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Suicide yes or no
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Monique
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:24 PM
 
What would you do if a doctor would tell you: you have cancer and all we can offer you is horrible torturous unhuman treatments with no guarantees you will survive them and no guarantee you will live.

I would borrow money, live in England for one year and then kill myself.
     
sek929
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:27 PM
 
I'd do lots of illegal drugs and have a wild trip for my remaining years.
     
Stradlater
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:28 PM
 
Is this a hypothetical?
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paul w
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:29 PM
 
I would, um, get a second opinion.
     
teknopimp
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Monique
What would you do if...
i would at least move out of Alberta.

MacBook 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo | Clamshell iBook G3 366MHz | 22" Cinema Display | iPod Mini | iPod shuffle | AirPort Express | Mighty Mouse
     
sek929
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:43 PM
 
Zing!
     
Jawbone54
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:46 PM
 
I thought this was a Terrell Owens thread.
     
davesimondotcom
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:48 PM
 
Until I'm placed in a situation like that, I can't truly tell you how I'd react. However, I've known enough miraculous cancer survivors and have enough competitive spirit in me that I would like to think that I would fight for my life.
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Zeeb
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:52 PM
 
You didn't mention what the chances were for survival. If there was a good chance I would survive without being paralyzed from the neck down I'd go through with the treatments.

If not, I'd skip the operation and I'd eat anything I wanted, spend a lot of time with my family, go on a huge trip, and be reckless.
     
Jawbone54
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Sep 27, 2006, 04:53 PM
 
I've watched many people go through chemo. A little over half have survived, but of course were very sick for a while. I think I'd be willing to take the chemo. Suicide isn't an option for me.
     
smacintush
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Sep 27, 2006, 05:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Monique
What would you do if a doctor would tell you: you have cancer and all we can offer you is horrible torturous unhuman treatments with no guarantees you will survive them
First of all, although many succumb to cancer before the treatment is complete, the treatment itself isn't usually the cause of death.

and no guarantee you will live.
Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why do they put a guarantee on a box? Hmm, very interesting.

Ted: I'm listening.

Tommy: Here's how I see it. A guy puts a guarantee on the box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.

Ted: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: 'Course it does. Ya think if you leave that box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter.

Ted: What's your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the Guarantee Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, but we're not buying it. Next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times.

Ted: But why do they put a guarantee on the box then?

Tommy: Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of ****. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me.

Ted: Hmm. Okay, I'll buy from you.

Tommy: Well I... What?
I have no problem with suicide itself, I guess it would depend on my situation. Your example is a little vague.

I knew a guy who had diabetes and was a hemophiliac. In the '80's he got HIV from a blood transfusion, which he of course passed on to his wife. She apparently was resentful of taking care of his needs and of his passing on HIV to her because she nagged him constantly. Then he got full-blown AIDS and in less than a year found out he had cancer.

He took his own head off with a shotgun. I'd say he made a perfectly sane decision.
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
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Sep 27, 2006, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54
I thought this was a Terrell Owens thread.
Indeed.
     
The Godfather
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Sep 27, 2006, 06:12 PM
 
My life came with no guarantee, and a doctor told me he couldn't guarantee my life. Hmm...

Cancer nowadays is much less lethal than a decade ago, especially for us, well-off people in developed countries.

And the definition of torturous and inhumane has changed a lot during this time.
     
Kerrigan
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Sep 27, 2006, 06:13 PM
 
Lighten up Monique. Unless you actually are faced with such a situation, then there's no reason to have these freaking depressing thoughts.
     
Pendergast
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Sep 27, 2006, 06:31 PM
 
I once was told of a man whom was told he had a month left. He spent all his money and partied until he got seriously in debt.

He lived another few months very poor and miserable.

The father of one of my colleagues was diagnosed with a brain tumor 25 years ago. 6 months ago the family was informed he had a month left to live. He is still alive, although paralysed and conscious at times only, but still alive.

ALWAYs get a second opinion.
     
voodoo
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Sep 27, 2006, 07:27 PM
 
suicide is for quitters

V
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Spliffdaddy
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Sep 27, 2006, 07:31 PM
 
I think your time would be better spent deciding what you would do with your life if you lived for the next 50 years.
     
simonjames
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Sep 27, 2006, 09:35 PM
 
do you mean suicide or euthanasia? In my opinion they are very different in intention even though the end result is the same.

