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Stan Lee's First Gay Superhero
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Jawbone54
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Jan 14, 2009, 12:40 PM
 
From The Scottish Sun: SPIDER-MAN creator Stan Lee is to unveil the world’s first gay superhero.

High school basketball star Thom Creed hides his developing superpowers along with his sexuality.

Former Marvel Comics boss Stan, 86 — who also created the Hulk and the X-Men — will unleash the character in an hour-long TV drama being shot in the US.

TV execs hope it will rival the huge success of shows likes Heroes.

Lee developed the idea of a gay character from the award-winning novel Hero by Perry Moore.

A TV insider said: “It was only a matter of time before we had our first gay superhero. And if there is one man who can make him a success it is Stan Lee.

“There’s a real buzz among comic book fans.”
Are you tuning in? Do you really think it has the potential to perform as well as Heroes? Stan Lee is actually still alive? How is Thom Creed going to stand out when the entire superhero community is already garishly dressed?

What do you guys think of the possibilities of the project?
     
Laminar
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Jan 14, 2009, 12:48 PM
 
Oh, he wasn't responsible for the Ambiguously Gay Duo?
     
Laminar
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Jan 14, 2009, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
How is Thom Creed going to stand out when the entire superhero community is already garishly dressed?
Ha!
     
Dakar V
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Jan 14, 2009, 12:50 PM
 
But what's his Superpower?
     
Doofy
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Jan 14, 2009, 12:51 PM
 
Wait. Liberace isn't a superhero?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:00 PM
 
Liberace > Elton John
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:00 PM
 
Also, could this be his uncle?

     
Laminar
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:01 PM
 
Also, could this be his uncle?

     
Dakar V
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:02 PM
 
Also, could this be his uncle?

     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:03 PM
 
I know, I know...I fixed it.

However, this thread is now filled with the most underrated character in The Office.
     
Dakar V
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:04 PM
 
Seriously, I've seen < 5 episodes of the Office, but I know Creed is the ****ing ****.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:09 PM
 
How appropriate: Creed and the 60s.
     
mdc
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:12 PM
 
Aren't there already gay superheroes?
Batwoman is lesbian.
     
starman
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:17 PM
 
See, this is what I don't get. Who cares what his sexuality is? I mean, for some characters it works (Superman), but for some it really doesn't matter.

And also, is this necessary?

People are treating homosexuality like it's a fad or something. It's very odd. The producers of the fan-made Star Trek series just added gay characters because they felt they had to make their presence known and show that they're real people, so they blew 6 minutes of footage on them to show they're just like any other couple in love. Not necessary in an old school Star Trek series, and DEFINITELY not the right amount of time to spend on minor characters.

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Jan 14, 2009, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
But what's his Superpower?
Turning you on.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Dakar V
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Turning you on.
He's good, but he's no Creed.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by mdc View Post
Aren't there already gay superheroes?
Batwoman is lesbian.
That's what I wondered too. Maybe the first gay male superhero?
     
osiris
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by mdc View Post
Aren't there already gay superheroes?
Batwoman is lesbian.
I thought they were all already gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Seriously, I've seen < 5 episodes of the Office, but I know Creed is the ****ing ****.
The Office is a great show. The more you watch it, the better you understand the characters, the more the jokes make sense.
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SpaceMonkey
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
The Office is a great show. The more you watch it, the better you understand the characters, the more the jokes make sense.
So true. On the recent episode when Michael had to decide whether to use the budget surplus on new chairs or a new copier and lured the security guard up to get his opinion, just the look that Stanley gave to the camera had me laughing.

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Oisín
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
See, this is what I don't get. Who cares what his sexuality is? I mean, for some characters it works (Superman), but for some it really doesn't matter.
Apparently, they think it’ll work for this character …

And also, is this necessary?
Of course not. Neither are any of the other superhero stories or characters.

People are treating homosexuality like it's a fad or something. It's very odd.
It is, in a way, a fad. It’s quite similar to back in the ’60s over here when nudity was made legal in regular films shown in the cinemas. For a while (by which I mean something like a decade), more or less every movie that was made just had to use that and see how far they could push the boundaries before the audience deemed it unacceptable.

Portraying gay lifestyles, love, sex, stories, etc. is still something that’s only relatively recently been de-stigmatised (and still isn’t completely so), so it’s only natural that new films and series are still ‘testing the waters’, so to speak.

The producers of the fan-made Star Trek series just added gay characters because they felt they had to make their presence known and show that they're real people, so they blew 6 minutes of footage on them to show they're just like any other couple in love. Not necessary in an old school Star Trek series, and DEFINITELY not the right amount of time to spend on minor characters.
I don’t watch Star Trek (especially not the fan-made stuff!), but isn’t six minutes rather a normal amount of time to spend on some minor character in some episode?
     
Dakar V
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
The Office is a great show. The more you watch it, the better you understand the characters, the more the jokes make sense.
Nothing against the Office, I just don't watch Network TV.
     
osiris
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Nothing against the Office, I just don't watch Network TV.
I don't blame you, Network TV stinks for the most part. The Office, Family Guy, Seinfeld, mb South Park, and ELR are about the only things I watch on network TV.
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Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Nothing against the Office, I just don't watch Network TV.
A pity.

