[secretdonkey]

1. I have a new Airport Extreme base station, with the spiffy 802.11n network speed. Right now my MacBook (Core 2 duo, capable of talking "n") is the only wireless device on the network (I have an external HD connected via the Airport's USB port, and a G4 connected via Airport's ethernet).

I have been wanting to pick up an Airport Express to use the AirTunes feature only - i.e., the Express would be hooked up to a stereo only and would only need to 'talk' to my MacBook. As a 802.11g device, it's my understanding that introducing it to the mix will bring the whole network down to "g" speed, so that my MacBook will no longer enjoy "n" level network speed. Is this true, and is there a workaround possible, given that the 'n' Base Station and the 'g' Express will not need to communicate with each other?

2. I read something that lead me to believe that enabling WPA or WEP protection on my network will slow down network speed. Is it true that I could gain network speed if I gave up the security?

I want to optimize the speed at which the MacBook will 'talk' with the external HD (USB is a limiting factor here, I know) and the G4, and am curious how the above things might influence that.

Thanks in advance for input.

[ghporter]

1) I cannot express an opinion about real world results, but Apple says that the N AirPort Extreme Base Station WILL drop to G speeds if you add a G device to the wireless network.

2) From personal experience as well as an understanding of the "nuts and bolts" of the encryption process, you "may" see a slight lag when you first connect via wireless using encryption like WEP or WPA, but it would be trivial. Likewise, any processing load for encrypting/decrypting the data would also be trivial-you would NOT notice it. This assumes everything is working correctly and properly configured, of course. You will NOT gain noticeable speed by leaving your wireless network open to intrusion and interception. And do NOT use "WEP." It is NOT secure and is almost trivial to break. Use WPA and use a long, random passphrase with it that does NOT include real words. This makes it incredibly difficult for anyone to even begin to break the WPA encryption. The ONLY successful exploit against WPA was actually against the algorithm that converts the passphrase to a real key, and it only worked on short, stupid ("this is my passphrase") passphrases.

Your networked drive will be the controlling factor in how much speed you get out of the system, either the drive itself or the USB connection. I can't say which way it'll go, but I get really good speeds from my USB drive, while my networked (via ethernet) drive seems quite slow in comparison. (Duh! 100Mbps via ethernet versus a theoretical max of 480Mbps for USB 2.0...)

[secretdonkey]

Thanks for the quick response!

I've read elsewhere on these forums that Apple will likely have better integration of 'n' and 'g' network devices as time goes on. I wonder if these improvements will come by way of free software updates or if it will be a matter of having to buy new hardware.

I am inclined to avoid the Airport Express for now. Read/write rates to that external HD are already too slow for my liking. Any thoughts as to how Apple's wireless product line is likely to evolve? Should I go ahead and buy an Express with confidence that a free software patch to fix the n/g issue will be forthcoming? Or is an 'n' enabled Airport Express in the pipe that I should wait for? Or something else?

Thanks for the info on WPA/WEP. I am indeed using WPA and will continue to do so... even though I feel bad for frequently taking advantage of unsecured bandwidth while out and about, and sometimes I think I'd feel less guilty if I "shared the love" also!

[dj_frankle]

Being quite new to all of this, how does the following scenario sound:
- Airport Extreme (set as for eg 192.168.1.1) plugged into modem and running ONLY 802.11n signal on 5Ghz and specific channel
- Airport Express (set as 192.168.2.1) plugged into Extreme via ethernet and used as another base station to run 802.11g/b on different channel

Will this give you 2 separate wireless networks that will talk to each other and allow newer N-based units to run at their potential?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by dj_frankle 

Being quite new to all of this, how does the following scenario sound:
- Airport Extreme (set as for eg 192.168.1.1) plugged into modem and running ONLY 802.11n signal on 5Ghz and specific channel
- Airport Express (set as 192.168.2.1) plugged into Extreme via ethernet and used as another base station to run 802.11g/b on different channel

Will this give you 2 separate wireless networks that will talk to each other and allow newer N-based units to run at their potential?

