[sek929]

With the game in stores and my hands tomorrow I decided to start an official Metro 2033 thread.

So far a gripe appears to revolve around the shooting aspect, saying the guns feel underpowered and the enemies absorb quite a few rounds. To me this almost seems on purpose, in a survival horror game it would really kill the mood of impending doom if your pistol did every baddie in with only a couple shots.

Another gripe is the difficulty curve is steep, which only means to me that it's going to be a challenge, and not the typical next-gen approach of cinematic quality visuals and a difficulty curve only an infant would find challenging.

Big names are being thrown around to compare with Metro 2033 (Bioshock, Half Life 2, Fallout 3) and that worries me. I doubt the game will compare with one of the finest shooters to ever be made (Half Life 2) and hopefully they pulled enough info from the book to have a very well-rounded story (ala Bioshock) but comparing this game to Fallout 3 seems a stretch. Sure they both take place post-global-thermonuclear-war, but to me it doesn't seem like they share a single thing in common otherwise. I wish M2033 could be touted without having to allude to other popular games that may or may not share elements with it.

I was fairly disappointed with the last 360 survival-horror (Condemned 2) game I bought, but of course I fell madly in love with the STALKER series of shoot-em-up horror. I look forward to my nerves being shot and not wanting to play in the dead of night.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Let me know how it is. Still looks to typical for me.

Gonna be pounding back GOW3 too

[Kevin Bogues]

awaiting my paycheck friday i'm picking this up, Sek you'll have to let me know how it is. A couple of the things i've read have made me both excited/worried.

[sek929]

Popping it in the 360 now...

[The Final Dakar]

The review would leave me a little shaky if I was a fan of the genre.

[sek929]

I'll give 4A the benefit of the doubt, so far it's been light action mixed with cutscenes and on-rails (literally) sections. The few enemies I have fought go down easy enough (on 'medium' difficulty) and all the muzzle flash and kickback on the weapons makes even easy encounters wild firefights.

The loading screens are punctuated by narration from the main character. It's the only time I can remember waiting on a loading screen when I can hit A and proceed at any time, the voice acting is top-notch.

Still confused at the ammunition trading system, instead of screwing myself early in the game I've made do with the weapons I'm given. I'm at the beginning of my first real mission now, decided to give it a rest till I can experience it proper tonight (with darkness, headphones, and copius THC).

Even the original STALKER received mixed reviews, mostly from it being fairly buggy and somewhat unpredictable. People complained about the weapon degradation (which I like) and overall difficulty (also like) but I found the game to be pretty damn awesome.

Not that I've already given M2033 a rave review, it's way to early for that, but I'm cautiously optimistic at what lies ahead.

Side note: I was asked if I pre-ordered M2033 at GameStop (normally wouldn't have gone there, but I have an X-mas gift card) to which I said no. Of course he starts his spiel, etc etc. Then he asks me after ringing me up if I want to pre-order the new Splinter Cell. I say no and he says, "Aww man you are gonna miss out again, you even get a custom weapon."

I know it's his job but seriously, does every person buy every game? I'm buying a FPS and you are up-selling me on a third person espionage action game? While I'm at it I might as well pre-order the Sony Move.

[The Final Dakar]

They work under the junk mail theory... they just bomb you with up-sells in the hopes one sticks. Just another reason why I don't shop at Gamestop.

[Kevin Bogues]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Side note: I was asked if I pre-ordered M2033 at GameStop (normally wouldn't have gone there, but I have an X-mas gift card) to which I said no. Of course he starts his spiel, etc etc. Then he asks me after ringing me up if I want to pre-order the new Splinter Cell. I say no and he says, "Aww man you are gonna miss out again, you even get a custom weapon."

I know it's his job but seriously, does every person buy every game? I'm buying a FPS and you are up-selling me on a third person espionage action game? While I'm at it I might as well pre-order the Sony Move.

You should of pre ordered splinter cell so i have a co-op partner! but besides that I absolutely hate the gamestop selling and absolutely refuse to shop there unless trade in's are occurring. I've been in retail sales before but that technique of sign up for this and that and pre-order every game coming out for the rest of the decade pisses me off. I've told off a few gamestop employees after they refused my refusal (what?!).

