[m01ety]

Everyone's favorite Windows curmudgeon, Paul Thurrot, claims so in this posting.

Now, Paul has plenty of experiences with OS X (he has an iBook) and he was second in line at the Night of the Panther event at CambridgeSide, MA (the first person was a fat, long-haired guy with questionable personal hygene, wearing a black NeXT shirt).

I believe some interesting points are raised in the article, but also think that what he refers to as the "Classic" desktop system works better in the end. Overwhelming users with ten million tasks at every choice might not be the way to go, IMO...

Comments, ideas? Just thought I'd share this find and see what other people think.

[Chuckit]

I think he's right to a certain degree, but he's really overstating his case. At the computer lab I work at at my school, I see people day in and day out getting caught on simple things like burning a CD -- not because it's particularly difficult on Mac OS X, just because they aren't quite sure how to go about it.

In my opinion, Apple had the best answer to this and threw it all away -- the Mac OS 9 Help system. Balloon Help was really useful for users not quite sure what something did. And the Help Center was great: It took you step-by-step through the task you want to complete, correcting you if you missed a step, offering to open applications for you and circling buttons you need to press. I think this is a much better way of tackling the problem than the "Here's five tasks a peon like you might be interested in" approach Thurrot is advocating.

[JBoss303]

Maybe Apple should add a "start button" to the dock that would open the applications folder. That would be SO innovative...

I fail to see how a task is better to beginners than an application. You always have to start somewhere. How is listening to music in XP more task centric than his comparison to iTunes? You click on the "I would like to listen to music"- button?

And how about ordering prints? In longhorn you still have to press something to show you the photos that you want to order and then start enjoying the task based experience. In Mac OS you start iPhoto, which has quite an intuitive icon. And if they rip of the album thing from iPhoto that makes them more intuitive?

I think that tasks (a.k.a.) wizards are a good thing to have, but having them doesn't make Longhorn more intuitive or innovative than Panther (or whatever Mac OS is called in 2005 when Longhorn ships).

Anyway, why compare an existing operating system to vaporware?

[msuper69]

f**k him and Windows too.

If you can't figure out what program to use to mess with photos (iPhoto), movies (iMovie), music (iTunes), etc., you should just stick with the non-digital alternatives.

And anybody who uses Longhorn in their arguments for or against an OS is basing their discussion on unreleased software, which don't count folks. Sorry. Write again after it's available to purchase.

[Simon Mundy]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
I think he's right to a certain degree, but he's really overstating his case. At the computer lab I work at at my school, I see people day in and day out getting caught on simple things like burning a CD -- not because it's particularly difficult on Mac OS X, just because they aren't quite sure how to go about it.

In my opinion, Apple had the best answer to this and threw it all away -- the Mac OS 9 Help system. Balloon Help was really useful for users not quite sure what something did. And the Help Center was great: It took you step-by-step through the task you want to complete, correcting you if you missed a step, offering to open applications for you and circling buttons you need to press. I think this is a much better way of tackling the problem than the "Here's five tasks a peon like you might be interested in" approach Thurrot is advocating.

I'm with you on the Help system - it was really handy for certain tasks.

But as for people getting tripped up on burning a CD??? The step-by-step PRINTED manual isn't a bad start!

[clarkgoble]

Actually what I love most about OSX is that it is not task based. Even the way I have XP configured it is not task based. I find that the task based approach is great for newbies but annoying for everyone else because you are always fighting against how the computer thinks you ought to complete a task. This was the case with Wizards and is doubly the case with the more sophisticated versions.

Basically instead of having some basic "methods" which you can use the way you want, you have a prompt based approach. But that intrinsically forces you to do things they want. And if what you need to do doesn't quite fit....

Now there is something to be said that for complete computer idiots, this is the way to go. However these people will always be limited on what they can do.

I really prefer the OSX approach. Indeed, if OSX has a problem, it is that it isn't standard enough in its UI so that one can keep ones knowledge and apply it to all areas of the interface. This is why interface consistency is so important.

[Mr Scruff]

If Apple were ever so stupid to fill my desktop with irritating questions asking whether I wanted to do some task that I might need to perform once per year, I'd defect to Linux.

Fortunately they're not insane so I don't see this happening anytime soon.

