[abbasmuraj]

Have just got a new powerbook running osx and microsoft office mac. one of the selling points that made me switch to Mac from PCs was that I was told that mac do not get viruses. is that true? i will be ussing entourage as my email package and do not want to risk people sending me attachments with viruses.

If a anti-virus software is advisabel to install, which one to use? Are there andy good free ones available?

[alphasubzero949]

Search the forum.

[Cold Warrior]

yes to searching, no to installing antivirus.

[TETENAL]

Windows viruses don't affect Mac. Office macro viruses might work (though I think that usually they don't and this would be the exception).

http://www.markallan.co.uk/clamXav/

ClamXav is free. If you want to you can use it to scan your drive for viruses. You will eventually find Windows viruses in your mail/spam. The Mac can store these viruses like it stores any other kind of data, but these viruses are not active on Mac.

[jay3ld]

there are no viruses for macs.
BUT!!!!!!!
virus can be hosted from macs. if a virus is put on a mac and a pc connects and downloads that virus the pc can get it. thats what a anti virus really is for mac. were helping out pc users and they dont thanks us

im not 100% sure but i think there are a few Trojans though... someone could verify that because i havnt seen one but heard about some.

[Anubis IV]

Originally Posted by jay3ld

there are no viruses for macs.
im not 100% sure but i think there are a few Trojans though... someone could verify that because i havnt seen one but heard about some.

There are a few proof-of-concept ones out there, but there has never been a real threat in the wild.

Originally Posted by abbasmuraj

i will be ussing entourage as my email package

Might I suggest switching over to using Mail? Apple really did a great job with it, and it's much easier to use than Entourage. I used Entourage (and before that, Outlook Express) for years and finally made the switch to Mail a few months back after I helped set it up for my mother on her computer. Incredibly quick, easy, and intuitive. And if you need the calendar part of Entourage there is always iCal (which I've also started using since it's so much better than the Entourage calendar).

Anyway, the first time you launch Mail it should prompt you to import your e-mail from Entourage. Apple really made it very easy to switch.

[rickey939]

I don't have any protection.

[ghporter]

Rickey, EVERYBODY needs protection!

But at this point in time, there are no active viruses that can affect Mac OS X, and a lot of people think it's a waste of time and money to buy and install an antivirus program. I am NOT one of them. There are, as was mentioned, viruses that can piggyback on your email and infect Windows users that you may know. And there is always the possibility that The Mac Virus can pop up, and a good AV package doesn't just look at "known viruses" but also at "virus type activity." Even though I know that the chance of a Mac virus showing up tomorrow is very low, I think it's worth my time and a relatively small expenditure to install and keep up AV on our iBook.

[NeilCharter]

I have installed ClamXAV on my mac and it seems to be okay. Plan to add it to my other computer soon too.

Sooner or later some idiot geek is going to release a virus for the mac. There's sure to some holes around. Of course not as many as for Windows

Best bet is to be prepared. And if you're concerned that you will be spreading viruses to PCs then you should use some anti-virus software.

Point of note: if your email service is IMAP like .mac, you can spread viruses without the virus ever being downloaded to your mac. The ISP / mail server should in reality check all mail for suspicious activity.

[MindFad]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: hell no.

[Gavin]

Don't bother.

Yes, it's true that Macs don't get viruses.

And it's not because of the market share, that's a myth. UNIX was designed from the start as a multi-user network OS. It's had security as standard equipment from birth. The proof is that Linux with a much smaller user base used to have a few viruses right after it started getting popular. They quickly closed the few open doors and now Linux, OS X and all UNIX systems ship with the lid on tight.

Occasionally someone will find a potential way to break into something. These are almost always fixed before they can really be taken advantage of with a security update.

[Jacob]

HAHAHHAA.. no viruses...lol

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Gavin

Don't bother.

Yes, it's true that Macs don't get viruses.

And it's not because of the market share, that's a myth. UNIX was designed from the start as a multi-user network OS. It's had security as standard equipment from birth. The proof is that Linux with a much smaller user base used to have a few viruses right after it started getting popular. They quickly closed the few open doors and now Linux, OS X and all UNIX systems ship with the lid on tight.

