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iBorg · Sep 23, 2002, 01:57 AM

We all know that the rumors on the internet sites are about as accurate as my "system" for winning in Las Vegas, but powerpage.org's post this early am is the kind of powerbook release that I've been dreaming of:

"The PowerPage had the chance to catch up with a little bird this weekend that told us some interesting things about the new PowerBooks that will eventually replace the current 667/800 MHz models. A source confirmed that the DVD-R SuperDrive will finally squeeze into the svelte Titanium G4 enclosure. The coveted optical drive was put on a diet and has just been rubber stamped for inclusion on TiBook v.4 after losing about 2mm of height. SuperDrives may only appear in the high-end configuration, so start saving those nickles and dimes.

The good news is that the top end model could eclipse even the 1022 MHz PowerBook G4 mules in testing now. G4 silicon running as fast as 1200 MHz (1.2 GHz) has been spotted in the titanium enclosure. The new TiBook will reportedly feature a re-designed motherboard with native Bluetooth support and an updated cooling system. The jury is still out on whether audio and video will get a bump, but one thing's for sure, the new PowerBooks will only boot into Mac OS X. "

Added to the unreliable nature of rumors, this item also gave no time frame for release. But it should be within the realms of possibility, right? As I've posted before, although the current Ti 800 is arguably "snappy," it lags so far behind even the bottom of the line desktop, that it's embarrassing - and that doesn't take into account that it has only 1/2 the processors that all the current desktops have!

C'mon, Apple! We want this new powerbook! (And without the ridiculous "paint chipping" that has plagued the Ti's since their release!!!)

iBorg

seanyepez · Sep 23, 2002, 09:46 AM

The 1.2-gigahertz chip rumor has to be false. Apple often times uses higher-frequency CPU's to test a design.

Remember when Apple tried to release 500-megahertz G4 Power Macs? They weren't able to ship them. If Apple tries to do the same with 1.2-gigahertz G4's, they'll face serious pitfalls when production capacity is eclipsed in entirety by demand.

wataru · Sep 23, 2002, 10:04 AM

Plus, isn't the part about only booting to OS X a bit suspicious? This update is supposedly coming out pretty soon, and Apple said they won't be dropping 9 until early next year...

iBorg · Sep 23, 2002, 10:23 AM

Actually, O'Grady's site said "...the new PowerBooks that will eventually replace the current 667/800 MHz models." The info about "...will only boot into Mac OS X" would indicate that these won't be ready until January, when Apple has said that all Macs will ship as such.

I'll just have to keep using the 'ol Pismo for a little longer. If it wouldn't void my AppleCare warranty (that has another year left), I'd go for the G4 processor upgrade to get a little better speed in OS X meanwhile........

iBorg

gumby5647 · Sep 23, 2002, 02:26 PM

There's no way we're going to see anything over 1Ghz in the next speed bump. Even still, I think 933Mhz is what's coming up next

msykes · Sep 23, 2002, 04:24 PM

I for one think this rumor is perfectly reasonable, but as others have alluded to, just not immediately. Sounds like not the next update, but the one after that. No reason Apple shouldn't be testing things out that far ahead... of course by then it could sport a 2.7GHz G5 :-)

speedraycer · Sep 23, 2002, 06:56 PM

what's the melting point of titanium? 'cuz this damn ti800 gets pretty hot- id luv to c what a 1.25g would feel like. i'm guessing insulation and water cooling would add 1lb to the firey tibook

legionare · Sep 23, 2002, 08:03 PM

Without dual battery bay? Apple's not getting my money.

urrl5201 · Sep 23, 2002, 08:36 PM

Maybe it is getting thru to Apple that they are obviously looking pretty silly making MHZ baby steps while they are over run speed wise. I wouldn't be surprised at an unexpected larger Mhz speed increase in the Ti.

Kaner · Sep 23, 2002, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by legionare:
Without dual battery bay? Apple's not getting my money.

i highly doubt theres any way there will be a dual battery capability, theres just no room, and i also highly doubt they will make the dvd drive removable, think about it. there is always electricity around somewhere...

KidRed · Sep 23, 2002, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by iBorg:

Added to the unreliable nature of rumors, this item also gave no time frame for release. But it should be within the realms of possibility, right? As I've posted before, although the current Ti 800 is arguably "snappy," it lags so far behind even the bottom of the line desktop, that it's embarrassing - and that doesn't take into account that it has only 1/2 the processors that all the current desktops have!

C'mon, Apple! We want this new powerbook! (And without the ridiculous "paint chipping" that has plagued the Ti's since their release!!!)

iBorg

Lags so far behind? Have you seen any of the barefeats speed tests? The 667 was going good against the dual 800. Granted the 1.2ghz just shipped but i wouldn't say the current models are lagging way behind but they do need to be upgraded.

iBorg · Sep 24, 2002, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by KidRed:

Lags so far behind? Have you seen any of the barefeats speed tests? The 667 was going good against the dual 800. Granted the 1.2ghz just shipped but i wouldn't say the current models are lagging way behind but they do need to be upgraded.

