[ironknee]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I disagree. As an active member of a church I find the majority of them very conscientious of their consumption on a host of levels, from the vehicles they drive to their family budgets. In fact, the more faithful they are in practice, the less wasteful and more disciplined in general. They contribute a great deal of their resources (giftings) to their churches, who in turn offer more efficient and effective means of philanthropy.

It may be tempting to conclude that because of their well-known focus on the immediate needs of people in service to a deity, they don't care about the planet or its sciences, but I don't think it's a solid conclusion. IMO, this mistakes correlative for causal.

so christians are lefties now?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

There you go ebuddy, that's what you get when you try to explain things as an adult, using logic and reason, to people stunted at a mental age of about 7. I don't know where you manage to get the patience for it.

The very few intelligent leftists that one could actually carry on an adult level conversation with, seemed to have left the forum some time ago. Can't say as I blame them- their side of the aisle has been nothing but one big FAIL after another for some time now.

[ironknee]

^^
did u get your ged yet? u can do it!

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

There you go ebuddy, that's what you get when you try to explain things as an adult, using logic and reason, to people stunted at a mental age of about 7. I don't know where you manage to get the patience for it.

The very few intelligent leftists that one could actually carry on an adult level conversation with, seemed to have left the forum some time ago. Can't say as I blame them- their side of the aisle has been nothing but one big FAIL after another for some time now.

You know what they say CRASH... doctors who live in glass houses should heal thyself according to their hypocritical oath to reap what they sow

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

so christians are lefties now?

Good question ironknee and the answer of course is no. See, Christians often ask "what can I do to help?" while lefties ask "what will you do to help?"

Two entirely different perspectives actually.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Good question ironknee and the answer of course is no. See, Christians often ask "what can I do to help?" while lefties ask "what will you do to help?"

Two entirely different perspectives actually.

hmmm... your quotes sound like it' from bizzaro land from jfk's speech...

i suppose there might be christians who ask god to help them out there...

like, my friend is very sick, please look after them....

different? why?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

different? why?

See post just above yours.

[stupendousman]

Different because Jesus had the same idea as the founding fathers.

He (and they) believed that in the end, most people would choose to do the right thing on their own and it is meaningless if they are forced to do it or asked to do it.

The difference is freedom of choice and acting on one's own conscience.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Different because Jesus had the same idea as the founding fathers.

He (and they) believed that in the end, most people would choose to do the right thing on their own and it is meaningless if they are forced to do it or asked to do it.

How, exactly, did Jesus believe that?

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

^^
did u get your ged yet? u can do it!

typical left response. you don't agree with me, so you must be an idiot.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

typical left response. you don't agree with me, so you must be an idiot.

It never fails to represent itself well that's for sure.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

How, exactly, did Jesus believe that?

With all his heart.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

With all his heart.

Ah, nice dodge

Let me rephrase. *What* was the "right thing" Jesus believed people would do?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Ah, nice dodge

Let me rephrase. *What* was the "right thing" Jesus believed people would do?

"Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself."

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

"Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself."

Wouldn't that classify as adultery?

If this was what Jesus expected people to eventually default to all by themselves, then why did He need to issue the edict? "Thou Shalt" is a command, not an expectation.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

"Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself."

And, what happens to me if I *don't* love my neighbour as myself?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Wouldn't that classify as adultery?

If this was what Jesus expected people to eventually default to all by themselves, then why did He need to issue the edict? "Thou Shalt" is a command, not an expectation.

Jesus doesn't make you live by his word. He never requested that by law, you have to obey what he'd like you to do. You are free NOT to listen or obey to his edicts. Christianity has always been based on the notion that you have free will not to abide by it's teachings.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

And, what happens to me if I *don't* love my neighbour as myself?

It would depend on if he really was the son of your creator or not. If you know for sure that he's not, then nothing would happen.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Jesus doesn't make you live by his word. He never requested that by law, you have to obey what he'd like you to do. You are free NOT to listen or obey to his edicts. Christianity has always been based on the notion that you have free will not to abide by it's teachings.

True, but nice dodge.

Still want to know how that sits with "everyone will default to doing the right thing eventually anyway".

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

"Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself."

Isn't that socialism?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Isn't that socialism?

Only if mandated by law by the government. If you are free to chose to do it or not, it's charity.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Still want to know how that sits with "everyone will default to doing the right thing eventually anyway".

Apparently Christians believe that if you hear the word of God and truly listen, then your heart will lead you to do the right thing.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

typical left response. you don't agree with me, so you must be an idiot.

Um, did you ignore the post by Crash that he was responding to? Mr. Harddrive has been on a name-calling binge for months.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

It would depend on if he really was the son of your creator or not. If you know for sure that he's not, then nothing would happen.

Dodge. What happens if Jesus really is the son of my creator and I choose not to obey Christ's instruction? Am I not sentenced to an eternity in Purgatory? That isn't really freedom of choice.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Apparently Christians believe that if you hear the word of God and truly listen, then your heart will lead you to do the right thing.

So, basically, Christians believe that Christians can do no wrong? Anything that a Christian who believes he/she truly listened to the word of God cannot possibly do the wrong thing? That actually explains a great deal.

[Big Mac]

How did a global warming thread get taken in the direction of sectarian Christian beliefs?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Dodge. What happens if Jesus really is the son of my creator and I choose not to obey Christ's instruction? Am I not sentenced to an eternity in Purgatory? That isn't really freedom of choice.