Occasionally someone will find a potential way to break into something. These are almost always fixed before they can really be taken advantage of with a security update.

Nothing is perfect, and you may have noticed that some of Apple's software updates have been titled "Security Update," which should clue you in.

OS X is MUCH MORE RESISTANT to intrusions and malware, but it is not "immune." Nothing is, nothing can be. However, there IS a serious component of "there aren't enough people using Macs to make it worth jacking with them" involved in what virus writers write. And often viruses aren't actually "written" as much as pasted together using virus creation tools that-surprise!-are Windows based. In other words, it's easier and more (malicious) "fun" to write Windows viruses. For now, anyway.

However, anyone who wishes to believe that Macs will NEVER have any virus whatsoever may continue to do so. They may also continue to walk into dark alleys in bad parts of town, fail to wear their seat belts, and not brush after meals. It's all the same sort of thing.

[alphasubzero949]

Originally Posted by ghporter

However, there IS a serious component of "there aren't enough people using Macs to make it worth jacking with them" involved in what virus writers write.

BS. It's been tried. Right now the only ways to infect an OS X box is to (1) gain physical access and (2) install rootkit, for which again, see (1).

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

BS. It's been tried. Right now the only ways to infect an OS X box is to (1) gain physical access and (2) install rootkit, for which again, see (1).

The highlighted part is the key-what's possible tomorrow may be something very different. I prefer being safe to being sorry.

[Gavin]

Originally Posted by gavin

Occasionally someone will find a potential way to break into something. These are almost always fixed before they can really be taken advantage of with a security update.

Originally Posted by ghporter

Nothing is perfect, and you may have noticed that some of Apple's software updates have been titled "Security Update," which should clue you in.

Funny, you're basically agreeing with me, but in a "I disagree even though I agree" kind of tone.

Originally Posted by ghporter

Nothing is, nothing can be. However, there IS a serious component of "there aren't enough people using Macs to make it worth jacking with them" involved in what virus writers write. And often viruses aren't actually "written" as much as pasted together using virus creation tools that-surprise!-are Windows based. In other words, it's easier and more (malicious) "fun" to write Windows viruses. For now, anyway.

May be true of the copy cats but they are not the threat. The problem is the guys who find the holes in the first place. These dorks are in it for the glory. Just imagine the mental boner waiting for the first guy to burn the mac. Market share is not relevant. Another windows virus, big deal. "First Mac Virus" will lead the 6:00 news. Guys from Symantec will be on CNBC talking doom for a week.

Think how many viruses there are for windows, even excluding the variations on a known exploit. Now consider the fact that windows code is closed and secret. The exploits have been found by some very clever people who figure out the holes by working blind from the outside. They have found hundreds. With OS X the full source code of the underlying system including the networking stack is available for download. Even with this guide in hand, not one virus. It's not that people are not trying. The architecture is simply tougher to crack. And it's the nature of open source that good guys doing legitimate work find and patch the holes first. Which is what I referred to regarding updates in my previous post.

You are right about the windows world and it's "easy home virus kit" phenomenon making up the bulk of actual attacks. But the script kiddies are really just a symptom. If you can't hack it in the first place then there is nothing to base a script on for them to use.

Originally Posted by ghporter

For now, anyway.

Ahh, the key to the whole conversation.

In this thread we are speaking of the present situation. You don't need virus software now. There currently are none for the mac and none on the radar. If by chance some show up then by all means install something to fight it, but that time has not come.

Originally Posted by ghporter

However, anyone who wishes to believe that Macs will NEVER have any virus whatsoever may continue to do so. They may also continue to walk into dark alleys in bad parts of town, fail to wear their seat belts, and not brush after meals. It's all the same sort of thing.

Oh my god! You mean the sky is falling?


No one here said any such thing. But be realistic, if a virus does show up on this side of the fence a few people will get stung and everyone else will download a scanner over the next couple of weeks. Nothing so dramatic as knife through the chest behind a speakeasy, more like gassy indigestion in front of the in-laws. Actually this is one aspect where being in the minority does help. A virus simply can't propagate mac to mac as quickly as it does with windows because it's less likely to find something to infect.