[Kevin Bogues]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Still confused at the ammunition trading system, instead of screwing myself early in the game I've made do with the weapons I'm given. I'm at the beginning of my first real mission now, decided to give it a rest till I can experience it proper tonight (with darkness, headphones, and copius THC).

This is a gameplay mechanic i'm unsure about, i'm hoping it will work out in a way where the decision between cash/ammo has meaning and significance to the type of tactic you use. It could easily be a throw away but from what i read with the scarcity of ammo, it could be a save/harvest little sister type decision.

[sek929]

You can trade 'good' ammo for 'crappy' ammo at a large exchange rate. Of course the good ammo is supposed to deal more damage, how much more remains to be seen.

[Kevin Bogues]

I'm hoping for a more in depth Fatty review later.

All the complaints seem to revolve around the shooting mechanics and AI.
We usually have similar taste in gaming, let me know once you get some more time in

[sek929]

Shooting is actually very similar to STALKER. Meaning that there is plenty of inaccuracy, muzzle flash, and long reloads. Adds to the realism IMO. The AI in general isn't overly impressive and it's not incredibly apparent when you land a shot, though if you do enough damage you can expect the usual 'guy-getting-shot' animations that let you know you're on the right track. So far I'm thoroughly enjoying the throwing knife, which is plenty effective. I've heard the complaints about it bouncing off of enemies, and you know what? That's what a hand thrown knife would do when there isn't absolute perfection involved, plus a knife to the head does the trick.

All in all the complaints (to me) seem to actually be pluses in my book. Yes it's hard. I had to play a certain area 5 times before getting it right, but that was rewarding not to have everything spoon-fed to me. I took a while stuck in an area topside only to discover later that I had already passed the path I was supposed to take. The world is superbly crafted and as I said previously the voice acting is some of the best in any videogame.

It's not meant to be the 'everything is perfect in a vacuum' shooter that CoD or Half Life 2 is. You are in the decaying ruins of a subterranean race of humans. Your weapons are jury rigged together and you are a regular 20 year old man who wouldn't be able to fire an AK47 like a green beret.

More to come...

[Kevin Bogues]

I keep reading so much about the gas mask/map/lighter for realism,
Does the "real" map/objective screen pause the games action or is it brought up while walking or fighting?

[sek929]

The objective 'screen' is a clipboard you whip out in real time, the lighter is a separate part of that objective 'screen' and requires you to light it after you've brought up your 'map.' Nothing pauses the game except hitting start.

Luckily you can simply hit select and pull up your clipboard while running/moving/etc and see the compass which points the direction towards your objective. Hitting R trigger afterwards pulls the whole clipboard into view, and hitting the L trigger lights the lighter. It's a good system, if the environment is to hectic to do all three steps you can simply hit select and see where the compass is pointing you.

The game is linear, so far very similar to Half Life 2 in as such you can usually see where you need to get but have to take a roundabout route to get there. There is reward in taking your time and searching carefully, near the very beginning of the game you are able to get a pneumatic sniper rifle (scope-less unfortunately) just by taking a small detour. Otherwise it's very strait forward, but not so much so that you will always immediately know where to go, which becomes interesting when you are topside and your breathing starts to get louder.

I like the way it builds suspense and horror. To many games rely on silence and sudden sharp noises to scare, or enemies that spawn behind you after you've triggered them. The mutants shriek and howl before attacking, and the sound will let you know where they plan to attack from. Even then fights with several mutants can get really overwhelming, compounded with the fact your medkit takes a good 5 seconds from hitting Y to healing you.

Topside your companion refers to men who make a living scavenging the surface as STALKERS, and during a tunnel trip you encounter an electrical anomaly. I was right in thinking this game would share alot of spirit with STALKER, and that is not a bad thing by any means. It's like they took the overly-ambitions open world STALKER and slimmed it down into an intense single-player experience. The story is ever-present, and I find myself listening intently to strangers conversations in order to piece the world together.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Kevin Bogues 

All the complaints seem to revolve around the shooting mechanics and AI.

