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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > iMac G3 233 - is there a harddrive size limit?

iMac G3 233 - is there a harddrive size limit?
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peter_cph
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Dec 4, 2005, 12:37 PM
 
Hi there

I have thios iMac 233 (running 9.2.2) which is in overall good condition, the 8 GB harddrive is just a tad small. Tried to swop it with an 80 GB drive, but system profiler doesn't even see it.

So I wonder, is there a limit as to how big a harddrive the 233 will work with?

Thanks,

Peter
     
gumby5647
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Dec 4, 2005, 02:14 PM
 
You might need to reformat the drive under disk utilities from the OS 9 CD.

Far as I know, the first and second generation iMacs can take up to 120GB Hard drives.
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peter_cph  (op)
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Dec 4, 2005, 03:33 PM
 
Well ... I started off of the OS 9 CD and would have reformatted the 80 GB harddrive, but neither System Profiler nor Disk Utility recognizes the drive is there

( Last edited by peter_cph; Dec 4, 2005 at 06:05 PM. )
     
gumby5647
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Dec 4, 2005, 07:32 PM
 
Make sure the jumper setting on the drive are set properly. (Master/Slave, Master.....or whatever it's supposed to be, I can't remember)
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peter_cph  (op)
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Dec 5, 2005, 05:56 AM
 
I have just double-checked that (what a terror taking it all apart again and again) and the jumpers are set to Master, just like on the drive I removed.


Too weird ... perhaps I should try with a different drive ... of course there will always be the odd chance of a faulty drive.
     
ChrisF
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Dec 5, 2005, 09:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by peter_cph
I have just double-checked that (what a terror taking it all apart again and again) and the jumpers are set to Master, just like on the drive I removed.


Too weird ... perhaps I should try with a different drive ... of course there will always be the odd chance of a faulty drive.
On those older Macs, OS X has to be installed on the first partition, which has to be less than 8GB; do that partitioning operation on OS 9 and the OS X install should then work.
I can't remember if the disk partition needs to be less than 8000MB or 8192MB- just make it 7999MB to be sure.
Edit: I just read it didn't work in OS 9 either. There's a possibility the drive is just faulty- do you know if it's working?
     
peter_cph  (op)
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Dec 5, 2005, 09:38 AM
 
It used to work in my G4 450 ... I took it out to replace it with a larger drive
     
iLikebeer
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Dec 5, 2005, 11:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by peter_cph
I have just double-checked that (what a terror taking it all apart again and again) and the jumpers are set to Master, just like on the drive I removed.


Too weird ... perhaps I should try with a different drive ... of course there will always be the odd chance of a faulty drive.
Different drives sometimes have different master/slave settings. Did you set the jumpers the same as the drive you pulled out of the iMac or did you set them as master for that particular kind of drive?

If you know the brand and model of hard drive, you should be able to google for jumper settings. Even better would be checking the documentation that came with the drive if you still have it.
     
peter_cph  (op)
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Dec 6, 2005, 12:21 PM
 
I have set the jumpers to Master, the label on the Seagate drive clearly specifies how the jumpers are set. It was the master drive in the G4 too.
     
irus
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Dec 6, 2005, 12:33 PM
 
I don't know if it's even relevant, but some of the older HDDs had alternate master jumper settings to limit the number of cylinders, or something of that nature. In essence, it redefined the way the drive reported it's size and geometry, thur allowing older systems (PCs) to see it.

If I remember correctly, if the machine is capable of seeing the drive larger than 2.5GB, it should have no difficulty seeing a larger drive as well.

ChrisF is onto something. If all else fails, try to repartition the HDD in another Mac, making the first partition 8GB or less, and the second for the remaining capacity.
     
ChrisF
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Dec 6, 2005, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by peter_cph
I have set the jumpers to Master, the label on the Seagate drive clearly specifies how the jumpers are set. It was the master drive in the G4 too.
Maybe try the single drive setting rather than just master. I remember that the older G3 systems tend to have some weird IDE things that happen but haven't dealt with them recently enough to have useful information to provide. Also, can you fit a different IDE cable in the machine? If so, try an 80-pin cable, as short as possible. Also verify that the drive actually spins up in the iMac.
How about reversing the position of the CD and HD on the cable if that's a possibility?
     