Suicide is wrong and very sad. No healthy person should ever get to the depths where self-termination is (in their mind) the only option. But who has the answer? I don't. A friend took his life 2 years ago and it still makes me angry and sad.

Euthanasia is taking responsibility of yourself and deciding how & when you want to end your existence. Paliative care is over-rated and not at all dignified nor painless as we're made to believe.
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ghporter
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Sep 27, 2006, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo
suicide is for quitters

V
You beat me to it.

For starters, I'd get about nine or ten "second opinions." I'd check with the numerous agencies and institutions specializing in various forms of "the deadlies" to see what treatments were actually available. I'd visit medical schools and think tanks and see what's being researched.

About 15 years ago, my father's cardiologist told him that he needed a heart transplant. My father found a new cardiologist, not a new heart. He's quite active at 75-I don't know if I could keep up with him.

If it came down to the first doctor being right, I'd stay as active and independent as possible for as long as possible, and then find a good hospice to help relieve the pain until the end.

I would NOT quit-and the choices are obviously not as cut and dried as "suicide-yes or no?"

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
dcmacdaddy
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Sep 27, 2006, 09:49 PM
 
Yes, please do. Report back here after you've done it and let us know how it goes. Thanks!
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ambush
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Sep 27, 2006, 09:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929
I'd do lots of illegal drugs and have a wild trip for my remaining years.

Right on!

I know I'd go on a Opium binge in China.
     
Cadaver
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Sep 27, 2006, 10:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Monique
What would you do if a doctor would tell you: you have cancer and all we can offer you is horrible torturous unhuman treatments with no guarantees you will survive them and no guarantee you will live.

I would borrow money, live in England for one year and then kill myself.
Not all cancer is a death sentence, and not all treatments are inhumane.

I'm living proof. I'm considered essentially cured. Three years and counting. And the treatments weren't really that bad. Never threw up, never lost weight (actually gained and still trying to lose it), and never spent a night in the hospital. Some minor tingling in the fingers and toes which went away. Worst thing was losing my hair, but not until near the end of the treatments and it grew back pretty quickly.
     
Ganesha
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Sep 27, 2006, 10:14 PM
 
Do something where I can yell: Sic temper tyrannis!!
     
CharlesS
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Sep 27, 2006, 10:16 PM
 
Don't do it Monique, there aren't enough women here as it is.

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Jawbone54
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Sep 27, 2006, 10:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver
Not all cancer is a death sentence, and not all treatments are inhumane.

I'm living proof. I'm considered essentially cured. Three years and counting. And the treatments weren't really that bad. Never threw up, never lost weight (actually gained and still trying to lose it), and never spent a night in the hospital. Some minor tingling in the fingers and toes which went away. Worst thing was losing my hair, but not until near the end of the treatments and it grew back pretty quickly.
Very, very good story.

It's good to hear some optimism. The good stories happen too!
     
Jawbone54
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Sep 27, 2006, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS
Don't do it Monique, there aren't enough women here as it is.
Come to think of it, are there more gay men on MacNN than there are woman altogether? This isn't a joke question...I'm serious.
     
lavar78
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Sep 27, 2006, 10:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Ganesha
Do something where I can yell: Sic temper tyrannis!!
Assuming you meant "sic semper tyrannis," just come to Virginia; it's our state motto.

"I'm virtually bursting with adequatulence!" - Bill McNeal, NewsRadio
     
James L
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Sep 27, 2006, 11:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Monique
What would you do if a doctor would tell you: you have cancer and all we can offer you is horrible torturous unhuman treatments with no guarantees you will survive them and no guarantee you will live.

I would borrow money, live in England for one year and then kill myself.
Torturous and unhuman?

You obviously know nothing about cancer treatments.

As an example, a recent study of 561 prostate cancer patients, between the ages of 46 and 86 years old, showed an 89% survival rate over an 8 year period.

In other words, 89% of the patients were disease free up to 8 years post treatment.

The treatment was radiation therapy. Prior to the development of this treatment, a possible 561 one of these people may have died, versus the 60 or so who succumbed to their disease.

The doctors, and the treatment, helped to save 500 people in this study.

What is inhumane about that?