OS X doesn't really cater for the total newbie, it's a streamlined OS that is powerful in the hands of the intermediate and power users.

However, I've never found it that difficult to teach people enough so that they can get by.

[Jens Peter]

My brother, he uses Xp and iTunes, called me the other night. "I have to rip this new CD - can I do that in iTunes?" I asked him if the CD was in the drive, and iTunes was launched - it was. So I told him, click that icon in the upper left corner, that says 'Import'.....
He went, "Thats it?!?... "

[phantomo]

Shouldn't that be "Upper right corner"?

[eevyl]

I also hate the task based UI with a passion. It is only usefull the very first time, from then it becomes annoying, even for the newbies.

However this is a strategy that a lot of companies are using (including Apple), but Microsoft just is the best at the job: treat users as complete idiots who don't think for themselves and guide them to wherever you want them to go, regardless if that is the best solution for them. In Windows, that leads to newbies signing for Hotmail and MSN accounts, using Outlook and Internet Explorer for the web, Media Player and every single Microsoft product it is installed on their systems, no matter if the user already did install a third party app. Windows will, using the task system, lead users again and again towards Microsoft own products, or most of the time running in circles.

One of the flaws of the task based UI is that for some reason if you are trying to do something a bit complicated, it just guides you to a infinite loop, ending in the starting "task". The same behavior the help system in Windows has.

I prefer easy UI from the start, with power user options laying underneath the easy front for newbies. Much like what OS X gives.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Simon Mundy:
I'm with you on the Help system - it was really handy for certain tasks.

But as for people getting tripped up on burning a CD??? The step-by-step PRINTED manual isn't a bad start!

Well, like I said, this is a lab at my school. The IT department didn't even give us the manuals, so it's not as though the users would find them lying around. And they're generally a bit timid about trying to do things they don't understand.

[nbnz]

I love this quote from the article...

But saying that such an OS is "easier to use" or "more elegant" than Windows is wrong. Mac OS X is attractive, and arguably "better looking" than Windows XP, though that's a subjective declaration. But it is most certainly not "easier to use". And that's not "Apple bashing," it's just the way it is.

So saying an OS is "better looking" is subjective, but saying an OS is "easier to use" or "more elegant" isn't subjective?

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by JBoss303:

I think that tasks (a.k.a.) wizards are a good thing to have...

I had read sometime ago at Macbidouille the opinion of one specialist in operating system (or application's? I don't remember) UI design for the wizard concept in general. He said that having wizards in an operating system to guide you through several tasks, means that something is fundamentally wrong in the system design... . Sorry, I cannot find the link.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I had read sometime ago at Macbidouille the opinion of one specialist in operating system (or application's? I don't remember) UI design for the wizard concept in general. He said that having wizards in an operating system to guide you through several tasks, means that something is fundamentally wrong in the system design... . Sorry, I cannot find the link.

I think Jobs once said that Micosoft is trying to hide all the hard things in an OS by using Wizards to guide the user through a task - Apple is trying to make the hard things easy.

[Spheric Harlot]

One of the fundamental things I try to instill in newbies (especially since Panther) is that the Help Viewer REALLY WORKS.

It's actually quite excellent at finding you whatever info you're looking for, from burning CDs to DNS configuration to html mail.

They should put up a sign in every computer lab pointing users to the Help menu.

-s*

[Gee4orce]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
One of the fundamental things I try to instill in newbies (especially since Panther) is that the Help Viewer REALLY WORKS.

-s*

Unfortunately , mine doesn't. Don't suppose anyone can suggest how to stop it crashing every time I try and open it ?

[kcmac]

Paul T. basically has nothing to write about on the PC side these days. Longhorn is years away, Apple software has invade Windows, everyone is buying iPods, etc. His Apple columns are numerous and probably at an all time high.

He's discovered that bashing Apple adds a high amount of lookers from the mac side that get pissed and from the PC side that like to hear this drivel. Great for business if you are in his shoes.

Come on. He's just a young Dvorak with his own site. Don't let him bother you.

[JKT]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Unfortunately , mine doesn't. Don't suppose anyone can suggest how to stop it crashing every time I try and open it ?

Tried deleting the com.apple.helpui folder from ~/Library/Caches?