If those 3 things are an issue in a FPS there's a major problem.

[sek929]

The complaints revolving around the AI have more to do with jerky movements and unnatural character animations at times than anything else. Your companion AI works freaking great, better than any other game I've played. They managed this by doing the polar opposite of what other games do. They have YOU follow THEM, as opposed to the AI following you into every closet you explore and trapping you in. They are able to actually shoot and kill enemies while not taking all the difficulty out of large battles.

The enemy AI isn't terribly clever, but I think it would make the game damn near unplayable with smart AI. A game with perfect enemy AI and flawless shooting is F.E.A.R., but that game coincidentally sucks ass.

I like the STALKER series and Metro 2033 because of their eccentricities, they aren't a polished, soulless EA game and that's the way I'd prefer it.

[sek929]

The 8-hour mark I've heard for beating M2033 must have been done by somebody not interesting in stealth or neat NPC interactions and playing on easy because I'm already past that mark and I figure I'm about a little over halfway in. I've run through several difficult areas (a strategy that is rewarded at times) so I'm not crouch-walking through the whole game just to make it last longer.

I'd estimate playing on normal and taking a normal amount of time going through the game would net you a solid 15 hours. Which is right up there with the length of Bioshock for me.

[sek929]

Why not, trip post incoming...

The score so far based on my own criteria:

Atmosphere (graphics, sound, NPC audio, cutscenes): 12/10
Controls: 7/10
Inventory: 6/10
AI: 8/10

Overall Score: B-

I'll elaborate on the two lower scores once I finish up the game. Also, the graphics are amazing, on my SDTV...so those with HDTVs can make their own judgement.

I wouldn't call it a must buy for everyone, but if you were interested at all upon hearing what the game was about you certainly should give it a try. I consider my 60 dollars well spent, more so than several games I already own.

[Kevin Bogues]

just walked in from work, picked up Metro 2033 on the way home. Booting up the 360 now.

[Stogieman]

Sprinkles & I are at the edge of our seats. Please tweet emotion you feel and every action you perform as you play this game.

[Kevin Bogues]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

Sprinkles & I are at the edge of our seats. Please tweet emotion you feel and every action you perform as you play this game.

Are you sure you want every action?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Kevin Bogues 

Are you sure you want every action?

Exclude lust related ones.

[sek929]

Map

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Strange that a game that gets meh reviews still gets so much hype.

[sek929]

Strange that a game you have no interest in keeps bringing you back to post about it.

Game reviewers are fickle retards, they'll give dreck like Darksiders a 10/10. I prefer to make my own judgements, and my judgment is that Metro 2033 is a good game that survival horror fans will love, is that you? If not please take you smarmy comments to another thread. This thread is for people playing and interested in Metro 2033.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Strange that a game you have no interest in keeps bringing you back to post about it.

Game reviewers are fickle retards, they'll give dreck like Darksiders a 10/10. I prefer to make my own judgements, and my judgment is that Metro 2033 is a good game that survival horror fans will love, is that you? If not please take you smarmy comments to another thread. This thread is for people playing and interested in Metro 2033.

Why you so pissy, air run out of your gas mask or something?

I WAS semi-interested in it but the reviews all have the same major issues with it. I do like survival horror but to me this looks more like a FPS no?

I was curious to see if the user reviews were the same as the reviewers which is why I came by.
Judging by your sensitivity on the matter I can only gather you are rather disappointed by it as well.

[Calvin Blair]

what exactly are the enemies in this game, infected people? army? zombie?

[sek929]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I WAS semi-interested in it but the reviews all have the same major issues with it. I do like survival horror but to me this looks more like a FPS no?

Is the shooting ever a hallmark of survival horror? No, so it shouldn't bother you that M2033 has an imperfect shooting system. I'd say it's halfway between a true survival horror and a true FPS. The problems I've heard about the stealth system have not manifested themselves at all, looking at Bogues' achievements he was able to beat the Nazi level without killing a single enemy. Seems like the stealth works fine to me.

