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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > What Mail Client Do You Use?

View Poll Results: What email client do you use? Choose here! This pole closes in 30 days!
Poll Options:
I use Mozilla Thunderbird. 7 votes (7.61%)
I use Apple Mail. 66 votes (71.74%)
I like Postbox. 5 votes (5.43%)
I prefer to use a Webmail service (Like Yahoo or GMail) 13 votes (14.13%)
I don't have an email address. 1 votes (1.09%)
I like Opera. 0 votes (0%)
I like PMMail. 1 votes (1.09%)
SeaMonkey is my email client. 0 votes (0%)
I use a client that is not listed here. 8 votes (8.70%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll
What Mail Client Do You Use? (Page 3)
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besson3c
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May 10, 2009, 02:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
I like Postbox but the last time I tried it, I got the Mail/Thunderbird-style reply headers ('On x-date y-wrote:'). To me those are crude and unprofessional. I know there are arguments against it, but I just have an emotional reaction to it and really need Outlook-style reply headers. A Thunderbird extension gives me that, and if Postbox does it, I'll relook the app.
Tbird add-ons do not work in Postbox yet. That is my biggest complaint, I miss Enigmail!
     
Hal Itosis
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May 10, 2009, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
I like Postbox but the last time I tried it, I got the Mail/Thunderbird-style reply headers ('On x-date y-wrote:'). To me those are crude and unprofessional. I know there are arguments against it, but I just have an emotional reaction to it and really need Outlook-style reply headers.
Seems to just say y wrote: (beta 11)
What does "Outlook-style" look like?
-HI-
     
Cold Warrior
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May 10, 2009, 04:06 PM
 
To:
From:
Date:
Subject:


or similar order.
     
Andrew Stephens
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May 11, 2009, 03:15 PM
 
I use Apple Mail, by default really. I have Office 08 on my Mac but I try to open it as infrequently as possible and I find entourage fiddly, ugly and clunky.

While Mail has a great interface and works well on my pop accounts I find it's IMAP handling to be quite erratic. I hate the way messages appear in multiple mail boxes. Sometimes it gives me two copies of each message, sometimes not. Sometimes reading a mail in one mailbox will mark it as read in the others, sometimes not.

I use IMAP to ensure that I can get my mail on my laptop, iPhone and other work mac so I would love a better IMAP client. I tried Postbox but couldn't get on with it. I just want Mail to handle IMAP properly really.
     
all2ofme
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May 12, 2009, 03:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Just to be constructive, there is nothing more standard in terms of mailbox formats than IMAP. Why wrestle with importing/exporting Mail within your client when this is such a sure bet with using IMAP?
I took this route because if all goes wrong with Google's mail storage I'll have it all locally. I don't understand 100% how IMAP (which I *love* - it makes everything else seem so antiquated) would next sync if this were to happen. I'd hate to see my locally cached mails emptying themselves into the ether if the server-side ones vanished.

Because this is so unlikely it doesn't bother me overly that it's a clunky old app like TBird that holds my backups.

Maybe I'm still doing something silly - would be happy to learn if that's the case
     
besson3c
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May 12, 2009, 03:43 PM
 
I would still get another IMAP account as a backup.

The reason I say this is because mail clients change, and it can sometimes be a pain to get a clean mailbox import/export that keeps everything intact including your folder structure. With IMAP, transferring mail from one IMAP account to another is easy to do manually via drag and drop. If you want to automate this and only transfer what is new, there is a great open source script called "imapsync" that I use from time to time. You just have to feed it the server information as command line arguments to sync between accounts - this creates a perfect clone of your account that you can run as often as you like.

That being said, if you are using POP simply to keep a local backup of your mail, I guess that's okay, it's just transferring mail from one client to another or between accounts that seems to get hairy when you don't stick with IMAP.
     
besson3c
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May 12, 2009, 03:44 PM
 
Also TBird 3 is not a clunky old app. It may not look it, but where it matters (at least to me), it's a much better client than OS X Mail.
     