Edit: forgot to stick Caches in the path

[Dale Sorel]

Yea, OS X needs a talking paperclip to help me look at a photo

[stotan]

the guy is a total idoit

application based, task based.. its the same freakin thing!

"It takes a very dated applications-based approach to handling tasks, too. You want to listen to music? Load iTunes first. You have to know which app to use before you can do anything."

uhh what would u have to do in windows to listen to music? maybe open windows media?

oh but windows is "task" based so u can just click on your music file and it will play!

holy crap! you can do that in os x too! and guess what! in both cases windows will open windows media and os x will open itunes!

and we aren't living in the early 90's when people didnt understand what a computer was. if you make an os (longhorn) more idoit proof its just going to annoy the hell of 95% of the people who arent idoits

[loudgazelle]

i am the admin for a site with 50-60 windows computers, about half xp and half 98. I never used windows on a day to day basis until I started this job. I can't stand the wizards- they get in the way. I know what I want to do and they keep me from doing it the right way. Every time I use a wizard I have to go back and change some of the settings because it didn't do it right.

same thing for the stupid "i want to ..." links. I hardly ever use this crap. i don't even realize they're there half the time, and they don't always work when you use them. mostly they just bring up a damn wizard which gunks up the process, but sometimes there isn't any other way to do what you need to do without a wizard.

[mj_1903]

He states that you click start....but then its not obvious what is next. Lets step through the dock icons...

Finder - a little vague
System Preferences - um, preferences to change the system
Mail - e-mail?
Address Book - addresses?
Safari - a little vague
iTunes - music?
iMovie - movies?
iCal - calendars?

Microsoft start menu...

Windows Explorer - a little vague, is it a help system?
Control Panels - panels for what? Controlling what?
Outlook (if installed) - a little vague. No mention of addresses, mail, calendar's, etc.
Internet Explorer - hey, that one's actually a good name
Windows Media Player - most have this synonmous with movies
Windows Movie Maker - movies?

As you can see, after that first click, its exactly the same, and Mac OS X removes the first click. Then after the first step, you have the most used applications in Windows and if its not there its in a convulted menu in another position in the start menu which is already full of dozens of other popup menus.

Personally, my Mom took one look at her Mac, put her mouse down the dock and said "Good, its there, ok, don't need that, great I can use that" and asked me how to remove them. This was on her first try. She knew what they were and knew what they would do from their names. As shown above, Windows naming is quite strange and slapping Windows on everything is also quite stupid.

[mangacool]

I sent the guy writing the article a reply:

In over 10 years experience teaching fearful new computer users how to do certain things with their computers, I've learned that the most intuitive system is not wizard-based or task-based systems.

Why? Because you can't have a task or wizard for everything, and task-based systems frequently fail in that department. The best thing to do is what Apple has done with the MacOS X interface - make it simple, and fun, to encourage new users to play with things and see how they behave. While it takes some learning to get used to, those users will be more able and willing to fend for themselves when they want to graduate to the next level of computing.

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he'll eat forever.

[ryeguy]

I sent paul an email. His article is plain wrong. I told him about these things called folders that we can "navigate to" too, and print from there, instead of launching the app and then printing from there. I also said, in closing, fxxk you, fxxk Windows and fxxk your stupid article.

[Eciton]

Originally posted by ryeguy:
I sent paul an email. His article is plain wrong. I told him about these things called folders that we can "navigate to" too, and print from there, instead of launching the app and then printing from there. I also said, in closing, fxxk you, fxxk Windows and fxxk your stupid article.

Ah, that was good - I'm sure he's going to take a reasoned look at your statements with that attitude :-/.

No disrespect meant, but with comments like that the Windows folks have a reason for calling us Mac Zealots...

[mangacool]

This guy is a complete ass. I sent him the polite email noted above, and here's his ass-like reply:

The idea isn't to include a wizard for everything. That's the point of
inductive UI: Give inexperienced users a starting point with all tasks (like
printing), and give all users a way to easily accomplish little-accessed
tasks (like setting up an Internet connection).

Apple encourages users to "play with things and see how they behave"? Sorry,
but that's hilarious. People want to get work done, not play around and see
what happens, especially when what happens can be disastrous. We're talking
about computers here, not a fisher price activity center.

This letter is so hilarious, I'm going to publish it. Thanks!

Paul

So now I'm going to have to get rude. Stay tuned.

