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Elektrix · Oct 13, 2006, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by mini.boss

But they are the only company selling premium models at higher prices without updating specs to match the current market.

And thats the point. They came out high end with a reasonable price, but that was a long time ago and since then even the most budget systems have caught up and surpassed apple in most features. I'm not saying we shouldnt pay a premium to go Mac, but if they're not going to update specs then why is it so offensive to expect them to at least lower prices?

The MacBook Pro's only weaknesses right now are slightly smaller standard HD and RAM configurations and a Core Duo instead of Core 2 Duo..... but it hardly puts them on the level of budget systems. Note that a lot of those budget systems you see with 2 gigs of RAM and 160 gig hard drives, etc. are also using a lot of cheap components to get to that level.

brutal · Oct 13, 2006, 03:29 AM

I just got a mail from Apple about a new Macbook promo that ends Dec 31st. Isn't this usually a sign that the Macbooks won't be updated until then?

drnkn_stylz · Oct 13, 2006, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by brutal

I just got a mail from Apple about a new Macbook promo that ends Dec 31st. Isn't this usually a sign that the Macbooks won't be updated until then?

I don't think I got that email... Or at least not yet. Can you post what it said?

Elektrix · Oct 13, 2006, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by brutal

I just got a mail from Apple about a new Macbook promo that ends Dec 31st. Isn't this usually a sign that the Macbooks won't be updated until then?

It depends on what the promo is. If it's one of those things like a free printer or accessory along with an MBP, it doesn't necessarily mean it would be affected by an MBP update.

emark · Oct 13, 2006, 11:40 AM

finally, a little common / business sense injected into the thread.

Apple is a publicly run company...it has shareholders!!!

See this article and note the words "operating margins" and "profits per share"...

http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/12/tech...ce=yahoo_quote

You know they've got a sweetheart deal with Intel right now in light of their recent big news switch, and being the only PC manufacturer that is an all-Intel shop (which is rumored to be changing at some point...but not real soon...good to have a little leverage...) If they're business model depended on the C2D to hit they're goals they'd be putting it in. My guess is they're taking advantage of low low pricing on the older chips scratching Intel's back on inventory...not as an earlier poster thought clearing out their own excess inventory. They don't have lots of excess inventory...modern businesses don't run that way!!!! So they're helping their own bottom line to a greater degree than the very few sales that are lost (or more likely delayed) for the few people who will wait.

Believe me, they have a couple rooms of spreadsheet pushin' MBA analysts who do nothing but look at this stuff all day long...You aren't a visionary seeing things they haven't thought through thoroughly.

Of course they could drop a C2D into the laptops...but at what cost and to what degree would that increase sales? If you actually took time to read the above article or other info you'd know that they're again having a record sales quarter supported by mac computers...not just iPod strength.

Just hold your horses, it will be in the next few weeks to a month...and, really it has only been about 6 weeks that the core 2 duos have been shipping in Windows PCs...product announcements were all around the last couple days of August.

I agree that there are wholes in the lineup still, though the overall lineup is better than ever...but just like I still have a soft spot for my Newton and some other long-gone Apple tech that was put by the wayside, they will do what is best for the bottom line as any well-run company would do.

Elektrix · Oct 13, 2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by emark

finally, a little common / business sense injected into the thread.

Apple is a publicly run company...it has shareholders!!!

See this article and note the words "operating margins" and "profits per share"...

Apple, IBM and Intel set to lead tech earnings - Oct. 13, 2006

You know they've got a sweetheart deal with Intel right now in light of their recent big news switch, and being the only PC manufacturer that is an all-Intel shop (which is rumored to be changing at some point...but not real soon...good to have a little leverage...) If they're business model depended on the C2D to hit they're goals they'd be putting it in. My guess is they're taking advantage of low low pricing on the older chips scratching Intel's back on inventory...not as an earlier poster thought clearing out their own excess inventory. They don't have lots of excess inventory...modern businesses don't run that way!!!! So they're helping their own bottom line to a greater degree than the very few sales that are lost (or more likely delayed) for the few people who will wait.

Believe me, they have a couple rooms of spreadsheet pushin' MBA analysts who do nothing but look at this stuff all day long...You aren't a visionary seeing things they haven't thought through thoroughly.

Of course they could drop a C2D into the laptops...but at what cost and to what degree would that increase sales? If you actually took time to read the above article or other info you'd know that they're again having a record sales quarter supported by mac computers...not just iPod strength.

Just hold your horses, it will be in the next few weeks to a month...and, really it has only been about 6 weeks that the core 2 duos have been shipping in Windows PCs...product announcements were all around the last couple days of August.

I agree that there are wholes in the lineup still, though the overall lineup is better than ever...but just like I still have a soft spot for my Newton and some other long-gone Apple tech that was put by the wayside, they will do what is best for the bottom line as any well-run company would do.

Interesting points, although one question....