Chuckit
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May 12, 2009, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by all2ofme View Post
I took this route because if all goes wrong with Google's mail storage I'll have it all locally. I don't understand 100% how IMAP (which I *love* - it makes everything else seem so antiquated) would next sync if this were to happen. I'd hate to see my locally cached mails emptying themselves into the ether if the server-side ones vanished.

Because this is so unlikely it doesn't bother me overly that it's a clunky old app like TBird that holds my backups.

Maybe I'm still doing something silly - would be happy to learn if that's the case
For IMAP accounts I'm worried about backing up, I just set my mail client to copy all messages to another account (either a backup remote account or a local mailbox on your computer).

Also, any version of Thunderbird is a clunky old app where it matters (at least to me).
Chuck
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besson3c
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May 12, 2009, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
For IMAP accounts I'm worried about backing up, I just set my mail client to copy all messages to another account (either a backup remote account or a local mailbox on your computer).

Also, any version of Thunderbird is a clunky old app where it matters (at least to me).

OS X Mail is a very interesting example of how a great interface and some nice features can really carry what is a poor client underneath the hood (as has obviously been discussed at length).
     
Salty
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May 13, 2009, 04:06 PM
 
Mail is good for me, though post box looks really good. I would be nice for Apple to get rid of the bubbles though.
     
64stang06
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May 15, 2009, 01:29 PM
 
I do like how Postbox integrates with Address Book. I just noticed that today when I went to add an address.
( Last edited by 64stang06; May 15, 2009 at 09:15 PM. )
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cwkmacuser  (op)
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May 15, 2009, 07:54 PM
 
Hmm. I don't use address book, so I wouldn't know.
Chris K.
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JKT
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May 16, 2009, 09:57 AM
 
If it didn't tie in with Address Book, then I couldn't use it at all, which reminds me of another reason why I didn't take to TBird 2 at the time and why Entourage is just another MS dog turd...

Anyway, I'm a bit reluctant to use Postbox while its still in beta - it seems from the number of releases recently that it still has a fair few bugs to be and being fixed for the upcoming 1.0 release; though, I could risk my GMail "spam" accounts in it I suppose. Btw, that isn't meant as a bad thing - its good to see how development progresses and that it is definitely actively being updated, but I wouldn't like to trust my main e-mail accounts to a beta app just yet.
( Last edited by JKT; May 16, 2009 at 10:33 AM. )
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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May 16, 2009, 10:27 AM
 
Oh, you can trust them to Postbox. It's a pretty stable program. I don't have problems with it, except for an occasional bug that I find.
Chris K.
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0157988944
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May 16, 2009, 12:18 PM
 
Mail works for me: multiple email accounts, Mac integration. Search sucks but I don't have to use it that often.
     
besson3c
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May 16, 2009, 12:39 PM
 
JKT: you ought to be fine with Postbox. The main stuff they are working on polishing is interface/front end stuff. Since the backend is Thunderbird it is completely stable and performs quite nicely. Honestly, it is more stable than OS X Mail has ever been for me.
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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May 16, 2009, 03:46 PM
 
Yeah, I really like it. It's easy to use but gives me so much power!
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turtle777
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May 16, 2009, 10:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
OS X Mail is a very interesting example of how a great interface and some nice features can really carry what is a poor client underneath the hood (as has obviously been discussed at length).
Thunderbird is a very interesting example of how a capable client underneath the hood can really carry what has a shitty interface and user experience.

-t
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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May 16, 2009, 11:50 PM
 
Yeah, Mail is very crappy, which is why I tried it for about 10 minutes and closed down the program, never ever to use it again.

Ugh...horrible wireless internet
Chris K.
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hatehereyes
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May 17, 2009, 12:02 AM
 
Apple mail does what I need it to do.

Works fine for me.
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besson3c
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May 17, 2009, 12:05 AM
 
cwkmacuser: do you know how to use iMovie? Could you make us a movie of you doing a cartwheel? That would be awesome. I can't do a cartwheel.
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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May 17, 2009, 12:09 AM
 
I know how to use iMovie, but am still kind of horrible at using iMovie '08. I switched at the end of December when I got my MacBook, and I'm still having trouble getting used to how to use it.