[mangacool]

Here's the latest installment of my email exchange. It might be the last, but it's worth a laugh or two:

The idea isn't to include a wizard for everything. That's the point of
inductive UI: Give inexperienced users a starting point with all tasks (like
printing), and give all users a way to easily accomplish little-accessed
tasks (like setting up an Internet connection).

What happens when a user wants to do something that's part task A, and part task B? Or something that includes none of the tasks available? You end up with a user, who's been dependent on a task-based system for months, and is now completely stumped. That's what happens when you tell someone to follow step A, B, C, and step "B" no longer applies.

And I find it interesting that a writer of an unbiased, well thought out article would respond rudely to a polite email. I didn't insult you, nor did I insult Microsoft (so if they're the cash behind the pencils, so to speak, you have nothing to defend). I insist only that Microsoft needs a more organic operating system design. See below for more.

Apple encourages users to "play with things and see how they behave"? Sorry,
but that's hilarious. People want to get work done, not play around and see
what happens, especially when what happens can be disastrous. We're talking
about computers here, not a fisher price activity center.

It's called organic design. It encourages people to find their own ways to do things. That way when "Step A, B, C" fails they can find their own route from step "A" to step "C" without bugging tech support.

I know this from experience: I would give brand-new users (people where I used to work who used to have only an analog Bell phone on their desk) Apple computers and spend about 2 minutes showing them basically how menus and folders work, and tell them "go for it, you won't break anything". Within a week they've already changed the desktop picture and have alias icons on the desktop or in the dock for frequently used applications. And I never hear a single question from them.

This isn't one of those "Apple will always be better!" emails. I've sent similar emails to Microsoft asking for interface design changes because from a support standpoint, I would like to see Windows become as easy to support as MacOS. When I'm working I have enough to do without spending a half hour here and there fixing things that should not have broken.

This letter is so hilarious, I'm going to publish it. Thanks!

Go for it, Paul. With an attitude like that, it's not me they'll be laughing at. I imagine it will be a welcome change, people will be laughing to your face instead of behind your back or after you leave as they usually do.

[Bobby]

I have to STRONGLY DISAGREE with the photo printing theory!! I spent an hour and a half one time trying to print out a photo at a specific size! The problem is, the photo printer in Windows DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO PRINT A PICTURE AT THE SIZE AND RESOUTION IT'S SAVED IN!!!!!!!!


I CAN ONLY PRINT IT OUT IN ONE OF THEIR PRE-DETERMINED SIZES!!! I had to do A TON OF MATH IN ORDER TO GET A PHOTO PRINTED OUT AT AN EXACT SIZE!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT WAS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE!!!

[Developer]

Originally posted by Bobby:
I have to STRONGLY DISAGREE with the photo printing theory!! I spent an hour and a half one time trying to print out a photo at a specific size! The problem is, the photo printer in Windows DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO PRINT A PICTURE AT THE SIZE AND RESOUTION IT'S SAVED IN!!!!!!!!

Have you considered Photoshop (Elements)?

[zeldasman]

Originally posted by m01ety:
Comments, ideas? Just thought I'd share this find and see what other people think.

Yeah, well, isn't it possible he's a shill for MS who's trying to downplay the importance and usability of Window's primary competitor? After all, Longhorn is about two years out and it's in his best interest (he writes books on Windows and publishes a newsletter on Windows) to badmouth Apple.

Oh, he's got an iBook? Well, that assures his impartiality!

[Bobby]

I sent this letter to the guy who wrote the article. The event outlined in this letter is 100% true. I went through it about a year ago...

I had just glanced at your article for printing photos in Windows vs. Mac OS X. There is one important point, in that if you want to print a photo in an exact size YOU CANNOT DO IT IN XP!!!

The setup for this is simple. As it stands I had a photo I wanted to print out at an exact size. Something like an inch and a half by 3 inches. The purpose for doing this was that I wanted to put the photo in my wallet. I took the image and cropped, resized and adjusted the resolution in PhotoShop on the mac. I do not have a printer hooked up to mac so I went to print the photo out in XP.

As it stands, I am extremely well versed in computers. I worked providing tech support for over 4 years, until I was promoted out of the department. When I was promoted, I was considered to be the most knowledgeable tech support representative in the tech support department.