[Sven G]

ClamXav is an interesting program (and it's even free software), but it is very, very slow: the Sentry real-time protection feature takes forever to scan incoming emails or big archives downloaded to the Desktop.

If it could be speeded up considerably, it would be the best AV program out there: in other words, it should become more similar to AVG (for Windows) to be really useful...

[Millennium]

It is wise to install anti-virus protection on any computer, Macs included. Right now, an anti-virus program isn't going to find much interesting on a Mac (unless you run Classic or VirtualPC), but just getting one reflects an understanding that even though Mac security far outstrips that of Windows, we're not invincible. Viruses for OSX will appear someday, assuming OSX survives long enough, and it is best to be prepared for that.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Millennium

It is wise to install anti-virus protection on any computer, Macs included. Right now, an anti-virus program isn't going to find much interesting on a Mac […] Viruses for OSX will appear someday

It suffices to install anti-virus protection that day. Before that it is a waste of my time.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

It suffices to install anti-virus protection that day. Before that it is a waste of my time.

Ah, but grasshopper, on that day people will be rushing to get the software. Boxes in stores and bandwidth on sites will both be scarce. Will you be able to get it in time? Maybe, maybe not. Better to be prepared now.

[Gavin]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Viruses for OSX will appear someday, assuming OSX survives long enough, and it is best to be prepared for that.

That got me thinking.

It could be that with changes made to the infrastructure of the Internet, viruses will find it harder to propagate. Mail servers are gradually adding functionality to strip them out and so are routers and firewalls. Eventually you will have it built into the hardware in your dsl/cable modem, it will update itself. The point being that end users will be protected from themselves in an unobtrusive way. Also consider that the next windows much as we make fun of it, will have tighter security and that means less boxes taken over, less zombies to operate from, however marginally. It all adds up to a less vulnerable Internet as a whole.

It just might be that OS X never sees a virus, but for reasons that have nothing to do with OS X.

I'm seeing a similar shift right now in the way spammers operate. More ISPs now have fairly good spam blocking. The major email servers, if not all, ship with relaying turned off. It's much harder to find open relays. So the spamers are now turning to hacking forms on websites in order to get their junk into the email system. This is going on over the last couple of moths and has really kicked in in the last 10 days. They are also resorting to using low cost eastern european and S.E. Asian labor to manually spam people from guest books and contact forms. So while spam is still profitable it's getting hard and more labor intensive to accomplish.

It may well be that we are within a couple years of licking this kind of BS entirely.

Right now the best reason I have heard for having virus software on a mac is to strip them out of email attachments not to protect you but to keep it from somehow being forwarded to a windows machine.

Remember that scanners only protect against the last virus, not the new virus. Even people with the software running and up to date will still get nailed. It can take some time, maybe several days for a new virus to be added to the list. With that in mind it only makes sense to bother with such software if there already are viruses out there. During the time it takes you to react to the first mac virus by downloading clamavX you are no more vulnerable than someone already running software.

You are better off spending your time and money on a good backup solution. Could we be hit, of course, vastly more likely than Vegas being destroyed by an astroid. Realistically, as it stands you are much more likely to have a dog pee on your laptop and um.. hose the drive, than get a mac virus. Back it up.

[NeilCharter]

Originally Posted by Gavin

That got me thinking.

It could be that with changes made to the infrastructure of the Internet, viruses will find it harder to propagate. Mail servers are gradually adding functionality to strip them out and so are routers and firewalls. Eventually you will have it built into the hardware in your dsl/cable modem, it will update itself. The point being that end users will be protected from themselves in an unobtrusive way. Also consider that the next windows much as we make fun of it, will have tighter security and that means less boxes taken over, less zombies to operate from, however marginally. It all adds up to a less vulnerable Internet as a whole.

It just might be that OS X never sees a virus, but for reasons that have nothing to do with OS X.

