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Backup software
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alex_kac
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May 19, 2012, 12:56 PM
 
Time Machine is pretty nice and sweet when you use a hard drive hooked up to your Mac. But over a network it seems to have some issues. We're using Lion Server with its TM Server and it hangs more often than I care.

So I'm looking at some alternatives. This is for a home with 5 Macs being backed up. Any thoughts? Incremental is a must. I'd really like the ability to get to older versions of stuff as well.
     
mduell
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May 19, 2012, 09:46 PM
 
rsync gives you incremental copy, the hard links option will let you space-efficiently version.

Write a little shell script to run it and set the directory name appropriately, cron it to run on whatever schedule you need. Voila you've reinvented network time machine without the shiny interface. Well I guess you need to also implement pruning at some point.
     
besson3c
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May 19, 2012, 10:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
rsync gives you incremental copy, the hard links option will let you space-efficiently version.

Write a little shell script to run it and set the directory name appropriately, cron it to run on whatever schedule you need. Voila you've reinvented network time machine without the shiny interface. Well I guess you need to also implement pruning at some point.
If you want the snapshots you'll also have to use cpio in conjunction with rsync, I'm pretty sure, but yeah, I used to do this on my home network.

Original poster, wouldn't it be a good idea to troubleshoot Time Machine before abandoning it for something else? There are many other solutions and a lot of threads about these in this forum, but if you like the overall design and implementation of Time Machine I'd suggest working on fixing it first.

If you wish to do this, can you please provide more info as to what is going on?
     
alex_kac  (op)
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May 19, 2012, 11:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
rsync gives you incremental copy, the hard links option will let you space-efficiently version.

Write a little shell script to run it and set the directory name appropriately, cron it to run on whatever schedule you need. Voila you've reinvented network time machine without the shiny interface. Well I guess you need to also implement pruning at some point.
While fine for me, not for my kids and wife. I'll pay for a good product. My time is way too valuable to mess with the above.
     
alex_kac  (op)
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May 19, 2012, 11:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
If you want the snapshots you'll also have to use cpio in conjunction with rsync, I'm pretty sure, but yeah, I used to do this on my home network.

Original poster, wouldn't it be a good idea to troubleshoot Time Machine before abandoning it for something else? There are many other solutions and a lot of threads about these in this forum, but if you like the overall design and implementation of Time Machine I'd suggest working on fixing it first.

If you wish to do this, can you please provide more info as to what is going on?
I have worked with Apple on it. It's just that TM is simply not designed for NAS backup and as such it cracks. I've got certified gigabit routers, wiring, etc.. RAID drives, and it works fine to backup except every few months it rebacks up everything. And restore takes an hour just to bring up the interface. It's just not workable. We've reformatted, reinstalled Mac OS Server, etc... And it doesn't change.

I don't have time to deal with this issue anymore. We just need a good backup that ideally we can get to a file from a week or two ago. I may just user super duper with alternating backups for a week or two. But I'd prefer something better. Retrospect is normally what I'd use, but it has such a bad reputation.
     
besson3c
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May 19, 2012, 11:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by alex_kac View Post
While fine for me, not for my kids and wife. I'll pay for a good product. My time is way too valuable to mess with the above.

So the time of people that decide to mess with this is not valuable?
     
alex_kac  (op)
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May 20, 2012, 12:15 AM
 
I am not making comments about other people's time. Everyone has a choice as to what their time is best spent on. My time is not best spent, today, on dealing with rsync. Basic Econ 101. If doing it at the cmd line with custom scripts was right for everyone, retail software would not exist. I've done it before and there was a point in time in my life it was worth it. I am not even expecting anyone to waste their time helping me if their time is not worth that. But just as I've spent time helping others over the last 15 years in the Communities I spend my time in, I am hopeful someone will have some time to help me.

Besson3c to me what I said above is pretty obvious and basic. I don't know why I had to explain that.
     
besson3c
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May 20, 2012, 12:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by alex_kac View Post
I am not making comments about other people's time. Everyone has a choice as to what their time is best spent on. My time is not best spent, today, on dealing with rsync. Basic Econ 101. If doing it at the cmd line with custom scripts was right for everyone, retail software would not exist. I've done it before and there was a point in time in my life it was worth it. I am not even expecting anyone to waste their time helping me if their time is not worth that. But just as I've spent time helping others over the last 15 years in the Communities I spend my time in, I am hopeful someone will have some time to help me.

Besson3c to me what I said above is pretty obvious and basic. I don't know why I had to explain that.

I just took issue with what I derived from what you wrote, and that is the notion that fiddling with that stuff is not worth anybody's time, and therefore the people that fiddle with it do not have valuable time. I have no issue with what you have written in this post.
     
alex_kac  (op)
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May 20, 2012, 12:41 AM
 
I'm not sure how you derived that. I clearly said 'my time'. In any case it's sad that TM has essentially killed the backup market. Retrospect was so good back in the day. Well to a degree. I guess I'm spoiled too. A few years ago the latest backup would suffice. Now TM's ability to go back in time 6 months searching for a change is what I want. But I believe the interface and assumptions in its implementation is what makes it unusable over the network, I really need a proper client/server system I guess..
     
besson3c
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May 20, 2012, 12:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by alex_kac View Post
I'm not sure how you derived that. I clearly said 'my time'. In any case it's sad that TM has essentially killed the backup market. Retrospect was so good back in the day. Well to a degree. I guess I'm spoiled too. A few years ago the latest backup would suffice. Now TM's ability to go back in time 6 months searching for a change is what I want. But I believe the interface and assumptions in its implementation is what makes it unusable over the network, I really need a proper client/server system I guess..

Have you looked at the ZEVO ZFS stuff? I'm not sure what the reports of reliability have been like yet, but technologically this is your (or anybody's) dream backup system:

- snapshots that literally take a second or two or three to run
- snapshots that take up an absolutely trivial amount of disk space - you could keep them for years
- support of the Time Machine space interface (although I'm not sure if this feature has been released yet)
     
alex_kac  (op)
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May 20, 2012, 01:54 AM
 
I have looked at zfs, but it runs locally. But I think I may have found something after reading Macintouch archives: Synk — Features
     
mduell
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May 20, 2012, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by alex_kac View Post
I've got certified gigabit routers, wiring, etc.. RAID drives,
This sounds oddly familiar to another thread...
     
alex_kac  (op)
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May 20, 2012, 02:07 PM
 
Wouldn't be me. I haven't posted here in awhile unfortunately. What other thread?
     
cgc
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May 20, 2012, 06:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by alex_kac View Post
I have looked at zfs, but it runs locally. But I think I may have found something after reading Macintouch archives: Synk — Features
I used to use Synk Pro a few years ago, great program and company.
     
   
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