[skarim]

I've had a powerbook for over a year now.

I went to the local Apple store to try out tiger briefly.

To be honest, i wasn't personally overwhelmed by the changes. Dashboard looks good, but won't change how I work. Spotlight is very nice as well, clearly the most important new feature in my opinion . I don't have too much use for automator at this point. Safari renders faster, but RSS i don't care for much at this point. QT 7 is already available for 10.3.9. I won't be doing super video conferencing on ichat.

I realize that there are things like core audio, core video, QE2, etc, but it doesn't seem the end user notices too much yet.

I'm even hesitating to get the educational price at $70 + tax. 10.3.9 i think will do the job for a while.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by skarim

I realize that there are things like core audio, core video, QE2, etc

Q2DX is not turned on in Tiger.

[Randman]

While the new stuff is nice, I think it's the understated things in Tiger that are nice, how well everything works with one another, how snappier the system is, how it's become easier to do things while also increasing the complexity for those that want that.
Tiger in a store demo is going to hit the highlights but you're missing out on a lot, especially if you can get an edu version.

[Maflynn]

Count me in as one that has been somewhat underwhelmed.
While I read the Ars Technica review and that helped quite a bit at my understanding what was changed and why it was affected. The changes that Apple put forth in this release are mostly felt under the skin.

Mike

[Weyland-Yutani]

OS X has never overwhelmed me.

cheers

W-Y

[analogika]

Actually, from playing around with it at a store, you're only getting the 20% that stand out at first glance.

The real joy of Tiger is in the 80% that you only notice over the course of time. (and quite a bit of that is along the lines of "hey - wait a minute. Didn't that used to take *ages*?")

[Appleman]

I AM overwhelmed. You won't notice it at first (maybe?) but it hets better and better during the days. 20 mins at a store will not get you overwhelmed maybe, but as others said, it's not the hood itself: it's all about under the hood.

[C.J. Moof]

Originally Posted by analogika

(and quite a bit of that is along the lines of "hey - wait a minute. Didn't that used to take *ages*?")

But then, there's the "hey- wait a minute. Didn't that used to *work*?" moments, as when yesterday, when my wife wanted to use my computer instead of her geriatric iBook for Illustrator work, but couldn't stand my desktop setup, ect.

"OK, I'll just whip you up an account, and you can have everything to your taste." Except that I couldn't log into the account once it was made. See http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=256526

I give Tiger credit for making my Cube feel snappier than it was, but I'm not viewing it as a must have upgrade, as Panther was.

[tooki]

It's a gazillion little visible things that are so small they fly under the radar, plus a TON of massive under-the-hood improvements that are of no use to end users, but improve performance, will lead to improved stability, and will enable better apps to be developed in the future.

tooki

[typoon]

Originally Posted by Appleman

I AM overwhelmed. You won't notice it at first (maybe?) but it hets better and better during the days. 20 mins at a store will not get you overwhelmed maybe, but as others said, it's not the hood itself: it's all about under the hood.

Agreed, some of the refinements are what I really like. Just some minor things like now if you have the password on with the screensaver you can switch users from there, also when you log out the buttons are in the right place. Also the speed is great. Booting is much much faster now. I also like the new Apple Mail.app.

As for Dashboard. I didn't think I would use it as much but I use it quite a bit. The calculator especially is great. you don't have to fire up the one in the apps folder. Just launch Dashboard. Also many of the widgets that have come out are great too and really add to it's usefulness.

10.3.9 was good. 10.4.1 is better. IMO.

[euphras]

OS X has never overwhelmed me.

Well, then stay with your buggy OS 7


Tiger has overwhelmed me (admitted: i upgraded from 10.1.5, Overwhelming factor might be a little smaller when you upgrade from Panther). To summarize: Job well done, Apple

[Appleman]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

OS X has never overwhelmed me.

Any reason / argument why not?

[subego]

Is it supposed to be overwhelming?

The last 5 or 6 years of Mac history have had 2 mindblowingly overwhelming OS updates: OS 9 to OS X and 10.1 to 10.2. This kind of thing isn't going to happen again anytime soon.

It is, after all, just the OS. It's not going to be doing so much different from 10.3 or 10.2. As others have said, it will do it faster and with more refinements, but the thing isn't so legacy (OS 9) or so broken (10.1) that we're really going to have our socks knocked off.

That being said, I have 3 copies already, and like it.

[leperkuhn]

I got pretty overwhelmed last night when i read this

http://cocoadevcentral.com/articles/000085.php

I've written in around 15 languages, and I know what I like from each one. From VB, i liked how it could easily connect to databases you could have a working program in a few hours. Finally cocoa has the power of drag and drop apps with data storage. I can't even begin to tell you how frustrating it was to compare the 2 languages and find major advantages in VB.