I am not disappointed with the game, quite the opposite. It has its faults, but much like the STALKER series I feel those incongruences make the game more unique than those from American developers.

Its greatness lies in the atmosphere (which considering their previous games comes as no surprise) and the story. Both hallmarks of a good survival horror. Both other horror games I own (FEAR and Condemned 2) are thoroughly bested by Metro 2033 despite its faults.

If you were truly interested in this game you'd do well to buy it. At least then you can complain about it from a first person perspective. I've seen scores for Metro 2033 ranging from 65 (which is stupid low) to 95 (which is to high).

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Calvin Blair 

what exactly are the enemies in this game, infected people? army? zombie?

Other human soldiers, both poorly equipped to full on silenced weapons and night vision. Giant mutated rats underground and gargoyle-esque flying beasts above. That and a few others, don't want to spoil everything through.

Don't expect a huge variety of enemies lining each other up in ascending order of strength. You'll cut your teeth on a few rats and end up eventually fighting hordes of them.

[Kevin Bogues]

With a few hours of gameplay in i'll put a vote of confidence in EVERYTHING Mr. Fatty has said. The game IS NOT a MW2 type shooter or a full of survival horror but what it IS, is a refreshing mix of everything i love about gaming. It has a fantastic story with an imaginative environment.

Some of the smallest elements in this game make it like nothing else out this generation (maybe any generation of gaming). The first time my light ran out of juice during a hectic battle and I had to run and charge up the battery with the RT all while making i didn't hit a deadly trip wire set with explosives, i fell in love with this game.

Usually i check reviews for each and every game i buy, but like Sek said, i take them with a grain of salt. The things certain sites hate or degrade a game for are really nothing but second fiddle to the amazing environments and all the good things a game has to offer.

The achievement list in this game is unlike any other, it really CREATES not just forces you to play the game in different ways. I ran through the list of achievements prior to playing and i can't wait to beat the campaign and then run right back through.

[Kevin Bogues]

Originally Posted by sek929 

...looking at Bogues' achievements he was able to beat the Nazi level without killing a single enemy. Seems like the stealth works fine to me.

The two levels i beat without killing an enemy provided some of the best gaming sessions of recent memory, Maybe i should throw up the spoiler tag...

 

but on the level "Frontline", i came across a completely hidden out of the way trail to get through the level in "stealth" mode, following some pipes and taking a few leaps of faith onto some hopefully sturdy rails got me through (not without death) but satisfying none the less.

[sek929]

Ah yes, listening to conversations is not only interesting it also helps you out from time to time.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Kevin Bogues 

Some of the smallest elements in this game make it like nothing else out this generation (maybe any generation of gaming). The first time my light ran out of juice during a hectic battle and I had to run and charge up the battery with the RT all while making i didn't hit a deadly trip wire set with explosives, i fell in love with this game.

 

Once you go topside after giving the Nazis underground the slip I had an interesting situation. Plenty of ammo, but only 1 remaining air filter. I emerge topside only to see a whole squad of Nazis forming around me. I hid in a ditch listening to their conversation, and my steadily increasing breathing hasted the situation. In the end waiting it out and slipping by unnoticed was the best plan despite the feeling I was about to run out of air.

[sek929]

So Bogues has beaten the game before me, and gotten far more cheivies than me.

Looks like a second playthrough on easy is in order.

[Kevin Bogues]

I'm sure you can attest to the fact that once you started playing it was far too addicting to stop, I had two huge sessions back to back Friday and saturday which put me through to the early end part of the story.

I plan on doing a second run on easy also looking for some achieves and the alternate ending which I read is awesome (the regular ending was good).


Sek, let me know when you finish, I need your take on the storys finale and your comments on a 'view' from up high at the end (which i thought was like seeing the destroyed Washington Monument in F3 for the first time..awesome)

[sek929]

If you found M2033 addicting then I urge you to check out STALKER. Make sure to get all the updates, since the game was released with a laundry list of bugs.

For comparison I was able to play the game on Medium settings with a 128mb GFX card and 4GB RAM.