...

Cancer treatments vary widely based on the type of cancer a patient has, its level of metastasis, other underlying health issues, the patient's age, etc.

None of them are inhuman, though many have side effects. A skilled physician will assess his or her patient, weigh out the options, and help the patient weigh the risks versus the benefits... which all medical treatments have.

The risk in the study I quoted above? Of the men who were potent prior to treatment, 49% of them developed erectile dysfunction.

For some men this may be a chance worth taking... life over the possible loss of sexual function. Other men may chose to f*ck like bunnies for the time they have left.

Patient's have the right to refuse treatment. Many do. Health care professionals are not miracle workers, and all treatments come with side effects and risks. You weigh those out, seek appropriate advice, and make a choice. NOTHING is inhumane about that.

Sometimes life just sucks. Sometimes good people become sick. Sometimes the treatments work, and sometimes they don't. Treatments have side effects. These are just simple facts of life, and again NOTHING about that is inhumane. The treatments are out there, the patient decides what to do, with the help of family, friends, and health care professionals.

My favourite quote from this thread:

My life came with no guarantee
     
Railroader
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Sep 27, 2006, 11:57 PM
 
No.
     
Nicko
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Sep 28, 2006, 05:03 AM
 
hookers and blackjack
     
Dakar
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Sep 28, 2006, 08:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54
Come to think of it, are there more gay men on MacNN than there are woman altogether? This isn't a joke question...I'm serious.
Without question.
     
Cody Dawg
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Sep 28, 2006, 08:39 AM
 
We've heard about these scenarios before.

How about this? This woman thought she had cancer for a year then it turned out that she didn't have cancer at all.

She'd be hopeless and dead by your plans - for nothing.

Suicide is hurtful to the ones you love and a cop out.

If you're even contemplating thoughts like this we all suggest that you talk to a doctor as soon as possible.
     
Y3a
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Sep 28, 2006, 09:16 AM
 
Torturous and unhuman? Isn't that just with the Canadian Healthcare system, Monique? They still do 'bleedings' up there?

Eat well,
Stay Fit,

DIE ANYWAY.

Fact is you don't live forever. get over it!
     
Cody Dawg
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Sep 28, 2006, 09:19 AM
 
Cadaver: Cool that you're still around here.

Now I like your name better.

     
Millennium
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Sep 28, 2006, 09:50 AM
 
Monique, are you trying to tell us that you have cancer?

What I would do in a situation like this is irrelevant: it's a decision that has to come from the person affected. But if you're having trouble deciding, then personally I think the wisest choice would be to live, simply because that decision is easier to reverse than the alternative.
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Cody Dawg
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Sep 28, 2006, 10:09 AM
 
Yeah.

Move to the United States and get your drugs for free here. The drug companies all give their drugs away to those in need here in the United States. You just contact them directly and they set it up for those who need them the most. Canada apparently doesn't have that.
     
Monique  (op)
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Sep 28, 2006, 10:25 AM
 
I just watched a show on PBS called POV which told us the story of a man that just found out he had cancer and chose not to throught the treatments. He prefered to end his life with dignity and chose to shot himself. And it got me thinking that I probably would do the same thing. I do not want to go through all these inhuman treatments. If you do, go for it and have fun. Death is not a horrible thing, it is not for quitters, it is a doorway to a more beautiful life and it is an option given to patients. Sit down, think about it and if you want to die, you should be able to. There is nothing depressing at all about dying, for me living without dignity, always sick, unable to provide for myself is more depressing. That 73 years old man that decided to end his days, had a wonderful life, he accomplished whatever he wanted to accomplish and that was it. And you know what his family will be sad for a while then they will get over it and life will continue.
     
Cody Dawg
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Sep 28, 2006, 10:28 AM
 
That's his choice. He's 73 years old. I might do the same thing, but I wouldn't shoot myself.

I'd go out high as a kite on morphine with angels holding my hands and my family at peace.

     
subego
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Sep 28, 2006, 10:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by James L
None of them are inhuman, though many have side effects.
Can't the basic theory of cancer treatment be summed up as "poison the patient and hope the cancer dies before the patient does"?

Inhumane was the wrong word, but I do think we're talking about some of the nastiest things one can voluntarily endure for the purposes of survival.
     