Yes, lags far behind. When the "bottom of the line" desktop has had dual 867's for awhile now, Apple can hardly market its current Ti's as "desktop replacements." Now try comparing that to top-of-the-line Dual 1.25's towers......a whole different category of speed, 56% faster with one process tied behind its back! And if the Ti's must be so much slower in speed, then the premium price is unjustified. These are "apples to apples" comparisons, folks! And we're not talking "MHz myth" here - the current Ti's are now "slow" by Apple's standards!

Previous generations powerbooks (Pismos, Lombards) kept within striking distance of top-shelf Mac desktops. This is no longer the case - unless we see a major speed bump real soon!

iBorg

7Macfreak · Sep 24, 2002, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by iBorg:

~snip~

iBorg

what if apple doesnt want that? ;-)

but anyway.... i think(and HOPE!) today or tomorrow we *should* see new portables.

inquisito · Sep 24, 2002, 10:19 AM

apples to apples?
NEVERMIND THAT!
Look at the barefeats performance comparison for Dual Mac to Dual PC, PC Desktop's are approaching 3Ghz and laptop's not that much far behind - 2.2Ghz at least.
I know all about the Mhz myth, so don't start that one! I'm thinking about the bang for buck ratio. You can go on all day about how much more 'efficient' the G4 is, but you now get much more bang for buck from x86 hardware.
Apple need faster stuff now! Either that or a massive price cut they can't afford. We need > Ghz portables (Including the iBook) and minmum 2Ghz desktops before christmas in order to close the performance gap.

Ryu · Sep 24, 2002, 12:41 PM

Actually, Motorola's roadmap indicates that the new upgrade of portable Apollo will go upto 1.2Ghz but oh well... as this roadmap doesn't really mean anything and strategically, it's quite difficult to assume such a radical speed jump of their portable line, I believe that the next PB will reach 1Ghz max.

ae86_16v · Sep 29, 2002, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by speedraycer:
what's the melting point of titanium? 'cuz this damn ti800 gets pretty hot- id luv to c what a 1.25g would feel like. i'm guessing insulation and water cooling would add 1lb to the firey tibook

LOL

by the way

PC's will hit 3ghz by Dec., PC Laptops already has 2.4ghz.

What about the fact that it is going to eat a lot more batteries if the Ti starts up to 1.2ghz?

Also keep in mind, Apple advertises 5hr battery life...anything that is close to it is only while running OS9...I don't know how they are going to make that claim with OS X.

Kestral · Sep 29, 2002, 07:36 PM

Ok, I am bumping this thread because unlike on AppleInsider where there's a Future Hardware forum to speculate about upcoming machines, there is none here. Plus, I am only interested in the Powerbook G4.

So what's the scoop at this point? I've sold my iBook 500, but there is no way no how I am going to buy the currently available models, as according to the upgrade cycle, the TiBooks are the next on deck for a refresh.

As well, there are some things I am unhappy with the current models. My main beef has to do with the combo drive. An 8x CD burner? I find that pretty underpowered. Of course, I am comparing this to the desktops, but I think that even 16x CD burning capability on the next PBG4 is not too much to ask for. I'd be interested to know what others think of this

So at this point, will there be a new form factor? Or will Apple continue to attempt to milk this one for at least one more generation?

1.2 ghz on the top end would be nice, but is this realistic? A more conservative guess is the one that's been brought up many times - 1 ghz for the top end, with 800 mhz on the base model. Even better woudl be an 867 mhz on the base model.

Will the refresh include a Superdrive? Would be nice, but based on Apple's past "use year old parts and charge state of the art prices" policy, seems highly unlikely.

Price - assuming 1 ghz at the top end, with the Radeon 9000 card, 512 megs of RAM, 40 gig HD (would nice if Apple would FINALLY put in 5200 rpm drives standard), I think that current pricing of $3199 is too high, especially in light of what you can get in terms of price/performance on the WinTel side, but also compared to the current line of G4 Towers, which have dual processors. And especially in this weak economy here consumers (even the most loyal of Mac users) are price-sensitive, let alone potential Switchers(tm). Could Apple do better than $2499 on the low end and $3199 on the high end?

Finally, the big $3200 dollar question can be summarized in one word:

When?

So when will this happen? On Monday, a whole bunch of rebates/specials will expire. Also there are expiries of specials on October 15th. It would be like an early Christmas if two days from now Apple were to announce new TiBooks. Or how about on October 16th? There has been talk about a refresh not happening until next year.