This would be a hypothetical in your view would it not? Why deal in those? In reality you don't believe any of it. That is freedom of choice.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Apparently Christians believe that if you hear the word of God and truly listen, then your heart will lead you to do the right thing.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

So, basically, Christians believe that Christians can do no wrong? Anything that a Christian who believes he/she truly listened to the word of God cannot possibly do the wrong thing?

Yes. But let me qualify that. I don't believe that many Christians are anywhere near actually being Christian at all. I know, I know, who am I to judge?

For example: Pat Robertson. Not even close. And by association, anyone who thinks Robertson is probably isn't.

You see someone with a snarly face (i.e. Phelps)? They're not Christian. Might be trying to be, but haven't made it yet. You see someone with a look of serenity on their face? Maybe, just maybe, they've made it.

It's easy to assign labels to oneself in order to convince oneself that one is part of something. Much, much harder to be. That's my take. I could be wrong.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Yes. But let me qualify that. I don't believe that many Christians are anywhere near actually being Christian at all. I know, I know, who am I to judge?

My argument wouldn't be that you aren't in a position to judge because you aren't perfect or possibly a Christian. My argument would be that you aren't in a position to judge because I don't think you really know what it's supposed to mean to be a Christian.

Here's what it doesn't mean.

- You are perfect
- You do no wrong
- You don't ever make bad choices
- You are never selfish or self centered
- You never swear
- You never have sex outside of marriage

For example: Pat Robertson. Not even close. And by association, anyone who thinks Robertson is probably isn't.

You see someone with a snarly face (i.e. Phelps)? They're not Christian. Might be trying to be, but haven't made it yet. You see someone with a look of serenity on their face? Maybe, just maybe, they've made it.

There are no goalposts for being a Christian. "Trying to" follow the guidelines Jesus set up, and accepting him as what the Bible says he is, are really all the requirements necessary to be a Christian. People often times hold Christians to unreasonable and unattainable standards. The good thing is that apparently God doesn't.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

How did a global warming thread get taken in the direction of sectarian Christian beliefs?

As an attempt to prove that Christians, and by extension, Republicans, can do no wrong, and by extension, there is no need to work to avert climate change since climate change implies a problem with Capitalism and, by extension, Christianity.

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Different because Jesus had the same idea as the founding fathers.

He (and they) believed that in the end, most people would choose to do the right thing on their own and it is meaningless if they are forced to do it or asked to do it.

The difference is freedom of choice and acting on one's own conscience.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

As an attempt to prove that Christians, and by extension, Republicans, can do no wrong, and by extension, there is no need to work to avert climate change since climate change implies a problem with Capitalism and, by extension, Christianity.

But you realize, based on that quotation you provided as well as common sense, stupendousman never said anything of the sort. I'd definitely characterize what you're doing in this thread as trolling with a capital T.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

There are no goalposts for being a Christian. "Trying to" follow the guidelines Jesus set up, and accepting him as what the Bible says he is, are really all the requirements necessary to be a Christian.

I disagree.

But then, I'm from the esoteric/mystic tradition.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

But you realize, based on that quotation you provided as well as common sense, stupendousman never said anything of the sort. I'd definitely characterize what you're doing in this thread as trolling with a capital T.

Ok, then what do *you* think stupendousman was saying (since stupendousman won't explain why he brought up Christ)?

[Big Mac]

Simply that the Founding Fathers believed in a considerable amount of personal liberty, and by extension they trusted that individuals would generally choose good over evil. They did not believe in substantial external coercion to force people to do good, and similarly, the Judeo-Christian conception of the Higher Power involves a considerable amount of personal liberty in the form of free will to choose good over evil.

Now how that relates to the global warming issue I'm not entirely sure, but I know it has something to do with the propriety of individual free choice over government coercion.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Ok, then what do *you* think stupendousman was saying (since stupendousman won't explain why he brought up Christ)?

It's kind of hard to discuss what Christians believe (what someone else brought up) without bringing Jesus into the mix, since it's his words are what believers of that religion adhere to.

Most people obey our laws. There's a reason for that. I'm betting it's something that both Jesus and our Founding Fathers assumed from the get go.

[Wiskedjak]

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

So, basically, Christians believe that Christians can do no wrong? Anything that a Christian who believes he/she truly listened to the word of God cannot possibly do the wrong thing? That actually explains a great deal.

Holy Mackerel!

On a related topic, did you know that some cosmic rays can be blocked by an ordinary sheet of paper? So if cosmic rays are troubling you, that newspaper hat might just be the trick!

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

There are no goalposts for being a Christian. "Trying to" follow the guidelines Jesus set up, and accepting him as what the Bible says he is, are really all the requirements necessary to be a Christian.

This is completely, utterly false. The Apostle's Creed is the universal standard of Christian beliefs. Only fringe wackos like Mormons or JWs dispute this. Even Unitarians can accept the Apostle's Creed.

In case you've forgotten:

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.

"Catholic" here means "universal," not Roman Catholic.
The "descent into hell" is sometimes phrased "descended into death."

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

You know what they say CRASH... doctors who live in glass houses should heal thyself according to their hypocritical oath to reap what they sow

Heh, I just saw this. I usually don't bother with GloWarm nonsense threads about the time they degenerate into atheists quoting scripture to Christians.

And for the record US, you're one of the intelligent few remaining. (At least as of March).