I supported windows systems, but my own system is (and always has been) a Mac. I am a Power User some would say...

Now, as the story continues I transfered the photo already cropped, scaled, and resolution adjusted to a windows system. I then proceeded to print the photo out. THE RESULT I GOT WAS NOTHING CLOSE TO THE SIZE I NEEDED IT!! I then tried again, only this time with a different setting. AGAIN THE RESULT I GOT WAS NO WHERE NEAR THE SIZE I NEEDED IT! I continued to do this for roughly an hour. I FINALLY WAS ONLY ABLE TO PRINT THE PICTURE OUT AT THE SIZE I NEEDED BY DOING A TON OF MATH!!! I essentially had to create white space around the photo, then print it out at one of the defined printing size so that my end result was the right size. I COULD NOT BELIEVE HOW DIFFICULT THIS WAS! I WAS LAUGHING AT IT BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A JOKE!!! WINDOWS XP DOES NOT LET YOU CHOOSE THE SIZE AT WHICH TO PRINT! IT WILL ONLY LET YOU PRINT IN ONE OF THEIR PRE-DETERMINED SIZES!!!!!!!!!!!

To say printing a photo on windows is easier its not fully accurate. Try doing this using your 4 step process. Windows XP does not give you any method to accomplish this task. Its fine if you want windows to decide the final size of the photo. But the second you want to decide this on your own, it becomes a brawl between you and XP...

Again I ask you to try this on your own using your 4 step process. You will see that my story is 100% the truth, and you will in turn realize your process is no where near as simple as you laid it out to be...

AND I'M NOT SENDING THIS MESSAGE SIMPLY IN DEFENSE OF MAC'S. I AM SENDING IT SOLELY BECAUSE OF THE LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION I WENT THOUGH TO DO SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SO SIMPLE!!! IT'S NOT A CASE OF WINDOWS BASHING, IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!

And again I ask you to try doing this, and publish your results. I have a gut feeling you won't because even if you do try, you would have to come out and admit there are major limitations in your 4 step process.

[Bobby]

Originally posted by Developer:
Have you considered Photoshop (Elements)?

One small problem, the computer I was using didn't have photoshop or photoshop elements. It was not my computer I was using...

[Cf]

wizards baffle everyone i know. "do i want to do this" sound familiar to anyone? one window, a FEW choices, click and do it. all of these little additions to what i think he's talking about just clutter things. it's like our new version of toast 6. in 5.x and older was easy to navigate through and having to use the menu in the Other tab was even enough to irritate me. i want things done quick with little getting in my way. right clicking on a picture and choosing print to most people would imply that it goes right to the printer and that's what they want it to do. going into a wizard is just like going into a graphics app anyway and printing from there. will it be printed out the way they want it to? probably not. i've always thought of the right click as a right clique. the day people stop opening jpegs in word is the day we can move on to a task oriented UI. as for his single click/double click comment, people still double click links. what's easier than navigating a web site??? give me a break! intuition for windows users always seems to begin with the Start menu no mattery what. CLUTTERED START MENU looks very familiar doesn't it. look how many steps his realone player bit takes. what average user knows right off the bat how to make something play in realplayer, let alone make it the default player. EVERY task to the common/new user is unfamiliar. right now people just need to learn how to use a computer and keep us brains from confusing them. there are lots of tasks in the OS X UI that resemble windows functions now and that's good for switchers. it eases them into the experience by giving them something that is already familiar. only one thing bugs me about OS X and i'm not sure if Panther has it because i haven't upgraded yet. In XP, they can look at full size photos right from the folder whereas we get 128x128 previews that nobody can see. while it's good for a quick search for a photo, it's not good when you're showing people photos. by the way, if we could do everything from the Finder, would we need 3rd party developers? Just start from square one. As many wise ones have said many times, "Keep It Simple Stupid."

[clarkgoble]

Originally posted by JLL:
I think Jobs once said that Micosoft is trying to hide all the hard things in an OS by using Wizards to guide the user through a task - Apple is trying to make the hard things easy.

