[neutrino23]

I am considering to get a new portable in the next couple of months. The current iBook is too heavy for me. I was thinking that I could remove some parts it might be light enough to consider carrying around. The target is three pounds.

Removing the CD drive will save maybe 14 ounces? If I need a CD for software I can network to another Mac. I can use a FW HD for emergency booting. The optical drive is just dead weight.

How about removing the internal speakers? Maybe another three ounces? I can use headphones for sound out of better quality.

Is the HD heavier than average? Perhaps that could be swapped for a lighter, faster, higher capacity version? Maybe removing the extra padding and changing the HD would save another four ounces?

So far I'm guessing that almost a pound and a half can be removed. This gets it down to about 3.5 pounds. This is a promising start.

Any other suggestions?

[amphibious]

Don't mean to flame... but how on earth is 5lbs too heavy?

[neutrino23]

I live and work in Japan. Here we don't drive much we mostly use trains, buses and such and there is a lot of walking between them and your home or office. I have a relatively short commute, 45 minutes door to door, of which 20 minutes is walking, some of that up a steep hill. Plus I'm standing on the train. So that's an hour and a half a day minimum on my feet with my Powerbook hanging from my shoulder. On top of that the recent weather here is high 90s for temp and humidity. I absolutely want the lightest laptop I can get.

By way of comparison, there is a wide variety of subnotebooks available here on the wintel side that are under 3 pounds. My recent favorite is the Toshiba Libretto - 2.4 pounds (less than half the weight of an iBook), FW, USB, video out, microphone, PC card, headphone jack, modem, 1280 x 600 LCD display, outside dimensions smaller than an iBook, 18mm pitch keyboard. This would be great if it was made by Apple. Before last MW Tokyo in February hopes were running high that we would get something like this and there was similar disappointment afterwards. Since the release of the very successful iBook it is clear that Apple will not give us this product soon.

I have to reiterate that this is not intended to be my only computer. This is a peripheral for a G4 tower. That is why I can get by with such limited capabilities.

So now I'm motivated in two directions. One is to figure out how to strip down an iBook to the minimum weight. The other is to figure out if it is reasonable to run OS 9 on the Libretto via some kind of emulator (but that belongs in another forum).

[Mac Guru]

Get a VAIO and shut up! Seriosly, removing the Optical drive is not only retarded... you have a GAPING HOLE in the side of the iBook! I'm sorry, your story about having to be on your feet all day holds no water with me... I go to school in the hill country of South Texas... I have to park at the perimiter of Campus and have to spend ALL day walking from class to class. I spend about 6 hours a day carying my iBook aound with me and it IS not to heavy at all. You want light, no CD drive, etc... GET A VAIO.

Mac Guru

[Mac Guru]

Get a VAIO and shut up! Seriosly, removing the Optical drive is not only retarded... you have a GAPING HOLE in the side of the iBook! I'm sorry, your story about having to be on your feet all day holds no water with me... I go to school in the hill country of South Texas... I have to park at the perimiter of Campus and have to spend ALL day walking from class to class. I spend about 6 hours a day carying my iBook aound with me and it IS not to heavy at all. You want light, no CD drive, etc... GET A VAIO.

Mac Guru

[bluedog]

Your investigation for a viable emulator is not good in the portable market. The only emulators I've seen capable of doing PPC emulation (OS9 included) is a hardware card installed in a desktop machine.

I've never seen a PPC emulator that was software only, and the performance would suffer. If you really can't stand the weight of your laptop, and are willing to sacrifice functionality for something like that, I think you could sacrifice the MacOS.

What's your reason for staying with an Apple product? Its excessive to shave a few ounces here or there on a decent product and risk damage (by taking out insulation and protective covers (what would be left if you took out your CD drive).

Although I wouldn't put such an agressive tone as the previous poster, it would make better sense to just get by with the PC if you really can't stand the extra weight. I'd be happy just to get an iBook! Right now I just wanted the desktop machine and gave up the portability fo r the flexibility and speed.

