[Kerrigan]

While Obama is out trying (not unsuccessfully) to start the "race war" his supporters are clamoring for, an interesting shift has occurred. In the past month, a thirty five percent swing has occurred among New York voters who are Jewish, to the point where McCain leads 55% to 32%.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/bl...odhoretz/31061

What is it about Obama that is driving this traditionally Democrat-voting demographic to the Republican candidate?

And furthermore, what is it that is turning traditional true-blue states like NY and NJ into near toss-ups for McCain? It is unfathomable to think that a state like NY is within five points of the Republican candidate's reach.

[SSharon]

Granted I don't know every Jew in the state, but I haven't really encountered this at all.
I'm Jewish and I live in NY and I'm not the biggest McCain fan.

[besson3c]

What is this thread supposed to accomplish? Is it supposed to change minds? If that is your intent, speaking only for myself, these sorts of threads work strongly against these goals.

[Kerrigan]

What is your post supposed to accomplish, Besson? This thread reports the first time in modern history that the Jewish demographic in an influential state like NY has favored a Republican, and speculates on how the dynamics of the race are more complicated and less predictable than we think. You, as in every discussion, are attempting to play the role of Socrates but not quite getting anywhere.

[paul w]

Somehow I don't buy it, but what do I know - I live in New York, spend a lot of time in the Jewish community, work in an industry dominated by Jews - and while I can certainly can how see Jews could be wary of Obama, the reality is it's just not the case in my experience.

Nope, it's strictly Obamamania here.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

What is your post supposed to accomplish, Besson? This thread reports the first time in modern history that the Jewish demographic in an influential state like NY has favored a Republican, and speculates on how the dynamics of the race are more complicated and less predictable than we think. You, as in every discussion, are attempting to play the role of Socrates but not quite getting anywhere.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but somehow I predict this thread is just going to become yet another pointless partisan cheerleader thread.

Carry on though, I won't interrupt.

[OldManMac]

John Podhoretz, son of neocon Norman Podhoretz, and Commentary Magazine; now there are some impartial sources for you!

[Doofy]

OK Kerri, let's actually speculate about your original post instead of whining like a bunch of partisan Dems.

Could it possibly be that Jewish folks are, on the whole, a bunch of clever folks and as such don't quite like Obama's tax plans?

[mduell]

Obama has a 14 point margin and a 98% probability of winning NY... not really in play.

[BRussell]

I love Kerrigan's threads. There can be 483 polls all showing one thing - for example, that Jews support Obama over McCain by a sizable margin - and Kerrigan will start a new thread about the one poll that shows something different.

[Big Mac]

Jews mostly live like Republicans while voting like Democrats. It will be interesting to see if there's an appreciable change in Jewish voting patterns this time around, though, as the Democratic party has moved far to the Jew-hating left and nominated a far-left wing candidate with deep ties to radical Jew-haters and Jew-hating ideology. I do know that a large segment of my co-religionists was quite dissatisfied with Hillary's loss to BHO (but why they love her is another mystery).

[besson3c]

Kerrigan: I guess I called it, huh? Time to get out my pom poms and short skirt!

[Big Mac]

I apologize in advance for the Jews who choose to vote for Obama-Biden.

[brassplayersrock²]

besson: useless without pics

[Paco500]

Withdrawn.

[Big Mac]

B.S.. Just stating facts.

[besson3c]

Paco500: I think it is wise to not be a part of the cheerleading, hypocricy, and general vitriol... It's both exhausting and corrosive. Good decision!

[AllegedNews]

All the Jews I know, that includes family, are voting McCain.

I think a lot of Jews see the hypocrisy of the left. Including Jackie Mason. Jews aren't stupid.

Obama's Fraud

Why Michelle Obama is a Liar

[Big Mac]

Same for my immediate family, although I have hard-left relatives in San Fran who would probably vote for Hitler if he apologized and had a D next to his name. There's also some retarded Jews who regard all Republicans as evil.

[ort888]

Stupid Democrats. Why are they always so stupid?

[AllegedNews]

I used to be a Democrat.

Then they became socialist-leaning peri-fascists that cater to the thumb-sucking whiners with entitlement mentalities.

I switched parties.

[Dual Porpoise]

Originally Posted by AllegedNews 

I used to be a Democrat.

Then they became socialist-leaning peri-fascists that cater to the thumb-sucking whiners with entitlement mentalities.

I switched parties.

To the Republicans? Those corporate socialist-leaning peri-fascists that cater to the thumb-sucking whiners with corporate entitlement mentalities? Wow.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by AllegedNews 

All the Jews I know, that includes family, are voting McCain.

I think a lot of Jews see the hypocrisy of the left. Including Jackie Mason. Jews aren't stupid.

Obama's Fraud

Why Michelle Obama is a Liar

Kerrigan made a dummy account so he could agree with himself?

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Dual Porpoise 

To the Republicans? Those corporate socialist-leaning peri-fascists that cater to the thumb-sucking whiners with corporate entitlement mentalities? Wow.