Based on what you described here, why did Apple put the Core 2 Duo in the iMacs?

mini.boss · Oct 13, 2006, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by emark

Of course they could drop a C2D into the laptops...but at what cost and to what degree would that increase sales? If you actually took time to read the above article or other info you'd know that they're again having a record sales quarter supported by mac computers...not just iPod strength.

Right, but I guess thats my (and the rest of the non-mac elites) problem. Who. Cares. We're consumers so if Apple makes an extra billion then in no way does it benefit us. But then adjusted prices, addressed issues and updated hardware do. You'd expect the consumer to demand that their luxury class (and luxury priced) products be better than the "inferior" lowly competitors. But nope, the need for addressing current problems is squashed because "Apple is having record profits that I'll never see a dime of.".

I'm understanding the mac culture better now than before, but you have to admit that to non-mac owners this sort of mentality is a bit creepy. Theres alot of people that are a fan of both apple and money. So its a shame that they are forced to choose one over the other next time they buy a system when they can easily choose both.

Elektrix · Oct 13, 2006, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by mini.boss

Right, but I guess thats my (and the rest of the non-mac elites) problem. Who. Cares. We're consumers so if Apple makes an extra billion then in no way does it benefit us. But then adjusted prices, addressed issues and updated hardware do. You'd expect the consumer to demand that their luxury class (and luxury priced) products be better than the "inferior" lowly competitors. But nope, the need for addressing current problems is squashed because "Apple is having record profits that I'll never see a dime of.".

I'm understanding the mac culture better now than before, but you have to admit that to non-mac owners this sort of mentality is a bit creepy. Theres alot of people that are a fan of both apple and money. So its a shame that they are forced to choose one over the other next time they buy a system when they can easily choose both.

This doesn't have anything to do with "Mac culture", or mac elites. We're just talking about a business case here at this point.

Again, no-one knows for sure why Apple hasn't yet upgraded the laptop line, but the main point being made is that as far as we can tell, it hasn't had an effect on profits. Part of this is because perhaps Mac buyers in general aren't quite so hung up on "specs", but this is seen as much more of a part of the way that different PC notebook manufacturers compete.

Again though, as a general rule, if you are buying a computer primarily because it has the latest and greatest specs, Apple is probably never going to compete well in that arena. It's not to say they will never update to Core 2 Duo (it would be pretty surprising if we don't see updates in the next month or so), but even when they do, Apple is just not likely to start selling $1000 machines with 2 gigs of RAM, 200GB HD's, etc.

Elektrix

HouseSold · Oct 14, 2006, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Elektrix

This doesn't have anything to do with "Mac culture", or mac elites. We're just talking about a business case here at this point.

Again, no-one knows for sure why Apple hasn't yet upgraded the laptop line, but the main point being made is that as far as we can tell, it hasn't had an effect on profits. Part of this is because perhaps Mac buyers in general aren't quite so hung up on "specs", but this is seen as much more of a part of the way that different PC notebook manufacturers compete.

Again though, as a general rule, if you are buying a computer primarily because it has the latest and greatest specs, Apple is probably never going to compete well in that arena. It's not to say they will never update to Core 2 Duo (it would be pretty surprising if we don't see updates in the next month or so), but even when they do, Apple is just not likely to start selling $1000 machines with 2 gigs of RAM, 200GB HD's, etc.

Elektrix

As someone else pointed out, the Apple Geeks make up a minute part of the marketplace. Marketing and money will keep the Mac culture where it is today as evidenced by the product line and the TV ads.

Would it surprise anyone, if Apple skipped C2D altogether, and jumped ahead to Santa Rosa?
We're only talking a couple of months more anyway until MacWorld SF 2007.

Would that make bigger business sense to leapfrog everyone else and everyone's expectations?
Sales aren't exactly slumping right now across the board (Apple Products).
Anyone have a crystal ball? Mine has dead battery and bad heatsink.

Elektrix · Oct 14, 2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by HouseSold

As someone else pointed out, the Apple Geeks make up a minute part of the marketplace. Marketing and money will keep the Mac culture where it is today as evidenced by the product line and the TV ads.

Would it surprise anyone, if Apple skipped C2D altogether, and jumped ahead to Santa Rosa?
We're only talking a couple of months more anyway until MacWorld SF 2007.

Would that make bigger business sense to leapfrog everyone else and everyone's expectations?
Sales aren't exactly slumping right now across the board (Apple Products).
Anyone have a crystal ball? Mine has dead battery and bad heatsink.

It would surprise me if they skipped Core 2 Duo altogether, as there is no specifically good reason to not put them in the existing MacBook Pro and even the MacBook. The main reason it would surprise me is because they put them in the iMac. It doesn't make much sense to me why they would upgrade the iMac with Core 2 Duo but not the notebook line.

Waiting for Santa Rosa would be a long time to let the product line go without a refresh.

mduell · Oct 14, 2006, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by HouseSold

Would it surprise anyone, if Apple skipped C2D altogether, and jumped ahead to Santa Rosa?
We're only talking a couple of months more anyway until MacWorld SF 2007.

WTF? Santa Rosa is a chipset. What CPU are they going to pair it with, if not C2D?