Chinasaur
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Dec 8, 2005, 08:42 AM
 
With early iMac's, isn't there something about installing the system in the first 8GB of the disk? I had a Rev A 233, and I remember something like/about where the partitions/system area went making a difference.

Luck.
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Thain Esh Kelch
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Dec 8, 2005, 10:51 AM
 
The system must indeed be on a partion within the first 8 Gb. On top of that, theres also a limit on the harddrive size. Cant remember what it is though... :/
     
ChrisF
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Dec 8, 2005, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thain Esh Kelch
The system must indeed be on a partion within the first 8 Gb. On top of that, theres also a limit on the harddrive size. Cant remember what it is though... :/
The OP has tried that but since the drive doesn't appear in Disk Utility when booted from the install disk, he can't even get to the point where partitioning is an option.
     
oswaldkelso
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Dec 8, 2005, 09:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by peter_cph
I have set the jumpers to Master, the label on the Seagate drive clearly specifies how the jumpers are set. It was the master drive in the G4 too.
Hi try looking at http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ you can check their database for the jumper settings you need for your mac. I know these can change with different drives some need tobe cable select to be seen.

good luck
     
ValVashon
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Dec 19, 2005, 11:43 PM
 
I just ran into this problem a couple of months ago when setting up an iMac for a friend- remove ALL the jumpers and the drive should spin up and be recognized, etc. And remember that formatting thing about the first 8GB. Try this- it will work.

Val
     
tooki
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Dec 20, 2005, 12:39 AM
 
By the way, the maximum hard disk size for an original iMac is 137GB, which means that the largest available disk size with no waste is 120GB. If a larger disk is installed, everything beyond the 137GB barrier is simply not recognized, but the 137GB will work.

tooki
     
gumby5647
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Dec 30, 2005, 07:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki
By the way, the maximum hard disk size for an original iMac is 137GB, which means that the largest available disk size with no waste is 120GB. If a larger disk is installed, everything beyond the 137GB barrier is simply not recognized, but the 137GB will work.

tooki
Let me get this straight...

If i buy a 120GB Hard drive....i'll end up with 115GB or so after its formatted blah blah blah...

however,...

if i buy a 160GB hard drive It'll max itself out at 137GB?
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peter_cph  (op)
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Dec 30, 2005, 07:41 PM
 
Yes, that is what happens .... i wasn'r aware of the 137 GB on the iMac ... but I did install a apir of 160 GB's in a blue/white and they both came out as 128 GB drives ....

In machines where you can install a PCI card, you maye want to install a Sonnet Tempo ATA controller and use disks up to 500 GB (or more)
     
gumby5647
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Dec 30, 2005, 08:33 PM
 
anybody know what you actually end up with on a 120GB hard drive?
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Oneota
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Dec 30, 2005, 10:10 PM
 
FYI -

The 8 GB limit thing is only for Mac OS X. Since you only mentioned OS 9, you don't need to worry about that.
"Yields a falsehood when preceded by its quotation" yields a falsehood when preceded by its quotation.
     
Lgonzo99
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Jan 9, 2006, 03:25 AM
 
Hi guys. I read about people taking apart their iMacs and eMacs all the time to upgrade the hard drive and the optical drive. I have both an iMac 233 and an eMac 700. I would love to take them apart and upgrade the hard drives and optical drives. But when I read the disassembly instructions for both the iMacs and eMacs, apple always references a "CRT Discharge tool". How did you guys go about obtaining this tool? I have also seen posts where people have used an insulated probe (with pointed tip) and aligator clips to dischage the CRT, does that really work? And also, is it necessary to first dischange the CRT in order to upgrade the hard drives and optical drives? I've never taken apart a mac before, so I don't know if you ever become in contact with the CRT at all while upgrading the HDD and superdrives. I am a pc repair technician so I have taken apart quite a few PC's in my day. The PC's that I've worked on never had a built-in CRT on them either. Can some of you please shed some light on how to takle this project? I have all the other tools the disassembly instructions call for, except the CRT discharge tool.
     
iLikebeer
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Jan 9, 2006, 05:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Oneota
FYI -