[FAerrorTAL]

ok, i understand your problem, you want a mac sub notebook, and the idea of using an ibook to do so is a good one. I'm sure you could hack around and cover up the cd tray area somehow, so cosmetically it's still a beauty.

I wouldn't recommend removing the hd padding, or you'd run the chance of losing your hd entirely in a bump or something.

I think that your current solution may be the best there is, no optical, no speakers maybe, maybe replace the hd (i dunno about this)

aside from this stuff, the case and screen are the only other things left!!

good luck, hope 4 pounds is good

aaron

[FAerrorTAL]

better idea!

take out the battery!!!

seriously, if you're walking, you aren't using the ibook

have a battery at work and one at home, maybe extra ac adapters!!
that ought to save REAL weight.

good luck

aaron

[pi]

FAerrorTAL's right, drop the battery.

the 10 GB HD is only one platter as far as I know. rather than two for the 20 GB. Keep the CD drive. Keep the speakers.

The iBook is rugged, you can save weight in the bag you carry it in. Just get a laptop sleeve.

Get orthepoedic shoes.

Wear a backpack with a waist strap.

Get a libretto, or a picturebook, or just carry a FW HD.

[neutrino23]

Thanks for all the suggestions and spirited discussion.

I still think the optical drive is superfluous. We have multiple macs at the office and multiple macs at home all with optical drives and all networked. Just for making short excursions the optical drive is not necessary. I hadn't thought about the blank space. It would be necessary to make a piece to fill that in.

The battery suggestion doesn't work. I want to read on the train (while standing and holding the computer in one hand) and I may want to look up something or take notes at a customer site. I actually appreciate the long battery life because it obviates the need for carrying the charger.

First I'll get an 867MHz G4 for my office (and maybe an older, second hand G4 for home) then I'll tackle the laptop problem. This should take a month or so. I'll post another message with the result.

One other idea is to contact the powerbook groups here in Japan. They are heavily into modification. Some of them make replicas of the outer shell in order to achieve different looks or to use different materials.

If you put your ibook in a backpack or book bag, i can't imagine you'd even notice it was there. Seriously, it's only 5 pounds.

[zac4mac]

Neutrino-

You're in a great place to look for lighter, different plastics to put the iBook in.
I hear there's a few square blocks in Tokyo that specialize in that sort of thing.
Sounds like in your case, the optical drive is indeed superfluous. Dump it and cover the hole.
Maybe you could get or build a "half-cell" battery for your commute. Smaller cells, same voltage, shorter life, less weight.
For trips to customer sites, use the regular battery.

You probably won't save enough weight by messing with the HD to be useful. Maybe adapt an IBM microdrive.
Speakers probably weigh more than the HD, take 'em out if you don't need them.

Z

[Matsu]

neutrino, your being a dick. How do you expect to stand and hold any laptop in your hand so you can read a book when on the train? You can't even hold up 5 pounds@!@! Here's a suggestion. Go to the gym and lift some weights! Geesh. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks a sub 5 pound laptop is too heavy needs to exercise more. Is this a Japanese obsession or what? I get Japanese students here all the time, and everything is 'too big, too heavy' (mostly the girls complain) textbooks, cell phones, backpacks... They want an office that fits in a purse! Yuck. I know it's cramped over there but can't you guys annex a piece of Korea, southeast asia, or China? Wait, sorry, that didn't go too well for you last time round. You could always buy up pieces of Canada, but you'd better hurry, the americans are getting all the best deals.

[lenz]

damn!!let the guy live....if he wants to lose weight, lets help out....

You could also remove the outside case for screen. This might not be a good idea but will lose you a little weight. The metal heat sink under the keyboard is another thing you might want to consider removing. Battery is definetly the best thing you could do. It weights alteast a pound. Last question is, why are we talking in pounds? isn't japan metric?