Yes! This is exactly how you get the best performance with all devices.

Apple offers some details on how to set this scenario up properly in their guide on pages 47 and 48.

[dj_frankle]

Yay me, first post and I am on the money! I have only had my Mac for about 6 months and have only recently (like 3 days ago) heard and learnt about the AirPort Express and what is capable of and I must say I was very impressed. So impressed that yesterday I purchased one to replace my Siemens SpeedStream 6520, plugged it in this morning and already I have noticed an increase in speed. I don't need an Extreme yet as I am only running a PowerBook G4 1.5GHz ... will be getting one when I eventually update ... or buy the misses a Black MacBook

[tavin64]

The 802.11n specification is able to operate in 2.4GHz and 5GHz frequencies. The only thing is that some manufacturers only allow for one in the routers. Some multiband routers allow for the router to work in B+G+N mode by just setting the freq to 2.4GHz. And then if you just run in N mode it switches to 5GHz. Same way as the A B G routers work. 802.11a also runs in 5GHz but only 5GHz alone.

[Drakino]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Anyone know of an N router that doesn't tell you "go buy our older G router too" and instead does both 2.4 and 5ghz simultanesouly? The 2.4 band in my area is getting crowded, and since I lost one of my Airport Expresses to a power surge, I want to replace it with an N based router that can move my laptop off the crowded 2.4 space. But also still be able to use my remaining Express as a wireless music streaming solution, along with my Wii, DS and PSP + friends with older wireless.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Drakino 

Anyone know of an N router that doesn't tell you "go buy our older G router too" and instead does both 2.4 and 5ghz simultanesouly? The 2.4 band in my area is getting crowded, and since I lost one of my Airport Expresses to a power surge, I want to replace it with an N based router that can move my laptop off the crowded 2.4 space. But also still be able to use my remaining Express as a wireless music streaming solution, along with my Wii, DS and PSP + friends with older wireless.

The AirPort Extreme allows you to do that with your AP Express. The very image you quoted shows how. Just attach the Express to the Extreme's LAN port and set it up as indicated in Apple's guide (see my post above). The Extreme will then offer an n network while the Express will continue to offer g (and b if you like), in addition AirTunes will allow you to stream music to the Express.

[Drakino]

Originally Posted by Simon 

The AirPort Extreme allows you to do that with your AP Express. The very image you quoted shows how. Just attach the Express to the Extreme's LAN port and set it up as indicated in Apple's guide (see my post above).

The problem what that solution is that it only works if I can wire the Express in, and then at that point the solution becomes worthless to me. I need to be able to run the Express wirelessly for where I want to put it for streaming music. I use the Express with a set of USB powered speakers to be able to just plug it in wherever.

I was tricked by the "dual band" wording of some of the reviews out there on the Apple product. And looking at the other vendors, Linksys doesn't currently sell a 5ghz N product at all but the future WRT600n should offer it though, no idea on running both at the same time though. DLink has a DIR-855 router coming that does advertise both usable at the same time, but no word on a ship date. Netgear, I couldn't find anything about a 5ghz product from them.

It looks like I might grab the Wireless-N Nfiniti Dual Band router from Buffalo. I'm trying to confirm though that the router will do N at 5ghz as well as A, but their site isn't absolutely clear on that point.

I was hoping N would get a ton of people off 2.4ghz, but it seems so many companies are shipping 2.4ghz only Draft equipment. The 2.4ghz space is already horrible for it's small selection of interference free channels, and N will just make it worse with the wider frequencies it can use. While Apple's product does do 5ghz, it doesn't do it in a way to allow people to migrate. For people upgrading I suppose thats not a big problem since they will still have their older G equipment, but for people like me using it to replace a broken wireless device, it doesn't help.

[Drakino]

As a followup, the labeling on the package is a bit misleading here too. It states (on the bottom, where mac boxes normally have product specs):

"Support for 2.4 and 5ghz operation..."
"Compatible with 802.11a/b/g-enabled computers and networks."