The 8 GB limit thing is only for Mac OS X. Since you only mentioned OS 9, you don't need to worry about that.
That's not true. The 8 GB limit has been around since the beginning. I have a revA 233 iMac and put a 30GB drive in it back in '99, had to make sure the 1st partition* was in the 1st 8 GB or it wouldn't work. Can't remember what I was running then, probably 8.1, 8.5, or 8.6.
*Edit: boot partition or whatever, it's 3am, sorry

Originally Posted by Lgonzo99
Hi guys. I read about people taking apart their iMacs and eMacs all the time to upgrade the hard drive and the optical drive. I have both an iMac 233 and an eMac 700. I would love to take them apart and upgrade the hard drives and optical drives. But when I read the disassembly instructions for both the iMacs and eMacs, apple always references a "CRT Discharge tool". How did you guys go about obtaining this tool? I have also seen posts where people have used an insulated probe (with pointed tip) and aligator clips to dischage the CRT, does that really work? And also, is it necessary to first dischange the CRT in order to upgrade the hard drives and optical drives? I've never taken apart a mac before, so I don't know if you ever become in contact with the CRT at all while upgrading the HDD and superdrives. I am a pc repair technician so I have taken apart quite a few PC's in my day. The PC's that I've worked on never had a built-in CRT on them either. Can some of you please shed some light on how to takle this project? I have all the other tools the disassembly instructions call for, except the CRT discharge tool.
You don't have to discharge the CRT to upgrade either of the drives on the iMac. If you don't know what you're doing, there's no reason to get near the CRT, it's a total different section you take off than getting to the motherboard, ram, drives... Don't know about the eMac.

You should get a static discharge leash though. They cost around a buck at Radio Shack. You put it on your wrist and it's connected by a wire to an alligator clip that you touch the metal on the computer with so you don't zap anything.
( Last edited by iLikebeer; Jan 9, 2006 at 06:05 AM. )
     
tooki
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Jan 9, 2006, 02:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by peter_cph
Yes, that is what happens .... i wasn'r aware of the 137 GB on the iMac ... but I did install a apir of 160 GB's in a blue/white and they both came out as 128 GB drives ....
128GB (binary) = 137GB (decimal)

tooki
     
scoot
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Jan 11, 2006, 03:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Lgonzo99
Hi guys. I read about people taking apart their iMacs and eMacs all the time to upgrade the hard drive and the optical drive. I have both an iMac 233 and an eMac 700. I would love to take them apart and upgrade the hard drives and optical drives. But when I read the disassembly instructions for both the iMacs and eMacs, apple always references a "CRT Discharge tool". How did you guys go about obtaining this tool? I have also seen posts where people have used an insulated probe (with pointed tip) and aligator clips to dischage the CRT, does that really work? And also, is it necessary to first dischange the CRT in order to upgrade the hard drives and optical drives? I've never taken apart a mac before, so I don't know if you ever become in contact with the CRT at all while upgrading the HDD and superdrives. I am a pc repair technician so I have taken apart quite a few PC's in my day. The PC's that I've worked on never had a built-in CRT on them either. Can some of you please shed some light on how to takle this project? I have all the other tools the disassembly instructions call for, except the CRT discharge tool.
The CRT Discharge tool *is* an an insulated probe (with pointed tip) and aligator clips . I've heard of people using a screwdriver with a long shank, but I DON'T recommend it, for obvious "you might blow yourself across the room and maybe die" reasons.

I don't recall the details on the eMac, but for the tray-loading iMacs, there's no CRT discharge necessary when replacing the drive, processor card, or RAM. They're all in the 'can' under the CRT.
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quiklee
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Jan 11, 2006, 03:57 PM
 
I used the screwdriver . . . and umm . . . my finger still hurts
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Jittery Jimmy
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Jan 17, 2006, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lgonzo99
Hi guys. I read about people taking apart their iMacs and eMacs all the time to upgrade the hard drive and the optical drive. I have both an iMac 233 and an eMac 700. I would love to take them apart and upgrade the hard drives and optical drives. But when I read the disassembly instructions for both the iMacs and eMacs, apple always references a "CRT Discharge tool".
This is a fairly simple process to discharge any latent high voltages inside the CRT. The discharge tool is basically an insulated probe. With the tool grounded, you gently slide it under the CRT cap in order to touch the conductor under there. It is pretty easy. The site http://lancej.blogspot.com/ has numerous references and discharge discussion in it's eMac upgrade section.
     
   
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