[Dogma]

Get a Palm or Pocket PC. You can read all your stuff from them and can attach a keyboard to take quicker notes if you don't like the Graffitti software.
If you don't need to use the extra capabilities of the iBook, don't buy one, if you do, then you can obviously afford to buy me one too, and all my friends, and everyone on this forum. This is a case of "I want one but it doesn't do what I want it to do" syndrome. If you want a subnotebook, buy a subnotebook, if you want an iBook, buy an iBook (customise it sure, but why take stuff out when you've already paid for it anyway).

iBook is a desktop in a portable - for people on the move who want an inexpensive computer. If you want a computer peripheral, buy one.

[Dogma]

or get an old Duo.

[itomato]

Do you really need to tote the iBook around? If you have computers at both locations you will be, can you get by with a Newton and a CD burner? If you need to tote data back and forth larger than a PDA will hold, a CD or similar inexpensive storage is the way to go. Just add a new session when you need. It weighs what, 2g? If that? Spend that iBook money on 2 burners, or get one of those USB SRAM disk thingies..

[Dogma]

Not sure if this helps but one of the new PDA-type mobile phones may look promising, lie the Nokia 9290 Communicator -


Full colour with e-mail, web, and MS Office editing. Pretty smart - now I wonder if they make a USB/Mac connection kit?

Or perhaps a Zip drive - one of the new USB powered ones means you would only need to carry the drive, no daft power supplies or anything.

[sine -''-..-]

get a newton!!

grr.... sombody shut me up ^_^

[seanyepez]

Newtons were definitely ahead of their time, but general slowness, weight issues, price, and compatibility kept them out of most consumers' hands.

I suggest you get a Sony VAIO R505 or SR notebook.

www.sonystyle.com

Sony is the Apple of the PC world. At least they don't copy our designs.

Hey, I just thought of something. Maybe you should hit the gym! Working out will definitely make carrying the iBook easier (since you will be carrying less body weight with more muscle mass). All the time you spend modifying your Mac could be spent at the gym. I mean this in all seriousness.

[ 07-25-2001: Message edited by: seanyepez ]

[- - e r i k - -]

OK, so this is totally lame allready....but I really couldn't resist.

[neutrino23]

Various responses:

Yes, it is metric here but I switched to pounds for the sake of the US crowd.

It is true, Japanese people really like small, lightweight electronics. I'm always amazed that the people in my office mostly want to work on small laptops with 10 inch screens. I offer to get them 17 inch crts but they decline saying that that takes too much space and feels too big. It is hard to explain but the cultural sense of personal space is different here. Each country has a different feeling about how big your personal space is and how private it is. In Japan it seems that you have a smaller "bubble" around you. When I use my Pismo on the train (if I get a seat) it feels awkward because it is so large that I am exceeding the size of my area.

People are really nuts here over PHS phones with imode (internet). To me they are unwieldy and expensive but people here love them. They attempt to do all sorts of things on those little 1.5 inch screens. Now they combine small digital cameras and mp3 players in these phones. They now come in a huge variety of finishes. Especially the phones designed for girls look like jewelry - pearl finish with gold trim and little sparly high lights for example.

At the local Yodobashi Camera in Kawasaki I can count probably 20 small handhelds with 10 inch screens or less weighing under one kilogram. To me they are unusably small. The Toshiba Libretto actually looks usable. I've tried typing on it and it feels OK.

Basically, I don't want to fiddle with yet another OS (Palm, CE, etc.). I mostly use Mac OS and for the times when I'm wandering around I'd like to keep using it. So the choice will either be to emulate Mac OS on another platform or try to strip down an iBook.

The old Duo's are still available here in the stores but they are as heavy as iBooks and getting batteries is problematic. I've heard the Sony's are not very reliable. Also, there are problems installing windows on them unless you get the Sony version.

Actually, it seems that the ultralights are coming to the US market slowly. The smallest ThinkPad is quite small and Compaq is now coming out with a three pound portable.

Regards to all.