I can't do a cartwheel! Why are we talking about this is a thread about email clients! Great, now we'll get dinged for derailing threads! How about we talk about this in Life, Sockpuppets, and Everything Else. Back to the topic...
Chris K.
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64stang06
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May 17, 2009, 01:06 PM
 
One thing I miss from Mail is the global inbox. Postbox doesn't seem to have that as far as I can tell. Just a minor annoyance with it. Other than that, I love it so far. I'm just hoping that it doesn't cost too much once they finalize it.
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Hal Itosis
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May 27, 2009, 12:43 PM
 
Never heard of this one, but it looks interesting: Revolver Mail
VersionTracker lists it as freeware... but the website seems to mention 360€ !?
Anyone here understand German? What's the real deal?
-HI-
     
OreoCookie
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May 27, 2009, 01:21 PM
 
It's a groupware solution. And yes, the price is 359 €.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
JKT
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Jun 12, 2009, 10:55 AM
 
Sorry for reviving this thread but I finally got around to trying out Postbox. I have to say I am really disappointed after all the positive reviews here, that it is just a different GUI on Thunderbird but one that is just as much a bad hack as that one is. It doesn't support OS X features properly: no Services, no Font panel, no Dictionary, no integration with iCal or Address Book, etc and a faked OS X toolbar, contextual menus and dialogues a la Firefox and Thunderbird. Unfortunately, this makes it impossible to use for me. The UI is certainly a lot nicer to look at than Thunderbird's and it seems like it has some potentially useful features but the lack of integration with the system kills it for me. Damn, I had high hopes.
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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Jun 12, 2009, 11:12 AM
 
If it still let you bump, I think you're OK

Hmm, I guess I have lower expectations. I almost never use iCal, and in several years of using mac, I only opened Address Book once.
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Hal Itosis
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Jun 12, 2009, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by JKT View Post
It doesn't support OS X features properly: no Services, no Font panel, no Dictionary, no integration with iCal or Address Book, etc
Agreed. I (for one) will send them some bitchy feedback mentioning those points. [After all, it is a beta... and things might/could improve if enough wheels squeak.] I already complained to them about its lack of AppleScript support (though, that may be a lost cause... idunno).

Originally Posted by JKT View Post
and a faked OS X toolbar, contextual menus and dialogues a la Firefox and Thunderbird.
Not sure i follow that part totally. Could you expand on it please?
-HI-
     
0157988944
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Jun 12, 2009, 12:42 PM
 
Just try "Customize Toolbar" and you'll see how it sucks. (Compare it to customizing Mail's toolbar if you still don't see it.) I don't know why that's necessary for Postbox at all. It makes a LITTLE sense on Firefox and Thunderbird because of their theming scheme, but it's just poor quality for Postbox.
     
JKT
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Jun 12, 2009, 01:43 PM
 
What adam said. The contextual menus in Postbox (and Firefox and TBird) also have square corners on a Leopard system which is wrong.

Wrt to dialogues - not faked, sorry that was a mistaken inclusion. What is non-standard though is how menus disappear from the menubar when you open the Preferences. It happens in NeoOffice too and it is no less jarring in Postbox. Collapsing the toolbar in Preferences is also wrong - the line to distinguish the titlebar from the main pane disappears.

However, it is the lack of integration with the system and other iApps that is the major issue for me, the UI problems were my first indication that I was about to experience them.
     
besson3c
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Jun 12, 2009, 01:44 PM
 
As nice as better OS X integration would be, it's not worth the tradeoff of going back to a completely brain dead IMAP client in OS X Mail that is light on useful features, at least not for me.
     
JKT
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Jun 12, 2009, 01:51 PM
 
Actually, I was right - the preferences dialogue is 'faked'. Just click a colour well in e.g. the Composition>General pane, or the Display>Formatting pane.
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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Jun 12, 2009, 03:06 PM
 
I don't understand a word anyone is posting here. In terms a dummy could understand, what's wrong with Postbox?
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0157988944
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Jun 12, 2009, 03:30 PM
 
nothing.
     
turtle777
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Jun 12, 2009, 03:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
I don't understand a word anyone is posting here. In terms a dummy could understand, what's wrong with Postbox?
It breaks many OS X UI (user interface) guidelines and principles, therefore, making it ugly to look at and unintuitive to use.