Two years have passed since i've written in cocoa. I've been focusing on the web, mostly because PHP is so great at doing database work. Now I'm looking to get back into desktop application programming because of this.

Tiger is the greatest OS upgrade I have seen. It will allow developers to do all sorts of awesome stuff both quickly and with less bugs. You will not see the huge benefit in the interface, it's mostly unchanged. (dashboard, automator and the new Mail rock) But we should see a huge number of tiger specific applications that will kick a ton of ass.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Appleman

Any reason / argument why not?

No upgrade - major or minor - has been such an incredible leap from the one before that it is overwhelming.

cheers

W-Y

[Appleman]

Originally Posted by subego

That being said, I have 3 copies already, and like it.

Hm, did you buy Tiger three (3) times because you liked it so much?
You should have looked at the Family Pack for only US$ 199 instead!

[Appleman]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

No upgrade - major or minor - has been such an incredible leap from the one before that it is overwhelming.

Well, going from OS 9 to OS X 10.4.1 IS quite an overwhelming step, let alone going from Mac OS 6 to OS X 10.4.1...

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by euphras

Well, then stay with your buggy OS 7

System 7

cheers

W-Y

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Appleman

Well, going from OS 9 to OS X 10.4.1 IS quite an overwhelming step, let alone going from Mac OS 6 to OS X 10.4.1...

Oh then I can understand.

I went from 9.2 to 10.0 to 10.1 to 10.2 etc. to 10.4 and that is in no way an overwhelming experience.
Going directly from 9.2 to 10.4 would be a shocker!

cheers

W-Y

[wataru]

I've had big performance problems with Tiger, so I'm pretty underwhelmed.

[Appleman]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

System 7

cheers

W-Y

It's prpbably true that Word Perfect 3.5 runs at fast in System 7 as MS Word 2004 in OS X, or even faster, but the possibilities have become huger, and multitasking wasn't that great in the System 7 years...

[Appleman]

Originally Posted by wataru

I've had big performance problems with Tiger, so I'm pretty underwhelmed.

How did you install Tiger?

[subego]

Originally Posted by Appleman

Hm, did you buy Tiger three (3) times because you liked it so much?
You should have looked at the Family Pack for only US$ 199 instead!

I use them for business too, so 2 out of the 3 don't qualify.

The third is my GF's laptop, which if I understand Apple's EULA properly doesn't qualify either, unless she never wants to take it outside the "home" for which the Family Pack is valid.

I certainly do like Apple enough to think they deserve the $130 for each of my computers every so often. I don't mind paying it.

Now the fact Apple wants me to buy 2 copies of their pro apps so I can stash a copy on my laptop, they can fsck off on that one.

Come get me Software Piracy Association, I dare you!

[wataru]

Originally Posted by Appleman

How did you install Tiger?

Clean install, then moved the contents of my home folder over from an external drive.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Appleman

It's prpbably true that Word Perfect 3.5 runs at fast in System 7 as MS Word 2004 in OS X, or even faster, but the possibilities have become huger, and multitasking wasn't that great in the System 7 years...

Uuuum I was just correcting him.

Back in the day an OS called System 7 existed. Nothing called OS 7 has ever exisited.

cheers

W-Y

[:dragonflypro:]

i am not sure about overwhelmed…

…but Spotlight has saved my bacon 3 times in the last week and Automator simplest of functions have probably saved me 3 or 4 hours menial work in the same time frame.

These to instances alone have justified the cost of the OS.

Let's just say having to go back would leave me with an uncomfortableness.

T

[osxisfun]

all i know is that i showed my latest work for my client last tues and in passing used:

expose
spotlight to find old email
slideshow from finder (wow)
open file from spotlight

on my powerbook.

they drooled....

[mAxximo]

Originally Posted by subego

The last 5 or 6 years of Mac history have had 2 mindblowingly overwhelming OS updates: OS 9 to OS X and 10.1 to 10.2.

Can't disagree more.
I think the platform switch from the Mac (System 9) to OS X was the most underwhelming experience I have had in my whole life. I hadn't been so miserably let down by a software product since I first picked the Mac in 1986. Mindblowingly, yes. Overwhelming: anything but.

Even when Tiger has barely limped out the door with all of its bugs, omissions and stupid mistakes, I think it's making OS X feel better in some areas and it's a worthy upgrade if you get it free with a new machine or something. $129 worthy? Definitely not. Overwhelming? Neither.