[COmie JOe]

Powerbook 2400? japan is the best place to find these. they are a sub notebook

[Knof8]

I doubt this would be of much help for a suggestion, if things came down to mere differences in grams, you could pop the top and start getting rid of any unnecessary screws. Also there might be some unnecessary extra metal just under the keyboard where the airport card is normally held. My ibooks not with me and I hadn't thought of removing a chunk of it before so I'm not sure. It could work as I believe the keyboard does not lock down into this extra metal but rather into holes in the plastic. You'd have to take a better look to be really certain. Just an idea though.

[Apple_John]

1) Just take the LCD screen and cd-rom off! And use the A/V to mirror the screen to a TV goggle, it is a goggle with a screen inside it, made by olympus. It claims its ouput is the same as 52" TV. I once wear it and watch DVD and play PS, very impressive. Or even replace the HD w/ 2 IBM 1gb microdrive.
http://www.eye-trekker.com

2) put a strap on the ibook, just like people do it with a huge R/C plane control. And attach a few Helium ballons...

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: Apple_John ]

[neutrino23]

Actually, it looks like there is no clear solution except to put up with the weight of the iBook.

I've looked at the iBook some more and I doubt that I can save more than four or five ounces by taking out the CD drive. It looks really light.

On the other hand, the ultralight Toshiba Libretto I had my eye on doesn't look to sturdy. The two demo machines in the store are already failing. The clutch for the screen is getting loose and the tops are falling over backwards. Also, this only has one of those little pencil-eraser joysticks for cursor control, no trackpad. Really hard to use.

[iPaul UK]

Neutrino is most deffinetly, completely and utterly mad. So.. Now we aware of this.. I suggest Neutrino acquire a number of helium filled balloons.. And attatch these to his beloved, yet evidently over weight iBook. This should save a pound or two. And no need to worry about the image issue either.. Insane people have no problems in this department.

[Matsu]

I've always felt that those little rubber nubin pencil eraser thingies were easier to use than a track pad. But then again I'm a little ham fisted. Do you know if anyone makes a third party replacement keyboard for iBooks/powerBooks, that includes the pencil eraser device? I'd buy one.

[Steve]

::cough, cough::

Matsu - Are you crazy? I HATE those little nubbie things. I had to use one on my friends laptop and you can't get around on the computer at all!

Sorry for the "flame".

[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: speramint0 ]

[zac4mac]

I agree with speramint. "J-mouse" is the most annoying pointer I've ever used.
I think Toshiba came out with that thing in the late 80's...

I like Apple John's idea about the goggles. Just use one eye.
Maybe soon somebody will make a monocular flip down version...
Get a plastics house to make a new lid and remove the display.
Now that would be a unique iBook.

Z

[neutrino23]

Originally posted by Matsu:
<STRONG>I've always felt that those little rubber nubin pencil eraser thingies were easier to use than a track pad. But then again I'm a little ham fisted. Do you know if anyone makes a third party replacement keyboard for iBooks/powerBooks, that includes the pencil eraser device? I'd buy one.</STRONG>

There are companies here that make keyboards for Macs but I've never seen them with the little nibs in them.

----

The single flip down display is a little eerie. Doesn't that remind you of Picard when he was assimillated by the Borg?

[FAerrorTAL]

I think the personal space in japan idea is due to the huge lack of land in general. Land is expensive, having any property (without farming it) is crazy. This carries over to personal space. In the large cities it's insanely crowded, of course people want small things.

I have a sony minidisc player/recorder, awesome audio device, kicks mp3 players arses, i hear that in japan they are popular, maybe even used in pcs? it'd be cool to have a laptop with that as the optical drive.... lighter too

yeah I think a headset would be great! maybe having one screen is odd (your eyes would strain and fight) But I think we're getting to a solution
aaron

[Bluebomber21XX]

Actually, there's an easier way to do it, without modifying anything.

Get a backpack that fits snugly around your back, and comes with a waist strap (like small hiking backpacks). Since the iBooks aren't very thick, the backpack won't bulge. When it comes to weight, this is also easily fixed.

