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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Screw Greece - let them eat cake

Screw Greece - let them eat cake (Page 3)
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Big Mac
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May 10, 2012, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I thought the cuts made to programs and to the government work force brought its spending below its tax collection? It was the high interest of the debts that is still causing deficit spending.
And it's the high debt and inability to repay it that causes high interest rates.

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Athens
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May 10, 2012, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
And it's the high debt and inability to repay it that causes high interest rates.
I know that is the cause. But its also a self perpetuating situation because it strangles the economy in such a way it can't grow to over come it. The Reason Canada, US, and many other EU countries are not in the same situation with our debts is because our economies continue to grow compensating for it. Could you imagine the trouble the US would be in if the economy shrank to 1995 levels with the 17 Trillion in debt.
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May 11, 2012, 08:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
IMO, southern Europe provides no products/services that can pay off that debt. Low productivity and high inflation.....the outcomes of socialistic-policies/welfare-states.
Generalizing "southern Europe" is dangerous. Spain and Italy have big industries. Spain doesn't even have that big of a debt - their problem is that the deficit is huge and they're having trouble bringing it down the way the economy is going. Italy has a high debt, but they've always had that - they're doing no worse than they always have. Greece has always lived on tourism and still does, but they have to compete with other countries around the Mediterranean - most with cheaper currencies.

Blaming socialistic policies is also inaccurate. Italy was governed by rightist Christian Democrats for most of the post-WWII era, and recently by the right-wing populist Silvio Berlusconi. Italy's problems are that the northern half must carry the under-developed southern half and that its social systems actively discourage women with children from working - hardly socialist. The only element you could relate to that is the large (and inefficient) bureaucracy, but it was hardly set up by socialists. I'm less up to date on Spain, but it's also never been particularly left-wing. The part of Europe usually decried as "socialist" by Americans from a certain part of the political spectrum is Scandinavia, and we're actually doing OK right now.
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mduell
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May 11, 2012, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
If the national debt is only 500 Billion and with a insane interest rate, would it not make more sense to buy up all the debt, charge a .5% + the borrowing rate of interest to provide the breathing room to pay off the debt. Europe Collectively could do that. The US on its own could do that.
Why would anyone want to do that? There's no confidence Greece will ever pay it off, or even keep paying the interest.
     
turtle777  (op)
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May 23, 2012, 11:53 PM
 
Thanks for sticking around, guys, but that's. Stick a fork in it, Greece is done.

German Press: "The Greek Exit Is A Done Deal" | ZeroHedge

-t
     
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May 24, 2012, 05:25 AM
 
A deal done on iPads so I hear.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jun 7, 2012, 04:33 PM
 
And the latest from Greece ....

We now have a male politician tossing water in the face of a female politician. And following that up by slapping another female politician in the face repeatedly. On live television.

Manhunt for Greek lawmaker who hit female rival on live television - World News

OAW
     
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Jun 7, 2012, 05:54 PM
 
I wasn't aware before now that Greek politicians can't be charged with ANY crime once parliament is sitting. Certainly that ridiculous law is at the root of corruption in Greece.
     
turtle777  (op)
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Jun 18, 2012, 10:54 AM
 
LOL, so they kicked the can down the road for another few weeks. Let's see if they succeed in coalition talks.

My bet is: ND and PASOK will eventually form a coalition, and get some slack from the EU. It will not help. Greek's economy will continue to go down the crappers, they will require a new bailout, at which time, the EU is going to pull the plug.

I'm very convinced that the EU is merely wanting to buy time to prepare better for the Grexit.

Meanwhile: Spain - LOL, bonds are above 7%, Spain is dead.

-t
     
mduell
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Jun 18, 2012, 01:42 PM
 
I don't see much slack here:

GERMANY'S MERKEL SAYS CANNOT ACCEPT ANY LOOSENING OF AGREED REFORM PLEDGES IN GREECE AFTER ELECTION
MERKEL SAYS DOES NOT SEE ANY REASON TO SPEAK ABOUT A NEW AID PACKAGE FOR GREECE ON TOP OF THE TWO ALREADY AGREED
GERMANY'S MERKEL EXPECTS QUICK FORMATION OF NEW AND STABLE GOVERNMENT IN GREECE
     
turtle777  (op)
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Jun 18, 2012, 01:56 PM
 
I just doubt Germany is going to a hard stance. They have been very complicit in eroding so many rules and laws in the EU, they'll continue to give in, a little at the time.

I just don't see Germany say "Screw y'all."

Essentially, if Germany doesnt budge at all, Greece is going to fail on that account an trigger the Euro meltdown. I don't think Merkel has the balls to be the one 'causing' this.
All of Germany's actions have been geared towards plausible deniability that it was their 'fault' that the Euro collapsed.

-t
     
Doc HM
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Jun 19, 2012, 02:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Canada, US, and many other EU countries are not in the same situation with our debts is because our economies continue to grow
No growth here. Lots of additional emergency measures, "another" 100 odd billion £ straight into the banks pockets, plenty more cuts. No actual growth though.
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Doc HM
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Jun 19, 2012, 02:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
All of Germany's actions have been geared towards plausible deniability that it was their 'fault' that the Euro collapsed. -t
Who'd have thought it eh. That Greece's assessment of their own economy when joining the Euro was a crock of shit. They knew it, all the politicians knew it but it was more important to keep expanding the Euro than look at reality.There's a whole bunch of countries that had no business being joined up to the single currency but plenty of politicians looking at one giant playpen.

Back when it was formed I was a huge fan of the Euro and very keen for the UK to join. Boy was that a wrong call. Not because the concept is flawed, but the whole EU is built on shifting political sands.
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Athens
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Jun 19, 2012, 02:13 PM
 
There have been calls for North America to unit into a single currency, Canada, US and Mexico under one dollar. I have always been against it and after seeing what has happened in Europe now I am even more against it. I don't think any one in North America really wants a united currency at least at the political level, perhaps in the business communities. The advantages to business never out weigh the disadvantages for a country to control its own house of cards in a united currency. Germany is paying a lot to keep things a float. And the Greece issue is now dragging a lot of other economies down the tubes because of the unification of a currency. Because of the scale of the Euro its also dragging down the entire world now.

A common currency in a republic or union like Canada and its 13 Provinces and territories or the US with its 50 States and 1 district work because the absolute power for the currency is centralized with the head government. This concept fails when its dozens of independent countries because of no jurisdictional powers over a sovereign land. The Euro could only work if there was a single European central government in absolute control over the currency with each nation becoming states to that government.
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Athens
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Jun 19, 2012, 05:40 PM
 
BBC News - G20 summit: Fractious talks resume amid debt crisis

Looking at these numbers from the BBC, the UK seems to be in real bad shape with 450% debt
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turtle777  (op)
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Jun 19, 2012, 07:36 PM
 
But unlike the EU, the UK can freely print money.

Make no mistake though, there will be a day of reckoning for the UK, and it's going to be ugly.

-t
     
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Jun 19, 2012, 11:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
BBC News - G20 summit: Fractious talks resume amid debt crisis

Looking at these numbers from the BBC, the UK seems to be in real bad shape with 450% debt
Sadly, US politicians read things like this and say to themselves: "Wait, look at all the foreign debt we could have racked up like the UK did, but somehow didn't. WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG!!?!!!?"
     
 
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