This is certainly true. Although, to be honest, I don't think Apple has put UI design quite as high as they ought. Compare how Apple does it now with how they did it back in the 80's. (We'll ignore the 90's which I consider the nadir of Apple)

One place that I think Apple has fallen behind in is help screens. Panther is slightly better than Jaguar, but no where near as good as XP. I wouldn't mind "task managers" ala XP if they were only found in the help files. i.e. wizards as part of help. However ideally these "wizards" would be for teaching you how to do things and not merely "hiding" from the user how to do things (as is typically the case in XP)

[Dale Sorel]

This guy is an idiot...I have CMMs that allow me to view a photo, play a movie, etc.

Oh, but that's not the same as a talking paperclip

[macintologist]

Originally posted by eevyl:
...
In Windows, that leads to newbies signing for Hotmail and MSN accounts, using Outlook and Internet Explorer for the web, Media Player and every single Microsoft product it is installed on their systems, no matter if the user already did install a third party app. Windows will, using the task system, lead users again and again towards Microsoft own products, or most of the time running in circles....

Isn't that what Apple does when they have a .Mac prefernce pain, tell you that you can check your mail using Mail.app and launch Safari with the homepage being livepage.apple.com and launching iPhoto automatically when you plug in a camera

I use Safari for the web, Mail for email, iTunes for music, iPhoto for photos, iMovie for making movies, iDVD for making DVDs, Quicktime for playing mpegs, iSync for syncing, and so on...

And don't forget that when you install iTunes on the PC they advertise the iPod.

Oh wait... it's not Microsoft so it's ok!

[eevyl]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Oh wait... it's not Microsoft so it's ok!

No you are missquoting my words. I did say that it is a technique that a lot of companies use, including Apple. I just stated that Microsoft is the best at that job. I also find that behavior in Apple products annoying, but for sure they don't bother and try to engage you as much as Windows do. That was my point.

[dharknes]

Not that it matters but here was my reply to Paul's article.

Paul,

You may want to check your computer history one more time. Microsoft didn't come innovate document-centric computing, that was an IBM innovation which was first rolled into OS/2 2.0. Then IBM and Apple started working on OpenDoc which was an attempt to completely get rid of Application-centric computing. From a UI stand point OS/2 still has the best document centric interface, by greatly reducing the need of the user to know where or how to start an application. Or in some cases even what application was used to create the document in question. In OS/2 applications are simply background things rarely accessed directly. For the most part users interact with documents and document templates which exist in the OS/2 Workplace Shell.

Microsoft's implementation of document-centric computing is actually very poor. First, it doesn't abstract the user experience enough, it requires that an document type be tied to a specific application usually a Microsoft application, and they don't give the user or 3rd party developer a simple way to change that. This requirement means users are creating Microsoft Word Documents instead of a more general word-processing document, and this document is create by starting Word then going through a wizard, instead of simply creating a new empty document on the hard disk. Second, tasks or wizards don't free the user from the application centric model. In fact wizards locks the user in deeper, since wizards (oh sorry tasks) are tied back to applications, not a document or even a document type. Third, wizards/tasks don't help the user learn anything about the system. Wizards belong in a help environment assisting the user in learning how to accomplish routine tasks. Fourth, depending on wizards or tasks as the basis for a UI is general the mark of a failed UI design. An intuitively designed UI allows the user to work in a way that makes sense to the user, even if the user is a newbie.

Now I realize the tasks provide MS several advantages, from a business stand point, over a simplified UI. It keeps the user untrained and locked into Windows. If wizards were used in the help system to help users become more proficient or to give users a starting push, then users would become better trained and more advanced users. A better trained user is more likely to try something new or look for more powerful software and MS doesn't want that. Dumb users don't realize the OS/2, MacOS X, Linux, or the BSDs provide a better computing environment then anything Microsoft has to offer, that Adobe provides better graphics editing, or that OpenOffice just might provide a better office suite.

Thanks,
Derek

"When the people fear the government you have tyranny... when the government fears the people you have liberty. "
_______________________________--Thomas Jefferson

[ryaxnb]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
Figure: XP's task-based approach to printing a photo.


In Longhorn, Microsoft is eliminating the first step. You don't worry about the file system.
Funny, iPhoto lets you not worry about the file system too.
There is a special shell folder/collection/Library (whatever they decide to call it)
Maybe they'll call it iPhoto, eh?

in Longhorn that aggregates all of the photos on your system automatically, and instantly.
I don't what to see my program's BMP files, thank you. iPhoto aggregates all photos in your library

You can filter the view by various criteria (who took the picture, when it was taken, what it is a picture of; in other words, metadata), making it very easy to find. After that, there is a similar task-based approach to XP for actually printing the picture.
You can do this in X too.