Hike the backpack up really high on your shoulders, and use the waist straps. You'll barely notice the weight. Trust me, I know, I have a PB Pismo, and it's even heavier. So =P

[Herr Newton]

Neutrino -

Heed the advice of those suggesting bags, specifically backpacks. I've got a LowePro camera backpack which carries more equipment than my my shoulder bag but feels at least half as light when loaded. Better living through weight distribution!

Side note: Shame on those of you who are flaming him. This forum is about customizing the hardware of your Mac in new and different ways to improve your experience. Note the use of 'you' and its possesive form 'your'. Neutrino knows what he wants, and it's completely childish and inane behavior for you to attack him.

[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: Herr Newton ]

[Bluebomber21XX]

Originally posted by Herr Newton:
<STRONG>Neutrino -

Heed the advice of those suggesting bags, specifically backpacks. I've got a LowePro camera backpack which carries more equipment than my my shoulder bag but feels at least half as light when loaded. Better living through weight distribution!

Side note: Shame on those of you who are flaming him. This forum is about customizing the hardware of your Mac in new and different ways to improve your experience. Note the use of 'you' and its possesive form 'your'. Neutrino knows what he wants, and it's completely childish and inane behavior for you to attack him.

[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: Herr Newton ]</STRONG>

Right on, Herr.

Don't criticize people for thinking different. =/

Like you have already seemed to figure out, you aren't going to save much weigh at all removing things from the ibook. Definitely not even close to 1.5 pounds. The CD-ROM weighs about 3-4 ounces, the speakers less than .5 oz. each (they're tiny!), and the hard drive is already within a couple grams of the lightest ones available.

Either put up with the weight, or don't use the iBook. For those suggesting Duos or 2400s, both are about the same weight and size as the new iBooks.

[pjkim]

I just went to the Apple store in Plano, TX. I played with the iBook and the G4PB. I was shocked to find out just how heavy the iBook was. I know I read the specs about 5 lb, but the iBook just *FEELS* heavy! In fact, it felt heavier than the G4PB.

After seeing so many pictures of the new iBook with its translucent, plastic case and hearing that it ONLY weighs 5 pounds, I thought that it would be feather light. I was shocked when I actually picked one up and it felt HEAVY. 5 lb heavy, but heavy none the less.

What was weird was that when I picked up the G4PB, it felt subjectively lighter. Maybe because it is bigger and has a metal casing, I expected it to be heavier. I was surprised that it felt lighter than I expected.

Your mind can play weird tricks on you. Also, YMMV.

[Milo Waye]

Originally posted by neutrino23:
<STRONG>

So far I'm guessing that almost a pound and a half can be removed. This gets it down to about 3.5 pounds. This is a promising start.

Any other suggestions?</STRONG>

Neutrino,
Sorry, first I thought you were joking. I was ready to join the fun and suggest removing the display, it's probably worth close to a pound . Then it dawned you're serious. Really, I don't think the weight can get much better than the iBook if you want FW, USB, modem etc. The PB 2400, comparably equipped with FW, USB & modem cards, dongles and floppy drive would weigh out the same or more than the new iBook. I read the Toshiba Libretto battery life sucked.

I suggest you walk faster. In a couple weeks you'll have lost a few pounds and that will offset the weight of the iBook.

Originally posted by &lt;Burger&gt;:
<STRONG>I suggest you walk faster. In a couple weeks you'll have lost a few pounds and that will offset the weight of the iBook.</STRONG>

LOL. I like this suggestion. The only real problem is that it would be nice to be able to read things while standing on the train. The iBook weighs a little more than a half gallon of water. Imagine holding that in one hand for twenty minutes.

All things considered, and having looked more closely at the subnotes in Japan, I think I will go with the iBook and make do. It is one thing to compare specs on paper but when you look at the real products and see how reliable they appear I think the iBook is the best bet. As the say in Japan - shou ga nai kara gambarimasu.