I've submitted feedback to Apple that the wording should be:

"Support for 2.4 OR 5ghz operation..."
"Compatible with 802.11a OR 802.11b/g-enabled computers and networks."

That way the wording is a bit clearer that the product can only operate on one of the two frequencies and provide compatibility with only A or B/G equipment, and not both at the same time.

[ghporter]

Actually, the wording is accurate, it's just incomplete. It needs an asterisk at least (with the "either/or" part mentioned prominently), but it DOES support 2.4GHz AND 5GHz-just not both at the same time.

[Drakino]

Based on the (handy built in) dictionary, "and" was a poor choice if they meant "but not both at the same time" to be implied. Using the thesaurus for "and" shows why:

together with, along with, with, as well as, in addition to, also; besides, furthermore;

Support for 2.4ghz together with 5ghz operation just leads people to believe both can work together. Same with 2.4ghz along with 5ghz, and same for 2.4ghz with 5ghz, etc...

From the boolean point of view, and means both have to be true at the same time for the statement to work. Where as or in boolean would only require one to be true to make the entire statement true.

It's really just evidence that a major in english didn't proof read the box, or they did without knowing the full specs of the device. The same can be said that they likely didn't have a programming background. Clearly someone there knew the limits as shown by the diagrams on the setup guide inside the box though.

The only reason I bring it up here is hopefully to prevent someone else from making the same mistake. When your in the store looking at tons of products, it's not easy to crack them open and flip through the manual to see how they work. You have to depend on the box, and in this case, the box is not accurate.

I hate to be nit-picky about it, but this caused me to waste time setting up a product that didn't meet my needs, and having to return it. Yes, I'll fully admit I should have researched it deeper, but from the quick research I did do, it seemed possible it would work for me. To prevent a similar mistake, I downloaded the full manuals to all the products I was considering to find one that would work.

[ghporter]

..."as well as"... 'Nuff said?

It's MARKETING that drives package information, not engineers. The most important and useful thing to do is probably to complain to Apple about it.

[ctj]

Originally Posted by dj_frankle 

Being quite new to all of this, how does the following scenario sound:
- Airport Extreme (set as for eg 192.168.1.1) plugged into modem and running ONLY 802.11n signal on 5Ghz and specific channel
- Airport Express (set as 192.168.2.1) plugged into Extreme via ethernet and used as another base station to run 802.11g/b on different channel

Will this give you 2 separate wireless networks that will talk to each other and allow newer N-based units to run at their potential?

With the setup as you describe, you'll have two totally different subnets going (192.168.1.x and 192.168.2.x). I suggest you set it up so that the Express is a DHCP client (but can still act as a base station). That way everything is still on the same subnet, but you have your two separate wireless networks.

[darcybaston]

I've got an alternate "networking confusion" question if you don't mind me putting it in here?

I've used an Actiontech DSL modem in bridged mode to a Linksys WRT54G router that was configured with my ISP account's static IP and DNS server information, for years. All I ever had to do was tell the Actiontech to go into bridged mode, put a cable between the ethernet port of the Actiontech to the WAN port of the Linksys, and told the Linksys of the static IP and the DNS servers. Then I ran an ethernet cable from port #1 of the Linksys to my G5 and set it in network prefs to grab an IP using DHCP. It's worked perfectly for years.

I just got the new Airport Extreme base station and can't get the thing to connect to my ISP similarily. I tell it it's connecting to a LAN, I tell it the static IP and I give it two DNS server numbers. I also give it a Domain value. I leave my tower in DHCP mode. The tower gets an IP from the base station, but the base station never seems to connect to my ISP, or won't serve content as I can't do anything internet related on the tower.

I'm stumped! The base station also keeps asking for a Router Address. What's that? I've never had to specify that before on the Linksys. Is there a default/dummy value I have to put in there?

[darcybaston]

I fixed it. Turns out what Apple refers to as "Router Address", is "Gateway" on the Linksys. Once I got that IP into the Apple device, it got online just fine. Phew!