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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Livni: "'your national solution lies elsewhere."

Livni: "'your national solution lies elsewhere." (Page 4)
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Wiskedjak
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Jan 4, 2009, 02:19 PM
 
It seems pretty clear to me that there's a secondary explosion. I think what you're seeing as "slow" is the smoke cloud forming from the initial explosion before the secondary explosion beneath the forming cloud.

I would not be at all surprised to see definitive proof that Hamas is storing weapons in Mosques. Just as I'm not surprised to learn that Israel isn't being as careful with it's missiles as it claims. I have a hard time seeing Palestinians as the victims while their elected government is lobbing missiles into Israel. Just as I have a hard time seeing Israel's actions as "defensive" when they result in 100 times more deaths than they're responding to.
     
Sayf-Allah  (op)
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Jan 4, 2009, 03:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
It seems pretty clear to me that there's a secondary explosion. I think what you're seeing as "slow" is the smoke cloud forming from the initial explosion before the secondary explosion beneath the forming cloud.
You'd see a short flash if there was a secondary explosion. Not a short and rather slow increase in heat on the IR video.

What the IOF marked as the secondary explosion is more likely just heat escaping from inside the building after the initial explosion. And explosion simply doesn't show a three second "flash".

"Learn to swim"
     
Chuckit
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Jan 4, 2009, 03:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Just as I have a hard time seeing Israel's actions as "defensive" when they result in 100 times more deaths than they're responding to.
You should read Ender's Game.
Chuck
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Wiskedjak
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Jan 4, 2009, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
You should read Ender's Game.
I've been meaning to get around to that one.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 4, 2009, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah View Post
You'd see a short flash if there was a secondary explosion. Not a short and rather slow increase in heat on the IR video.

What the IOF marked as the secondary explosion is more likely just heat escaping from inside the building after the initial explosion. And explosion simply doesn't show a three second "flash".
I don't know. There certainly seems to be a 'burst' of some sort shortly after the growing dark blob.
     
Splinter
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Jan 4, 2009, 03:58 PM
 
here, this mosque is more 'convincing'.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 4, 2009, 04:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
here, this mosque is more 'convincing'.
The secondary explosion is quite obvious in that video, except, with all the cloud cover, it's pretty much impossible to tell what's being blown up and 0:27 is a great place to splice in video of a different target being blown up.
     
ebuddy
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Jan 4, 2009, 07:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah View Post
Instead of giving me the actual times, you've referred me to a site in which I enter the names/zip codes. Okay, I enter Gaza, Gaza Strip and it returns;
- Daily
- 09:Ramadan (I'm guessing Ramadan equates to... :00 AM?)
- 1429 (I'm guessing a 24-hour clock)
- So... prayer hours are from 9:00AM to 2:29PM? Couple of questions;

1) I'm guessing if you can kill during prayer hours, you can be killed during prayer hours too. Hamas can fire rockets during this holy sacred time, but there shall be no retaliation during this holy sacred time?

2) Does anyone know exactly when Israel struck the Mosque? Everything I'm seeing either says "late in the day" or "early in the day" and I've even seen "during prayer hours", but none of those really seem to align with the link Sayf gave me. Are they just saying it was during prayer hours?

No, it's not a secondary explosion. It's way too slow to be an explosion. Just compare the first explosion with the "second explosion". Completely different.
Yeah, one is a missile from several thousand feet up and the other is a munitions detonation from within the confines of a concrete building. They should be "completely different".

No, they aren't getting rid of their own weapons. They have a completely different reason for it that I won't mention here.
I've not known you to hold back from telling it how you see it Sayf. Let'er rip. I have a hunch it is going to be a very loooong stretch into a conspiracy theory and when challenged regarding the details of the theory, it will get dropped or ignored. See, it's not enough to say Israel just wants to stir trouble, there has to be a logical reason why they'd want to. The last person to try this line of reasoning said simply that Israel has US on standby, but I don't see how that matters. You don't flush money down the toilet because you have a bigger toilet on standby. What is not in dispute is the well-documented military staging grounds among the civilian populace and rocket-launching from civilian infrastructure.