Oh yes, One More Thing(tm), the issue of OS X boot-only machines. For me (and many musicians), this would be a huge issue. Despite Logic finally being available in OS X, problem is, Pro Tools is not. And no, you can *not* run digital audio/MIDI programs in OS X using Classic. It just plain does not work. I use Logic Audio, but the problem is, two plug-in sets (Waves and Autotune) are not available as native OS X VST, let alone Audio Units. As a result, I can not run OS X full time as I'd like to. So I'd prefer that a new Powerbook could be dual-bootable. A lot of pro musicians use the TiBook. Moby, BT, and countless others. I can't wait until the day that Waves, Autotune, T-Racks are OS X native so I don't have to dual boot to do music, but until then, dual boot is necessary for some of us pro guys.

In any case, speculate away, let's have some fun with this to pass the time from now until the next revision TiBooks are finally released!

legionare · Sep 30, 2002, 03:22 PM

Given the choice, I'd opt for a plain-vanilla cd/dvd-rom drive (and no slot-loader please!) I'd leave the cd/dvd-burning to the external drive (mine's 24x currently; and up to 48x at the bleeding edge). I want dual batteries (and/or expansion bay, however I'm been told unlikely it is in Apple's future line-up). I just DON'T want to waste precious battery juice on any burner while I'm unplugged. I want large hard drive. I don't want to be force-fed Bluetooth. 2.4Mhz spectrum is crowded enough. I don't want anything messing with my AirPort.

MadMacs · 03:38 AM

Todd Corzett · Oct 4, 2002, 11:08 PM

I think some people have forgot what the PowerBook really is... a PORTABLE computer.

Apple can make a dual 1.25Ghz G4 with 4HD bays, dual optical drives, etc... portable computer, but you would need a car battery to power it and a wheelbarrow to move it around.

Everything is a game of trade-offs. You can't have everything that you want... it's just a fact of life. If you want portability you can't have the ultimate performance. Portability is also going to cost more. Trade-offs... if you want more power and lower prices then plan on plugging your computer in and sitting at a desk. Personally I would (and did) pay more for less to get the ability to take my computer with me anywhere.

Back to the main point of this post: Superdrives and 1.2GHz

1.2GHz I think is possible, but I don't see it happening until a new form factor... MWSF03?

I think that Superdrives are around the corner, but again will not be in place until a new form factor. I also see a Superdrive in a portable computer as a waste - other than to have everything in one nice clean package. Currently it takes quite a bit of time and power to burn a DVD, and with a limited battery a portable Superdrive would suck the life out of a PowerBook.

I would really like to see people spending less time looking at the Mac/PC gap and the Now/Then comparisions and concentrate more on how much computer do I need (single or dual), how do I want to use my computer (desklocked or portable), and what will fill those needs (PowerBook, PowerMac, PC, etc).

-Todd...

UnixMac · Oct 5, 2002, 10:35 AM

This is my REALISTIC hopes for the new PB (Which I expect with in this month!)

-Same design (maybe a few mm thicker)
-1,0GHz G4 2MB L3
-167MHz bus
-512MB DDR (1.0G for $200 more)
-ATI 9000 64MB DDR
-CDRW 16X DVD-R option
-Bluetooth
-Better Paint/Exterior treatment

And as many fans as they need for it to work!

Commodus · Oct 5, 2002, 11:56 AM

I'm going to be a bit conservative... it'd be nice to see a 1.2 GHz Powerbook, but I'm sure we won't see that until the spring, as others have said. Based on what I've been hearing around the web so far, here's what I think we'll see in the next 2-3 weeks:

* an 800 MHz or 1 GHz G4 processor, with 1 MB L3 cache
* 133 MHz system bus
* 266 or 333 MHz (effective) DDR memory
* 64 MB Mobility Radeon 9000 video
* 30, 40 and 60 GB hard disk options
* faster Combo drive, and a 1X Superdrive as a high-end option
* integrated Bluetooth
* slight change in the manufacturing process (new cooling and/or paint)

jstein · Oct 5, 2002, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Todd Corzett:
I think some people have forgot what the PowerBook really is... a PORTABLE computer.

Apple can make a dual 1.25Ghz G4 with 4HD bays, dual optical drives, etc... portable computer, but you would need a car battery to power it and a wheelbarrow to move it around.

Everything is a game of trade-offs. You can't have everything that you want... it's just a fact of life. If you want portability you can't have the ultimate performance. Portability is also going to cost more. Trade-offs... if you want more power and lower prices then plan on plugging your computer in and sitting at a desk. Personally I would (and did) pay more for less to get the ability to take my computer with me anywhere.

Back to the main point of this post: Superdrives and 1.2GHz

1.2GHz I think is possible, but I don't see it happening until a new form factor... MWSF03?

