for some reason. We replaced it with another 13" MacBook and reran the tests pictured below. There was gain in the UT2004 results but it's still much slower than the MacBook Pros (and PowerBook)."
( Last edited by Eug Wanker; May 31, 2006 at 03:19 AM. )
     
GrimStranger
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May 31, 2006, 03:28 AM
 
I don't get it. In the iDVD & iMovie test, why does the MB beat the MBP in every test except one? I mean, everything except the GPU is the same under the hood, isn't it?
     
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May 31, 2006, 03:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by GrimStranger
I don't get it. In the iDVD & iMovie test, why does the MB beat the MBP in every test except one? I mean, everything except the GPU is the same under the hood, isn't it?
I think they have an underperforming MBP.

Actually, the performance of the MB is similar to the MBP in every CPU test. Ideally, they should be almost identical though.
     
Simon
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May 31, 2006, 05:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by GrimStranger
I don't get it. In the iDVD & iMovie test, why does the MB beat the MBP in every test except one? I mean, everything except the GPU is the same under the hood, isn't it?
The differences you see in the updated benchmarks are not significant. They are probably of the same order as the differences you see when you repeat the benchmarks several times. Both apps are CPU dependent and so it comes as no surprise they both perform equal.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd4.html

"NEW" CONCLUSION
Our revised results with our second 13" MacBook Pro show that it is every bit the equal of a 15" MacBook Pro running at the same 2GHz clore clock speed -- even with a slower 5400rpm hard drive.
The only significant performance difference you'll see between the two is when apps rely on the GPU or when you transfer large chunks of data and have the 7200 RPM disk in the MBP.
     
sharkie  (op)
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May 31, 2006, 04:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by GrimStranger
I don't get it. In the iDVD & iMovie test, why does the MB beat the MBP in every test except one? I mean, everything except the GPU is the same under the hood, isn't it?
Could it be that the MBP has an underclocked GPU, so that in 2D rendering (iMovie, iDVD) the macbook actually is a bit faster?

It's just too bad that I wasn't sure I'd like the glossy screen for long days at work. The MB is such a great bargain for the performance it delivers! I guess I'll stand by my opinion that if you don't need to type documents all day long or need the GPU, get the macbook (and maybe an ACD).

Sharkie
--
PB12, 1.5ghz, 1.25 gig RAM, 100 gig HD
MBP15, 2.17ghz, 2 gig RAM, 100 gig HD
     
   
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