Just because 99% of it sucks, you won't watch one of the two or three good shows?
     
Dakar V
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
A pity.

Just because 99% of it sucks, you won't watch one of the two or three good shows?
It's not worth the hassle. I don't care for any show that airs before 10 PM, and since it has a story arc, I don't much care to tie myself down to more than a couple shows.
     
Laminar
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:49 PM
 
Hulu
     
Dakar V
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Hulu
I'm well aware, I don't much care for watching TV on a computer, either.
     
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Liberace > Elton John
You take that back!
are you lightfooted?
     
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Seriously, I've seen < 5 episodes of the Office, but I know Creed is the ****ing ****.
Oh, I know.

I'm hoping The Office won't go the way of Gilmore Girls, where they quit having plots about all the "smaller" characters and just focus on the main characters (in this case, Jim/Pam, Dwight, and Michael).
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Jan 14, 2009, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
I don’t watch Star Trek (especially not the fan-made stuff!), but isn’t six minutes rather a normal amount of time to spend on some minor character in some episode?
Never. First off, Shatner and Nimoy would never, EVER allow six minutes to minor characters. You might get away with it with Next Gen, but definitely not with the original show.

I dunno, it seems to me that people are inserting gay characters because it's the cool, hip thing to do, NOT because it's essential to the story at all.

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MallyMal
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Jan 14, 2009, 02:10 PM
 
Maybe they mean first gay live-action superhero? I think the first gay hero in Marvel was Northstar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northstar. At least he is the first one that comes to mind.

Edit: Wait, this is Stan lee's first gay superhero.
     
Oisín
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Jan 14, 2009, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I dunno, it seems to me that people are inserting gay characters because it's the cool, hip thing to do, NOT because it's essential to the story at all.
Looking at it the other way around, why does it have to be essential to the story for a character to be gay?

Unless there’s some kind of romantic and/or sexual relationship involved, the sexuality of people we meet and who fleet through our real lives doesn’t really matter very much—it’s certainly not essential to our life story. So why should it have to be essential to the story of a movie/comic/series/whatever?
     
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Jan 14, 2009, 03:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
Looking at it the other way around, why does it have to be essential to the story for a character to be gay?

Unless there’s some kind of romantic and/or sexual relationship involved, the sexuality of people we meet and who fleet through our real lives doesn’t really matter very much—it’s certainly not essential to our life story. So why should it have to be essential to the story of a movie/comic/series/whatever?
Because there are particular advocacy groups for people from all walks of life who have demanded equal time. Consequently, movie producers/writers/etc. overcompensate in order to prove how open-minded they are. That's not a good answer from a storytelling point of view, but it's the truth.

Making sure that people know this Thom Creed guy is gay is another way for Stan Lee to pat himself on the back.

Also, I might be offending 50% of the forum with this one, but what's with Stan Lee and stupid character names? Pepper Potts, Rhodey Rhodes, Happy Hogan...and that's only in Iron Man.

DC > Marvel. At least they know how to name characters without sounding like a character from Blues Clues.
That said, I'm still enjoying the recent Marvel movies.
     
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Jan 14, 2009, 03:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
DC > Marvel. At least they know how to name characters without sounding like a character from Blues Clues.
I don't know what you're talking about - naming a character after his or her color is an incredible idea.
Magenta is totally a hottie.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I don't know what you're talking about - naming a character after his or her color is an incredible idea.
Magenta is totally a hottie.
In that case, I'd be called Wally B. White (B for "blindingly").
You definitely have a point about Magenta...
     
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Jan 14, 2009, 03:28 PM
 
I think emphasizing any character's sexuality runs the risk of sidetracking the broader story. I stopped watching Bones because of the routine but crudely done sexual humor.
     
Oisín
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Jan 14, 2009, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Because there are particular advocacy groups for people from all walks of life who have demanded equal time. Consequently, movie producers/writers/etc. overcompensate in order to prove how open-minded they are. That's not a good answer from a storytelling point of view, but it's the truth.
While I agree with this, it’s a different (though related) issue.

My ‘beef’ (if you can call it that) with what Starman said was the implication that making a (minor) character gay has to have some sort of impact or be essential (or at least relevant) to the story. I don’t think it does. If it’s a main character, it’s obviously bound to influence the story to some extent, but then again, most traits of main characters tend to be put there in order to be relevant or essential to the story. For minor characters, though, I don’t think movies should be any different from real life, in that random minor characters could well be gay, without it having any real relevance or impact on the story of the main character.

Unfortunately, I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen it properly carried out. It always seems to have to be made into the main defining feature of those minor characters (which it rarely is in real life), or far too much time ends up being spent on a minor character because of his or her being gay (which also doesn’t happen in real life). If a friend of the main character happens to be on the college football team, it gets randomly mentioned in passing or is implied, and it just sort of ‘sits’ there as a little factoid to give the character a bit of life and depth. If he happens to be gay, though, it has to go and be blown all out of proportion and be his main defining feature, which is ridiculous.