In OS X, generally, you would think "iPhoto," load it up, and look for the print option, which is pretty easy. This is an app-based approach. Like, I want to write a letter: I need Word.


In XP, you would navigate to the My Pictures folder, or wherever you store your photos, (which I find a bit technical, frankly; people aren't into file systems), find the photo you want to print, select the photo, and then view a list of tasks in the tasks pane. One is "Print this picture." Another is "Order prints online". If you select the former, you are presented with a wizard that walks you through the whole process: Selecting the printer and, if desired, the printer settings; selecting the photo layout to use (which is really cool for photos, especially if you have a photo printer with different photo paper sizes); and so on. Step-by-step.

RIGHT NOW, there's not much better in XP. In 3 years we'll probably have 10.5. Or, of course, if the people who have been saying things since 1995 (and getting it wrong) are right, then Apple will be dead.

special shell folder
FOLDER. That's a file system. An earlier quote of his "(which I find a bit technical, frankly; people aren't into file systems" You shot yourself in the foot.

One is "Print this picture." Another is "Order prints online".
iPhoto has a Print button. Same difference

and, if desired, the printer settings;.
]There's generally no wizard for those. And they don't warn you enough about that.

selecting the photo layout to use
iPhoto can do this.

http://www.xvsxp.com/articles/031124-thurott.shtml Rebuttal his original, different article.
Task-based UIs are not necessarily good.http://www.xvsxp.com/wizards/
Note: I am not the guy who wrote those articles.

[ryaxnb]

The Lisa was document-based.

[Big Mac]

Although holding Windows up as the paragon of good UI design is the silliest thing I can think of, it's clear that Apple could be doing a better job with certain interface issues. OS X's interface is great - granted - but it has its own rough edges. I tend to agree with one of the previous posters who noted that Apple doesn't pay as much attention to user interface issues as it used to. One can point to a number of minor UI oversights that Apple doesn't seem too concerned about correcting.

One thing that was particularly troubling to me was how Apple chose to deal with the LDAP-DHCP server vulnerability. If you take a look at the official TIL note you'll see the language there is anything but user friendly. (Now I know a TIL is a technical note, but a simpler, jargon-free explanation could be included as well.) It seems that Apple is expecting users to digest this technical information and then change the variable in Directory Services, yet they aren't even explicit about the steps a user has to do.

Apple's position is this feature should be on by default in order to make things easier for administrators. Yet, many Mac users aren't running their computers on OS X Server networks. Since they are not, Apple believes there's no reason to secure those Macs against the exploit. That seems to me to be a bad security arrangement. As a /. poster said, it appears that Apple is just rationalizing poor UI design. A good solution would be to have the first boot Setup Assistant ask the user whether or not this computer will be on a Mac OS X Server local network. If the user replies no, those extra configuration features can be turned off.

OS X is a far more powerful and therefore complex OS than OS 9 (and earlier) was. And yet the classic Mac OS had superior documentation and online help! (The old Mac OS Help with step-by-step coach marks was far better than the flat HTML that replaced it.) Now most of the time OS X is easy to use, but that's not always true. There are many applications in the Utilities folder that most would never know how to use. If a regular user were to read that TIL, his or her eyes would glaze over. (All of this doesn't mean that Apple should dumb OS X down. Perhaps there needs to be a clearer demarcation between regular user tasks and administrative ones.) OS X is the best OS around, but that doesn't mean it's perfect; there is always room for improvement. I hope Apple realizes that.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by eevyl:
No you are missquoting my words. I did say that it is a technique that a lot of companies use, including Apple. I just stated that Microsoft is the best at that job. I also find that behavior in Apple products annoying, but for sure they don't bother and try to engage you as much as Windows do. That was my point.

Ha ha! You edited your post and put in "including Apple" !

[DekuDekuplex]

Joey Spolsky writes in User Interface Design for Programmers that one key principle of UI design is not to expect users to read text.

