[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by OAW 

No my friend. You said "outspend". Seems like a reminder is in order since there appears to be a case of convenient amnesia going on ....

You're right, I shouldn't have said outspend more than Bush in a quarter of the time, but he is indeed spending more.

But you did make the statement about spending above. I challenged it and showed it to be false. Simple as that.

You're right, I did make the statement. I'm not sure I'm wrong. Remember, this is a budget. Did Bush budget for anything other than government being government? Like in 2001 for example?

You make a good point. I'm just on the side of the fence that believes that resuscitative spending was necessary ... despite its imperfections. Doing nothing would have made the situation even worse.

It's going to have to get bad. That's what I'm saying. All we're doing is easing symptoms while we push the problem into the future IMO. As cold as it sounds, the collective in this country doesn't know what "pain" and "poor" is, but we're going to find out if we don't start making harder choices now.

What I'm saying is that Congress is not inclined to address entitlements and defense spending. Neither Democrats nor Republicans. Any talk about "reducing government spending" is simply blowing smoke and political posturing if these areas which comprise 85% of federal spending are not on the table. And let's just be honest here ... these programs are popular, and neither Democrats nor Republicans want to touch them with a 10 foot pole.

There's a difference between "not touching them with a 10 foot pole" and doubling down on them. The last thing you want to do with a program you supposedly loathe is add measures to it that make people more dependent upon its existence.

No not at all. Bush put his signature tax cuts through using reconciliation. A procedure that doesn't require a 60 vote majority in the Senate. Let's not get it twisted and try to imply that Bush was "more effective at reaching across the aisle".

I was actually implying more that Bush was able to reach at least to the end of his own party. Obama wasn't able to unite a super-majority. This is different. I don't think the current measures being discussed in terms of reconciliation would even get 51 votes quite frankly.

PAY-GO says that new government legislation should be paid for, either by new revenues (taxes) or savings (spending cuts). It does not specify, as you imply, that it is only about raising taxes.

C'mon OAW. Seriously. I don't even know where to start with this.

When I asked you the question "What would you suggest?" I was hoping that you would offer something substantive as an alternative. Fiscal responsibility? Saying this is akin to talking about "baseball, mom, and apple pie". It's a platitude and nothing more.

Well... pulling folks out of Afghanistan if we have to for example in order to finally secure victory in the battles that rage on our own borders every day for one. Complete and utter lock-down until we get our hands around the incredible number of unskilled workers we have in this country. This, combined with a complete overhaul of a ridiculously complicated tax structure that allows the big dogs loopholes while hamstringing the small dogs. A flat sales tax would begin to collect from those who would simply send their dollars across the border. We've already been up and down and all around my preferred alternatives for health care. Forget trying to reform an industry with a 3.3% profit margin, it's time to reform government. Privately managed audit of all government operations. Forget these hired-hands put in place for oversight such as NHTSA which is obviously not worth the paper used to draft their pay checks. Instead, we run Toyota through the ringers because they don't contribute to BIG LABOR all the while interviewing the head of NHTSA for what... 3 minutes?!? I'm not giving Toyota a pass, but if this isn't yet another example of a government entity we pay to do something it is obviously not doing, I don't know what is. Enough. We need aggressive business-friendly legislation that lowers capital gains taxes and corporate taxes that in many states is higher than just about anywhere else on the globe.

These just to name a few off the top of my head.