Edit: STALKER - Shadow of Chernobyl is the game I'm talking about.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Kevin Bogues 

Sek, let me know when you finish, I need your take on the storys finale and your comments on a 'view' from up high at the end (which i thought was like seeing the destroyed Washington Monument in F3 for the first time..awesome)

I loved the end of the game, which is something that can't always be said. Very similar to STALKER (again). Having what it essentially a playable cutscene, with dying still possible, was really inventive and thoroughly satisfied my curiosity about the Dark Ones...even if they left plenty to the imagination.

I was compelled to immediately start the game again, but by then it was MW2 time. I look forward to my second run.

The ending was actually good enough for me to raise my original B- score to a solid B. Well done 4A.

[Kevin Bogues]

I started my second run on easy, I looked up a checklist for things to do for the alternate ending.

Overall great game, gets a solid B from me.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Is the shooting ever a hallmark of survival horror? No, so it shouldn't bother you that M2033 has an imperfect shooting system.

No but I do have a problem if the game is unbalanced or the control messed up it really turns me off. The latest Silent hill was a wash for me because of the controls and the wonky controls in Resident EvilS forced me to quit playing no matter how hard I wanted to like it.

6 bullets to the head with little effect is just as bad for me too.

[sek929]

If you play on Normal, one good shot to a foe without an armored helmet will take him down.

AFAIK the shooting has always been really wonky in the Resident Evil games, kind of like you are a real human that doesn't shoot perfectly...pretty much the point of survival horror is that you are a normal person surviving against all odds.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by sek929 

If you play on Normal, one good shot to a foe without an armored helmet will take him down.

AFAIK the shooting has always been really wonky in the Resident Evil games, kind of like you are a real human that doesn't shoot perfectly...pretty much the point of survival horror is that you are a normal person surviving against all odds.

True and I find most suck. Dead space was good though without having any major cripples to the controls just to make it harder to win.

[sek929]

Dead Space was technically perfect, but entirely bland and forgettable.

Metro 2033 has rough edges, but is more unique and interesting.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Dead Space was technically perfect, but entirely bland and forgettable.

Metro 2033 has rough edges, but is more unique and interesting.

Well to each his own I thought Dead Space was memorable, different because of:

1) The space locations
2) Unique "space construction equipment" type weapons
3) enemies where you have to concentrate on removing limbs not headshots
4) Zero Gravity environments
5) Time controls

I liked it so much I played it through 2-3 times which I never normally do with a survival game.

[sek929]

The mechanics were top notch, but it wasn't a survival horror, it was a jump-out-and-say-boo game. The only time in the game I felt truly scared was during the battle with the un-killable Necromorph. You dismember him, he'd reattach and get right back to chasing you, you'd freeze him to slow him down and run like hell. That's the stuff I like.

Metro has plenty of times that a 'run-for-your-life' technique is downright necessary, and doesn't rely on enemies spawning behind you or jumping out of grates to scare, it uses it's atmosphere to instill dread and I think it worked wonders.

I guess I like the gritty realism, and you are totally right about Dead Space introducing a lot more interesting game mechanics than Metro, that's for sure. It was the locale of Dead Space and the lack of any character you cared about that drew me right out of the game. It was a fun game, but ultimately it felt like a game and not an experience. Doom 3 had the same space station feel, with no lights on, and mysteriously absent survivors of any kind, along with spawning enemies behind you (which I ****ing hate). I play carefully, and I like to kill everything and then move on. In Dead Space and Doom 3 you couldn't kill the enemies because they didn't exist yet, that's lazy level design IMO.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by sek929 

The mechanics were top notch, but it wasn't a survival horror, it was a jump-out-and-say-boo game. The only time in the game I felt truly scared was during the battle with the un-killable Necromorph.

I agree with you 100% on that one. I only got scared at the same spot. Despite that I found the environment, locations and enemies really damn creepy and it made the game for me.

But almost all survival games have those corny BOO moments.

The only 2 games I truly got scared playing was Condemned 1 and Silent hill 2 & 3.
I really can't handle RE as even though it is scary it is so frustrating which is really what makes it scary to begin with.

Anyway, I have HIGH HIGH hopes for Allen Wake. I'm hoping they nailed it.