-t
     
besson3c
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Jun 12, 2009, 04:19 PM
 
I'm not sure it translates to unintuitive to use... Dictionary and other OS X services would be nice. As far as ugly, I usually don't stare at my email toolbar icons and window dressings all day. I get my ugliness from the email messages themselves
     
JKT
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Jun 12, 2009, 05:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
I don't understand a word anyone is posting here. In terms a dummy could understand, what's wrong with Postbox?
Some real world examples:

1. I use MobileMe, iCal, Address Book and an iPhone so if the app doesn't integrate with any of these then it is useless for me. E.g. If I receive an e-mail with a date in it for an event, I can add it to iCal from within Mail because of its data detector system. This is not present in Postbox. Similarly, if I need to add an address to Address Book from Mail, I can do it easily. Any changes to iCal and Address Book are automatically synched to MobileMe and appear on my iPhone (or vice versa) straight away. Additionally, many apps I use on my system make use of iCal and Address Book as well so if my e-mail app doesn't support them, and has its own versions which are inaccessible to my other apps, then it isn't possible for me to make use of it.

2. A number of the apps I use on my Mac make use of Services to process the content of e-mails. E.g. OmniFocus can clip the contents of or the entire e-mail into its own database and leave a pointer to the original message (so you can go and view it back in Mail if you need to). This all works via Services. Therefore, it is not possible with Postbox. Therefore, I can't use it.

3. I already have a perfectly serviceable spelling dictionary on my Mac which is system-wide and has already been taught things like the spelling of my unusual surname or those of my friends or that of my street, etc. I don't want to use an app which doesn't support that dictionary and requires me to teach it all over again.

4. Similarly, the system-wide Font panel already includes my favourite fonts and the system-wide Colour palette already has chits for my preferred and most commonly used colours. I don't want to use an app that doesn't support either of them and makes me recreate what is already present and used by everything else.

5. My passwords and usernames etc. are all stored in the system's Keychain app. I don't want to have to input the ones for my e-mail all over again and store them in a format that isn't synched to all my other systems via MobileMe.

6. If I drag a column in a Mac app, I expect it to behave like dragging a column in all other Mac apps. If I customise my toolbar in a Mac app, I expect it to happen in the same way as all other Mac apps. Etc. In other words, it isn't (just) the ugliness that I have a problem with (let's face it, if it was, I wouldn't be using Mail with its hideous toolbar icons), it is the unexpected way of functioning that I object to.
     
turtle777
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Jun 12, 2009, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
As far as ugly, I love Linux. 'Nuff said.
Fixinated.

-t
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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Jun 12, 2009, 06:13 PM
 
As far as ugly toolbars, I think there's a way to eliminate the icons and use only words.

I'm just not that picky. I never use Address Book, because I think an Address Book should be part of a mail client, not a separate program. Colors and fonts? Why would an email client need support for that?
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besson3c
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Jun 12, 2009, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Fixinated.

-t
Was that little dig necessary? Feel better?
     
Hal Itosis
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Jun 12, 2009, 06:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by adamfishercox View Post
Just try "Customize Toolbar" and you'll see how it sucks. (Compare it to customizing Mail's toolbar if you still don't see it.) I don't know why that's necessary for Postbox at all. It makes a LITTLE sense on Firefox and Thunderbird because of their theming scheme, but it's just poor quality for Postbox.
Oh yeah... now i remember one thing about customize toolbar: in order to drag items around to rearrange things, we need to 'almost' double-click them. I.e., a single click-and-drag doesn't work. Instead, start a double-click... but don't release the second click. Then drag. That is crappy.
-HI-
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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Jun 12, 2009, 06:28 PM
 