There has been just as much corporate welfare under the Democratic Congress, and electing a partisan who votes in lock-step 97% of the time with his party is no way to combat spending excess in that regard or any other. Can you give me one prominent example in which BHO has stood up against his party?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

There's also some retarded Jews who regard all Republicans as evil.

If I was retarded, I wouldn't vote for a Republican either. Traditionally Democrats favor increase in social wellfare programs, I'd want to make sure whatever hospital I'm at is properly funded to take care of me. America has a tendency to throw people on the street when they have a mental disability.

[ort888]

I read somewhere that B Hussein O is going to declare war on Israel as soon as he is elected. That's why he is so eager to meet with Ahmadinejad.

Any Jew that votes for B Hussein O might as well be stabbing a knife in their own back. It's that bad.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by big mac 

there has been more corporate welfare under the republican party, and electing a partisan who votes in lock-step 90+% of the time with his party is no way to combat spending excess in that regard or any other.

fify

http://www.time.com/time/politics/ar...iid=digg_share

[vmarks]

http://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/s...ronghold-ever/

Supports the thesis of the original poster in other areas of the country.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

There's also some retarded Jews...

There's not such a thing

[subego]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

If I was retarded, I wouldn't vote for a Republican either.

That was a good one. You get a laugh point.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I read somewhere that B Hussein O is going to declare war on Israel as soon as he is elected. That's why he is so eager to meet with Ahmadinejad.

Any Jew that votes for B Hussein O might as well be stabbing a knife in their own back. It's that bad.

You've been on a roll lately.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by AllegedNews 

Jews aren't stupid.

Quote of the day

[AllegedNews]

ort888 (can't forget the "888")

I read somewhere that B Hussein O is going to declare war on Israel as soon as he is elected. That's why he is so eager to meet with Ahmadinejad.

Any Jew that votes for B Hussein O might as well be stabbing a knife in their own back. It's that bad.

Now that is the quote of the day.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I read somewhere that B Hussein O is going to declare war on Israel as soon as he is elected. That's why he is so eager to meet with Ahmadinejad.

Actually, it was he position of one of his foreign policy advisors that the US should declare war on Israel.

Samantha Power was his senior foreign policy advisor. Obama sought her out after reading her book on genocide. Power subscribes to the Walt-Mearshimer view of the world, that Jews control everything. She believes that Israel caused the US to go to war in Iraq. She also advocated sending US troops to Israel to stand with Palestinians and fight against Israelis, effectively declaring war on Israel.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c

What is this thread supposed to accomplish? Is it supposed to change minds? If that is your intent, speaking only for myself, these sorts of threads work strongly against these goals.

Kind of like all of your anti-republican threads?

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but somehow I predict this thread is just going to become yet another pointless partisan cheerleader thread.

Carry on though, I won't interrupt.

O rly?

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Kerrigan: I guess I called it, huh? Time to get out my pom poms and short skirt!

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Paco500: I think it is wise to not be a part of the cheerleading, hypocricy, and general vitriol... It's both exhausting and corrosive. Good decision!

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

Actually, it was he position of one of his foreign policy advisors that the US should declare war on Israel.

Samantha Power was his senior foreign policy advisor. Obama sought her out after reading her book on genocide. Power subscribes to the Walt-Mearshimer view of the world, that Jews control everything. She believes that Israel caused the US to go to war in Iraq. She also advocated sending US troops to Israel to stand with Palestinians and fight against Israelis, effectively declaring war on Israel.

Ignoring the part in italics....

Smart woman.

But, do you have anything on that part in Italics? Your word on something isn't worth much.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Ignoring the part in italics....

Smart woman.

But, do you have anything on that part in Italics? Your word on something isn't worth much.

My word is as good as it always has been, honest and correct.

The woman is clearly mistaken. Israel had nothing to do with the US war in Iraq. Israel actually preferred the US not go to war in Iraq. Having the US declare war on Israel is also inadvisable, and definitely not a well-thought out position. That you think she's a smart woman based on those two positions is frankly scary.

At the same time, it's encouraging that you don't seem to subscribe to the Walt-Mearshimer nonsense.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/bl...hp/pollak/2085 quotes from an interview with Power where she points to special interests and Israel guiding foreign policy.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/bl...hp/pollak/2093 also has her saying "Putting something on the line might mean alienating a domestic constituency of tremendous political and financial import..." which is pretty much the same as Walt-Mearshimer, where the notion is that there's a certain 'domestic constituency', or Jewish Lobby, that one simply doesn't alienate.

[Big Mac]

I have always found the radical leftist and radical Muslim claims of an all powerful Jewish lobby controlling the United States government to be not only false but laughably absurd. If such a thing existed as is claimed, how can one explain things like the Jimmy Carter presidency? Or what about the historical anti-Jewish bias of the State Department? Or the sales of high technological military systems to Arab regimes like Saudi Arabia? Or what about the historic shift away from classic U.S. foreign policy with the Clinton administration's backing for yet another Arab state to be carved out of the modern, diminutive state of Israel (calls continued by the supposedly very pro-Israel President G.W.B.)? If Jews really controlled America to any considerable extent, none of those events and policies would have been allowed to see the light of day.