Plus, I'm not sure how these bombing raids are any surprise to those who live in this region. They'd have stepped over leaflets with email addresses and phone numbers to call to report that a munitions storage was located in their Mosques, they'd have gotten phone calls and even a sound bomb as a warning.
ebuddy
     
Chongo
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Jan 4, 2009, 08:14 PM
 
Prayers are five times daily at: sunrise, midday, afternoon, sunset, and midnight. Times are calculated by the position of the sun.
     
ebuddy
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Jan 4, 2009, 08:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Prayers are five times daily at: sunrise, midday, afternoon, sunset, and midnight. Times are calculated by the position of the sun.
Well in this case it'd be practically impossible to NOT attack during "prayer hours". It almost doesn't make sense to say they were attacked during prayer hours unless you're trying to bolster the view that Israelis are barbaric. I mean, this is akin to saying; "they attacked on the Holy Day of the week ending in 'Y'".
ebuddy
     
Chongo
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Jan 4, 2009, 09:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Prayers are five times daily at: sunrise, midday, afternoon, sunset, and midnight. Times are calculated by the position of the sun.
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Well in this case it'd be practically impossible to NOT attack during "prayer hours". It almost doesn't make sense to say they were attacked during prayer hours unless you're trying to bolster the view that Israelis are barbaric. I mean, this is akin to saying; "they attacked on the Holy Day of the week ending in 'Y'".
Especially when 4/5 prayers start and end back to back
Fajr (dawn)
The Fajr prayer starts with the rise of "white light" (fajar sadiq) in the east, and lasts until sunrise.

Dhuhr (midday)
The Dhuhr prayer starts after the sun passes its zenith, and lasts until Asr.

Asr (afternoon)
The Asr prayer starts when the shadow of an object is the same length as the object itself (or, according to Hanafi fiqh, twice its length) and lasts till sunset. Asr can be split into two sections; the preferred time is before the sun starts to turn orange, while the time of necessity (dharoori waqt) is from when the sun turns orange until sunset.

Maghrib (sunset)
The Maghrib prayer begins when the sun sets, and lasts till the red light has left the sky in the west.

Isha'a (midnight)
The Isha'a prayer starts when the red light is gone from the western sky, and lasts until the rise of the "white light" (fajar sadiq) in the east. The preferred time for Isha'a is before midnight, meaning halfway between sunset and sunrise.
     
Big Mac
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Jan 5, 2009, 04:16 AM
 
I'm sure Sayf would say that the Arab powers sneak attacking on the highest holiday in Judaism in 1973, when any remotely Jewish person is "afflicting" his or her soul through fasting and prayer, is perfectly acceptable.

Meanwhile, I was watching an interview from one Arab protester here in Los Angeles. He said that now people get to see the anger and the hatred that has been swelling up in the Arab/Muslim communities for quite some time. When is the Arab/Muslim community ever not angry over something? When are they* ever peaceful? When they massacred helpless Jews in Jerusalem in 1929? When they fought wars of annihilation against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973? When they murdered Israeli Olympic athletes in cold blood in at the Munich games? When they shot a wheel-chair bound Jewish man in the head and threw his body away after hijacking a cruise ship? When they killed American diplomats in the Sudan? When they break every promise made in one-sided peace negotiations? When they use guns given to them by Israel for the purpose of policing their own that they instead turn on Israeli soldiers? When they blow themselves up while holding shrapnel to murder and maim Jews in the most heinous with in marketplaces, buses, restaurants, and religious gatherings? When they murder Israelis and then horrifically dip their hands in Jewish blood to celebrate their evil deeds? When they pass out candy to their children after suicide bombings? When they pass out candy and cheer after 9/11? When they throw rocks at Israeli soldiers? When they destroy a sacred Jewish site, Joseph's Tomb, within hours of Israel abandoning it to them? When they kidnap and murder Israeli soldiers? When they continually pledge to destroy the "Zionist entity"? When they send thousands of rockets to physically harm and terrorize Israeli civilians, only to cry and complain and call for empty, one-sided cease-fires when the tables are turned and they experience the downsides of attacking Israel? When they pledge to wipe Israel off the map and shout death to the Jews, while pursuing nuclear weapons? I could go on and on. So I have to ask, when? When are they not hateful? And when will the rest of the world stop taking their crap and stop lambasting Israel for standing up for its citizens?

(*When I use the pronoun they, I don't mean all Arabs or all Muslims. Unfortunately, it is my view than an overwhelming majority of the Arab/Muslim world at least condones these evil actions.)
( Last edited by Big Mac; Jan 5, 2009 at 05:17 AM. )

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
 
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