I just did it and clicked only once. Must be your computer.
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Hal Itosis
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Jun 12, 2009, 11:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
I just did it and clicked only once. Must be your computer.
Great, maybe they finally fixed it (which is encouraging). I don't rearrange my toolbar once set, so... i haven't checked it out in months (at least 2 betas have come and gone since it happened).
-HI-
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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Jun 13, 2009, 12:33 AM
 
Well, I haven't got the newest Beta yet, but I think they fixed it in Beta 11.
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AKcrab
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Jun 13, 2009, 01:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
I never use Address Book, because I think an Address Book should be part of a mail client, not a separate program.
How is that better? Mail interfaces directly with Address Book, as well as maintains a database of contacts that you've chosen to not store in Address Book within Mail itself.
Colors and fonts? Why would an email client need support for that?
Not everyone wants to send plain black and white text only emails.
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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Jun 13, 2009, 01:45 AM
 
Not every thinks that HTML should be in emails! I wouldn't mind at all if Postbox didn't support HTML. Why do we need to send wepages by email? Why don't we just write in plain text.
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turtle777
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Jun 13, 2009, 03:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Was that little dig necessary? Feel better?
Hello Besson. Do you still like me ?

My favorite sausage is from Germany.

May I poop on your kitchen floor ?

-t
     
Hal Itosis
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Jun 13, 2009, 03:25 AM
 
Well, it seems the Postbox developers must be aware of these issues... so it's probably just a matter of "demand". Below are some threads already in progress. (i just grabbed what i could find during 15 minutes of poking around).

What's kind of handy is: in each of those threads are links with text such as:
  • I have this problem too
  • I have this question too
  • I like this idea
  • This is one of the best points
All i can say is: if anyone here wants to see Postbox become a *real* Mac program one day, sign in and click on some of those links. Or... add a comment, if so inspired.

@cwkmacuser
: you can help by just clicking some of those convenient "me too" links... even if you (currently) don't perceive these issues as actual problems. Thanks!

Can Postbox use the Mac OS X spell checker?

Better OS Integration

Postbox integration with iCal and other Mac apps

Mac OS X iCal and Address Book into Postbox!
-HI-
     
JKT
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Jun 13, 2009, 04:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
As far as ugly toolbars, I think there's a way to eliminate the icons and use only words.
Ugly does not just mean the looks, it also means the way it works - the iconography in Postbox is pretty good actually but the way the toolbar works is ugly. If it doesn't work the same as everything else on your system then it is really ugly to use.

Btw, the column dragging - initially I didn't think I could drag a column as there is no visual feedback that you are moving one. I was trying to move the read/unread status column to the left of the subject heading but because I was only dragging it a few cm and it hadn't crossed the Subject column fully, there was no feedback that the column was being dragged at all. The column only moves once you get it to the other side. For a proper Mac app, there is visual feedback that the column is being dragged (it pops out of position, becomes translucent and moves with the cursor). In terms of Postbox, that is not only ugly, non-standard behaviour but also completely unintuitive too as it gives the wrong impression that nothing is happening.

I'm just not that picky. I never use Address Book, because I think an Address Book should be part of a mail client, not a separate program. Colors and fonts? Why would an email client need support for that?
An Address Book that only works in one app is a useless Address Book in OS X. So many other third-party apps link into Address Book or iCal or Mail (and these three all link into each other as well), that it is vital that any third-party competition to either one of those three apps must also integrate with the other two in the set and the other apps on your system. If it doesn't then it is crippleware on OS X.

Fwiw, I am not advocating using HTML and images in an e-mail (though it certainly has its place for business), just some old-fashioned, rich text formatting that makes things clearer for the end user, etc. This isn't the 90's anymore.
     
cwkmacuser  (op)
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Jun 13, 2009, 01:41 PM
 
Hal Itosis - I think it is a real mac program. I certainly won't pledge for Address Book, because it's kind of silly. Why have a separate program for that? Why not use the one already in Postbox?

I do have one major problem with Postbox: No group feature. It's very handy to have and I have to use my Webmail service for that, which I just hate.
( Last edited by cwkmacuser; Jun 13, 2009 at 02:03 PM. )
Chris K.
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Don't hold me accountable for jokes-I have a lousy sense of humor!
     
 
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