[Kerrigan]

Sometimes I wonder if Allah's Sword has received formalized religious conversion education, and if so, what sorts of misleading geo-political analyses are associated with that instruction. There is nothing quite like religion to cause one to suspend one's critical capacity, and there are none quite so adept as the converts at the art of equivocation, since it is a logical fallacy they must make use of at all time in order to stave off the sense of cognitive dissonance that is otherwise the result of adhering to a rigorous, alien belief system.

[Big Mac]

Well said, Kerrigan. And I think you're right. Here's an apropos story: A couple of years ago I actually ran into a former Jew who knew me many years ago, recognized me and said with he that he had become a Muslim. He then proceeded to rattle off every single piece of Muslim propaganda under the sun, and he even adopted a faux-Arab accent to boot.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

My word is as good as it always has been, honest and correct.

Wow, you really think highly of yourself don't you?

No one is always correct. Learn some humility will you.

The woman is clearly mistaken. Israel had nothing to do with the US war in Iraq. Israel actually preferred the US not go to war in Iraq.

Got anything to back that up?

Having the US declare war on Israel is also inadvisable, and definitely not a well-thought out position. That you think she's a smart woman based on those two positions is frankly scary.

If your prime objective is the safety of American citizens a quick and proper solution to the Palestinian Question is your best bet. Anything else is not thinking of American citizens first and foremost.

At the same time, it's encouraging that you don't seem to subscribe to the Walt-Mearshimer nonsense.

You mean I don't subscribe to what you think it means or that I don't subscribe to what they say it means? There's quite a difference between the two.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/bl...hp/pollak/2085 quotes from an interview with Power where she points to special interests and Israel guiding foreign policy.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/bl...hp/pollak/2093 also has her saying "Putting something on the line might mean alienating a domestic constituency of tremendous political and financial import..." which is pretty much the same as Walt-Mearshimer, where the notion is that there's a certain 'domestic constituency', or Jewish Lobby, that one simply doesn't alienate.

Wow, that's a stretch. Could you provide something other than blog as to examples of her supporting (your version) of Walt-Mearshimer.

And to be honest, you are actually proving her point.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

If your prime objective is the safety of American citizens a quick and proper solution to the Palestinian Question is your best bet. Anything else is not thinking of American citizens first and foremost.

I understand why this scenario appeals to you from a revenge porn standpoint, but run through the calculus that concludes with declaring war on democracies armed with nuclear weapons will make us safer.

Some people attacked us a few years back... do you feel safer?


Edit: I seem to recall you don't live in America, if you do, of course that last question won't apply in quite the way it's intended.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by subego 

I understand why this scenario appeals to you from a revenge porn standpoint, but run through the calculus that arrives at declaring war on democracies armed with nuclear weapons will make us safer.

You don't need to declare war. Just declare that you recognize Palestine within the '69 borders and say you'll protect Palestinian interests there.

If Israel then declares war, then so be it. It will be one of few Just Wars the US takes part.

Some people attacked us a few years back... do you feel safer?


Edit: I seem to recall you aren't American, if you are, of course that last question won't apply in quite the way it's intended.

I've always feel safe. Where ever I go. Terrorist attacks here and there don't scare me. There's next to zero chance suffering from one.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

I've always feel safe. Where ever I go. Terrorist attacks here and there don't scare me. There's next to zero chance suffering from one.

It's unfortunate that more people don't realize that.

Edit; along that vein, here's a precursor to what's coming to many American cities, due to the hysteria that has now enveloped the fearful., as a result of the over reaction to a few random events. http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ons/index.html

[subego]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ons/index.html

I think the moral of that story is drive to work.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

I've always feel safe. Where ever I go. Terrorist attacks here and there don't scare me. There's next to zero chance suffering from one.

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

It's unfortunate that more people don't realize that.

Just to be clear, when I said safer, I wasn't talking about being safer from terrorists.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by subego 

I think the moral of that story is drive to work.

You're right; the police have never heard of roadblocks.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

It's unfortunate that more people don't realize that.

Indeed. But then, it's better for politicians to keep people afraid. It's easier to stay in power that way.

Edit; along that vein, here's a precursor to what's coming to many American cities, due to the hysteria that has now enveloped the fearful., as a result of the over reaction to a few random events. http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ons/index.html

Heh, I'd really like to see how big a percentage of the Arab/Muslim-looking population will be "randomly" searched compared to other groups.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

You don't need to declare war. Just declare that you recognize Palestine within the '69 borders and say you'll protect Palestinian interests there.

Sounds like World War III to me.

Pretty much the ultimate fail as far as safety is concerned.

[subego]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

You're right; the police have never heard of roadblocks.

They'll be busy profiling people on the train.

Remember folks, when you see a cop that's pulled someone over, that's one less cop who cares if you're speeding or not.