Cody Dawg
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Sep 28, 2006, 10:44 AM
 
I don't know.

My pregnancies resulted in vomiting about 20 times a day, severe dehydration requiring IVs and a nurse at our home, and with this pregnancy, a gall bladder that perforated as the result of vomiting - requiring surgery. For about 5 months straight with each one I was severely ill.

To me chemotherapy seems mild. Vomiting goes away after 3 days.
     
Monique  (op)
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Sep 28, 2006, 10:55 AM
 
It is not only the vomiting, it makes you so tired that you can barely walk or get out of bed. But, again it depends on each person. Some women have perfect pregnancies and are barely sick. Some are sick 9 months in a row. Cody you were very lucky you had someone else to do all your housekeeping work and earn a living for your family. I am totally alone and will not get any help at all. I get sick on chemeo. I loose my job, no insurance, who is going to pay the rent, the utilities, my debts, my food (although I would not be able to eat and in consequence have one seizure after the other), my bus pass (no money for transit, no money for taxi cabs). You do not really think that doctors and nurses care and will come and take care of me in my home, make sure I have food on the table and make sure I am able to pay for my stuff. All they care about it sticking a needle in my arm and drop poison in my veins. As for inhumanity, of course it is not being torture with electricity, but it is barely human. As for doctors, here they open you up mutilate you, close you up and then it is next one.
     
Cody Dawg
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Sep 28, 2006, 11:02 AM
 
Yes, I know that I'm fortunate.

But I do work - I'm working today despite the fact that I slipped on stairs on a toy and fell and can barely walk - and I have a meeting to be at at 1:00 PM that I cannot miss. I work to pay for the insurance that provides the medical care and the nurse to come to my home and yes, to pay the bills, and buy food. I'm not laying around doing nothing.

We do have insurance in case my husband cannot work and we do have life insurance also.

Yes, sometimes life is very hard - trust me I know. I've been depressed during this pregnancy, very depressed in the beginning, from feeling so terrible physically and then emotionally.

One thing to think about? We both work, I work from a home office most of the time, but my husband is gone every day and sometimes overnight. I have children that have to be taken to school, provided for, picked up, taken to school activities, groceries to shop for, laundry to wash, etc. It's not just a free ride.

But, yes, I'm very fortunate because I have a partner for life and that makes me feel very blessed every day.

     
Y3a
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Sep 28, 2006, 11:06 AM
 
Perhaps the Moderators should intervene on your behalf, Monique.
     
Cody Dawg
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Sep 28, 2006, 11:09 AM
 
Yes. First you say it's a story about a 73-year old man and now you're saying that it's you?

???

You sound very sad and depressed, Monique.

If you want me to email you you can PM me and I'll try to help in any way.
     
James L
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Sep 28, 2006, 11:38 AM
 
Sigh. Why try to make this a nationality thing?

Isn't that just with the Canadian Healthcare system, Monique? They still do 'bleedings' up there?
I love how when health care comes up, Americans mock the Canadian system, which CONSTANTLY is ranked higher than the United States by the World Health Organization.

In one study by the WHO, Canada was 10th. The US was 37th.

This may be why Canadians also have a longer life expectancy than people from the United States:

Canada: Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 78.0/83.0

United States: Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 75.0/80.0

Canada apparently doesn't have that.
In Canada, those in financial need can have all costs related to health care covered by the federal and provincial programs.
     
Monique  (op)
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Sep 28, 2006, 12:26 PM
 
But Cody you have help don't you? Your husband supports you morally, psychologically and physically.

And I am not depressed. Death does not depressed me, on the contrary, it is life under another name. I have faith, so for me after you die you live forever.
     
stevesnj
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Sep 28, 2006, 12:37 PM
 
I would join the Dallas Cowboys
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Dakar
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Sep 28, 2006, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by stevesnj
I would join the Dallas Cowboys
Another bitter Eagles fan emerges from depths. Save it for the T.O. thread.
     
macintologist
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Sep 28, 2006, 12:47 PM
 
A little OT: What happens when you borrow a lot of money like $15,000 from the bank and then commit suicide. Is there no way for the bank to recover that money from you once you die?
     
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Sep 28, 2006, 12:53 PM
 
With no loan insurance, I guess they would enslave your family.
     
 
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