[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Second. How much cash on hand? Total including investments is $1.4 billion.

That total is excluding investments, actually. Substantial investments that, if sold, would allow RIM to raise capital fairly quickly should things go red.

This RIM death-watch thing is silly. They're well into the process of replacing the one hinderance to their ecosphere. Not to mention that the death (for all intents and purposes) of webOS has bought that ecosphere some breathing room with impatient developers.

[turtle777]

LOL, webOS is dead now ? I thought it was going to come back from the ashes, and dominate, just as RIM will

-t

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

That total is excluding investments, actually. Substantial investments that, if sold, would allow RIM to raise capital fairly quickly should things go red.

This RIM death-watch thing is silly. They're well into the process of replacing the one hinderance to their ecosphere. Not to mention that the death (for all intents and purposes) of webOS has bought that ecosphere some breathing room with impatient developers.

Am I missing something or are you? Their net cash flow on their most recent cash flow statement is $1.4 billion.

1. Cash and cash equivalents: $851 mil
2. Short-term investments: $298
3. Long-term investments: $266
Total: $1.415 billion

"The total of cash, cash equivalents, short-term and long-term investments was $1.4 billion as at August 27, 2011, compared to $2.9 billion at the end of the previous quarter, a decrease of $1.5 billion from the prior quarter."

As for the death watch, this is a tech site. It's one of the more interesting and important issues right now. Especially for us Canadians. And especially when one can see this happening before their eyes. It's a phenomena.

[turtle777]

Well, FWIW, *theoretically, RIM could be saved.

But it would take a Steve Jobs caliber genius.

The question is: even *if* such a genius would suddenly become available, why on earth would he hire with RIM ?

-t

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Am I missing something or are you?

Yes, you're missing the company's recent $800 million Nortel patent investment.

And today there is another issue that hasn’t been brought up before, a worry about the company’s cash on hand, as cash and investments dipped from $2.9 billion to $1.4 billion following the company’s $800 million investment in Nortel patents along with Apple and Microsoft.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Yes, you're missing the company's recent $800 million Nortel patent investment.

So even if we add another $800 mil on, it doesn't matter. You could add several more. Their cash position is weak. So weak that they laid off people. And I expect more lay offs.

[Lateralus]

Cutting labor force has nothing to do with cash levels. They're cutting labor as much as they can in order to streamline operations and squeeze more profit, not minimize losses. Most large companies have cut labor since the recession began and hardly any of them would be accused of being in a downward spiral because of it.

I honestly couldn't care much less about RIM as far as their products go, I've never been a fan other than to admit that what they make is made well. I just think circling like a vulture at this stage is more than a bit desperate. I also hate seeing Apple fans cheer at the death prospects of other tech companies.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Cutting labor force has nothing to do with cash levels. They're cutting labor as much as they can in order to streamline operations and squeeze more profit, not minimize losses. Most large companies have cut labor since the recession began and hardly any of them would be accused of being in a downward spiral because of it.

I honestly couldn't care much less about RIM as far as their products go, I've never been a fan other than to admit that what they make is made well. I just think circling like a vulture at this stage is more than a bit desperate. I also hate seeing Apple fans cheer at the death prospects of other tech companies.

I don't think anybody here is cheering in their death. Maybe go hang out in another thread if this discussion really bothers you?

I also was curious about cash flows. From what I see, patent investments are not included in cash flow statements as cash inflows, but rather are cash outflows. It's an intangible asset that is not immediately exchangeable for cash at a fixed IRR for one thing. Imagine if every company were able to include the estimated fair market value of their patent portfolio in their net cash flow amounts. Cash flows simply show the cash a company has on hand to pay its bills without having to go into debt.

No doubt the patents are worth something but it would be a bit silly accounting wise to show an $800 mil expenditure and then immediately put it back on as a cash inflow. The patents may not even fetch them that much by the time they try and sell them.