What I think it can't be ignored anymore is the huge QA problem Apple have been having for quite some time now and of which Tiger is the poster child. Even on the Apple boards people are raging about this issue. Apple mods must be really busy these days deleting all those threads...LOL.

[subego]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

Can't disagree more.
I think the platform switch from the Mac (System 9) to OS X was the most underwhelming experience I have had in my whole life. I hadn't been so miserably let down by a software product since I first picked the Mac in 1986. Mindblowingly, yes. Overwhelming: anything but.

Well, you certainly weren't alone in you opinion, especially back in those days.

I was lucky enough to have it running on an extra computer, so I didn't have to worry about it wrecking anything important. Freed of that, I could get all mushy over the potential, which wasn't realized until 10.2. Incidentally, 10.2 was when I finally trusted it enough to not wreck important things, like my work.

Originally Posted by mAxximo

Even when Tiger has barely limped out the door with all of its bugs, omissions and stupid mistakes, I think it's making OS X feel better in some areas and it's a worthy upgrade if you get it free with a new machine or something. $129 worthy? Definitely not. Overwhelming? Neither.

Though we differ on wether it's worth the $129, I completely see where you're coming from. 10.3.9 is a damn fine OS. I'm going to put it on my father's (now running 10.2.whatever) computer because I know it's really really stable, and he doesn't need to mess around with all the new broken stuff.

As was stated above however, I'm willing to pay for the privilege.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Uuuum I was just correcting him.

Back in the day an OS called System 7 existed. Nothing called OS 7 has ever exisited.

Actually, it was during version 7 that it switched from "System" to "Mac OS": the last of the former was System 7.5.5, then it went to Mac OS 7.6.

tooki

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by tooki

Actually, it was during version 7 that it switched from "System" to "Mac OS": the last of the former was System 7.5.5, then it went to Mac OS 7.6.

tooki

Yeah Mac OS 7.6 did exist. Mac OS 7 never did exist.

cheers

W-Y

[Ron Goodman]

Tiger has been well worth it. I couldn't care less about Dashboard, Spotlight is OK, but the under-the-hood improvements are very interesting and exciting. My favorite update was still the one from OS 9 to OS X Public Beta. Even though the beta had missing functionality, it was the future, and I never used OS 9 again unless I was forced to. I think it was removed from my computers entirely by 10.1.

[CaptainHaddock]

As people have pointed out here, it's often little things that make the difference, as well as the changes under the hood. Before I upgraded, I expected:

1. Not to use Dashboard.
2. To get a speed boost.
3. Not to use Spotlight much, except for smart folders.
4. Not to use Automator much.
5. Not to like Mail 2.0.

After I upgraded, my experience was different than expected.

1. I use several Dashboard widgets constantly.
2. I couldn't live without the pop-up dictionary (I write for a living).
3. Spotlight has found lost files several times.
4. I've made some useful Automator workflows and plan to make more.
5. In spite of the goofy toolbar buttons, Mail 2.0 is a very good program.
6. Quartz Composer is one of the neatest things ever.

Most of my positive expectations, like the speed boost and smart folders, also were fulfilled.

Now there are a few bugs, and if you want to wait for 10.4.2 or 10.4.3, that's understandable. However, your impressions after using Tiger will probably be different than what they are now.

[sknapp351]

I was wondering if there is a difference in the retail version of 10.4 and the educational version of 10.4? I was told by an Apple store manger that there was no difference other than the packaging. And I didn't even notice a difference in that..
Just wondering.
Sam

[analogika]

no difference.

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by skarim

I've had a powerbook for over a year now.

I went to the local Apple store to try out tiger briefly.

To be honest, i wasn't personally overwhelmed by the changes. Dashboard looks good, but won't change how I work. Spotlight is very nice as well, clearly the most important new feature in my opinion . I don't have too much use for automator at this point. Safari renders faster, but RSS i don't care for much at this point. QT 7 is already available for 10.3.9. I won't be doing super video conferencing on ichat.

I realize that there are things like core audio, core video, QE2, etc, but it doesn't seem the end user notices too much yet.

I'm even hesitating to get the educational price at $70 + tax. 10.3.9 i think will do the job for a while.

I'll use it, but I don't think it's worth paying for (Arrr). Plus, I was really dissapointed with the 'ripple effect' hyped up by all the fanboys on here. I was expecting massive ripples, not just some tiny effect.

- Rob

[AuPhalanx]

Hi, all!

Tiger is a worthy upgrade, of that there is no doubt. The technology is superb and the new tools, such as Spotlight and the dictionary, are fabulous. While not as "in your face" like exposé was, these tools are quickly changing how I use my computer and make using other OSes particularly frustrating.