Anyways, this is pretty much off-topic. I don’t watch or care a ha’p’orth about cartoons and superheroes in general (though I do like Heroes), so I’m mostly talking about regular movies and series here.
     
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Jan 14, 2009, 03:39 PM
 
They are so far behind. Seems everyone forgot about Northstar.


Edit: Yeah, what Mallymal said.
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Jan 14, 2009, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
It always seems to have to be made into the main defining feature of those minor characters (which it rarely is in real life), or far too much time ends up being spent on a minor character because of his or her being gay (which also doesn’t happen in real life). If a friend of the main character happens to be on the college football team, it gets randomly mentioned in passing or is implied, and it just sort of ‘sits’ there as a little factoid to give the character a bit of life and depth. If he happens to be gay, though, it has to go and be blown all out of proportion and be his main defining feature, which is ridiculous.
For proof of the contrary, see "Salty."
     
Oisín
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Jan 14, 2009, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
For proof of the contrary, see "Salty."
I believe that’s twice in two days you’ve now made me . Good work.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
My ‘beef’ (if you can call it that) with what Starman said was the implication that making a (minor) character gay has to have some sort of impact or be essential (or at least relevant) to the story. I don’t think it does. If it’s a main character, it’s obviously bound to influence the story to some extent, but then again, most traits of main characters tend to be put there in order to be relevant or essential to the story. For minor characters, though, I don’t think movies should be any different from real life, in that random minor characters could well be gay, without it having any real relevance or impact on the story of the main character.

Unfortunately, I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen it properly carried out. It always seems to have to be made into the main defining feature of those minor characters (which it rarely is in real life), or far too much time ends up being spent on a minor character because of his or her being gay (which also doesn’t happen in real life). If a friend of the main character happens to be on the college football team, it gets randomly mentioned in passing or is implied, and it just sort of ‘sits’ there as a little factoid to give the character a bit of life and depth. If he happens to be gay, though, it has to go and be blown all out of proportion and be his main defining feature, which is ridiculous.
That's the whole point. Their character can't just happen to be gay; they have to be repeatedly pointed out as "the gay character" so that those involved in the project can point to it and say, "SEE? GAY! We believe in diversity here at (fill in the name of a studio or network)!"

I think a good exception (perhaps) would be Oscar from The Office. They don't constantly point out that he's gay. He also doesn't fit many of the stereotypes. Even the characters in the story (except Michael, of course) almost never mention his sexuality unless the scene calls for it.

I swear, if they promo this superhero series with a commercial that basically focuses on saying, "He has superpowers...and he's GAY!" then the whole thing will likely flop.
     
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Jan 14, 2009, 04:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I think a good exception (perhaps) would be Oscar from The Office. They don't constantly point out that he's gay. He also doesn't fit many of the stereotypes. Even the characters in the story (except Michael, of course) almost never mention his sexuality unless the scene calls for it.
But he's not dressed in women's clothing...
     
Oisín
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Jan 14, 2009, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I think a good exception (perhaps) would be Oscar from The Office. They don't constantly point out that he's gay. He also doesn't fit many of the stereotypes. Even the characters in the story (except Michael, of course) almost never mention his sexuality unless the scene calls for it.
My turn to piss off half the forum, I think, but I can’t abide The Office, so I wouldn’t know about that one.

David in Six Feet Under is the best I can think of, and that’s not saying much.

I swear, if they promo this superhero series with a commercial that basically focuses on saying, "He has superpowers...and he's GAY!" then the whole thing will likely flop.
Yup. And they probably will.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
But he's not dressed in women's clothing...
That got a real-life LOL, not just a smiley.
     
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Jan 14, 2009, 04:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
My turn to piss off half the forum, I think, but I can’t abide The Office, so I wouldn’t know about that one.

David in Six Feet Under is the best I can think of, and that’s not saying much.
I've never seen Six Feet Under. Wasn't he the same guy that plays Dexter, or am I mistaken on that one?
     
Oisín
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Jan 14, 2009, 04:27 PM
 
Yup, that’s the one.
     
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Jawbone54  (op)
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Jan 14, 2009, 04:34 PM
 
A horrible, horrible question popped into my mind after seeing that last post...
     
starman
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Jan 14, 2009, 04:38 PM
 
Ok, here's another example:

BSG spoiler:

 


So again, here's a character made to be gay for what? Just so the producers can give themselves an "attaboy"?

B5 had a character that was gay and it worked because it didn't feel forced...like "HERE'S OUR GAY CHARACTER".

I don't care if people are gay or not, it's just not my thing. I also don't pick my nose, but some do, but that doesn't mean we need producers showing nose-picking people on TV just 'cuz. That's what bothers me about this "first gay superhero" thing. It doesn't seem to exist except to service Marvel and make themselves feel better about themselves.

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Jan 14, 2009, 04:39 PM
 
Batman did. And he enjoyed it, by the look on his face.
     
 
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