Elektrix · Oct 14, 2006, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

WTF? Santa Rosa is a chipset. What CPU are they going to pair it with, if not C2D?

The OP was just mistaken.

Core 2 Duo will be used in Santa Rosa, and Santa Rosa will actually allow the full performance benefit of it to be taken advantage of.

24klogos · Oct 14, 2006, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Yep. A PowerBook G4 is slooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww compared to even the lowly MacBook Core Duo.

not if you work on proApps that run on Rosseta. photoshop is close to useless even on the fastest core-duos.

mduell · Oct 14, 2006, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by 24klogos

not if you work on proApps that run on Rosseta. photoshop is close to useless even on the fastest core-duos.

If Photoshop is close to useless for you on the fastest Core Duos, then it was also close to useless on a G4.

brutal · Oct 16, 2006, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by drnkn_stylz

I don't think I got that email... Or at least not yet. Can you post what it said?

The email was in Norwegian, but it said that you get a 700kr ($100) discount if you buy a Macbook before Dec 31st.

HouseSold · 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by brutal

The email was in Norwegian, but it said that you get a 700kr ($100) discount if you buy a Macbook before Dec 31st.

In time for MacWorld January 2007.

They may have more inventory than we thought.

Order Decemer 31st, and maybe get a newer model/revision, when they ship ?

Too late for one party, early for the next.......Oh well.

rhashem · Oct 18, 2006, 06:20 PM

This thread doesn't make any sense to me. The Core 2 came out a bit over a month ago. It's retail penetration is still tiny. Walk into a BestBuy or CompUSA, and you'll see that only a couple of the laptops are Core 2. So how exactly is Apple falling behind?

People forget that Apple has actual product cycles, compared to PC manufacturers that rush the latest processor to market the second its released. This cycle means that sometimes Apple will be ahead of the curve (the MB and MBP were among the first in their respective classes to get Core Duos), and sometimes they'll be a bit behind. If you want the absolute latest tech, then just buy on the cycle.

mini.boss · Oct 19, 2006, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by rhashem

This thread doesn't make any sense to me. The Core 2 came out a bit over a month ago. It's retail penetration is still tiny. Walk into a BestBuy or CompUSA, and you'll see that only a couple of the laptops are Core 2. So how exactly is Apple falling behind?

People forget that Apple has actual product cycles, compared to PC manufacturers that rush the latest processor to market the second its released. This cycle means that sometimes Apple will be ahead of the curve (the MB and MBP were among the first in their respective classes to get Core Duos), and sometimes they'll be a bit behind. If you want the absolute latest tech, then just buy on the cycle.

Actually, best buy etc has had C2D for a while now. And theyre pretty slow in updating to technology so that does indicate Apple is behind in relation to the rest of the world.

Yes, Apple works in product cycles so they do get ahead of the curve at first but near the end of the cycle they tend to be pretty far behind (not only in processor but in memory/hdd especially). Thats all okay because its somewhat acceptable to be behind in technology. But the problem is that the prices don't adjust accordingly making it a rip-off to buy at the end of a product cycle. Eventually that will piss people off.

eyeless · Oct 19, 2006, 12:15 PM

Hi,

Anyone knows how long we should have to wait for a new 12" MacBook Pro ??

I do not believe Apple could be serious about not having a laptop to offer that is actually "portable" ... I don't want to have to buy a car in order to get a new laptop ... .

/Jerry

siflippant · Oct 19, 2006, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by eyeless

I do not believe Apple could be serious about not having a laptop to offer that is actually "portable" ... I don't want to have to buy a car in order to get a new laptop ... .

/Jerry

pat++ · Oct 19, 2006, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by eyeless

Hi,

Anyone knows how long we should have to wait for a new 12" MacBook Pro ??

I do not believe Apple could be serious about not having a laptop to offer that is actually "portable" ... I don't want to have to buy a car in order to get a new laptop ... .

/Jerry

If this ever happens, it won't be before MWSF in January.

ERG · Oct 24, 2006, 07:31 AM

All of the AppleStores are offline right now...

brutal · Oct 24, 2006, 08:56 AM

Newsflash: Macbook Pros now Core 2 Duo. No Macbook updates.

SciFrog · Oct 24, 2006, 08:56 AM

MPB only get Core 2 Duo, no updates for MacBooks...

Simon · Oct 24, 2006, 08:57 AM

Many expected this would happen. Holding the MB back will help upsale.

Andy8 · Oct 24, 2006, 10:19 AM

Yes, I am waiting for a Macbook update also

clockworkwar · Oct 24, 2006, 03:43 PM

Yep, Macbook will be along in November i expect, or next week it depends how the corporate mind of Apple is working.

zaghahzag · Oct 24, 2006, 08:08 PM

i think they don't have the chips either. they could update the MB to c2duo and then sit on orders for 2 months. the chips are constrained, and apple probably did the math to know they can sell mbps but not MBs.. they are selling a LOT of macbooks right now. It would really screw them to have no chips for an updated MB.