The second part of a cash flow statement shows the cash flow from all investing activities, which generally include purchases or sales of long-term assets, such as property, plant and equipment, as well as investment securities. If a company buys a piece of machinery, the cash flow statement would reflect this activity as a cash outflow from investing activities because it used cash. If the company decided to sell off some investments from an investment portfolio, the proceeds from the sales would show up as a cash inflow from investing activities because it provided cash.

Maybe I'm missing something?

As for RIM cutting their labour force, it certainly does have to do with their finances. Their profits are down significantly. They needed and continue to need to cut costs to stay out of the red. They are aware of their outlook and are making adjustments now to keep themselves out of debt. If you study their earnings reports you'll see how fragile a position they are in. They could be losing money just like that next quarter like ASUS. Their QNX phones won't be out until what I've seen in the summer this coming year.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I don't think anybody here is cheering in their death. Maybe go hang out in another thread if this discussion really bothers you?

I don't understand how you can be so vehemently defensive of webOS and the situation surrounding it, while fanning the RIM brush fire and denying even doing it.

Between you and Turtle, there's a lot of negativity toward RIM in here. If it isn't 'cheering', then I'm curious to know what you would call it. Salivating, perhaps?

And I will take under advisement your suggestion that I restrict my thread participation on the forum. But I'll probably ignore it, since I've been modding here years longer than you've been a member. Differences in opinion/outlook aside, this thread is going fairly well; there's no reason for you to cross the moderator-member line unless you want the thread locked.

In fact, you probably shouldn't suggest that any member take leave of a thread, ever. Message boards exist for open discussion, and arranging a discussion so that only members with a unanimous opinion are in participation is not something that you will ever see in any thread.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

I don't understand how you can be so vehemently defensive of webOS and the situation surrounding it, while fanning the RIM brush fire and denying even doing it.

Between you and Turtle, there's a lot of negativity toward RIM in here. If it isn't 'cheering', then I'm curious to know what you would call it. Salivating, perhaps?

And I will take under advisement your suggestion that I restrict my thread participation on the forum. But I'll probably ignore it, since I've been modding here years longer than you've been a member. Differences in opinion/outlook aside, this thread is going fairly well; there's no reason for you to cross the moderator-member line unless you want the thread locked.

In fact, you probably shouldn't suggest that any member take leave of a thread, ever. Message boards exist for open discussion, and arranging a discussion so that only members with a unanimous opinion are in participation is not something that you will ever see in any thread.

Lat I think you need to take it easy.

Anyway, the feeling in Canada is one of dislike for Jim Balsillie. He's not well liked by some circles. He's arrogant and wayward. A part of the reason why he wasn't able to buy an NHL hockey team was because on background checks the NHL found out what a tard he really is. They said no to him and it was a big spectacle. I'm happy for the Atlanta Spirit group in Winnipeg.

Jim leading the marketing with his "love" campaign and "amateur hour is over" stuff. His trash talking Steve Jobs and all the rest of the stuff he blabbers about. Then his partner Mike who is stubborn. "A football table in my company, never!"

And the world famous RIM astroturfing that is exposed in another thread. The reality is that they've done it to themselves.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Lat I think you need to take it easy.

You have a PM.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Anyway, the feeling in Canada is one of dislike for Jim Balsillie. He's not well liked by some circles. He's arrogant and wayward. A part of the reason why he wasn't able to buy an NHL hockey team was because on background checks the NHL found out what a tard he really is. They said no to him and it was a big spectacle. I'm happy for the Atlanta Spirit group in Winnipeg.

Uh, right.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Uh, right.

Uh, right. Uh.

“RIM is run by billionaire Jim Balsillie, who has been repeatedly rebuffed by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman in his attempts to buy a team. RIM is paying over seven figures for its sponsorship. Turns out that Bettman, according to my source, has told Balsillie that if he behaves himself and doesn’t create any more spectacles or bad publicity for the league, he will eventually get a team.”