To quote from the above site,

Originally posted in The Barnes and Noble Review at http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...3115941&itm=1:
Spolsky advocates designing as if your users can't read, can't use a mouse well, and "have such bad memories they would forget their own name if it weren't embossed on their American Express." (As Spolsky emphasizes, they're rarely that dumb, but are often preoccupied with more important matters.) He also offers practical guidance on using heuristics (why it's OK for Word to replace "teh" with "the," but never to tell you "It looks like you're writing a letter"?)

Hmm ... doesn't telling one "It looks like you're writing a letter" sound task-based?

The problem with the task-based approach is that it requires users to read pages of text, and according to Spolsky, this is just what users should not be expected to do.

When I'm in a hurry and am desperate to get something done, I usually don't have time for the task-based approach. I usually just open up applications that seem to have names related to what I want to get done, and then look at the pictures on the icons and try to figure out what to do while reading as little as possible.

But isn't this exactly what Mac OS X does?

--DekuDekuplex

[RayX]

Task based UIs are stupid and clutter the work space.

Teach new users how to control the computer properly (mouse and keyboard skills), and how to get around the operating system, and everything else will flow naturally. I'm talking the absolute basics here.

For example in OS X, once a user knows how to work with files in the Finder, they will know that they can drag files onto the CD-R icon that appears on their desktop after inserting a blank CD, to burn a CD.

Computer training these days always forgets that stuff.

A 'word processing' course today might consist of where to click in Microsoft Word. Wrong approach.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
One thing that was particularly troubling to me was how Apple chose to deal with the LDAP-DHCP server vulnerability. If you take a look at the official TIL note you'll see the language there is anything but user friendly. (Now I know a TIL is a technical note, but a simpler, jargon-free explanation could be included as well.) It seems that Apple is expecting users to digest this technical information and then change the variable in Directory Services, yet they aren't even explicit about the steps a user has to do.

Regular users are supposed to stop reading after:

"For typical home network configurations with a broadband (DSL or cable service) modem and a NAT (Network Address Translation) device, such as Apple's Airport, this exploit is not possible."

[fiddler]

Here's the screenshot the author used to illustrate right-click printing:


Note the commands?

Preview
Print
Preview (again!)

Hilarious..

(credit goes to a friend who pointed this out)

[m01ety]

Originally posted by fiddler:
Here's the screenshot the author used to illustrate right-click printing:


Note the commands?

Preview
Print
Preview (again!)

Hilarious..

(credit goes to a friend who pointed this out)

Awesome find!

Someone should email him. "Tasks don't confuse" indeed.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by fiddler:
Here's the screenshot the author used to illustrate right-click printing:


Note the commands?

Preview
Print
Preview (again!)

Hilarious..

(credit goes to a friend who pointed this out)

well I was going to defend the coders as I had assumed that image is from Longhorn and well it's a stupid idea to whine about a alpha OS's GUI being inconsistent.

But then again the file is named "lh_tasks_xp_poweruser.png" so you may be onto something there...

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by JLL:
Regular users are supposed to stop reading after:

"For typical home network configurations with a broadband (DSL or cable service) modem and a NAT (Network Address Translation) device, such as Apple's Airport, this exploit is not possible."

Right you are, JLL, but that's not really sufficient. Apple is essentially saying not to worry about something just because it isn't a problem for home users using NAT. That isn't good security. A box should be secured by default unless there's a good reason for it not to be secure-that's the Unix security policy. All kinds of services are on by default on Windows, and MS doesn't seem to care. Apple shouldn't be adopting that policy.

[P]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
In my opinion, Apple had the best answer to this and threw it all away -- the Mac OS 9 Help system. Balloon Help was really useful for users not quite sure what something did. And the Help Center was great: It took you step-by-step through the task you want to complete, correcting you if you missed a step, offering to open applications for you and circling buttons you need to press. I think this is a much better way of tackling the problem than the "Here's five tasks a peon like you might be interested in" approach Thurrot is advocating.

There was one major problem with AppleGuide and its ilk: making help files for it was hard and required both special tools and skills. The result was that many programs shipped without a helpfile, or with one that used their own system. Almost anyone can write an HTML help file, or just copy it from the Windows version.

It would be nice to extend the current system with something like Appleguide (like the circling of relevant controls - I really loved that) and implement some sort of Baloon help (like a tooltip part 2 - keep the mousepointer even longer on the button and you get a longer help blurb), but the old Appleguide had to go.