I think that Superdrives are around the corner, but again will not be in place until a new form factor. I also see a Superdrive in a portable computer as a waste - other than to have everything in one nice clean package. Currently it takes quite a bit of time and power to burn a DVD, and with a limited battery a portable Superdrive would suck the life out of a PowerBook.
-Todd...

Hmmmm! Well Todd, here is another way to look at this issue. Most portable users don't watch DVD's on battery power..... So I don't think that too many of them would actually try and burn a DVD on battery power ....
Hey, I am a newbie and youngster here but I am quite sure that this same issue was brought up when the topic of putting DVD-ROM's into portable computers and before that CD-ROMS as welll>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a little food for thought

Todd Corzett · Oct 5, 2002, 06:03 PM

The idea of everything in one nice neat package is a great one... a PowerBook equipped with a Superdrive is a great example. The ability to move everything in one piece is great, but it has it's trade-offs (speed and cost).

If they made a Superdrive upgrade for my Ti800 I would not buy it... for my $$$ worth, I would rather buy an external firewire drive with twice the speed for the same cost. Yes, I can't take it with me as easily, but I don't have a need to burn DVDs when not at my desk.

Maybe down the line when DVD media gets cheaper and it's the best burning solution (for me) I would want a portable DVD burner, but for now I don't have the need to justify the cost of a portable Superdrive.

I think the Superdrive will come to a portable... I'm just questioning the actual use of it (for me).

-Todd...

Note: I watch DVDs on battery power quite often. It sucks the life out of my battery, but for my own personal movie theater it comes in handy (it's nice being on a Southwest airline flight and actually getting a movie!)

UnixMac · Oct 5, 2002, 06:48 PM

Yeah, I really don't want to hold this baby up for an internal DVD-R.....I much more need the faster Chip/Bus/RAM/Graphics card. I would probably like a 16X CDRW more for the internal as it would be use 100 times more often. I think that Apple should allow external DVD-R drives for the Mac, and then make a cool sleek Ti DVD-R external for about $400 that would work on all the Mac line.

But to have this be the hold up for a new Ti is not for me (read that again, "me") --- Others might disagree and for good reason.

seanyepez · Oct 5, 2002, 07:32 PM

The SuperDrive wouldn't use very much power while idling; it's basically the same idea as a portable CD-RW drive.

DVD's take longer to burn, but they don't drain the battery twice as fast as a CD-RW drive would.

I wouldn't use the SuperDrive. However, from what I've read, the new PowerBook will feature a turbine-like cooling device in the middle to more effectively dissipate heat without sounding like an airplane.

vsurfer · Oct 5, 2002, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by UnixMac:
Yeah, I really don't want to hold this baby up for an internal DVD-R.....I much more need the faster Chip/Bus/RAM/Graphics card. I would probably like a 16X CDRW more for the internal as it would be use 100 times more often. I think that Apple should allow external DVD-R drives for the Mac, and then make a cool sleek Ti DVD-R external for about $400 that would work on all the Mac line.

But to have this be the hold up for a new Ti is not for me (read that again, "me") --- Others might disagree and for good reason.

Totally with you on this one.

skyman · Oct 5, 2002, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by vsurfer:

Totally with you on this one.

DITTO!

If Apple is delaying an upgraded Ti because they are waiting for an internal DVD-R, well all I can say is big mistake!

icruise · Oct 6, 2002, 11:19 AM

I have basically promised myself that I won't get a new Powerbook until they renew the form factor. The Tibook doesn't do it for me in a lot of ways, although it does have some cool aspects.

I think they need something that will impress people again, like the design of the tibook impressed people when it was originally introduced. The problem is that it is hard to go much thinner and still keep an internal drive, and making the next one thicker would be seen as a step backward unless it had some other groundbreaking features. I just want a smallish light machine with some durability -- none of this paint chipping, titanium warping business.

As for specs, I will agree that it wouldn't make sense for apple to put off updating the powerbook line just because they want a DVD-R option, although I disagree that having a DVD-R in a powerbook is unneccesary. I remember back when they were introducing combo drives, people made the exact same arguments -- "how many CDs do you burn away from your desk?" "Won't it drain the batteries" The fact of the matter is that having an internal burner is very useful, whether you use it on batteries or not. Of course, I would also personally like to see a version of the powerbook with no internal drive (thus allowing it to be thinner and lighter).

UnixMac · Oct 6, 2002, 01:20 PM

I like the Ti design myself, but I do agree that the manufacture is poor. They need a totally new process for painting/covering the metal. I don't think that anything should be that fragile. However, I like the overall design, and would like to see a minor if hardly noticable change, along the lines of the G4 desktop evolution.

GIVE ME A PB IN OCT OR, .....OR, .....I'LL DO SOMETHING HORIBLE!