I'm seeing a similar shift right now in the way spammers operate. More ISPs now have fairly good spam blocking. The major email servers, if not all, ship with relaying turned off. It's much harder to find open relays. So the spamers are now turning to hacking forms on websites in order to get their junk into the email system. This is going on over the last couple of moths and has really kicked in in the last 10 days. They are also resorting to using low cost eastern european and S.E. Asian labor to manually spam people from guest books and contact forms. So while spam is still profitable it's getting hard and more labor intensive to accomplish.

It may well be that we are within a couple years of licking this kind of BS entirely.

Right now the best reason I have heard for having virus software on a mac is to strip them out of email attachments not to protect you but to keep it from somehow being forwarded to a windows machine.

Remember that scanners only protect against the last virus, not the new virus. Even people with the software running and up to date will still get nailed. It can take some time, maybe several days for a new virus to be added to the list. With that in mind it only makes sense to bother with such software if there already are viruses out there. During the time it takes you to react to the first mac virus by downloading clamavX you are no more vulnerable than someone already running software.

You are better off spending your time and money on a good backup solution. Could we be hit, of course, vastly more likely than Vegas being destroyed by an astroid. Realistically, as it stands you are much more likely to have a dog pee on your laptop and um.. hose the drive, than get a mac virus. Back it up.

You have a good point that internet providers are doing a better job at screening for viruses and that will certainly reduce the pain for private windows users. Corporate users should already be protected though it does seem that some are not.

A question I have is whether ISP will be bothered with paying extra for protection for Mac OS X users. They may not think it is worth the extra cost to provide that for the small number of clients they hve (even if that number is growing significantly nowadays).

Here's the thing, there is a free open source application for checking viruses. Once it gets popular, Apple will probably bundle it into their client OS.

I don't think it is wise to ignore the risk of viruses. Whilst that risk is extremely low at the moment, some wise arse may feel that OS X is a worthy challenge and make something to could do a lot of damage.

I agree backup is important too. Now with DVD RW drives on both of my machines, I have regular backups for User data and my music collection. And with ClamXAV, I have some virus protection too.

[Gavin]

Originally Posted by NeilCharter

A question I have is whether ISP will be bothered with paying extra for protection for Mac OS X users. They may not think it is worth the extra cost to provide that for the small number of clients they hve (even if that number is growing significantly nowadays).

Wouldn't it be just one more entry in the list they download every night? I think a virus signature is a virus signature.

Originally Posted by NeilCharter

Here's the thing, there is a free open source application for checking viruses. Once it gets popular, Apple will probably bundle it into their client OS.

Weren't they were giving something away with .mac?

Is ClamAV GNU? I think apple only include software with BSD licensing. Like we get curl not wget.

Originally Posted by NeilCharter

I don't think it is wise to ignore the risk of viruses. Whilst that risk is extremely low at the moment, some wise arse may feel that OS X is a worthy challenge and make something to could do a lot of damage.

I just don't think it would ever hit as hard as a windows virus for reasons stated above. Plus one more, the multi user system. On a UNIX system an email virus for instance runs in your user space, a "sandbox"; the idea is that every user plays in his own sandbox and can't affect others. Such a virus can't harm system files or the network etc. Generally the worst it can do is destroy your personal user files (hence the backup) and pass itself along to another computer. Other user accounts would be safe. Just reboot and log into into another user and you're fixed. Now a worm is another issue because that could affect a server process, but a scanner won't help much against that except to remove it after you are hit, more of a firewall issue. That's where the system updates come in.

I'm not trying to trivialize the threat but like I said, scanner software is really only effective against existing legacy viruses and we don't have any. For now a good firewall is more useful.

Hmm.. how about a FAT virus that has both windows and mac virus code. Now that might do some damage because it could use the windows world to propagate. You'd have to be damn clever to pull that off.

Originally Posted by NeilCharter

I agree backup is important too. Now with DVD RW drives on both of my machines, I have regular backups for User data and my music collection. And with ClamXAV, I have some virus protection too.

The main problem now is that the data on my 400GB drive doesn't fit on a DVD. Or even 10 DVDs

[budster101]

Where is James? He should read this thread.