Jim Balsillie could get an NHL team if he “behaves himself” | ProHockeyTalk

To be blunt, I plan on voting against Jim as a potential owner, and it has nothing to do with the Phoenix Coyotes or Jim's desire to move an NHL franchise to Hamilton, Ontario. Rather, I simply don't trust Jim, and don't believe he would be a good partner in the NHL or owner of an NHL franchise.

Craig Leipold unloads on Balsillie and Rodier, alleges attempts to undermine the Nashville Predators - On the Forecheck

I’ve been saying that this man will stop at nothing to get what he wants… and frankly doesn’t seem to care how it makes him look. Balsillie doesn’t even have the ability to say that he didn’t know what his lawyer was doing… he was present when these morally questionable tactics were discussed! I’m only focusing on the Nashville related information. The Pittsburgh deal and the Phoenix dealings are their own story… one that needs to be told as well.

HockeyBuzz.com - Paul McCann - Things Keep Getting Nastier...

“I’m going to get my name on the [Stanley] Cup one way or another.”

Yes, from a strategic point of view, that probably was not the smartest thing to say. But from the start, when Balsillie arrived on the NHL landscape in 2006 as a Mark Cuban-like puckhead who wanted to bring a team back to Southern Ontario, tact was not his strong suit.

Balsillie’s plan was to target troubled teams in the U.S. So he set his sights on the Pittsburgh Penguins, because they had arena issues and a championship-ready roster featuring Sidney Crosby. When that did not work, he went after the vulnerable Nashville Predators, then the Phoenix Coyotes — both very publicly — while also kicking the tires of a couple of others privately.

The reason Balsillie never succeeded was not because of the money, or the NHL’s supposed fear of going back to Canada. No, the problem was that Balsillie, who tried to purchase the Coyotes through bankruptcy court, never respected the process.

Or rather, he never respected NHL commissioner Gary Bettman.

True North learns from Balsillie’s blunders | Posted Sports | National Post

"The Board was obviously very uncomfortable with approving Jim Balsillie as an owner. As a result, they rejected his application unanimously," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told ESPN.com in an e-mail.

"This had nothing whatsoever to do with the relocation issue," Bettman said "All that was considered was the suitability of the applicants of the owners."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4364771

Balsillie and the backdating scandal:

In 2007 Co-CEO Jim Balsillie was forced to resign as chairman as the company announced a $250-million earnings restatement relating to mistakes in how it granted stock options. Furthermore, an internal review found that hundreds of stock-option grants had been backdated, timed to a low share price to make them more lucrative.[52]
In January 2009, Canadian regulators stated that they were seeking a record penalty of $80 million USD from the top two executives, Co-CEOs Jim Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis. Furthermore, the Ontario Securities Commission (OSC) has pushed for Balsillie to pay the bulk of any penalty and relinquish his seat on RIM's board of directors for a period of time.

On February 5, 2009, several executives and directors of Research In Motion agreed to pay the penalties to settle an investigation into the backdating of stock options. The Ontario Securities Commission approved the arrangement in a closed-door meeting.
Under the terms of a settlement agreement with the OSC, RIM co-chief executive officers Jim Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis, as well as chief operating officer Dennis Kavelman, will jointly pay a total of $68-million (CDN) to RIM to reimburse the company for losses from the backdating and for the costs of a long internal investigation. The three are also required to pay $9-million (CDN) to the OSC.

The reason this stuff isn't more publicized is because it's coming from Canada. Our press isn't as active and co-ordinated as it is in the US.

Grapes, take it away:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZjPI68kzCw

Balsillie is a dork.

[freudling]

RIM's main PlayBook manufacturer is laying people off I read. I wonder how long they're going to be able to hold out until they pull the plug on the PlayBook? It's clear nobody wants it with only 200 k shipped to retail chains this past quarter, down over 100% from last quarter.

I can imagine the boardroom. They know as soon as they are forced to pull the plug on the PlayBook, it's going to be a PR nightmare and further strain their image and brand. I don't think they can outrun this past the next quarter.