That being said, I think that Apple could have polished Tiger just a bit before releasing it. While Spotlight IS tremendous, there is something about it--something that I cannot put my finger on--that makes it seem unfinished, almost like a work in progress. Whereas Exposé was perfect and was very "Apple-like", Spotlight isn't quite there yet. The same goes for Dashboard. I use it and like it, but it seems almost like it was bolted onto the OS. Add to the fact that there is no elegant way to delete unwanted widgets (not to mention the way the widgets are installed) and it seems like it was rushed out the door.

Still, I could not return to Panther, or any other OS. Tiger is sweet in so many ways. I am looking forward to seeing how Apple really gives Tiger a shine as they improve it with their point upgrades. I am highly confident that it will get better and will continue to wow Mac users and non-Mac users alike.

Have fun... Tony.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

I'll use it, but I don't think it's worth paying for (Arrr). Plus, I was really dissapointed with the 'ripple effect' hyped up by all the fanboys on here. I was expecting massive ripples, not just some tiny effect.

Huh?

Those ripples are far more massive than they need to be.

The "fanboys" here were outnumbered by the "fanboys" saying it was gratuitous, overdone, too much, and annoying.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by analogika

The "fanboys" here were outnumbered by the "fanboys" saying it was gratuitous, overdone, too much, and annoying.

You are an Apple apologist.

The ripple effect is the result of extensive user testing by Apple. It is important that the user understands that the Dashboard floats above the regular application layer. The ripple – making the Dashboard widgets look like being dropped into water – makes it intuitively obvious to the user that these widgets are floating.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

You are an Apple apologist.

The ripple effect is the result of extensive user testing by Apple. It is important that the user understands that the Dashboard floats above the regular application layer. The ripple – making the Dashboard widgets look like being dropped into water – makes it intuitively obvious to the user that these widgets are floating.

1. You accuse him of being an Apple apologist and then proceed to...defend Apple?

2. I would say the darkening of the background achieves the "floating over the applications" effect much better than the ripple, which effects other Dashboard widgets as well as the applications over which they are "floating."

[mAxximo]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The ripple effect is the result of extensive user testing by Apple.

That's a good one...

The two or three times that I used Dashboard (that is before I realized how much memory it was using to basically suck at everything I was trying to do with it) I thought the ripple was cute but there's no doubt in my mind that it's there just because “they can” and nothing else.

User testing? If they'd do that at Apple I'm pretty sure we would not have i.e. those retarded Labels in OS X right now...

[analogika]

I like the labels a lot better than they were implemented in OS 9.

List view, small icons, and 46 custom folders, and you were supposed to tell them apart by the slight shading applied to the 16x16 custom icons.

Okay, I don't care what you want to call it, but "usable" it most certainly was not.

[mAxximo]

How do you feel when you drag one of those folders to the Dock and you lose whatever Label you had put to it?

[CaptainHaddock]

And here I wish I could see the ripple effect just by moving or tapping widgets. It takes no CPU, after all.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

How do you feel when you drag one of those folders to the Dock and you lose whatever Label you had put to it?

Utterly devastated.

That is, until I noticed that you didn't mean "lose"; you only meant that the label doesn't show up on the Dock. The folder itself retains the label just fine. Phew.

It'd be nice to have some indication of labelled status on the Dock. Though it's nowhere near as important as being able to clearly distinguish in the environment where actual file manipulation takes place - the Finder.

-s*

[Simon]

IMHO labels suck. Never used them myself; not under OS 9, not under OS X. Instead, I add a spotlight comment, use smart folders, whatever. As far as I'm concerned, Apple could drop them altogether.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by analogika

Utterly devastated.

That is, until I noticed that you didn't mean "lose"; you only meant that the label doesn't show up on the Dock. The folder itself retains the label just fine. Phew.

It'd be nice to have some indication of labelled status on the Dock. Though it's nowhere near as important as being able to clearly distinguish in the environment where actual file manipulation takes place - the Finder.

-s*

You're not a big fan of interface consistency I take it..

cheers

W-Y

[wataru]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

You're not a big fan of interface consistency I take it..

You're a big fan of unnecessarily cryptic hit-and-run comments I take it.

Oh, and also of pointless taglines like

cheers

W-Y

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by wataru

You're a big fan of unnecessarily cryptic hit-and-run comments I take it.

Oh, and also of pointless taglines like

.. did you mean to write something more or did your mind just fall blank there?

cheers

W-Y

[Apple Pro Underwear]

i bought a dual g5 and tiger came with it... works great but i'm not overwhelmed. more happy with my new hardware though.